This all sounds highly implausible. If Google had an army of astroturfers, you'd expect at least one to go rogue and tell the press. That's how Microsoft and other companies got found out.
You have zero evidence to back this up as far as I can tell.
Well, it's good to see you admit that this can be standard practice with some companies. But, if the army of astroturfers is spread around in various 2nd and 3rd-world countries -- and it's ridiculously easy to make it appear they are using IPs in this country, or anywhere, for that matter -- exactly what press would they go to? Or, maybe these are just those rogue contractors Google is always having trouble with, like the "Indian contractors" who pulled the Kenyan scam. Funny, none of them went to the press, did they?
These articles prove that for areas where the data exists and is accurate, iOS 6 maps are competitive, and will likely evolve into the category leader.
It still doesn't change the fact however, that all you Americans doing your web reports and blogs about maps are looking at things through the wrong end of a telescope. With few exceptions, when you step across the US border ... almost all the data is pure shit.
I live in switzerland which is, in case you don't know, a few steps plus a few strokes through water outside the US border. And at least the few places I checked are quite accurate.
Some POI's are a little off maybe 10-30 meters. But that's OK as long as they keep improving.
Except the data and the imagery is were the puck used to be about 5 years ago.
According to some evidence we've seen in this very thread, Google's data and imagery are also where the puck was 5 years ago. Unless you can actually produce some valid evidence that objectively supports that Google's data and imagery actually are better than Apple's, and quantifies how much better (or worse), overall, you have to simply admit that you are parroting unsubstantiated assertions.
You should also keep in mind that The Great One didn't always have the puck in his possession, often up until the last moment before he scored.
I never liked street view, it was way too slow at moving down the street to see the necessary details. I would say it was more of a neat thing than useful.
Speaking of the GPS on the iPhone. Once your route is loaded it will still follow your location via the GPS and update the map and TbT at the appropriate times. I tested this with Verizon on LTE, hence no SV&D, and it worked great so those wondering about not being able to not use Maps while on the phone need not worry. Of course, the one caveat is that you can't deviate from your path too much because only the route and some surrounding areas will be cached.
Yeah I just tried it and I get nothing but blurry pixels too.
"blurry" suggest you're talking about the satellite data, not the map per se.
Daniel isn't suggesting that the PNGs or JPGs are all cached too is he? I'm pretty sure that would be inaccurate.
No it is not the imagery. I loaded a street map of SoCal and panned around zoomed in and out and then turned on Airplane mode like the previous poster. Then when I tried to view the STREET MAP of a near by area I got nothing but empty squares. If I zoomed out I saw a map of the continent but when zooming in the blurry pixels were the only representation available. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong but I was unable to view any detail "down to Peru" as the article stated - in fact I could not even see San Diego which is only 75 miles from here.
There's nothing at all gained from middle-school name-calling like Fanboy, Scamdung, or even troll and shill. Even a 15-year old can. . . well, act like a 15-year old. I assume most of us are adults and left the playground long ago. If you want you opinion taken seriously you're handicapping yourself by tossing in juvenile ad-homs. An intelligent response is almost never made more effective with profanity or name-calling so why stoop to a 15-year old's level?
Except the data and the imagery is were the puck used to be about 5 years ago.
According to some evidence we've seen in this very thread, Google's data and imagery are also where the puck was 5 years ago. Unless you can actually produce some valid evidence that objectively supports that Google's data and imagery actually are better than Apple's, and quantifies how much better (or worse), overall, you have to simply admit that you are parroting unsubstantiated assertions.
You should also keep in mind that The Great One didn't always have the puck in his possession, often up until the last moment before he scored.
My comments are based on my own observation of the maps in my own neighborhoods. Although I made no reference to Google now that you bring it up, their imagery data is substantially higher resolution and years more current than the Apple versions. If you would like, I can PM to you the GPS coordinates of the areas I'm referring to so that you can make your own evaluation.
My comments are based on my own observation of the maps in my own neighborhoods. Although I made no reference to Google now that you bring it up, their imagery data is substantially higher resolution and years more current than the Apple versions. If you would like, I can PM to you the GPS coordinates of the areas I'm referring to so that you can make your own evaluation.
That's exactly the point. Your comments are simply subjective anecdotes. Without an objective comparison, like this,
The successful implementation of Apple Maps relied on a quick and massive move away from the original Maps App, a turn-around made possible by a causal drift from iOS5 to iOS6...itself sparked by the mythical iPhone5 highly anticipated introduction. A precious window of opportunity was opening up to endow Siri with a native pair of legs, a set of original wheels, and compasses...moral and physical...for equally good measures.
It' s a simple, but heart-wrenching trade-off. You give yourself a fighting chance for your medium and long term competitiveness-enhancing endeavor to succeed, ...at the costs of short-term competitiveness and a spun-off dent in your reputation. As much as I value ethical practices above all, medium-term...AI-based-platform survivability, ...and relative evolution, trump humility and Apple's ethical orthodoxy. In this particular, and isolated instance.
You give up some of your moral ascendancy, ...and all of Google's serendipitous roadmap, for a future groundswell of well-oriented handclaps. For Apple to have been prematurely voluble and transparent would have slowed to a crawl, and thus gravely imperiled, usage-centric, Maps/Siri-platform development...
...and Google...consorts...and proxies reacted as drug-dealers do when you cut their go-to market...by their better half.
@LtC.data - I don't think it matters. vector based maps are pretty small.. couple hundred K per tile. your phone has to be pretty desperate to have to reclaim a couple megs.
additionally, ios returns resources after non use (the oldest data in RAM).. so as long as you keep using maps (after a little game playing), it should hold on to the data. the app on the farthest right (keep swiping) of the multi-task bar will be the first to give up the ghost.
I added the google maps web shortcut to my home screen. it asked me if I wanted to give the "app" 50MB of storage. Apple may use this mechanic and not even ask (since it's not 3rd party)
The flack maps has gotten is despicable and insane, and has really made me lose faith in humanity. What a bunch of whiny, entitled, spoiled brats we've become. There are so many incredibly impressive things about this product, and what Apple has managed to accomplish at LAUNCH is positive insane. I can't believe flyover is now mocked and defined as 'garbage' and 'crap' because of people desperately looking for the worst looking stuff at the worst angles, ignoring the fact that 99% of the time it looks stunning. I've browsed 20 cities in 3D and my mind gets numb trying to imagine the level of work that must have taken, as well as the technical ability, algorithms, etc to make the 3D look near photo realistic. We're talking entire cities rendered, with residential areas, not just the core downtown. The cartography is gorgeous. Vector maps cache brilliantly and are incredibly well designed. Turn by turn has been flawless in my experience. Yes, there's missing/wrong data which there inevitably will be. But the fact that Apple hasn't gotten a shred of credit for the package, which in many ways is superior to Google maps (design of cartography, flyover, turn by turn interface, caching, iconography, etc) from a company that has never been in the mapping business, is just depressing.
Yeah, lets bitch and mock imperfections when an entire city is being rendered in 3D, while the competition is using flat jpegs, thats not petty or anything. Just imagine the bandwidth costs Apple is incurring for this compared to flat tiles. Its insanely ambitious.
The flack maps has gotten is despicable and insane, and has really made me lose faith in humanity. What a bunch of whiny, entitled, spoiled brats we've become. There are so many incredibly impressive things about this product, and what Apple has managed to accomplish at LAUNCH is positive insane. I can't believe flyover is now mocked and defined as 'garbage' and 'crap' because of people desperately looking for the worst looking stuff at the worst angles, ignoring the fact that 99% of the time it looks stunning. I've browsed 20 cities in 3D and my mind gets numb trying to imagine the level of work that must have taken, as well as the technical ability, algorithms, etc to make the 3D look near photo realistic. We're talking entire cities rendered, with residential areas, not just the core downtown. The cartography is gorgeous. Vector maps cache brilliantly and are incredibly well designed. Turn by turn has been flawless in my experience. Yes, there's missing/wrong data which there inevitably will be. But the fact that Apple hasn't gotten a shred of credit for the package, which in many ways is superior to Google maps (design of cartography, flyover, turn by turn interface, caching, iconography, etc) from a company that has never been in the mapping business, is just depressing.
Yeah, lets bitch and mock imperfections when an entire city is being rendered in 3D, while the competition is using flat jpegs, thats not petty or anything. Just imagine the bandwidth costs Apple is incurring for this compared to flat tiles. Its insanely ambitious.
The problem is there are more Apple Haters than lovers. There are mega corps who want to see Apple fail. This was a successful campaign. Kinda like politics but worst. At least in politics there are some boundaries. But in the tech world there is no mercy. Especially when you have 10s of millions even 100 million on legal teams and strategists to hurt the other guy. If Steve Jobs was still alive he would have brought this stupid map issue to its knees and any one who caused or made it a problem would have trembled at the mere thought of facing the man. This too will pass and Maps will be a mega app for the iPhone and iPad.
Well, it's good to see you admit that this can be standard practice with some companies. But, if the army of astroturfers is spread around in various 2nd and 3rd-world countries -- and it's ridiculously easy to make it appear they are using IPs in this country, or anywhere, for that matter -- exactly what press would they go to? Or, maybe these are just those rogue contractors Google is always having trouble with, like the "Indian contractors" who pulled the Kenyan scam. Funny, none of them went to the press, did they?
Just to be clear - you have no evidence to back up your claims then?
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Yeah I just tried it and I get nothing but blurry pixels too.
"blurry" suggest you're talking about the satellite data, not the map per se.
Daniel isn't suggesting that the PNGs or JPGs are all cached too is he? I'm pretty sure that would be inaccurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
This all sounds highly implausible. If Google had an army of astroturfers, you'd expect at least one to go rogue and tell the press. That's how Microsoft and other companies got found out.
You have zero evidence to back this up as far as I can tell.
Well, it's good to see you admit that this can be standard practice with some companies. But, if the army of astroturfers is spread around in various 2nd and 3rd-world countries -- and it's ridiculously easy to make it appear they are using IPs in this country, or anywhere, for that matter -- exactly what press would they go to? Or, maybe these are just those rogue contractors Google is always having trouble with, like the "Indian contractors" who pulled the Kenyan scam. Funny, none of them went to the press, did they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
These articles prove that for areas where the data exists and is accurate, iOS 6 maps are competitive, and will likely evolve into the category leader.
It still doesn't change the fact however, that all you Americans doing your web reports and blogs about maps are looking at things through the wrong end of a telescope. With few exceptions, when you step across the US border ... almost all the data is pure shit.
I live in switzerland which is, in case you don't know, a few steps plus a few strokes through water outside the US border. And at least the few places I checked are quite accurate.
Some POI's are a little off maybe 10-30 meters. But that's OK as long as they keep improving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Except the data and the imagery is were the puck used to be about 5 years ago.
Just like Street View.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Except the data and the imagery is were the puck used to be about 5 years ago.
According to some evidence we've seen in this very thread, Google's data and imagery are also where the puck was 5 years ago. Unless you can actually produce some valid evidence that objectively supports that Google's data and imagery actually are better than Apple's, and quantifies how much better (or worse), overall, you have to simply admit that you are parroting unsubstantiated assertions.
You should also keep in mind that The Great One didn't always have the puck in his possession, often up until the last moment before he scored.
I never liked street view, it was way too slow at moving down the street to see the necessary details. I would say it was more of a neat thing than useful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Speaking of the GPS on the iPhone. Once your route is loaded it will still follow your location via the GPS and update the map and TbT at the appropriate times. I tested this with Verizon on LTE, hence no SV&D, and it worked great so those wondering about not being able to not use Maps while on the phone need not worry. Of course, the one caveat is that you can't deviate from your path too much because only the route and some surrounding areas will be cached.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }Phew! This is good news. I was just about to ask. Thanks!
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
There's no need to look far, just look at any non-american city that's not of the few in flyover.
You'll get :
- black and white or/and pixellated or/and blurry stripes
- clouds
- undersaturated images
Try looking for Kyoto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Yeah I just tried it and I get nothing but blurry pixels too.
"blurry" suggest you're talking about the satellite data, not the map per se.
Daniel isn't suggesting that the PNGs or JPGs are all cached too is he? I'm pretty sure that would be inaccurate.
No it is not the imagery. I loaded a street map of SoCal and panned around zoomed in and out and then turned on Airplane mode like the previous poster. Then when I tried to view the STREET MAP of a near by area I got nothing but empty squares. If I zoomed out I saw a map of the continent but when zooming in the blurry pixels were the only representation available. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong but I was unable to view any detail "down to Peru" as the article stated - in fact I could not even see San Diego which is only 75 miles from here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX
Fanboy...
There's nothing at all gained from middle-school name-calling like Fanboy, Scamdung, or even troll and shill. Even a 15-year old can. . . well, act like a 15-year old. I assume most of us are adults and left the playground long ago. If you want you opinion taken seriously you're handicapping yourself by tossing in juvenile ad-homs. An intelligent response is almost never made more effective with profanity or name-calling so why stoop to a 15-year old's level?
Originally Posted by Inkling
Apple could make Maps in iOS 6 much better if they made it possible for iPhones to share GPS data with non-GPS-equipped iPads via Bluetooth.
Doesn't Personal Hotspot do that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Except the data and the imagery is were the puck used to be about 5 years ago.
According to some evidence we've seen in this very thread, Google's data and imagery are also where the puck was 5 years ago. Unless you can actually produce some valid evidence that objectively supports that Google's data and imagery actually are better than Apple's, and quantifies how much better (or worse), overall, you have to simply admit that you are parroting unsubstantiated assertions.
You should also keep in mind that The Great One didn't always have the puck in his possession, often up until the last moment before he scored.
My comments are based on my own observation of the maps in my own neighborhoods. Although I made no reference to Google now that you bring it up, their imagery data is substantially higher resolution and years more current than the Apple versions. If you would like, I can PM to you the GPS coordinates of the areas I'm referring to so that you can make your own evaluation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
My comments are based on my own observation of the maps in my own neighborhoods. Although I made no reference to Google now that you bring it up, their imagery data is substantially higher resolution and years more current than the Apple versions. If you would like, I can PM to you the GPS coordinates of the areas I'm referring to so that you can make your own evaluation.
That's exactly the point. Your comments are simply subjective anecdotes. Without an objective comparison, like this,
http://vore.cc/post/32503374905/old-maps-vs-new-maps
your comments are meaningless.
It' s a simple, but heart-wrenching trade-off. You give yourself a fighting chance for your medium and long term competitiveness-enhancing endeavor to succeed, ...at the costs of short-term competitiveness and a spun-off dent in your reputation. As much as I value ethical practices above all, medium-term...AI-based-platform survivability, ...and relative evolution, trump humility and Apple's ethical orthodoxy. In this particular, and isolated instance.
You give up some of your moral ascendancy, ...and all of Google's serendipitous roadmap, for a future groundswell of well-oriented handclaps. For Apple to have been prematurely voluble and transparent would have slowed to a crawl, and thus gravely imperiled, usage-centric, Maps/Siri-platform development...
...and Google...consorts...and proxies reacted as drug-dealers do when you cut their go-to market...by their better half.
I don't think it matters. vector based maps are pretty small.. couple hundred K per tile.
your phone has to be pretty desperate to have to reclaim a couple megs.
additionally, ios returns resources after non use (the oldest data in RAM).. so as long as you keep using maps (after a little game playing), it should hold on to the data. the app on the farthest right (keep swiping) of the multi-task bar will be the first to give up the ghost.
I added the google maps web shortcut to my home screen. it asked me if I wanted to give the "app" 50MB of storage. Apple may use this mechanic and not even ask (since it's not 3rd party)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX
There's no need to look far, just look at any non-american city that's not of the few in flyover.
You'll get :
- black and white or/and pixellated or/and blurry stripes
- clouds
- undersaturated images
Try looking for Kyoto.
Try Beijing, China on GoogleMaps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
The flack maps has gotten is despicable and insane, and has really made me lose faith in humanity. What a bunch of whiny, entitled, spoiled brats we've become. There are so many incredibly impressive things about this product, and what Apple has managed to accomplish at LAUNCH is positive insane. I can't believe flyover is now mocked and defined as 'garbage' and 'crap' because of people desperately looking for the worst looking stuff at the worst angles, ignoring the fact that 99% of the time it looks stunning. I've browsed 20 cities in 3D and my mind gets numb trying to imagine the level of work that must have taken, as well as the technical ability, algorithms, etc to make the 3D look near photo realistic. We're talking entire cities rendered, with residential areas, not just the core downtown. The cartography is gorgeous. Vector maps cache brilliantly and are incredibly well designed. Turn by turn has been flawless in my experience. Yes, there's missing/wrong data which there inevitably will be. But the fact that Apple hasn't gotten a shred of credit for the package, which in many ways is superior to Google maps (design of cartography, flyover, turn by turn interface, caching, iconography, etc) from a company that has never been in the mapping business, is just depressing.
Yeah, lets bitch and mock imperfections when an entire city is being rendered in 3D, while the competition is using flat jpegs, thats not petty or anything. Just imagine the bandwidth costs Apple is incurring for this compared to flat tiles. Its insanely ambitious.
Times [and maps], they are a-changin'....
Google Maps iOS 5 (no street view available)
Apple Maps iOS 6 (no street view necessary)
Google Maps iOS 5 (nearest street view of front)
Apple Maps iOS (360 degree view)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerk36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
The flack maps has gotten is despicable and insane, and has really made me lose faith in humanity. What a bunch of whiny, entitled, spoiled brats we've become. There are so many incredibly impressive things about this product, and what Apple has managed to accomplish at LAUNCH is positive insane. I can't believe flyover is now mocked and defined as 'garbage' and 'crap' because of people desperately looking for the worst looking stuff at the worst angles, ignoring the fact that 99% of the time it looks stunning. I've browsed 20 cities in 3D and my mind gets numb trying to imagine the level of work that must have taken, as well as the technical ability, algorithms, etc to make the 3D look near photo realistic. We're talking entire cities rendered, with residential areas, not just the core downtown. The cartography is gorgeous. Vector maps cache brilliantly and are incredibly well designed. Turn by turn has been flawless in my experience. Yes, there's missing/wrong data which there inevitably will be. But the fact that Apple hasn't gotten a shred of credit for the package, which in many ways is superior to Google maps (design of cartography, flyover, turn by turn interface, caching, iconography, etc) from a company that has never been in the mapping business, is just depressing.
Yeah, lets bitch and mock imperfections when an entire city is being rendered in 3D, while the competition is using flat jpegs, thats not petty or anything. Just imagine the bandwidth costs Apple is incurring for this compared to flat tiles. Its insanely ambitious.
The problem is there are more Apple Haters than lovers. There are mega corps who want to see Apple fail. This was a successful campaign. Kinda like politics but worst. At least in politics there are some boundaries. But in the tech world there is no mercy. Especially when you have 10s of millions even 100 million on legal teams and strategists to hurt the other guy. If Steve Jobs was still alive he would have brought this stupid map issue to its knees and any one who caused or made it a problem would have trembled at the mere thought of facing the man. This too will pass and Maps will be a mega app for the iPhone and iPad.
Likely, Apple Maps was initiated by Steve!
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Well, it's good to see you admit that this can be standard practice with some companies. But, if the army of astroturfers is spread around in various 2nd and 3rd-world countries -- and it's ridiculously easy to make it appear they are using IPs in this country, or anywhere, for that matter -- exactly what press would they go to? Or, maybe these are just those rogue contractors Google is always having trouble with, like the "Indian contractors" who pulled the Kenyan scam. Funny, none of them went to the press, did they?
Just to be clear - you have no evidence to back up your claims then?