I meant improving basic surface maps and search data.
I do not have an answer for satellite imagery. Except, I doubt that Google has its own satellites -- it must be relying on someone else to supply the images.
I expect that Apple can obtain satellite images from the same or other sources.
I suspect that iOS 6 Maps uses a different software mechanism than iOS 5 maps to store, generate and present its satellite images -- thus the difference in speed.
If the above is true, then it is only a matter of time and priorities to convert and update the imagery in iOS 6 Maps.
BTW, Search for places like Machu Picchu, Lake Titicaca or Nazca Lines and there isn't all that much difference between the two maps apps.
P.S. Lake Michigan is a clean... Lake Titicaca is a dirty..
Most of Google's satellite images were taken by a airplane, the others are real satellite images they probably purchased. I remember satellite images being all over the news at the beginning of the first Gulf War taken by a government contractor.
"It’s safe to say that Google is going to continue to push to monetize Google Maps and bank on the substantial investment it has made to develop the service. That’s probably not going to mean higher fees for apps and services to use Google Maps; however, it’s more likely that Google will continue to tweak terms of service so users of Google Maps will increasingly have to accept advertising from Google pushed along with Google Map content. And, of course, that advertising will be location-specific to whatever mapping data is being requested. And you can bet it will be filtered through the increasingly comprehensive dossier of interests, preferences, and demographic information Google accumulates about users through its new all-encompassing privacy policy.
The fees to use Google Maps probably aren’t what’s starting to put off companies like Foursquare and Apple — it’s probably the ever-increasing reach of Google’s advertising efforts. Third parties may not be comfortable acting as windows for Google’s advertising platform, and that’s particularly true for firms that compete against Google in one way or another — whether that be offering location-based deals or a leading mobile platform.
As i have said in other posts (and been criticised for by the fanboys) this is another example that apple products do NOT 'just work'. Timmy Cook and co no longer use this line. I am telling you it is the beginning of a long and slow end for these guys without the great Steve Jobs. These guys are becoming a parody of themselves.
As i have said in other posts (and been criticised for by the fanboys) this is another example that apple products do NOT 'just work'. Timmy Cook and co
no longer use this line. I am telling you it is the beginning of a long and slow end for these guys without the great Steve Jobs. These guys are becoming a parody of themselves.
I can't help but think you are wearing a cardboard sign that talks about the end of the world when you wrote that.
Problem is... it needs to be in use by the public (actual users) to get better.
AS mstone states, that's don't fly. You and MacBook Pro have been defending FlyOver as being more useful than Street View in every way and yet it's not. Plain and simple. As I showed month ago you can't see writing on store fronts. You virtually go down a street. I'm sure FlyOver has its uses but they aren't not parallel to Street View.
There are nice features to iOS 6 Maps which I mentioned months ago. They are doing the right thing by making their apps, but it is not a finished product. Plain and simple.
This is not Siri, which actually does need users to become better. You can't understand cultural references, voice patterns, accents, and the innumerable things people might causally request without excessive sourcing. This is why it's in beta. Is iOS 6 Maps in beta? Not that I've seen, nor should it be because a proper product has access to lat and long, has access to business addresses and where they correlate on a map, and has the features that people use already built in.
Crowd sourcing plays no role in any of those basic features and functionality. Is my iPhone going to secretly record video when I'm walking down the sidewalk so they can splice in Street View? Where is the FlyOver in more than a few places. AT&T has more LTE coverage than Apple has FlyOver locations (OK, I just made that one up, but it could be true).
There is potential there but they should have waited another year before releasing this unfinished product. We rightfully pooh-pooh other companies for bringing to market half-baked projected so why does Apple get a pass here? This is not up to their usual level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
I have a crazy idea. Let's allow consumers to decide.
I am a consumer and made a decision. I also wrote extensively as to how I came to my decision. It wasn't emotional. It wasn't flippant. It was as objective and critical as I could possibly be and I determined exactly how people would feel about their Maps app if they didn't get a bunch of things resolved. So far, the only thing they have resolved is making it faster than iOS 5 Maps on an iPhone 4.
I have never defended FlyOver as "easier to use than Street View in every way". I have said that it is easier to use (get the lay of the land, faster to move around, zoom in/out, etc.) and it does some things that street view cannot do. However, Street View also has some uses that FlyOver cannot do.
I even posted an example where I traced my grandkids recent trip to Victoria BC using iOS 6 maps. I noted they were staying at a house with a Red Roof between two Gray Roofs. Using Street View in iOS 5 Maps, I found the house, took a screen snap and emailed it to my granddaughter with the caption "Look Familiar?". She was so unnerved that she thought I had followed them up there.
I try to look at issues from all sides -- I am not a blind Apple fan boy, and resent being defined as such by you or anybody!
As i have said in other posts (and been criticised for by the fanboys) this is another example that apple products do NOT 'just work'. Timmy Cook and co
no longer use this line. I am telling you it is the beginning of a long and slow end for these guys without the great Steve Jobs. These guys are becoming a parody of themselves.
You mean because Steve Jobs would never ...
ship a phone without physical dial pad?
ship a laptop without a CD/DVD/Bluray drive?
ship a computer without an RS-232 port?
put a useless RF-45 connector in for networking?
only connect to printers through a network connector?
not at all. But folks aren't thinking about that. They expect Apple Maps 1.0 to be equal to Google Maps 7.0. If they even release that it's a new database. it's like the folks that expected Siri to be perfect for every voice not understanding that voice systems need training and that means access to millions of different voices (meaning the users).
You raise any interesting question. Could some of this be due to the high traffic of 'everyone' updating to iOS 6 yesterday and then hitting the Maps servers in rapid and constant use. We saw app store connections go down, especially in Passbook. We saw the whole wifi verification page crashing and so on due to high traffic. Could some of the errors especially with searching have been at least partially due to overloading the system.
I think no one would complain has Apple included both Maps apps for iOS6 and spend time developing iMaps during the next year, then (maybe) ditch Gmaps and leave iMaps only for iOS7, based on users feedback among other things. Or with iOS8.
But replacing very polished and feature-full product with beta? Too rushed out. I agree with people here, it is very un-Apple. They don't rush out.
Using browser, sure. But on my 3Gs, it feels noticeably slower than native app. I guess I cannot blame them for having 3+ years old phone, but that is my reality right now.
Can anyone tell me how is New Zealand - especially Auckland - covered in new iMaps? Since 3Gs is not getting some new features with iOS6 anyway, if new maps are unusable for NZ, I should probably stay with iOS5 and wait for new phone...
I think no one would complain has Apple included both Maps apps for iOS6 and spend time developing iMaps during the next year, then (maybe) ditch Gmaps and leave iMaps only for iOS7, based on users feedback among other things. Or with iOS8.
But replacing very polished and feature-full product with beta? Too rushed out. I agree with people here, it is very un-Apple. They don't rush out.
Using browser, sure. But on my 3Gs, it feels noticeably slower than native app. I guess I cannot blame them for having 3+ years old phone, but that is my reality right now.
Can anyone tell me how is New Zealand - especially Auckland - covered in new iMaps? Since 3Gs is not getting some new features with iOS6 anyway, if new maps are unusable for NZ, I should probably stay with iOS5 and wait for new phone...
Please read my referenced article. This is the first phone Apple released since Google changed the business strategy for Google Maps. I am not sure that Apple had a lot of choice ...
the current agreement ran out -- it does not cover iOS 6 and iPhone 5 and later iDevices
Apple and Google tried to negotiate a new agreement
Apple wanted to use Google Turn-By-Turn and other new map features
Google wanted to include ads and wanted access to user data
neither party would yield
I think that this negotiation process has been on-going for several years -- with each side maneuvering for position.
Apple, seeing the handwriting on the wall, bought some mapping companies and licensed map data from others.
At some point, the battle was going to be joined -- better now, than later.
Apple must have decided to go cheap on the imagery and the data because there is much better of both on nearly every other map source. Sad because they easily could have purchased the very best of both if they had wanted to.
Knowing Apple as many here do (Including you and me), I doubt they went cheap -- rather they went with expediency! I expect them to spend top dollars to have the best mapping solution out there, bar none. I'd give them a year to be competitive.
The Maps app can be tweaked with minor point upgrades to iOS 6 -- I expect one in less than 2 months.
The imagery and map data can be updated continuously regardless of the app or iOS version.
The fact that third parties have access to some mapping APIs, indicates that enhancements like public transportation can be added anytime -- like today, for instance,
This entire discussion reminds me of every time I've ever been involved in installing new systems anywhere. Users go crazy on day 1. "Nothing works... I can't do X... I can't do Y... The old system was so much easier... Whoever picked this system should be fired..." And so it goes for, always, at least the first few days, sometimes even weeks. The kinks get worked out. Turns out there is a better way to do X & Y, in one step, by just doing Z. (Or X & Y don't even exist any more, because the new system has a better way of doing things altogether.) After a few weeks or months, everyone thinks the new system is so much better, except a few diehards who simply can't deal with any change. The company moves on and wonders how they ever got anything done with the old system, the new one is so much better...
I think that's pretty much what we're going to see here with Maps.
iOS 6 Maps -- Yes Virginia, You Can Spin The Globe
The colors you see in the globe are obviously colored using simulations. I have studied the way those simulations work and it appears that they have done some pretty clever blending as you zoom in using terrain maps, complete with fake cirrus clouds. If there is no true color imagery they illustrate it in. It isn't until you really zoom in to like what Google would call level 9 or 10 do see actual photography in many place around the world. If that imagery is in grayscale they artificially color it. Once you are level 11+ you see the actual patchwork of the photos. I wish they had spent as much time and money to get high quality imagery in the first place rather than the smoke and mirrors they choose to use instead.
As has been mentioned, you can use maps.google.com in Safari and place an icon on the home screen. I did this months ago in preparation for the new Apple maps replacement as the devs were already warning how it no longer contained transit schedules. In the mobile web version of Google maps, the directions button is the diamond shaped icon with an arrow. Once on that tab you can select walking, driving, transit etc.
I actually didn't think of that up until I saw mention of it somewhere in a discussion. I suppose I simply assumed that Google Maps wouldn't be very well optimized for mobile devices, but in retrospect that was a little silly of me. I'll be doing just this for transit directions. Hopefully Google Maps comes out in the App Store. For most things, I'm actually really liking the update. I'm in a city that appears to be well-populated. Zooming and navigation are much smoother and the app is more enjoyable to use.
Should have worked with Google (use some of that money pile) to keep Google Maps in iOS, until iOS Maps is developed to the degree that some of the more glaring issues are worked out. Apple should have done anything and everything to avoid this PR nightmare.
I wonder who at Apple thought it was ok to release this app in its current state.
Knowing Apple as many here do (Including you and me), I doubt they went cheap -- rather they went with expediency! I expect them to spend top dollars to have the best mapping solution out there, bar none. I'd give them a year to be competitive.
The Maps app can be tweaked with minor point upgrades to iOS 6 -- I expect one in less than 2 months.
The imagery and map data can be updated continuously regardless of the app or iOS version.
The fact that third parties have access to some mapping APIs, indicates that enhancements like public transportation can be added anytime -- like today, for instance,
Whatever happened to "I love how Apple takes it's time perfecting a function before releasing something"? How many things were left out of the iPhone until Apple was sure they nailed it? This is very unApple like and people's frustrations are merited.
This entire discussion reminds me of every time I've ever been involved in installing new systems anywhere. Users go crazy on day 1. "Nothing works... I can't do X... I can't do Y... The old system was so much easier... Whoever picked this system should be fired..." And so it goes for, always, at least the first few days, sometimes even weeks. The kinks get worked out. Turns out there is a better way to do X & Y, in one step, by just doing Z. (Or X & Y don't even exist any more, because the new system has a better way of doing things altogether.) After a few weeks or months, everyone thinks the new system is so much better, except a few diehards who simply can't deal with any change. The company moves on and wonders how they ever got anything done with the old system, the new one is so much better...
I think that's pretty much what we're going to see here with Maps.
My comment here applies to many who have said "just report the problem" or "just wait, in a year or two it will be much better". I don't want to be Apple's free cartography-checker and beta-tester. Apple has $100 billion in the bank. They either should have made a stellar product from the get-go, or not forced iMaps on everyone (who upgrades to iOS 6, which I apparently won't be doing soon) before it was ready.
I don't recall suggesting that people should report the problem, nor would I expect that to be a reasonable solution. But on the other hand, with a project of this scale, Apple does have to release at some stage of readiness which pales in comparison to Google while depending on users to evolve the data to the next level (presuming they actually do a decent job of following up on reported 'problems'). I'm not sure how realistic it would be to expect otherwise. That said, I think I agree that this particular update should have stayed in the oven for another year. But then again, I don't know anything about what the real circumstances behind Google Maps on iOS were.
Is anyone really surprised Apple maps 1.0 is not equal to Google Maps 6.0?
Give it a few months.. maybe even a year. With user feedback and resources focused on the Apple maps.. they will eventually catch up. I have no doubt a company with a $100 Billion in the bank.. can make a great map app.
I bet it gets there quicker than the Google alternative. It will have to.
Comments
Most of Google's satellite images were taken by a airplane, the others are real satellite images they probably purchased. I remember satellite images being all over the news at the beginning of the first Gulf War taken by a government contractor.
More on the whole computer mapping space,
"It’s safe to say that Google is going to continue to push to monetize Google Maps and bank on the substantial investment it has made to develop the service. That’s probably not going to mean higher fees for apps and services to use Google Maps; however, it’s more likely that Google will continue to tweak terms of service so users of Google Maps will increasingly have to accept advertising from Google pushed along with Google Map content. And, of course, that advertising will be location-specific to whatever mapping data is being requested. And you can bet it will be filtered through the increasingly comprehensive dossier of interests, preferences, and demographic information Google accumulates about users through its new all-encompassing privacy policy.
The fees to use Google Maps probably aren’t what’s starting to put off companies like Foursquare and Apple — it’s probably the ever-increasing reach of Google’s advertising efforts. Third parties may not be comfortable acting as windows for Google’s advertising platform, and that’s particularly true for firms that compete against Google in one way or another — whether that be offering location-based deals or a leading mobile platform.
Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/why-are-companies-defecting-from-google-maps/#ixzz2739jYFGa
no longer use this line. I am telling you it is the beginning of a long and slow end for these guys without the great Steve Jobs. These guys are becoming a parody of themselves.
I can't help but think you are wearing a cardboard sign that talks about the end of the world when you wrote that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Problem is... it needs to be in use by the public (actual users) to get better.
AS mstone states, that's don't fly. You and MacBook Pro have been defending FlyOver as being more useful than Street View in every way and yet it's not. Plain and simple. As I showed month ago you can't see writing on store fronts. You virtually go down a street. I'm sure FlyOver has its uses but they aren't not parallel to Street View.
There are nice features to iOS 6 Maps which I mentioned months ago. They are doing the right thing by making their apps, but it is not a finished product. Plain and simple.
This is not Siri, which actually does need users to become better. You can't understand cultural references, voice patterns, accents, and the innumerable things people might causally request without excessive sourcing. This is why it's in beta. Is iOS 6 Maps in beta? Not that I've seen, nor should it be because a proper product has access to lat and long, has access to business addresses and where they correlate on a map, and has the features that people use already built in.
Crowd sourcing plays no role in any of those basic features and functionality. Is my iPhone going to secretly record video when I'm walking down the sidewalk so they can splice in Street View? Where is the FlyOver in more than a few places. AT&T has more LTE coverage than Apple has FlyOver locations (OK, I just made that one up, but it could be true).
There is potential there but they should have waited another year before releasing this unfinished product. We rightfully pooh-pooh other companies for bringing to market half-baked projected so why does Apple get a pass here? This is not up to their usual level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
I have a crazy idea. Let's allow consumers to decide.
I am a consumer and made a decision. I also wrote extensively as to how I came to my decision. It wasn't emotional. It wasn't flippant. It was as objective and critical as I could possibly be and I determined exactly how people would feel about their Maps app if they didn't get a bunch of things resolved. So far, the only thing they have resolved is making it faster than iOS 5 Maps on an iPhone 4.
I have never defended FlyOver as "easier to use than Street View in every way". I have said that it is easier to use (get the lay of the land, faster to move around, zoom in/out, etc.) and it does some things that street view cannot do. However, Street View also has some uses that FlyOver cannot do.
I even posted an example where I traced my grandkids recent trip to Victoria BC using iOS 6 maps. I noted they were staying at a house with a Red Roof between two Gray Roofs. Using Street View in iOS 5 Maps, I found the house, took a screen snap and emailed it to my granddaughter with the caption "Look Familiar?". She was so unnerved that she thought I had followed them up there.
I try to look at issues from all sides -- I am not a blind Apple fan boy, and resent being defined as such by you or anybody!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart
As i have said in other posts (and been criticised for by the fanboys) this is another example that apple products do NOT 'just work'. Timmy Cook and co
no longer use this line. I am telling you it is the beginning of a long and slow end for these guys without the great Steve Jobs. These guys are becoming a parody of themselves.
You mean because Steve Jobs would never ...
ship a phone without physical dial pad?
ship a laptop without a CD/DVD/Bluray drive?
ship a computer without an RS-232 port?
put a useless RF-45 connector in for networking?
only connect to printers through a network connector?
build a graphic user interface?
base all printing on post script?
... I think you get the idea ...
I think no one would complain has Apple included both Maps apps for iOS6 and spend time developing iMaps during the next year, then (maybe) ditch Gmaps and leave iMaps only for iOS7, based on users feedback among other things. Or with iOS8.
But replacing very polished and feature-full product with beta? Too rushed out. I agree with people here, it is very un-Apple. They don't rush out.
Using browser, sure. But on my 3Gs, it feels noticeably slower than native app. I guess I cannot blame them for having 3+ years old phone, but that is my reality right now.
Can anyone tell me how is New Zealand - especially Auckland - covered in new iMaps? Since 3Gs is not getting some new features with iOS6 anyway, if new maps are unusable for NZ, I should probably stay with iOS5 and wait for new phone...
You forgot
8. ship a 7" iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133
I think no one would complain has Apple included both Maps apps for iOS6 and spend time developing iMaps during the next year, then (maybe) ditch Gmaps and leave iMaps only for iOS7, based on users feedback among other things. Or with iOS8.
But replacing very polished and feature-full product with beta? Too rushed out. I agree with people here, it is very un-Apple. They don't rush out.
Using browser, sure. But on my 3Gs, it feels noticeably slower than native app. I guess I cannot blame them for having 3+ years old phone, but that is my reality right now.
Can anyone tell me how is New Zealand - especially Auckland - covered in new iMaps? Since 3Gs is not getting some new features with iOS6 anyway, if new maps are unusable for NZ, I should probably stay with iOS5 and wait for new phone...
Please read my referenced article. This is the first phone Apple released since Google changed the business strategy for Google Maps. I am not sure that Apple had a lot of choice ...
No IOS 6 for me till they fix this POS application! Come on Apple!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
If I were to guess, knowing the parties involved:
the current agreement ran out -- it does not cover iOS 6 and iPhone 5 and later iDevices
Apple and Google tried to negotiate a new agreement
Apple wanted to use Google Turn-By-Turn and other new map features
Google wanted to include ads and wanted access to user data
neither party would yield
I think that this negotiation process has been on-going for several years -- with each side maneuvering for position.
Apple, seeing the handwriting on the wall, bought some mapping companies and licensed map data from others.
At some point, the battle was going to be joined -- better now, than later.
Apple must have decided to go cheap on the imagery and the data because there is much better of both on nearly every other map source. Sad because they easily could have purchased the very best of both if they had wanted to.
Knowing Apple as many here do (Including you and me), I doubt they went cheap -- rather they went with expediency! I expect them to spend top dollars to have the best mapping solution out there, bar none. I'd give them a year to be competitive.
The Maps app can be tweaked with minor point upgrades to iOS 6 -- I expect one in less than 2 months.
The imagery and map data can be updated continuously regardless of the app or iOS version.
The fact that third parties have access to some mapping APIs, indicates that enhancements like public transportation can be added anytime -- like today, for instance,
This entire discussion reminds me of every time I've ever been involved in installing new systems anywhere. Users go crazy on day 1. "Nothing works... I can't do X... I can't do Y... The old system was so much easier... Whoever picked this system should be fired..." And so it goes for, always, at least the first few days, sometimes even weeks. The kinks get worked out. Turns out there is a better way to do X & Y, in one step, by just doing Z. (Or X & Y don't even exist any more, because the new system has a better way of doing things altogether.) After a few weeks or months, everyone thinks the new system is so much better, except a few diehards who simply can't deal with any change. The company moves on and wonders how they ever got anything done with the old system, the new one is so much better...
I think that's pretty much what we're going to see here with Maps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Just for fun:
iOS 6 Maps -- Yes Virginia, You Can Spin The Globe
The colors you see in the globe are obviously colored using simulations. I have studied the way those simulations work and it appears that they have done some pretty clever blending as you zoom in using terrain maps, complete with fake cirrus clouds. If there is no true color imagery they illustrate it in. It isn't until you really zoom in to like what Google would call level 9 or 10 do see actual photography in many place around the world. If that imagery is in grayscale they artificially color it. Once you are level 11+ you see the actual patchwork of the photos. I wish they had spent as much time and money to get high quality imagery in the first place rather than the smoke and mirrors they choose to use instead.
I actually didn't think of that up until I saw mention of it somewhere in a discussion. I suppose I simply assumed that Google Maps wouldn't be very well optimized for mobile devices, but in retrospect that was a little silly of me. I'll be doing just this for transit directions. Hopefully Google Maps comes out in the App Store. For most things, I'm actually really liking the update. I'm in a city that appears to be well-populated. Zooming and navigation are much smoother and the app is more enjoyable to use.
Should have worked with Google (use some of that money pile) to keep Google Maps in iOS, until iOS Maps is developed to the degree that some of the more glaring issues are worked out. Apple should have done anything and everything to avoid this PR nightmare.
I wonder who at Apple thought it was ok to release this app in its current state.
Whatever happened to "I love how Apple takes it's time perfecting a function before releasing something"? How many things were left out of the iPhone until Apple was sure they nailed it? This is very unApple like and people's frustrations are merited.
That historically has not been the Apple way.
I don't recall suggesting that people should report the problem, nor would I expect that to be a reasonable solution. But on the other hand, with a project of this scale, Apple does have to release at some stage of readiness which pales in comparison to Google while depending on users to evolve the data to the next level (presuming they actually do a decent job of following up on reported 'problems'). I'm not sure how realistic it would be to expect otherwise. That said, I think I agree that this particular update should have stayed in the oven for another year. But then again, I don't know anything about what the real circumstances behind Google Maps on iOS were.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan
Is anyone really surprised Apple maps 1.0 is not equal to Google Maps 6.0?
Give it a few months.. maybe even a year. With user feedback and resources focused on the Apple maps.. they will eventually catch up. I have no doubt a company with a $100 Billion in the bank.. can make a great map app.
I bet it gets there quicker than the Google alternative. It will have to.