Apple's Phil Schiller explains lack of NFC and inductive charging in iPhone 5

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  • Reply 21 of 105
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,162member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by logandigges View Post


    I told you there would be no NFC!





    Who the heck cares about NFC besides tech-heads and fandroids?  In all my travels, I have yet to come across anything that would use it?  I see no merchants, stores, vending machines, etc. that has it.



    Oh wait, it's only a huge deal to those that simply want it for the sake of having it and having "bragging rights".  Jeez.. when there's stuff out there that uses it, then Apple will look into it.

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  • Reply 22 of 105


    I use two Powermat inductive charging cases and chargers (ip4 & ip4S).  They are NOT slower than USB when charging.  The Powermat can charge from below to 20% remaining to full charge in less than an hour and while there small inefficiencies as compared to corded charging, the Powermat is not your typical inductive charger as it uses high frequency inductive coupling and automatic shutoff when the battery is fully charged.  As the iPhone battery slowly discharges the charger will wake up and top off the battery.  I find the ease of dropping the iphone into the charging cradle far outweighs any disadvantages.  The Powermat technology is now endorsed by 125 companies that have formed a new consortium.  GM has bought into the technology as well and will be offering inductive charging areas in many GM cars staring with the new 2013 models now hitting the showrooms.  This same consortium is building out charging areas in airports around the US.  Of course this is all still in its infancy, but as a user for over 2 years, I can say that it works, works well and is super convenient.

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  • Reply 23 of 105


    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

    Who the heck cares about NFC besides tech-heads and fandroids?


     


    I care about it in the sense that it has the potential to completely redefine the very concept of 'purchasing' if done correctly.


     


    I'd rather Apple not do it at all until they CAN do it correctly.

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  • Reply 24 of 105
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    seankill wrote: »
    May have alrdy been said. But you are right.
    I know it's slower and as an engineerig student, I know that everytime energy changes form, you lose energy.
    I would bet it takes a least 3 times the power to charge a phone wirelessly.

    Close, but not quite. The best consumer electronics devices with inductive charging are about 50-60% efficient.

    I did a calculation when this came up a few months ago. If all iPhones went to inductive charging, we would require at least one more GW scale power plant just to make up for the losses. Given the cost of doing so and the extra pollution, there's absolutely no justification for it.
    mistergsf wrote: »
    Re: Inductive charging
    I don't see how another gadget plugged into the wall that charges much slower can be "convenient". If there is an advantage that I'm ignorant about, maybe I would change my mind.

    Of course there's an advantage - buzzword compliance. For most of the geeks asking for this, they won't be happy until they can carry around a mobile phone that has a 10" screen and 8,000 other features no one else will use.

    As for the rest, I don't see the convenience factor as being significant. It takes perhaps half a second to plug my iPhone in - and even less if I use an iPhone charging dock. It takes me many times that amountin order to get my Wii controllers aligned with the inductive charging station.

    Plus, of course, it's simply added bulk - you need to add a receiver and extra circuitry on the phone.
    sandman619 wrote: »
    While I'm positive on inductive charging, I realized that it's not that convenient afterall. I often use my iPhone while it's recharging. So it's really a hassle to use while it's charging. Plus I still have to keep extra cables

    There's that, too.
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  • Reply 25 of 105

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    I care about it in the sense that it has the potential to completely redefine the very concept of 'purchasing' if done correctly.


     


    I'd rather Apple not do it at all until they CAN do it correctly.



    Right, but the problem is, when Apple does do it and the technology is much more mainstream...Apple will probably be 2-3 years behind everyone else. However, despite being 2-3 years behind, it will be determined that Apple invented NFC along with the rounded rectangle. At that point, NFC will no longer be cool to Android fanatics who now use hockey puck shaped phones to avoid the rounded rectangle trade dress issue. Apple never made one of...oh...um...back to the drawing board...

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  • Reply 26 of 105


    Originally Posted by carmelapple View Post

    Right, but the problem is, when Apple does do it and the technology is much more mainstream...Apple will probably be 2-3 years behind everyone else.


     


    You don't understand: the technology won't exist in any meaningful capacity until Apple does it right. At least in this scenario. I use "Apple" even though I don't believe in them anymore because there's no one else in the industry shown to be capable of doing it right.


     


    All previous attempts at this will be considered useless once the proper implementation is set forth.

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  • Reply 27 of 105
    There's no NFC because two reasons:
    1. Apple was not able to source a baseband part with integrated NFC as the time of the design. Broadcom now offers one, but it's very new.
    2. Whatever Apple is working on with NFC almost certainly includes Authentec biometrics for PIN. Obviously, it's not ready.

    People who don't realize why NFC is great just don't understand it. It's hard to understand why NFC is so important, especially if you are living in America and have no idea what a smartcard is.

    But, NFC is hugely important. Do you like what's happening it the credit card processing space? Banks are charging annual fees to deal with fraud, and vendors are more commonly loading the 3% transaction fee to the customer (you). If you spend $20K a year on your card, you will have donated $600 to FirstData. Incidentally, that's more than enough to by a second Android Phone with NFC.
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  • Reply 28 of 105
    NFC is obviously not ready for Apple yet but it is inevitable it will come as a form of being able to use your iPhone to pay for products, wifi location or GPS will not be accurate enough, I guess it's a case of waiting and another reason to upgrade next year or quite possibly the year after.
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  • Reply 29 of 105
    ajmasajmas Posts: 604member
    I haven't seen a good NFC solution yet, other than curiosities. It may come into its own, but some things probably need to be ready before that happens. The same thing can probably be said for wireless charging.

    Are there any USB compatible wireless charging mats out there yet?
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  • Reply 30 of 105

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post



    There's no NFC because two reasons:

    1. Apple was not able to source a baseband part with integrated NFC as the time of the design. Broadcom now offers one, but it's very new.

    2. Whatever Apple is working on with NFC almost certainly includes Authentec biometrics for PIN. Obviously, it's not ready.

    People who don't realize why NFC is great just don't understand it. It's hard to understand why NFC is so important, especially if you are living in America and have no idea what a smartcard is.

    But, NFC is hugely important. Do you like what's happening it the credit card processing space? Banks are charging annual fees to deal with fraud, and vendors are more commonly loading the 3% transaction fee to the customer (you). If you spend $20K a year on your card, you will have donated $600 to FirstData. Incidentally, that's more than enough to by a second Android Phone with NFC.




    NFC is stupid.  Really stupid.


     


    In America, banks eat fraud.  As I understand it, in smartcard countries card users have to pay for fraud, because the banks just claim "it must have been you" and won't cover it.


     


    NFC will be a great way to siphon money out of your account from a distance, and you'll likely have no recourse.

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  • Reply 31 of 105

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    I care about it in the sense that it has the potential to completely redefine the very concept of 'purchasing' if done correctly.


     


    I'd rather Apple not do it at all until they CAN do it correctly.



     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post



    There's no NFC because two reasons:

    1. Apple was not able to source a baseband part with integrated NFC as the time of the design. Broadcom now offers one, but it's very new.

    2. Whatever Apple is working on with NFC almost certainly includes Authentec biometrics for PIN. Obviously, it's not ready.

    People who don't realize why NFC is great just don't understand it. It's hard to understand why NFC is so important, especially if you are living in America and have no idea what a smartcard is.

    But, NFC is hugely important. Do you like what's happening it the credit card processing space? Banks are charging annual fees to deal with fraud, and vendors are more commonly loading the 3% transaction fee to the customer (you). If you spend $20K a year on your card, you will have donated $600 to FirstData. Incidentally, that's more than enough to by a second Android Phone with NFC.


     


    I don't understand. What does NFC do that is so cool? How will it redefine purchasing?


     


    Do I still have to go to a designated payment point (cashier) to purchase items? Yep. Do I still have to get something out of my pocket to pay for said items? Yep. Is there still some sort of authentication process to determine the payment is coming from a legitimate purchaser? Yep.


     


    Oh look, it changes everything while changing nothing. So I won't have to carry a slim piece of plastic in my pocket anymore, I still have to carry an ID among various other things necessitating a wallet.


     


    And if FirstData or another entity is verifying purchases aren't fraudulent with a plastic card, I'm sure there'll be the same or other entities verifying NFC purchases. And the purchaser will still pay for that verification in the same way.


     


    Like I said, it changes everything without solving any problems!


     


    Please tell me I'm wrong. What am I missing? What is so amazing about NFC or non-contact purchasing?


     


    In my opinion, the Apple Store has already solved this in its own way. Just buy items through a localized website, walk out with items in hand and receipt on screen. Your card number and data can be pre-programed in. Done.

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  • Reply 32 of 105


    Originally Posted by d4rkriver View Post

    I don't understand. What does NFC do that is so cool? How will it redefine purchasing?


     


    Do I still have to go to a designated payment point (cashier) to purchase items? Yep. Do I still have to get something out of my pocket to pay for said items? Yep. Is there still some sort of authentication process to determine the payment is coming from a legitimate purchaser? Yep.


     


    Oh look, it changes everything while changing nothing. So I won't have to carry a slim piece of plastic in my pocket anymore, I still have to carry an ID among various other things necessitating a wallet.



     


    Fine. Wait six decades for a chip to be embedded in your hand whereby you can't buy anything without having it.


     


    Frick's sake. Of course you still have to carry something.

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  • Reply 33 of 105

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post




    Who the heck cares about NFC besides tech-heads and fandroids?  In all my travels, I have yet to come across anything that would use it?  I see no merchants, stores, vending machines, etc. that has it.



    Oh wait, it's only a huge deal to those that simply want it for the sake of having it and having "bragging rights".  Jeez.. when there's stuff out there that uses it, then Apple will look into it.



    Assuming you live in San Francisco (sflocal?), NFC is in every parking meter.  It's also in most shops, you just haven't noticed because it is integrated into the payment terminals.  Point of sale companies have been successful recently with NFC terminals, because vendors WANT IT.  They currently are forced to eat 3% in credit card transaction fees.  That's a lot of money.  Using Paypal (or whoever) as an intermediary still requires a transaction fee.  Vendors are simply not going to go out of their way to support forms of payment that require transaction fees when NFC, which does not, is available and moving along nicely.

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  • Reply 34 of 105
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,742member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by silverpraxis View Post


    Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't inductive charging either slower or more power "leaky" than the classic cable? And isn't it only worth it if you have a large induction pad that could potentially charge multiple mobile devices set on it at one time (so only one power pad plugged into the wall compared with two or more devices).



     


    Inductive charging is extremely wasteful.  No company legitimately concerned about the environment would embrace it as a core product feature.

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  • Reply 35 of 105

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    You don't understand: the technology won't exist in any meaningful capacity until Apple does it right. At least in this scenario. I use "Apple" even though I don't believe in them anymore because there's no one else in the industry shown to be capable of doing it right.


     


    All previous attempts at this will be considered useless once the proper implementation is set forth.



    NFC was popular in Japan for a number of years before the name was invented. One of the major faults noted in the iPhone prior to its arrival there was that it lacked such a capability.


     


    Cheers

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  • Reply 36 of 105


    Originally Posted by minicapt View Post

    NFC was popular in Japan for a number of years before the name was invented. One of the major faults noted in the iPhone prior to its arrival there was that it lacked such a capability.


     


    Cheers



     


    That's not the revolution. That's a digital version of an analog setup.

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  • Reply 37 of 105

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by d4rkriver View Post


     


     


    I don't understand. What does NFC do that is so cool? How will it redefine purchasing?



    NFC hasn't redefined purchasing.  It is a transparent, contactless interface for smartcards.  Smartcards have been successful in most parts of the world for over a decade.  I won't go in to the reasons why they didn't catch-on in USA, but it is because of dirty politics.


     


    Anyway, you already do have a smartcard that you don't know about: your SIM card.


     


    Vendors like it because they don't have to deal with transaction fees that go to middlemen.  Vendors are buying NFC payment terminals in large quantities already.  You might not notice this except when gasoline prices end up being sold at 3% less for NFC users.  Furthermore, it's a billion times more secure than magstripe is.  Magstripe, frankly, is a liability.

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  • Reply 38 of 105
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sabuga View Post


     






    Your right, inductive charging is VERY slow, and draws more power than it can transfer to the device. A classic one is both electric toothbrushes, they are inductive. They take about 24 hours to fully charge, and they consume more power than they transfer to the battery. Having one big pad, that you could put a phone, iDevice on would be good (for overnight charging).



     


    I wonder why Greenpeace has not said anything about companies using this wasteful technology.


     


    If everything we charged was switched to it, we'd have to dig up a lot more coal.

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  • Reply 39 of 105
    Inductive charging would be pretty nice, especially since everything else is already wireless anyway, it would add to the coolness factor which is pretty relevant when it comes to Apple hardware. Cables could still be used, all Apple would have to do would be to leave two metal contacts somewhere on the outer shell of the phone that a case / bumper / whatever could connect to and the problem with USB charging would go away. They could even use more of these contacts to implement a decent dock with all kinds of AV output without requiring an actual port.
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  • Reply 40 of 105
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,742member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    I wonder why Greenpeace has not said anything about companies using this wasteful technology.



     


    Greenpeace only gets involved when they think can milk a situation for maximum publicity.

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