Apple CEO Tim Cook apologizes to customers for Maps in iOS 6

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  • Reply 61 of 381


    Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

    Oh man, in for an epic thread.


     


    Tallest Skil, why don't you have a seat over there image



     


    I don't get the reference to me.


     


    This letter should not exist. What kind of idiot tells people to use a competitor's product when they need users to improve their own? 





    Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post

    It could be argued that this was about making the most money.


     


    Fine; explain this using some sort of logic.


     



    Originally Posted by Lerxt View Post

    Classless response. The classy thing todo would be to pull it and put google maps back on. I'm not buying iPhone 5 till they do


     


    So you're going to buy an iPhone today, then. Because Google Maps has been available since launch day. Unless, of course, you demand that be its own application, in which case enjoy never owning an iPhone again.

  • Reply 62 of 381

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lerxt View Post



    Classless response. The classy thing todo would be to pull it and put google maps back on. I'm not buying iPhone 5 till they do


     


     


    Awesome. One less pre-order to slow my wife and daughters iPhone 5 from getting here sooner.

  • Reply 63 of 381

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MoXoM View Post



    lol!

    Just let us download the fully working version of Google Maps that we had from iOS 5....




    It's up to Google to make an app. Apple is not going to make Google's app for them.


     


    And no, they cant just release the "old" app, it's now using their own MapKit and available as a standard app.

  • Reply 64 of 381
    For what? Google has few options.

    They can charge for their app and pay Apple 30%, they can make it free, they can decide to not make an app.

    In any case, Google lost a huge chunk from their mobile ad revenue. It's up to them to loose dozens of millions of iOS users and their position or to lose all of them. Apple played very well.


    Interesting post.

    Apple stops licensing google maps
    Apple saves on licensing fees
    Google loses huge slice of revenue from licensing
    Google looses millions of google map users therefore a huge chunk of ad revenue gone
    Google can put maps on app store for free - benefits apple because now its free
    Google puts maps on app store for free - benefits customer
    Google puts maps on app store but charges - apple then automatically receives 30% cut
    Google doesn't make app for iOS - googles loss
    Apple users migrate to android... Shitty way to go but exactly how many will do that?
    Apple users buy an additional android device just for maps - so they can still enjoy iOS

    I think it's a Win for Apple and a smart move to have released Apple Maps just that the damn thing would work. Maybe in time... I suspect apple is piling its resources into this...there's got be loads of apple staff high on caffeine right now.

    I'm still pissed they released a sub par product
  • Reply 65 of 381
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    lerxt wrote: »
    Classless response. The classy thing todo would be to pull it and put google maps back on. I'm not buying iPhone 5 till they do

    OK. Don't buy an iPhone. No one really cares.
    rogifan wrote: »
    Hmm....not sure what I think about this. Cook apologizing and telling users to use a competitors product is a bit embarrassing.
    Once you start apologizing where does it stop? Already there's clowns out there asking when Apple is going to apologize for "scuff gate" and ear pods that don't fit their ears. This is one of the curses of being at the top (in terms of market cap and profits). Everyone and their mother wants to bring you down. And every mistake or imperfection gets blown up like crazy.
    I read dozens of iPhone 5 reviews, some prior to launch and most after launch, and there was one, maybe two at most, that mentioned anything about a scuffed phone. Yet we have scuff gate and people wanting Cook to apologize for it. I'm seeing complaints that the phone is too thin and light and thus feels cheap. Yet earlier this year when the new iPad came out people bitched because it was ever so slightly thicker and heavier. Now they're bitching that the iPhone is too light. No matter what Apple does these days someone will complain about it.

    The problem is that all the Applegate crap puts Apple into a tough situation. The media has learned that there's nothing that generates hits (read: revenues) faster than fabricating some Apple scandal. There are plenty of people who want to make Apple look bad and the "problem" spreads like wild fire. And since the first one to report it gets most of the credit, there's nothing to be gained by delaying. As soon as you get the least hint of a problem, you go public with it.

    If they do nothing, they are attacked for ignoring the "problem".

    If they do what Jobs did on the antenna issue (pointing out that every phone does the same thing), they are attacked for being arrogant and trying to deflect 'legitimate' criticism onto their competitors.

    If they do what Cook just did and acknowledge that their product is not perfect, then people come out of the woodwork screaming that it's a steaming pile of dung (which is not, of course, what Cook said, at all).

    I think Daekwan has it right:
    Daekwan wrote: »
    I agree that Cook acted like a CEO should.  He addressed the problem, before it turned into a much bigger and negative situation.  That is PR rule#1.  Acknowledge it, then show your plan to fix it.  That wipes out all of the fear mongering and woulda/coulda/shoulda publicity behind the problem.

    Reality is the maps work fine for most people.  Navigation works incredibly well with TomTom street information provided.  There are plenty of 3rd party apps to use if you cant find something.  Google maps is still available in a mobile version by visiting maps.google.com in a browser. Media/TechBlog/Review sites need some controversial material to attract visitors.  Its Apple so people will make a big deal out of any changes they do.  

    But just like the new lightning connector, a year from now the amount of over reaction to their changes will be a forgotten issue. 

    I think you're right. Of the possible scenarios, the one most likely to make it go away is to say "we know it's not perfect and here's what we're doing to make it better".

    I still would like to see someone actually do an analysis as to what percentage of the addresses is wrong on both Apple's and Google's systems.
  • Reply 66 of 381
    I don't think that Tim Cook/Apple made a mistake though. It's a brand new app which is a heap younger than Google's previous app. So it is understandable that they have to start from scratch and that that means having more irregularities in your map-data.

    But I do respect the apology and promise that they're doubling down on getting the quality up to Apple's standards. I can't wait to see what Maps is going to be like in, say, half a year from now :)
  • Reply 67 of 381
    arthur123 wrote: »
    So Jeff what are you saying. Tim Cook wants the Apple iphone users to be the beta testers for this not ready for prime time mapping program?
    If that is the case they should have included it as a bonus program as part of OS6 and still given users full access to Google maps.
    As an Apple stock holder his apology means nothing. Its offering me a drink with an empty glass.
    If he truly wants people to move forward he needs to bring back the Google App period end of story.

    It's a good thing stock holders have no say in Apples plans.
    Since you have no trust in Apple you should sell your stock immediately.

    J.
  • Reply 68 of 381
    pg4gpg4g Posts: 383member


    The issues with the maps app have nothing to do with the App itself, overlord. Its the fact that the data that it downloads isn't a completely accurate, and completely foolproof mapping solution. That is downloaded, and Apple won't discriminate over devices: the data it uses for the new OS should be the same data they use for iOS 6, for all time.


     


    Has Apple made a sub-par mapping solution? Yes. Could that be avoided? Doubtful. Maps of the entire world are extremely, extremely complicated, and Google Maps was nowhere near this good at the start. Over time, problems were reported, and their maps became more accurate. The same holds true for Apple's Maps backend now: It needs users to pick up on the issues they'd never find themselves. Its remarkable they've been able to do as well as they have. Is it up to par? Perhaps not from a consumer's expectation, but its understandable why not.


     


    The media, however, will jump on any opportunity to criticise anything regarding Apple. If someone sneezes in an Apple Store, there will be a headline tomorrow that Apple is now pumping the flu virus through their air conditioners. Its an easy way to get page views, and to get people to watch the news. Sad, but true.


     


    As for "why don't you just give us the old Maps back"? The old Maps had a foundational layer known as MapKit supporting it. MapKit was based on data handed by Google. It was built into the OS - not the App. That is how Apple allowed maps to become embedded in other apps. MapKit was moved over to Apple Maps. The App itself was redesigned at the same time, but that was largely separate to the Apple Maps issues, which are in MapKit, and Apple's Maps. Apple can't release the old Maps App - it would use Apple Maps, just looking like the old app. The problem isn't solved. They would need to re-engineer an entirely new mapping framework into a new version of the app that replicates the functionality.


     


    To put it simply: Its not the Maps App that has changed, its the OS beneath it. Handing the old Maps App back to us won't change anything. Only changing the entire OS back to Google Maps would fix this.


     


    And that's something Apple won't do. They want to better their own maps, not give up all together.

  • Reply 69 of 381

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    ... I'm seeing complaints that the phone is too thin and light and thus feels cheap. Yet earlier this year when the new iPad came out people bitched because it was ever so slightly thicker and heavier. Now they're bitching that the iPhone is too light...


     


    I find the weight complaints to be crazy, that now we are saying something having heft makes it higher quality.  It reminds me of the luxury automakers who used to put weights in the door so they would have a more solid feel.  Yet now they are all about reducing weight for fuel economy.  Your right in that people are going to complain about everything.  The phone is a solid chunk of metal with one of the strongest screens available, and quality compoments.  How anyone can complain that it doesn't feel like a premium product is beyond me.  There is no flex and the gaps are almost non-existant.  I think I am going to make lead lined case called the iWeight for those who would rather have the phone feel like a brick in their pockets.

  • Reply 70 of 381

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    So you're going to buy an iPhone today, then. Because Google Maps has been available since launch day. Unless, of course, you demand that be its own application, in which case enjoy never owning an iPhone again.



     


    I am truly asking this question in a sincere way.  You want evidence for many things and logical arguments.  I am assuming you have a logical argument and evidence to support that there will never be a standalone Google Maps app on iPhone.  Given the number of map apps on the App Store, I for one think there will be...eventually.  


     


    So is your thinking Google won't release one?  I could see that happening.  


     


    Or do you  think Apple will reject the app? I find that unlikely given the firestorm that usually erupts and the number of Google apps Apple has already approved (include the somewhat suckish YouTube app).


     


    EDIT:


    I could care less if there is a Google Maps app on iPhone, for the record.  I just want to know what I am missing...

  • Reply 71 of 381

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


     


    People who use the phrase "Apple fanboys" in posts here are the really pathetic ones. It's a sure sign that your own psychological problems have driven you to AI to try to compensate for your own shortcomings.



     




    So you are calling him out for saying something that is true?  If you think there are not "Apple fanboys" on here then you are being lumped into that group because you are closing your eyes/mind to the obvious truth.  Android, WP, BB and iOS all have their supporters and then they have their rabid fans.  When you ignore the extremists and don't call them out on the stuff they do, you run the risk of them being the public support of your favourite product and no one wants that.  Idiots about in all parts of life and it's up to others to call them out on it.


     


    On topic though, I'm a former iPhone person but now use WP and Android for my own reasons and while I'm not a big fan of the iOS environment, I understand that Apple is following what it thinks it the best course of action in the long term.  While Apple has a history of not admitting to mistakes and blaming others when called out (antennae gate), I have to say that this is a step in the right direction for Apple.  Tim did a classy thing here and I actually have to commend him from breaking with tradition here.


     


    Fact of the matter is, that iOS Maps was not ready for the prime time and if it was a beta, it should have been labelled as such.  Sure if works in the US for most people but just remember that you are only 330 million people vs the other 6.7+ billion.  Apple is known for making incredibly refined and user friendly apps and for them to deliver this is something people are not used to, nor expect from Apple.  Tim did the right thing in apologizing here because it goes against Apple's goals.  Personally, I think they should drop the public vendetta against Google because it makes them look childish and not very responsible.  If I had stock, I would say "Stop the name calling and punching and get back to leading by example".


     


    Apple maps will evolve and someday it will be viable for everyone but for now, it's a black eye but they will recover.  That's all there is to say really. 

  • Reply 72 of 381

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dolphyjazz View Post



    It's about time. Apple maps just plain sucks. I've been an apple fan for a long time and enjoy using their desktop os and laptops, but their mobile offerings are just not comparable to android powered devices. Worst part is that they choose to be shitty because they're pissed at Google.


     You really think this is about just being "pissed" at Google because of something personal? Its about wanting to provide their users with a better experience than Google was willing to provide (e.g. Turn by Turn). Google was unfairly (IMO) trying to strong arm Apple and it's users by not providing us with an inferior product than they were using themselves in their own, competing product. I'm actually a bit upset that Google was treating me unfairly, not giving me the same equal opportunity that they gave their android users. THAT is greed.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post




    yes and Google didn't want to bring it to iOS unless it received branding and user data for Google services for a price.



     


    Oh and this too ^^^

  • Reply 73 of 381

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rednival View Post


     


    I am truly asking this question in a sincere way.  You want evidence for many things and logical arguments.  I am assuming you have a logical argument and evidence to support that there will never be a standalone Google Maps app on iPhone.  Given the number of map apps on the App Store, I for one think there will be...eventually.  


     


    So is your thinking Google won't release one?  I could see that happening.  


     


    Or do you  think Apple will reject the app? I find that unlikely given the firestorm that usually erupts and the number of Google apps Apple has already approved (include the somewhat suckish YouTube app).


     


    EDIT:


    I could care less if there is a Google Maps app on iPhone, for the record.  I just want to know what I am missing...



     


    I know you're not asking me this question, but I believe they WILL release a Google Maps App in iOS...but not for a long time.  By the time it's "ready" and "approved" this will all be in the past, and Apple's own maps app will be iOS users first choice.  Just like in Android, how many people actually download 3rd party apps?  I don't have numbers, but I suspect it's a very very low %


     


    Like you, I don't care if they do or not, i'm quite happy with iOS maps and turn by turn.  Just my .02

  • Reply 74 of 381


    Originally Posted by rednival View Post

    …there will never be a standalone Google Maps app on iPhone.


     


    Not made by Apple, there won't.


     



    I could care less if there is a Google Maps app on iPhone, for the record.  I just want to know what I am missing...



     


    Buy an iPhone, actually use Apple Maps, and find out!

  • Reply 75 of 381
    flabber wrote: »
    I don't think that Tim Cook/Apple made a mistake though. It's a brand new app which is a heap younger than Google's previous app. So it is understandable that they have to start from scratch and that that means having more irregularities in your map-data.
    But I do respect the apology and promise that they're doubling down on getting the quality up to Apple's standards. I can't wait to see what Maps is going to be like in, say, half a year from now :)

    I agree. That's a positive and realistic attitude towards Apple maps.
    Maybe Apple launches its own satellite(s) and gets ultra high definition (and same color tone) images of the earth; it will blow the competition away.
    The future will be bright.

    J.
  • Reply 76 of 381
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,652member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post





    Yes, very well stated. I forgot about the 30%. Apple has Google in a corner, that's for sure.


    Not if they make it a free app.    Customers who want it get what they had before and Google protects its advertising revenue.    Consumers have a choice, Apple will be encouraged even more to continuously improve the app and everybody wins.     I understand and think it's legit that Apple developed their own app to get turn-by-turn and I understand Google's reluctance to give it to them so they can save it for their Android platform.   But Apple should not attempt to win the marketplace by forcing out other apps - they should win by putting quality in the marketplace.   

  • Reply 77 of 381

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Not made by Apple, there won't.


     


     



     


    Ah, well I agree 100% with that and people expecting that are...well...not thinking clearly (nicest possible words I could come up with).

  • Reply 79 of 381

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by na1ya View Post


    "The more our customers use our Maps the better it will get"


     


    I don't understand. If we keep using Maps, the image on the right will gradually become the image on the left? How is that possible?



     


    Google spent 7 years improving maps.  hundreds of human beings at Google are constantly tweaking images.   Every complaint about maps is looked at by the team.   Gov'ts can obscure or limit visibility/zoomin of certain strategic locations... people do that.  


     


    'defects' like these require someone to call them to attention.


     


    Since 2010, you could log into google and submit 'edits' to their maps as a mere mortal, and crowdsourcing (if you claim expertise and have submitted accurate updates, you can 'review/approve' other people's submissions... sort of like 'karma' in Slashdot;-).


     


    If I were Apple, I'd put a <improve this> button on the app UI, and have that capture the current image, and a comment from the user, and put a team of people looking at their maps, paper maps and other orgs maps (google), to verify the change, and then change it, and then  provide a 'notification' (if requested) if your request has been accepted.  Instant 'Apple is invested in you the Maps user' karma.

  • Reply 80 of 381
    Well, I should report that iOS 6's maps can finally return a result when I search for my street, which has been charted on the map since day 1 in the beta, BUT only if I type its name with a cedilla and a circumflex to match the exact spelling (this street is named after a city in Mozambique; my entire neighborhood's streets are named after cities in Africa, meaning lots of non-ASCII characters in street names), and EVEN THEN it still points to a location like 3 kilometers away from where I live (and 3 kilometers away from the place where the street is charted on the map, demonstrating lack of parity between the map and the database). Forget about abbreviations, incorrect spelling, or missing accentuation marks; any of those will still cause the search to fail. The fact that an app is pushed to production in this state is a demonstration of pure incompetence, I wouldn't even accept this from a newbie developer.

    EDIT: Added trivia about my 'hood's street names.
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