the current agreement ran out -- it does not cover iOS 6 and iPhone 5 and later iDevices
Apple and Google tried to negotiate a new agreement
Apple wanted to use Google Turn-By-Turn and other new map features
Google wanted to include ads and wanted access to user data
neither party would yield
I think that this negotiation process has been on-going for several years -- with each side maneuvering for position.
Apple, seeing the handwriting on the wall, bought some mapping companies and licensed map data from others.
At some point, the battle was going to be joined -- better now, than later.
Apple must have decided to go cheap on the imagery and the data because there is much better of both on nearly every other map source. Sad because they easily could have purchased the very best of both if they had wanted to.
I have just started trying out this app. It pulls data from the iOS map app right now, which means Apple maps if you're on iOS 6, but they have an update submitted with apple which should be available about October 3rd and will pull in map data from google.
Just something to keep you going while Apple gets its house in order:
Google did not write the Map app on iOS, Apple did. The only thing Google did was provide the mapping data. That's it. It's up to Apple to update (or now replace) the app.
I've been predicting this since I started using iOS 6b1. I seem to recall getting blasted on this forum for saying that Apple's Maps was considerably below what Google offers in functionality. I seem to recall MacBook Pro was the most vocal in that regard. Now, many betas later and after it's release to the world I still wish Apple would have kept this under lock and key for another year so they could get it closer to what it needs to be.
Problem is... it needs to be in use by the public (actual users) to get better.
Dick, How does putting the app in the users' hands improve the satellite imagery? The images for my city in Central America which were perhaps 5 years old in the previous Map app are now ancient grayscale military aerial photos from the 50's.
I meant improving basic surface maps and search data.
I do not have an answer for satellite imagery. Except, I doubt that Google has its own satellites -- it must be relying on someone else to supply the images.
I expect that Apple can obtain satellite images from the same or other sources.
I suspect that iOS 6 Maps uses a different software mechanism than iOS 5 maps to store, generate and present its satellite images -- thus the difference in speed.
If the above is true, then it is only a matter of time and priorities to convert and update the imagery in iOS 6 Maps.
BTW, Search for places like Machu Picchu, Lake Titicaca or Nazca Lines and there isn't all that much difference between the two maps apps.
P.S. Lake Michigan is a clean... Lake Titicaca is a dirty..
BTW, Search for places like Machu Picchu, Lake Titicaca or Nazca Lines and there isn't all that much difference between the two maps apps.
I tried the first one. I puts the pointer about a kilometer away. OpenStreetMap and Google nails it right on. Bing maps you can't tell, there's no imagery.
Maps << everyone else. And as I noted earlier, this has been true for every search I've done. Sometimes only a little off, sometimes complete fail.
Source: Google Hopes To Have iOS Maps App In The App Store “Before Christmas”
It turns out it’s really hard to map the world. Along with their iOS 6 update, many amateur digital cartophiles were in for a rude awakening: Apple Maps, which looked so cool in Apple’s launch demo, are actually, and hilariously, a POS (Yes, I was wrong).
And, in releasing what is essentially a half-baked beta of this in its rush to be free of Google, Apple has also released a torrent of user criticism.
Digital maps are are obviously a difficult endeavor, and the data from OSM and Tom Tom leaves much to be desired here. But the failure is so glaring that even some Apple peeps are wondering when Google will release its standalone iOS Maps app, because using Google Maps on Safari is just sort of awkward. HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO NAVIGATE THE EARTH? Help us Google iOS Maps team, you are our only hope.
Debunking the diabolical theory that Google will take as long as it likes to release its Maps App, in an effort to convert people to Android, I’ve got a source telling me that the Google Maps team is taking this as a crisetunity, doubling down on staff, lining up the team and resources to have a standalone iOS app in the App store “before Christmas.” 9to5Mac is reporting that Google already has an iOS 6-ready app, and it’s waiting for Apple’s review.
I have read some of your comments, and I may speculate on the technology GPS vs AGPS
GPS is free we paid for the satelites orbiting, I have A garmin IQ3600 and the software
is not real time. I never paid for network access, However with Gmaps it will be updated
at regular intervals and with AGPS integrated to smart phone the triangulation of your
cell will superimpose to the free GPS satelites we have in orbit. that is why we use data.
Now Tom Tom is like garmin and if Tom Tom writes software for apple and uptades streets, buildings..etc.. at predetermined price. Then apple will charge you for alot of data that you would have got for cheaper price. With my Garmin IQ3600 I can update my software every year for
I have just started trying out this app. It pulls data from the iOS map app right now, which means Apple maps if you're on iOS 6, but they have an update submitted with apple which should be available about October 3rd and will pull in map data from google.
Just something to keep you going while Apple gets its house in order:
Setting aside my kneejerk "Ugh!" attitude to your praise of crowdsourcing (and why should I be Apple's free cartographer; I just want to *use* the map!), this is not simply about missing or broken data. For example look at the images of Bowling Green State University on that tumblr link - in the Google image, the building outlines and names are shown, as are footpaths. One source, all the info I need (were I to ever go to BGSU, that is...).
On the Apple map, all that's shown are surrounding streets (in a vibrant white-on-off-white scheme) and a big polygon labelled Bowling Green State University - with *zero* interior information. So if I want to go to a particular building on campus, Apple *might* get me there (if the data's right, and if I'm not using public transit), but then I'd have to open up the university's website and hunt for a map to find the building. This does not strike me as the sort of thing that "free crowdsourcing" is going to fix; this is a conscious decision to eliminate an entire class of data.
High Jeff,
I'm totally comfortable with Siri and Maps. They're on the scale and model of human evolution. They, as we all, will prove to be quicker learners than gory algorithms and 'extraordinarily private', privacy-probing institutions.
Coarse-graininess is the tax dependency levies on enfranchisement. It comes to pass, ...on a purely democratic time-frame.
Problem is... it needs to be in use by the public (actual users) to get better.
AS mstone states, that's don't fly. You and MacBook Pro have been defending FlyOver as being more useful than Street View in every way and yet it's not. Plain and simple. As I showed month ago you can't see writing on store fronts. You virtually go down a street. I'm sure FlyOver has its uses but they aren't not parallel to Street View.
There are nice features to iOS 6 Maps which I mentioned months ago. They are doing the right thing by making their apps, but it is not a finished product. Plain and simple.
This is not Siri, which actually does need users to become better. You can't understand cultural references, voice patterns, accents, and the innumerable things people might causally request without excessive sourcing. This is why it's in beta. Is iOS 6 Maps in beta? Not that I've seen, nor should it be because a proper product has access to lat and long, has access to business addresses and where they correlate on a map, and has the features that people use already built in.
Crowd sourcing plays no role in any of those basic features and functionality. Is my iPhone going to secretly record video when I'm walking down the sidewalk so they can splice in Street View? Where is the FlyOver in more than a few places. AT&T has more LTE coverage than Apple has FlyOver locations (OK, I just made that one up, but it could be true).
There is potential there but they should have waited another year before releasing this unfinished product. We rightfully pooh-pooh other companies for bringing to market half-baked projected so why does Apple get a pass here? This is not up to their usual level.
I have a crazy idea. Let's allow consumers to decide.
I am a consumer and made a decision. I also wrote extensively as to how I came to my decision. It wasn't emotional. It wasn't flippant. It was as objective and critical as I could possibly be and I determined exactly how people would feel about their Maps app if they didn't get a bunch of things resolved. So far, the only thing they have resolved is making it faster than iOS 5 Maps on an iPhone 4.
The now unfortunate thing about Apple - they don't like to play with others. By corraling their technology system... They essentially kill innovation. Think $100 billion would fix it? Ask the government. Resources alone doesn't make a company more innovate or able to perfect a technology.
Google pretty much owns maps. And right behind them... Is Nokia.
Your comment looks absolutely backwards to me. Apple moved to using OSM, an open standard. If they add data to OSM, they are providing it as open source. Google on the other hand has built their own mapping system and apparently is keeping it proprietary. They are in the business of collecting and controlling data, and they are doing the same thing with their maps.
The map app is a simply a container for the OSM initiative, with innovation built into the imaging side of things. Unfortunately, the current data is not as good as Google's but the hope of open source to marshall legions of people to work towards improving the maps could lead to quick improvement since the research will be distributed among the open source community, as opposed to having a single profit driven company control what areas get mapped. And fwiw, any resources that Apple uses to improve OSM will benefit the whole OSM initiative, not just a single company.
btw, while there is may be privacy concerns over the way that Google acquires and catalogs the data collected while mapping, it is also important to note that they are looking for ways to monetize that data, http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/09/google-maps-api-vs-openstreetmap/
Comments
Does anyone know how, we the users, can help to improve iOS maps?
I realize that we can't help with satellite imagery, but are there other deliberate ways we can help?...is there a type of help/feedback system?
Or does Apple just mine some of the data "automatically" from our daily usage?
Millions of iOS users are probably open to helping improve the maps, so what could we do to expedite?
And if there are deliberate methods to improve it, maybe the iOS community (or Apple) should shout those methods out via whatever media possible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
If I were to guess, knowing the parties involved:
the current agreement ran out -- it does not cover iOS 6 and iPhone 5 and later iDevices
Apple and Google tried to negotiate a new agreement
Apple wanted to use Google Turn-By-Turn and other new map features
Google wanted to include ads and wanted access to user data
neither party would yield
I think that this negotiation process has been on-going for several years -- with each side maneuvering for position.
Apple, seeing the handwriting on the wall, bought some mapping companies and licensed map data from others.
At some point, the battle was going to be joined -- better now, than later.
Apple must have decided to go cheap on the imagery and the data because there is much better of both on nearly every other map source. Sad because they easily could have purchased the very best of both if they had wanted to.
redacted
Originally Posted by allmypeople
Even if it meant holding off Maps until iOS7...
So having NO maps in iOS 6 would have been better than this? Really?
This has nothing to do with money. This has nothing to do with one person's subjective snuff.
Just something to keep you going while Apple gets its house in order:
http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/streetviewer/id491629584?mt=8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So having NO maps in iOS 6 would have been better than this? Really?
This has nothing to do with money. This has nothing to do with one person's subjective snuff.
Yep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe
Google did not write the Map app on iOS, Apple did. The only thing Google did was provide the mapping data. That's it. It's up to Apple to update (or now replace) the app.
Someone in my office pointed me to this.
http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/
Mapgate 2012.
What are you talking? Apple write another Map app to replace the one it created?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I've been predicting this since I started using iOS 6b1. I seem to recall getting blasted on this forum for saying that Apple's Maps was considerably below what Google offers in functionality. I seem to recall MacBook Pro was the most vocal in that regard. Now, many betas later and after it's release to the world I still wish Apple would have kept this under lock and key for another year so they could get it closer to what it needs to be.
Problem is... it needs to be in use by the public (actual users) to get better.
Dick, How does putting the app in the users' hands improve the satellite imagery? The images for my city in Central America which were perhaps 5 years old in the previous Map app are now ancient grayscale military aerial photos from the 50's.
I meant improving basic surface maps and search data.
I do not have an answer for satellite imagery. Except, I doubt that Google has its own satellites -- it must be relying on someone else to supply the images.
I expect that Apple can obtain satellite images from the same or other sources.
I suspect that iOS 6 Maps uses a different software mechanism than iOS 5 maps to store, generate and present its satellite images -- thus the difference in speed.
If the above is true, then it is only a matter of time and priorities to convert and update the imagery in iOS 6 Maps.
BTW, Search for places like Machu Picchu, Lake Titicaca or Nazca Lines and there isn't all that much difference between the two maps apps.
P.S. Lake Michigan is a clean... Lake Titicaca is a dirty..
September 20, 2013.
Save the date. We'll all come back here and see who was right about Apple's maps.
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
BTW, Search for places like Machu Picchu, Lake Titicaca or Nazca Lines and there isn't all that much difference between the two maps apps.
I tried the first one. I puts the pointer about a kilometer away. OpenStreetMap and Google nails it right on. Bing maps you can't tell, there's no imagery.
Maps << everyone else. And as I noted earlier, this has been true for every search I've done. Sometimes only a little off, sometimes complete fail.
All the bitching will end soon, Tallest Skill
Quote:
Source: Google Hopes To Have iOS Maps App In The App Store “Before Christmas”
It turns out it’s really hard to map the world. Along with their iOS 6 update, many amateur digital cartophiles were in for a rude awakening: Apple Maps, which looked so cool in Apple’s launch demo, are actually, and hilariously, a POS (Yes, I was wrong).
And, in releasing what is essentially a half-baked beta of this in its rush to be free of Google, Apple has also released a torrent of user criticism.
Digital maps are are obviously a difficult endeavor, and the data from OSM and Tom Tom leaves much to be desired here. But the failure is so glaring that even some Apple peeps are wondering when Google will release its standalone iOS Maps app, because using Google Maps on Safari is just sort of awkward. HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO NAVIGATE THE EARTH? Help us Google iOS Maps team, you are our only hope.
Debunking the diabolical theory that Google will take as long as it likes to release its Maps App, in an effort to convert people to Android, I’ve got a source telling me that the Google Maps team is taking this as a crisetunity, doubling down on staff, lining up the team and resources to have a standalone iOS app in the App store “before Christmas.” 9to5Mac is reporting that Google already has an iOS 6-ready app, and it’s waiting for Apple’s review.
http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/20/crap-maps/
I have read some of your comments, and I may speculate on the technology GPS vs AGPS
GPS is free we paid for the satelites orbiting, I have A garmin IQ3600 and the software
is not real time. I never paid for network access, However with Gmaps it will be updated
at regular intervals and with AGPS integrated to smart phone the triangulation of your
cell will superimpose to the free GPS satelites we have in orbit. that is why we use data.
Now Tom Tom is like garmin and if Tom Tom writes software for apple and uptades streets, buildings..etc.. at predetermined price. Then apple will charge you for alot of data that you would have got for cheaper price. With my Garmin IQ3600 I can update my software every year for
39.49 CDN and any new locations will be udated.
Tom
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedney
I have just started trying out this app. It pulls data from the iOS map app right now, which means Apple maps if you're on iOS 6, but they have an update submitted with apple which should be available about October 3rd and will pull in map data from google.
Just something to keep you going while Apple gets its house in order:
http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/streetviewer/id491629584?mt=8
I just tried it... searched for London UK and I have a street view of Trafalgar -- Lord Nelson never looked better!
Picasso in Chicago also looks good!
This is a great app -- maybe Apple should buy it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierrajeff
Setting aside my kneejerk "Ugh!" attitude to your praise of crowdsourcing (and why should I be Apple's free cartographer; I just want to *use* the map!), this is not simply about missing or broken data. For example look at the images of Bowling Green State University on that tumblr link - in the Google image, the building outlines and names are shown, as are footpaths. One source, all the info I need (were I to ever go to BGSU, that is...).
On the Apple map, all that's shown are surrounding streets (in a vibrant white-on-off-white scheme) and a big polygon labelled Bowling Green State University - with *zero* interior information. So if I want to go to a particular building on campus, Apple *might* get me there (if the data's right, and if I'm not using public transit), but then I'd have to open up the university's website and hunt for a map to find the building. This does not strike me as the sort of thing that "free crowdsourcing" is going to fix; this is a conscious decision to eliminate an entire class of data.
High Jeff,
I'm totally comfortable with Siri and Maps. They're on the scale and model of human evolution. They, as we all, will prove to be quicker learners than gory algorithms and 'extraordinarily private', privacy-probing institutions.
Coarse-graininess is the tax dependency levies on enfranchisement. It comes to pass, ...on a purely democratic time-frame.
Thanks.
I have no idea what you just said.
I used Nokia Maps
Originally Posted by Sierrajeff
I have no idea what you just said.
His post was an interesting read. More verbose than I've heard in a while, but refreshing to see.
To paraphrase, "The solutions put forth by Apple in both mapping and AI will surpass those of Google due to their inherently better design models."
As for the coarse-graniness bit, I've no clue.
EDIT: Oh, I think I get that part now. But I'm not sure how it applies to the above.
AS mstone states, that's don't fly. You and MacBook Pro have been defending FlyOver as being more useful than Street View in every way and yet it's not. Plain and simple. As I showed month ago you can't see writing on store fronts. You virtually go down a street. I'm sure FlyOver has its uses but they aren't not parallel to Street View.
There are nice features to iOS 6 Maps which I mentioned months ago. They are doing the right thing by making their apps, but it is not a finished product. Plain and simple.
This is not Siri, which actually does need users to become better. You can't understand cultural references, voice patterns, accents, and the innumerable things people might causally request without excessive sourcing. This is why it's in beta. Is iOS 6 Maps in beta? Not that I've seen, nor should it be because a proper product has access to lat and long, has access to business addresses and where they correlate on a map, and has the features that people use already built in.
Crowd sourcing plays no role in any of those basic features and functionality. Is my iPhone going to secretly record video when I'm walking down the sidewalk so they can splice in Street View? Where is the FlyOver in more than a few places. AT&T has more LTE coverage than Apple has FlyOver locations (OK, I just made that one up, but it could be true).
There is potential there but they should have waited another year before releasing this unfinished product. We rightfully pooh-pooh other companies for bringing to market half-baked projected so why does Apple get a pass here? This is not up to their usual level.
I am a consumer and made a decision. I also wrote extensively as to how I came to my decision. It wasn't emotional. It wasn't flippant. It was as objective and critical as I could possibly be and I determined exactly how people would feel about their Maps app if they didn't get a bunch of things resolved. So far, the only thing they have resolved is making it faster than iOS 5 Maps on an iPhone 4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
September 20, 2013.
Save the date. We'll all come back here and see who was right about Apple's maps.
Who's bringing the drinks? And I have dibs on the chair, my back hurts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxoM3
The now unfortunate thing about Apple - they don't like to play with others. By corraling their technology system... They essentially kill innovation. Think $100 billion would fix it? Ask the government. Resources alone doesn't make a company more innovate or able to perfect a technology.
Google pretty much owns maps. And right behind them... Is Nokia.
Your comment looks absolutely backwards to me. Apple moved to using OSM, an open standard. If they add data to OSM, they are providing it as open source. Google on the other hand has built their own mapping system and apparently is keeping it proprietary. They are in the business of collecting and controlling data, and they are doing the same thing with their maps.
The map app is a simply a container for the OSM initiative, with innovation built into the imaging side of things. Unfortunately, the current data is not as good as Google's but the hope of open source to marshall legions of people to work towards improving the maps could lead to quick improvement since the research will be distributed among the open source community, as opposed to having a single profit driven company control what areas get mapped. And fwiw, any resources that Apple uses to improve OSM will benefit the whole OSM initiative, not just a single company.
btw, while there is may be privacy concerns over the way that Google acquires and catalogs the data collected while mapping, it is also important to note that they are looking for ways to monetize that data, http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/09/google-maps-api-vs-openstreetmap/
Originally Posted by Sierrajeff
Who's bringing the drinks? And I have dibs on the chair, my back hurts.
*snap* I knew we should have planned for more than one chair…