Jesus Christ. That assinine statement has become a parody of itself. Guess what? Alot of Apple products 'didn't work' when Steve Jobs was around, and there was alot of shit that was more eggregious than this. Stop using revisionist history and pretending that's just not the case, so you can troll.
What Apple decided to embark on was a massive endeavor. Mapping the world is the most complex thing you can possibly do. I don't see how any rational person expected this to be in all respects ON PAR with Google maps, which has benefitted from 10+ years of being by hundreds of millions of people. If this was released next year, or the year after, the situation would have been similar- there's only so much you can do without releasing it to the public and getting feedback. You think Google maps would have stood still? Yes, there might be a while of pain for some while the gaps get filled out. But they WILL get filled up, quickly, because Apple has every reason and every motivation to do so as fast as possible. They know how important this is. And when the dust settles, I'd wager that with Apple's ambition and obsession, and with the usage and feedback of hundreds of millions of iOS users, what we'll end up with a product that is arguably BETTER than Google Maps in ALL respects. It might not be next week or next month, or even 6 months from now. But at this stage Apple maps will improve much faster than Google maps, especially since Google is going to bleed a ton of users.
you are a tough mouse, a mouse with attitude. But you dont count and neither do your posts, because you are not a substantial shareholder of Apple like me. You are the great pretender mouse who has lived a poor life and hopes that in 6 months a product is fixed. Do you give everyone 6 months to fix problems with things they supply you?
Jesus Christ. That assinine statement has become a parody of itself. Guess what? Alot of Apple products 'didn't work' when Steve Jobs was around, and there was alot of shit that was more eggregious than this. Stop using revisionist history and pretending that's just not the case, so you can troll.
What Apple decided to embark on was a massive endeavor. Mapping the world is the most complex thing you can possibly do. I don't see how any rational person expected this to be in all respects ON PAR with Google maps, which has benefitted from 10+ years of being by hundreds of millions of people. If this was released next year, or the year after, the situation would have been similar- there's only so much you can do without releasing it to the public and getting feedback. You think Google maps would have stood still? Yes, there might be a while of pain for some while the gaps get filled out. But they WILL get filled up, quickly, because Apple has every reason and every motivation to do so as fast as possible. They know how important this is. And when the dust settles, I'd wager that with Apple's ambition and obsession, and with the usage and feedback of hundreds of millions of iOS users, what we'll end up with a product that is arguably BETTER than Google Maps in ALL respects. It might not be next week or next month, or even 6 months from now. But at this stage Apple maps will improve much faster than Google maps, especially since Google is going to bleed a ton of users.
you are a tough mouse, a mouse with attitude. But you dont count and neither do your posts, because you are not a substantial shareholder of Apple like me. You are the great pretender mouse who has lived a poor life and hopes that in 6 months a product is fixed. Do you give everyone 6 months to fix problems with things they supply you?
Obviously you will now be selling your substantial holdings before the stock plunges any further. And you should get some help for your mouse issues.
I'm not selling. My lab tests on this forum have revealed something that makes me sure to not sell:
1. blindly loyal mice that despite having a mess of a Maps product dished up to them, continue to be loyal and not raise a stir. Nobody is to blame for the Maps app and how dare anyone even criticise Scott Forstall. This is what gives me confidence that I should keep my shares, because these mice will continue to support Apple no matter what, and continue to make me richer as the share price heads towards $850 and possibly $1000. I feel good.
I'm not selling. My lab tests on this forum have revealed something that makes me sure to not sell:
1. blindly loyal mice that despite having a mess of a Maps product dished up to them, continue to be loyal and not raise a stir. Nobody is to blame for the Maps app and how dare anyone even criticise Scott Forstall. This is what gives me confidence that I should keep my shares, because these mice will continue to support Apple no matter what, and continue to make me richer as the share price heads towards $850 and possibly $1000. I feel good.
That's good to hear. As long as you reach the right conclusion, it really doesn't matter how crazy the reasoning.
Except, you don't really own any stock at all, do you?
I have never defended FlyOver as "easier to use than Street View in every way". I have said that it is easier to use (get the lay of the land, faster to move around, zoom in/out, etc.) and it does some things that street view cannot do. However, Street View also has some uses that FlyOver cannot do.
I even posted an example where I traced my grandkids recent trip to Victoria BC using iOS 6 maps. I noted they were staying at a house with a Red Roof between two Gray Roofs. Using Street View in iOS 5 Maps, I found the house, took a screen snap and emailed it to my granddaughter with the caption "Look Familiar?". She was so unnerved that she thought I had followed them up there.
I try to look at issues from all sides -- I am not a blind Apple fan boy, and resent being defined as such by you or anybody!
Woah! No way do I or have ever thought you were a blind Apple fan boy. Quite the opposite. I think your analyze and dissect topics in very through and clever ways that others don't. I do think we disagree about the usefulness of FlyOver and StreetView but I wouldn't think disagreeing would be an issue. I disagree with many forum members all the time with whom I respect, and like, and think are highly intelligent and aren't in any way "iSheep". If I mentally grouped you in with MBP in thinking that Street View isn't needed with FlyOver then I sincerely apologize.
"They say great minds think alike but the opposite is true. It's the common mind that thinks like others and the great mind that thinks in ways others can't readily comprehend. Even among great minds there will always new ways of conceiving ideas that the others haven't yet thought of."
edit: I think this is the best argument I've read for Apple's new Maps back-end (although I still feel they should have waited a year to button it up more): "Yes, Apple’s evil. When Apple barred Flash from iOS, Flash was the best and only way to play .swf files. Apple’s video alternative, H.264, wasn’t nearly as widely used. Thus Apple’s solution was “inferior” and appeared to be against its own users’ interests. Sheer corporate greed! Trillion words have been written about just how misguided Apple was in denying its users the glory of Flash on iOS. Well, Flash is now dead on mobile. And yet the Earth’s obliquity of the ecliptic is still about 23.4°. We seemed to have survived that one."
That's good to hear. As long as you reach the right conclusion, it really doesn't matter how crazy the reasoning.
Except, you don't really own any stock at all, do you?
It's amazing how people like you and others on this forum question whether I own stock. I do own significant stock, it has made me richer, and yes I will continue to hold all of it despite Forstall's attempt to #uck up a great brand. You guys should actually wake up to the real world that there are actually people out there that do own stock in Apple - Hello there, I am one of them!
You continue to choose to believe what you want if it makes you feel more secure, you muppet mouse.
That's good to hear. As long as you reach the right conclusion, it really doesn't matter how crazy the reasoning.
Except, you don't really own any stock at all, do you?
It's amazing how people like you and others on this forum question whether I own stock. I do own significant stock, it has made me richer, and yes I will continue to hold all of it despite Forstall's attempt to #uck up a great brand. You guys should actually wake up to the real world that there are actually people out there that do own stock in Apple - Hello there, I am one of them!
You continue to choose to believe what you want if it makes you feel more secure, you muppet mouse.
What's amazing is that you are amazed. You dismiss other posters as mice, and their views as unimportant because they don't (a total assumption on your part) own stock. Then you make childishly silly assertions and arguments, and you are surprised that your own self-aggrandizing claims are doubted. Plenty of posters here own stock, and manage to do so without making total asses of themselves. And you really do need to ease up on the mouse thing - it's starting to get seriously weird.
What's amazing is that you are amazed. You dismiss other posters as mice, and their views as unimportant because they don't (a total assumption on your part) own stock. Then you make childishly silly assertions and arguments, and you are surprised that your own self-aggrandizing claims are doubted. Plenty of posters here own stock, and manage to do so without making total asses of themselves. And you really do need to ease up on the mouse thing - it's starting to get seriously weird.
I don't question whether other posters own Apple stock or not, all I care about is that I significantly do. Some of the posters who question me about this should perhaps think through why they are asking that question.
I have conducted my research of the 'mice' and their attitudes so I don't really need to use that term any longer.
PS It's the funniest thing being told to ease up on the mouse thing from someone who choooses to call themselves 'muppetry'.
Woah! No way do I or have ever thought you were a blind Apple fan boy. Quite the opposite. I think your analyze and dissect topics in very through and clever ways that others don't. I do think we disagree about the usefulness of FlyOver and StreetView but I wouldn't think disagreeing would be an issue. I disagree with many forum members all the time with whom I respect, and like, and think are highly intelligent and aren't in any way "iSheep". If I mentally grouped you in with MBP in thinking that Street View isn't needed with FlyOver then I sincerely apologize.
"They say great minds think alike but the opposite is true. It's the common mind that thinks like others and the great mind that thinks in ways others can't readily comprehend. Even among great minds there will always new ways of conceiving ideas that the others haven't yet thought of."
edit: I think this is the best argument I've read for Apple's new Maps back-end (although I still feel they should have waited a year to button it up more): "Yes, Apple’s evil. When Apple barred Flash from iOS, Flash was the best and only way to play .swf files. Apple’s video alternative, H.264, wasn’t nearly as widely used. Thus Apple’s solution was “inferior” and appeared to be against its own users’ interests. Sheer corporate greed! Trillion words have been written about just how misguided Apple was in denying its users the glory of Flash on iOS. Well, Flash is now dead on mobile. And yet the Earth’s obliquity of the ecliptic is still about 23.4°. We seemed to have survived that one."
You don't sound like one by the things you asked and questioned. You sound like someone with some "the sky is falling" conspiracy to tell.
No conspiracy, just a stock owner wondering what the hell Forstall was thinking (or not thinking). Asleep on the job. We can all shrg our shoulders and say, ah well things sometimes go wrong, bad luck Scott, you will do better next time. Or alternatively, someone can show some leadership and in the tradition of Steve Jobs, launch a tirade of personal abuse on the smirking Forstall and then promptly sack him.
So, none of you actually have anything to contribute?
Except to point out that a mapping application should, you know, have some semblance of accuracy. That apple actually put out a press release tells you something, no?
In my area it's like all the location pins have been thrown in the air and left to hit the ground. Added bonus is they also used old pins. Wholly inadequate.
Being pretty is not enough. It has to work.
But tell us all about the fantastic features again. Features being ignored because the app sucks. For now, I hope.
I wonder at the number of people confidently predicting that things will get better quickly in Apple's Maps app because of crowd sourced data. The problem as I see it is that for many people the maps in their current state are borderline useless. If they don't use them because they are so poor then where is the crowd sourced data going to come from? Apple needs to throw some serious resources at this. If Google releases a Maps app for iOS then they will be back in the driving seat as their will be a huge migration back to them. This, of course, gives them all the data they lost from iOS6 customers being switched away.
Ha ha, you are using 5-year old screenshots of Google Maps (back when it was in Beta) to prove your point. Google Maps doesn't even look anything like that anymore
E.g.
Do you think Apple Maps should be measured against the standard of a 2007 beta product? I am used to Apple being best-in-class and pushing the envelope with innovation, not coming out with half-baked failures and then complaining that the other companies got a head start
Ha ha, you are using 5-year old screenshots of Google Maps (back when it was in Beta) to prove your point. Google Maps doesn't even look anything like that anymore
E.g.
Do you think Apple Maps should be measured against the standard of a 2007 beta product? I am used to Apple being best-in-class and pushing the envelope with innovation, not coming out with half-baked failures and then complaining that the other companies got a head start
I wonder at the number of people confidently predicting that things will get better quickly in Apple's Maps app because of crowd sourced data. The problem as I see it is that for many people the maps in their current state are borderline useless. If they don't use them because they are so poor then where is the crowd sourced data going to come from? Apple needs to throw some serious resources at this. If Google releases a Maps app for iOS then they will be back in the driving seat as their will be a huge migration back to them. This, of course, gives them all the data they lost from iOS6 customers being switched away.
I don't think it will get better because of the data.
I think it will get better because *the data is already very good*.
The problem is that Apple is reading and displaying that data incorrectly.
Here is a simple test: look up "bancroft ontario" in Maps and on the OpenStreetMaps web page. Note that Maps is off by miles, while OSM is perfect. That implies that Apple is simply reading the wrong data, or displaying it incorrectly.
I've been testing this a *lot* over the last two days, and in every case I threw at it, OSM not only got the location within a few tens of meters, but it outperformed Google by a little, and Bing by a whole lot. Apple just seems to be sorting its databases incorrectly, and not shuffling OSM and Geoplaces to the top, as they should. But that should be an easy fix.
That doesn't fix FlyOver rendering problems, or the fugly maps layout that makes parks the most important thing on the screen, but I honestly don't care about that. It does mean that Maps will be able to get you from Ajax to Bancroft properly, and that's all that really matters.
The problem is that Apple is reading and displaying that data incorrectly.
Here is a simple test: look up "bancroft ontario" in Maps and on the OpenStreetMaps web page. Note that Maps is off by miles, while OSM is perfect. That implies that Apple is simply reading the wrong data, or displaying it incorrectly.
So is Apple using OpenStreetMaps, or are they using OpenMaps? I've read both.
Comments
no, im just a concerned apple shareholder.
you are a tough mouse, a mouse with attitude. But you dont count and neither do your posts, because you are not a substantial shareholder of Apple like me. You are the great pretender mouse who has lived a poor life and hopes that in 6 months a product is fixed. Do you give everyone 6 months to fix problems with things they supply you?
Obviously you will now be selling your substantial holdings before the stock plunges any further. And you should get some help for your mouse issues.
I'm not selling. My lab tests on this forum have revealed something that makes me sure to not sell:
1. blindly loyal mice that despite having a mess of a Maps product dished up to them, continue to be loyal and not raise a stir. Nobody is to blame for the Maps app and how dare anyone even criticise Scott Forstall. This is what gives me confidence that I should keep my shares, because these mice will continue to support Apple no matter what, and continue to make me richer as the share price heads towards $850 and possibly $1000. I feel good.
That's good to hear. As long as you reach the right conclusion, it really doesn't matter how crazy the reasoning.
Except, you don't really own any stock at all, do you?
Woah! No way do I or have ever thought you were a blind Apple fan boy. Quite the opposite. I think your analyze and dissect topics in very through and clever ways that others don't. I do think we disagree about the usefulness of FlyOver and StreetView but I wouldn't think disagreeing would be an issue. I disagree with many forum members all the time with whom I respect, and like, and think are highly intelligent and aren't in any way "iSheep". If I mentally grouped you in with MBP in thinking that Street View isn't needed with FlyOver then I sincerely apologize.
"They say great minds think alike but the opposite is true. It's the common mind that thinks like others and the great mind that thinks in ways others can't readily comprehend. Even among great minds there will always new ways of conceiving ideas that the others haven't yet thought of."
edit: I think this is the best argument I've read for Apple's new Maps back-end (although I still feel they should have waited a year to button it up more): "Yes, Apple’s evil. When Apple barred Flash from iOS, Flash was the best and only way to play .swf files. Apple’s video alternative, H.264, wasn’t nearly as widely used. Thus Apple’s solution was “inferior” and appeared to be against its own users’ interests. Sheer corporate greed! Trillion words have been written about just how misguided Apple was in denying its users the glory of Flash on iOS. Well, Flash is now dead on mobile. And yet the Earth’s obliquity of the ecliptic is still about 23.4°. We seemed to have survived that one."
You don't sound like one by the things you asked and questioned. You sound like someone with some "the sky is falling" conspiracy to tell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry
That's good to hear. As long as you reach the right conclusion, it really doesn't matter how crazy the reasoning.
Except, you don't really own any stock at all, do you?
It's amazing how people like you and others on this forum question whether I own stock. I do own significant stock, it has made me richer, and yes I will continue to hold all of it despite Forstall's attempt to #uck up a great brand. You guys should actually wake up to the real world that there are actually people out there that do own stock in Apple - Hello there, I am one of them!
You continue to choose to believe what you want if it makes you feel more secure, you muppet mouse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry
That's good to hear. As long as you reach the right conclusion, it really doesn't matter how crazy the reasoning.
Except, you don't really own any stock at all, do you?
It's amazing how people like you and others on this forum question whether I own stock. I do own significant stock, it has made me richer, and yes I will continue to hold all of it despite Forstall's attempt to #uck up a great brand. You guys should actually wake up to the real world that there are actually people out there that do own stock in Apple - Hello there, I am one of them!
You continue to choose to believe what you want if it makes you feel more secure, you muppet mouse.
What's amazing is that you are amazed. You dismiss other posters as mice, and their views as unimportant because they don't (a total assumption on your part) own stock. Then you make childishly silly assertions and arguments, and you are surprised that your own self-aggrandizing claims are doubted. Plenty of posters here own stock, and manage to do so without making total asses of themselves. And you really do need to ease up on the mouse thing - it's starting to get seriously weird.
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry
What's amazing is that you are amazed. You dismiss other posters as mice, and their views as unimportant because they don't (a total assumption on your part) own stock. Then you make childishly silly assertions and arguments, and you are surprised that your own self-aggrandizing claims are doubted. Plenty of posters here own stock, and manage to do so without making total asses of themselves. And you really do need to ease up on the mouse thing - it's starting to get seriously weird.
I don't question whether other posters own Apple stock or not, all I care about is that I significantly do. Some of the posters who question me about this should perhaps think through why they are asking that question.
I have conducted my research of the 'mice' and their attitudes so I don't really need to use that term any longer.
PS It's the funniest thing being told to ease up on the mouse thing from someone who choooses to call themselves 'muppetry'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart
PS It's the funniest thing being told to ease up on the mouse thing from someone who choooses to call themselves 'muppetry'.
Why? Is there some connection?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Woah! No way do I or have ever thought you were a blind Apple fan boy. Quite the opposite. I think your analyze and dissect topics in very through and clever ways that others don't. I do think we disagree about the usefulness of FlyOver and StreetView but I wouldn't think disagreeing would be an issue. I disagree with many forum members all the time with whom I respect, and like, and think are highly intelligent and aren't in any way "iSheep". If I mentally grouped you in with MBP in thinking that Street View isn't needed with FlyOver then I sincerely apologize.
"They say great minds think alike but the opposite is true. It's the common mind that thinks like others and the great mind that thinks in ways others can't readily comprehend. Even among great minds there will always new ways of conceiving ideas that the others haven't yet thought of."
edit: I think this is the best argument I've read for Apple's new Maps back-end (although I still feel they should have waited a year to button it up more): "Yes, Apple’s evil. When Apple barred Flash from iOS, Flash was the best and only way to play .swf files. Apple’s video alternative, H.264, wasn’t nearly as widely used. Thus Apple’s solution was “inferior” and appeared to be against its own users’ interests. Sheer corporate greed! Trillion words have been written about just how misguided Apple was in denying its users the glory of Flash on iOS. Well, Flash is now dead on mobile. And yet the Earth’s obliquity of the ecliptic is still about 23.4°. We seemed to have survived that one."
You don't sound like one by the things you asked and questioned. You sound like someone with some "the sky is falling" conspiracy to tell.
No conspiracy, just a stock owner wondering what the hell Forstall was thinking (or not thinking). Asleep on the job. We can all shrg our shoulders and say, ah well things sometimes go wrong, bad luck Scott, you will do better next time. Or alternatively, someone can show some leadership and in the tradition of Steve Jobs, launch a tirade of personal abuse on the smirking Forstall and then promptly sack him.
Except to point out that a mapping application should, you know, have some semblance of accuracy. That apple actually put out a press release tells you something, no?
In my area it's like all the location pins have been thrown in the air and left to hit the ground. Added bonus is they also used old pins. Wholly inadequate.
Being pretty is not enough. It has to work.
But tell us all about the fantastic features again. Features being ignored because the app sucks. For now, I hope.
proved that how ignorant and how blind apple fans can be.. this is all about business!!
Surely you jest by saying that a business is about doing business. That concept absolutely blows my mind¡
I wonder at the number of people confidently predicting that things will get better quickly in Apple's Maps app because of crowd sourced data. The problem as I see it is that for many people the maps in their current state are borderline useless. If they don't use them because they are so poor then where is the crowd sourced data going to come from? Apple needs to throw some serious resources at this. If Google releases a Maps app for iOS then they will be back in the driving seat as their will be a huge migration back to them. This, of course, gives them all the data they lost from iOS6 customers being switched away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
Good thing Google Maps are perfect! Oh, wait!
Ha ha, you are using 5-year old screenshots of Google Maps (back when it was in Beta) to prove your point. Google Maps doesn't even look anything like that anymore
E.g.
Do you think Apple Maps should be measured against the standard of a 2007 beta product? I am used to Apple being best-in-class and pushing the envelope with innovation, not coming out with half-baked failures and then complaining that the other companies got a head start
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
Good thing Google Maps are perfect! Oh, wait!
Ha ha, you are using 5-year old screenshots of Google Maps (back when it was in Beta) to prove your point. Google Maps doesn't even look anything like that anymore
E.g.
Do you think Apple Maps should be measured against the standard of a 2007 beta product? I am used to Apple being best-in-class and pushing the envelope with innovation, not coming out with half-baked failures and then complaining that the other companies got a head start
Originally Posted by Grouty2
I wonder at the number of people confidently predicting that things will get better quickly in Apple's Maps app because of crowd sourced data. The problem as I see it is that for many people the maps in their current state are borderline useless. If they don't use them because they are so poor then where is the crowd sourced data going to come from? Apple needs to throw some serious resources at this. If Google releases a Maps app for iOS then they will be back in the driving seat as their will be a huge migration back to them. This, of course, gives them all the data they lost from iOS6 customers being switched away.
I don't think it will get better because of the data.
I think it will get better because *the data is already very good*.
The problem is that Apple is reading and displaying that data incorrectly.
Here is a simple test: look up "bancroft ontario" in Maps and on the OpenStreetMaps web page. Note that Maps is off by miles, while OSM is perfect. That implies that Apple is simply reading the wrong data, or displaying it incorrectly.
I've been testing this a *lot* over the last two days, and in every case I threw at it, OSM not only got the location within a few tens of meters, but it outperformed Google by a little, and Bing by a whole lot. Apple just seems to be sorting its databases incorrectly, and not shuffling OSM and Geoplaces to the top, as they should. But that should be an easy fix.
That doesn't fix FlyOver rendering problems, or the fugly maps layout that makes parks the most important thing on the screen, but I honestly don't care about that. It does mean that Maps will be able to get you from Ajax to Bancroft properly, and that's all that really matters.
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz
The problem is that Apple is reading and displaying that data incorrectly.
Here is a simple test: look up "bancroft ontario" in Maps and on the OpenStreetMaps web page. Note that Maps is off by miles, while OSM is perfect. That implies that Apple is simply reading the wrong data, or displaying it incorrectly.
So is Apple using OpenStreetMaps, or are they using OpenMaps? I've read both.
http://blog.telemapics.com/?p=399