The metro interface has received some pretty positive reviews even from Apple fans in the media. Microsoft and its partners surely haven't shipped anywhere near as many phones as they would have liked, but I don't think that has anything to do with the interface. It has more to do with them getting into the market so late and losing so much ground on their biggest competitors.
I applaud Microsoft for at least trying to do something different with their UI, unlike Android.
Anyway I've just pre-ordered a Surface tablet. I'm willing to give this a chance. Since I held off upgrading the iPad 3 this year, this gives me the opportunity to try something different.
I have tried Windows 8 on a desktop, and the Metro interface is unusable garbage (IMHO, of course). Plus, there are serious compatibility issues. This tells me that (a) Windows RT will not be compatible with anything useful for quite a while and hence (b) no IT department will touch it with a 10' pole for quite a while. As many others have pointed out, for the money they are charging you can get a very nice Windows notebook (even a very light ultrabook), so I am not exactly sure what this thing is for.
I think MS was very smart on pricing. $499 leaves their OEMs breathing room even after paying for the OS...at least enough to make the usual meager profits that PC OEMs are used to.
WTF any OEM can do in the 7" Android Tablet market is beyond me with both Amazon and Google selling at cost.
Of course it won't undercut the iPad price, because nobody can build one for less unless they want to lose money on every device sold... And M$ may still lose money on every one of these they sell - we don't yet know the full cost (not just materials) of these tablets.
It will be interesting to watch what happens though. I don't begrudge M$ any success they have with it - because they at least designed a product that is not a blatant rip-off of the iPad, which is more than I can say for some other companies.
Apple has pretty fat gross margins, so it should be possible to undercut the iPad. Microsoft wants to be Apple, so seems to be also selling this thing with pretty cushy margins.
I'm all for the Surface. I won't be buying one, but I want them to succeed so that they drive Apple to keep innovating and adding features. For example, may be Apple will now start shipping the iPads 32GB as the base configuration to match the Surface. That would be great.
Either you and many people don't understand or are still in denial... this isn't about Surface. Surface is just one small part of the bigger picture. This is about Windows (that is the bigger picture: all the devices, all the form factors). Good luck to iOS in the next 2 years in trying to surpass the 90%+ marketshare of Windows.
Which Windows? Windows 7? (which will be with us for a while, since a lot of pro applications -- Mathematica, Bloomberg -- are not yet compatible) Windows 8? Windows RT? Windows 8 Phone? Ah, to have four completely incompatible devices all running windows... Good luck to iOS indeed...
I'm all for the Surface. I won't be buying one, but I want them to succeed so that they drive Apple to keep innovating and adding features. For example, may be Apple will now start shipping the iPads 32GB as the base configuration to match the Surface. That would be great.
Full Microsoft Office, USB ports, microsd card support, uHDMI for video out, file browser, flash support, mouse support, double the capacity of the same price iPad. Heck adding a 32GB microsd card for less than 30 USD and you get a 64GB device for less than 600 USD.
oh..and there are way cheaper Windows 8 options than Surface. The Iconia W510 with ATOM is the same price as the 32GB Surface with all the feature set and the 16GB iPad .
While Apple does us price premiums on storage to gain profits -- you're making the mistake again of just using raw specs to compare.
And this product doesn't ship yet right?
Then you mention a product that is "really cheap" for bargains. Seriously -- nobody wants those bargain products. They are "Christmas day dissappointments" where Uncle Rick got something "just as good as an iPad" and for half the price. Child then grows up thinking; "Pads are useless" and becomes a highly paid Technology analyst who parrots PR brochures having gotten used to lies as a child.
In real usage, the Speed, Battery Life and Performance are going to not be up to iPad specks. The rest of the system will be "Beta Test ready" quality (from past performance of Microsoft 1.0 releases). The one advantage here is a regular USB port and Microsoft Office. But you know, you end up lugging around a keyboard and a DVD player to blow away those stupid iPad suckers and you've just reproduced a NetBook at twice the price and half the performance (wow -- does this remind us of Microsoft's first endeavor with tablets and how this made everyone realize that NOBODY wanted a tablet or what?)
The Surface might be pretty cool,if Microsoft can leverage the XBox with it as a gaming platform -- but I wouldn't want to be the first one to buy this thing out the gate. And that's if everyone else stands still while Microsoft lines up developers for the new platform.
It's also not a car seat warmer, but it will be the best car seat warmer you've ever used -- but only do this after you've busted the screen and exhausted it's utility as the "best cracked glass flash light you've ever used."
With a few modifications, it could also be the best toaster!
I like how the computery tablet (the one running real Windows) has a Mini DisplayPort port. Almost as if Microsoft has recognized that VGA is worthless this side of 1999. STILL behind the standards, but hey.
Wow one of the negative comments about the surface is "The basic model also comes without a touch cover, TechCrunch revealed on Tuesday. The keyboard cover accessory will be available with the Surface tablet for $599". This is part of the conversation comparing it to the ipad, but the ipad doesnt come with any accessories either? If you want the smart cover for the ipad you are looking at another $40-70, if you want a bluetooth keyboard cover for the ipad you are looking at another $100, so why put down the surface for not including an accessory? if it was including it wouldnt be considered "an accessory". Thus it definitely is undercutting the ipad on price.
Difference being, of course, that the iPad and all iOS apps are fully functional under touch, without a keyboard. The keyboard is optional (and you can use the Apple bluetooth keyboard with your iMac).
But on the Surface? Good luck doing anything without the keyboard. Especially "full" Office. You get a "Touch" interface "surface" deep, then get thrown into a poorly conceived interface that obviously started as a desktop interface but is neither a great desktop nor a great touch interface. Good luck with that.
Surface cover keyboard: $119
Apple keyboard (useable for other things) $69 + smart cover $49 = $118
Any number of innovative third party accessories for iPad.
Real innovative MS, way to focus on the snap cover in your ads and material; you must make a great margin on those. I wonder how innovative the actual Surface is.
Whoa... the stock market website, TheStreet.com just ran a story about the dismal road ahead for Microsoft and Google in their competition with Apple, saying, "As great as Apple has been, you really have to chalk up some of its success to pathetic competition."
Oww, that was HARSH!
The writer sees BOTH of these companies failing in their "war" with Apple. He says there will be some "news-driven artificial bumps" to MSFT stock once Windows 8 is released, "but it's all downhill from there."
Mr. Pendola goes on to add:
Microsoft and Google, in their own ways, say, yeh, us and Apple, we battle, we're alike. And we're supposed to assume that it's true.
Microsoft has absolutely zero confidence in its plan to sell hardware and create an ecosystem like Apple's. If it did, it would not need the cockamamie idea of opening Office up to iOS and Android mobile devices. That's what you call a backup plan.
Microsoft needs this contingency in place. Simple as that. If it kept things closed, revenue would drop precipitously because the Surface tablet and any other hardware running Windows 8 that it or its partners produce will not sell enough units to support mobile Office as a Microsoft-only platform.
What's the battery life on these things? I can't find this info out anywhere across the web
Microsoft considers batter life to be an unimportant specification. The Surface is only really functional on a table top and there's usually an outlet near a table, so why should battery life be an issue? Pshaw!
It's enough to know that you will be able to dance like Monkey boy once you get this thing in your hands.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos
The metro interface has received some pretty positive reviews even from Apple fans in the media. Microsoft and its partners surely haven't shipped anywhere near as many phones as they would have liked, but I don't think that has anything to do with the interface. It has more to do with them getting into the market so late and losing so much ground on their biggest competitors.
I applaud Microsoft for at least trying to do something different with their UI, unlike Android.
Anyway I've just pre-ordered a Surface tablet. I'm willing to give this a chance. Since I held off upgrading the iPad 3 this year, this gives me the opportunity to try something different.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }I have tried Windows 8 on a desktop, and the Metro interface is unusable garbage (IMHO, of course). Plus, there are serious compatibility issues. This tells me that (a) Windows RT will not be compatible with anything useful for quite a while and hence (b) no IT department will touch it with a 10' pole for quite a while. As many others have pointed out, for the money they are charging you can get a very nice Windows notebook (even a very light ultrabook), so I am not exactly sure what this thing is for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
I think MS was very smart on pricing. $499 leaves their OEMs breathing room even after paying for the OS...at least enough to make the usual meager profits that PC OEMs are used to.
WTF any OEM can do in the 7" Android Tablet market is beyond me with both Amazon and Google selling at cost.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }Google's tablet is pretty high end. You can make some money selling worse ones for less.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytdave
Of course it won't undercut the iPad price, because nobody can build one for less unless they want to lose money on every device sold... And M$ may still lose money on every one of these they sell - we don't yet know the full cost (not just materials) of these tablets.
It will be interesting to watch what happens though. I don't begrudge M$ any success they have with it - because they at least designed a product that is not a blatant rip-off of the iPad, which is more than I can say for some other companies.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }Apple has pretty fat gross margins, so it should be possible to undercut the iPad. Microsoft wants to be Apple, so seems to be also selling this thing with pretty cushy margins.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Dawkins
Either you and many people don't understand or are still in denial... this isn't about Surface. Surface is just one small part of the bigger picture. This is about Windows (that is the bigger picture: all the devices, all the form factors). Good luck to iOS in the next 2 years in trying to surpass the 90%+ marketshare of Windows.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }Which Windows? Windows 7? (which will be with us for a while, since a lot of pro applications -- Mathematica, Bloomberg -- are not yet compatible) Windows 8? Windows RT? Windows 8 Phone? Ah, to have four completely incompatible devices all running windows... Good luck to iOS indeed...
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantasm
I'm all for the Surface. I won't be buying one, but I want them to succeed so that they drive Apple to keep innovating and adding features. For example, may be Apple will now start shipping the iPads 32GB as the base configuration to match the Surface. That would be great.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }I would rather they added a 128GB device -- I am out of space on the 64GB
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
LOL
“Surface is not a tablet, but it’s the best tablet I’ve ever used. It’s not a laptop, but it’s the best laptop I’ve ever used,” said Sinofsky
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }It is not a paperweight, but it is the most expensive paperweight I have used!
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
The only time an alternative to an iPad has moved in decent numbers is when its $200 or less.
I wonder how many customers will be disappointed when they find out that most Windows apps will not run on Window RT?
Is there a Surface-Gate coming?
Quote:
Originally Posted by msimpson
Is there a Surface-Gate coming?
There was already a Gates-Gate:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach
It seems to be all rubber coated. Maybe you can put it in the dish washer. That at least would be interesting.
Will it blend?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Dawkins
Surface 32GB - 499 USD
Full Microsoft Office, USB ports, microsd card support, uHDMI for video out, file browser, flash support, mouse support, double the capacity of the same price iPad. Heck adding a 32GB microsd card for less than 30 USD and you get a 64GB device for less than 600 USD.
oh..and there are way cheaper Windows 8 options than Surface. The Iconia W510 with ATOM is the same price as the 32GB Surface with all the feature set and the 16GB iPad .
While Apple does us price premiums on storage to gain profits -- you're making the mistake again of just using raw specs to compare.
And this product doesn't ship yet right?
Then you mention a product that is "really cheap" for bargains. Seriously -- nobody wants those bargain products. They are "Christmas day dissappointments" where Uncle Rick got something "just as good as an iPad" and for half the price. Child then grows up thinking; "Pads are useless" and becomes a highly paid Technology analyst who parrots PR brochures having gotten used to lies as a child.
In real usage, the Speed, Battery Life and Performance are going to not be up to iPad specks. The rest of the system will be "Beta Test ready" quality (from past performance of Microsoft 1.0 releases). The one advantage here is a regular USB port and Microsoft Office. But you know, you end up lugging around a keyboard and a DVD player to blow away those stupid iPad suckers and you've just reproduced a NetBook at twice the price and half the performance (wow -- does this remind us of Microsoft's first endeavor with tablets and how this made everyone realize that NOBODY wanted a tablet or what?)
The Surface might be pretty cool,if Microsoft can leverage the XBox with it as a gaming platform -- but I wouldn't want to be the first one to buy this thing out the gate. And that's if everyone else stands still while Microsoft lines up developers for the new platform.
What's the battery life on these things? I can't find this info out anywhere across the web
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
It is not a paperweight, but it is the most expensive paperweight I have used!
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
It's also not a car seat warmer, but it will be the best car seat warmer you've ever used -- but only do this after you've busted the screen and exhausted it's utility as the "best cracked glass flash light you've ever used."
With a few modifications, it could also be the best toaster!
Originally Posted by simtub
What's the battery life on these things? I can't find this info out anywhere across the web
They don't even know.
I like how the computery tablet (the one running real Windows) has a Mini DisplayPort port. Almost as if Microsoft has recognized that VGA is worthless this side of 1999. STILL behind the standards, but hey.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyShannon
Wow one of the negative comments about the surface is "The basic model also comes without a touch cover, TechCrunch revealed on Tuesday. The keyboard cover accessory will be available with the Surface tablet for $599". This is part of the conversation comparing it to the ipad, but the ipad doesnt come with any accessories either? If you want the smart cover for the ipad you are looking at another $40-70, if you want a bluetooth keyboard cover for the ipad you are looking at another $100, so why put down the surface for not including an accessory? if it was including it wouldnt be considered "an accessory". Thus it definitely is undercutting the ipad on price.
Difference being, of course, that the iPad and all iOS apps are fully functional under touch, without a keyboard. The keyboard is optional (and you can use the Apple bluetooth keyboard with your iMac).
But on the Surface? Good luck doing anything without the keyboard. Especially "full" Office. You get a "Touch" interface "surface" deep, then get thrown into a poorly conceived interface that obviously started as a desktop interface but is neither a great desktop nor a great touch interface. Good luck with that.
Surface cover keyboard: $119
Apple keyboard (useable for other things) $69 + smart cover $49 = $118
Any number of innovative third party accessories for iPad.
Real innovative MS, way to focus on the snap cover in your ads and material; you must make a great margin on those. I wonder how innovative the actual Surface is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
How to make a tablet, Microsoft style:
1. Detach keyboard/trackpad from a laptop, make it a "premium" add-on
2. Hide Windows desktop behind "Metro" Start page
3. Now tell everyone it's a tablet
Ballmer is a visionary!
LOL so true
Whoa... the stock market website, TheStreet.com just ran a story about the dismal road ahead for Microsoft and Google in their competition with Apple, saying, "As great as Apple has been, you really have to chalk up some of its success to pathetic competition."
Oww, that was HARSH!
The writer sees BOTH of these companies failing in their "war" with Apple. He says there will be some "news-driven artificial bumps" to MSFT stock once Windows 8 is released, "but it's all downhill from there."
Mr. Pendola goes on to add:
Microsoft and Google, in their own ways, say, yeh, us and Apple, we battle, we're alike. And we're supposed to assume that it's true.
Microsoft has absolutely zero confidence in its plan to sell hardware and create an ecosystem like Apple's. If it did, it would not need the cockamamie idea of opening Office up to iOS and Android mobile devices. That's what you call a backup plan.
Microsoft needs this contingency in place. Simple as that. If it kept things closed, revenue would drop precipitously because the Surface tablet and any other hardware running Windows 8 that it or its partners produce will not sell enough units to support mobile Office as a Microsoft-only platform.
Quote:
Originally Posted by simtub
What's the battery life on these things? I can't find this info out anywhere across the web
Microsoft considers batter life to be an unimportant specification. The Surface is only really functional on a table top and there's usually an outlet near a table, so why should battery life be an issue? Pshaw!
It's enough to know that you will be able to dance like Monkey boy once you get this thing in your hands.