The metro interface has received some pretty positive reviews even from Apple fans in the media. Microsoft and its partners surely haven't shipped anywhere near as many phones as they would have liked, but I don't think that has anything to do with the interface. It has more to do with them getting into the market so late and losing so much ground on their biggest competitors.
I applaud Microsoft for at least trying to do something different with their UI, unlike Android.
Anyway I've just pre-ordered a Surface tablet. I'm willing to give this a chance. Since I held off upgrading the iPad 3 this year, this gives me the opportunity to try something different.
Well, what can we say yet with any confidence? There has been no hands on. The "positive" reviews were in relation to the colored squares with live updates and notifications in them. Sure, this is possibly refreshing change to row after row of app icon. But that's as far as it goes. Equally, many people hate it.
But as a "touch OS", we don't know yet how good it really is. The Surface RT comes with Windows 8 RT. That means it gets the "Metro" UI only. Whatever this "full" Office is on Windows RT, it isn't "full". But what is it, is it even really touch optimized? Apparently you need a keyboard to really do anything properly. You get some kind of touch functionality, and some kind of poorly conceived mouse/keyboard interface that is only a barely tweaked desktop interface where a few elements are spaced out and made a little bigger so your finger can hit them. RT / "Metro" / Windows 8 Style UI is possibly as good as WebOS, who knows.
Have MS spent 20 years with ARM? Has MS ever ported their NT base successfully to another architecture as Apple has ported OS X from PowerPC to Intel to ARM? Can MS do their own custom silicon to enhance their software?
This is why MS is insistent that iPads are consumption only, and MS thinks it has the real answer: because MS can't do Touch properly. They haven't successfully ported their desktop OS to ARM as Apple has. THey haven't got all the basic blocks of their desktop OS with a fully substituted UI layer as has Apple with iOS. MS has this piddling surface layer with no substance under it for Windows RT, and insist on subjecting full Windows 8 users to it as though it is the best thing since sliced bread. And yet Apple has had Quartz and Core Animation, both on the desktop and in iOS for years; and OS X has had sliding desktop UI's, as in Time Machine and the widget dashboard and now the app drawer.
The fact is, OS X and iOS have more in common that does Metro and Windows. The only innovation here is how MS can call everything and anything "Windows" (as though that is a comforting selling point for people) and get away with it. And now the Surface requires a keyboard (and a surface on which to place it) to be "productive". Hello Netbook 2. More smoke and mirrors.
It will be interesting to see how the keyboard cover holds up. If you are not using the keyboard and just the tablet, then the keyboard cover would be folded back behind the tablet with the keyboard laying down on whatever surface the tablet is laid on. I know you can detach it, but the cover is also a "smart cover" that turns the tablet on/off. I have a gen-1 ipad and when I use an iPad2 or newer, the cover is a really nice feature. Also, the RT version that is included is a Home/Student version which has limited function. Outlook is not included. And many of the power functions and features will be missing as well. It seems like Office for the Surface may not be much more powerful than Pages, or Number, and certainly not as good as Keynote for iOS.
Apple has pretty fat gross margins, so it should be possible to undercut the iPad. Microsoft wants to be Apple, so seems to be also selling this thing with pretty cushy margins.
Your'e not quite getting it. You can't undercut the iPad. Yes, you can sell something cheaper. And that's what it will be: cheaper. To "undercut" the iPad you will have to lose money as the poster you commented on suggested. To make something comparable, as good as the iPad, it will inevitably start out more expensive than the iPad because others can't match Apple's production processes and supply chain -- both of which Apple has worked hard at and innovated at for a decade. Yes, MS will have to cut margins... they will have to lose money to sell a comparable quality product at the same price as the iPad. Just as "ultra" book sellers found out (you know the ones that are barely giving away "ultra" notebooks at twice the thickness and half the batter life and that flex like a piece of paper)
So, to be selling at a comparable price, MS is selling a cheaper product: that's a given. To emulate Apple and also sell with high margins, well, you can see the MS strategy: everything is about the cover. Hundred buck addon to Surface, or 119 as accessory. Problem is, you really need that keyboard with a Surface to be "productive". Whereas iOS has much more depth than Metro and doesn't require one; its OS X underpinnings are far more solid as a stand alone OS, and the touch UI is not merely surface deep.
Your'e not quite getting it. You can't undercut the iPad. Yes, you can sell something cheaper. And that's what it will be: cheaper. To "undercut" the iPad you will have to lose money as the poster you commented on suggested. To make something comparable, as good as the iPad, it will inevitably start out more expensive than the iPad because others can't match Apple's production processes and supply chain -- both of which Apple has worked hard at and innovated at for a decade. Yes, MS will have to cut margins... they will have to lose money to sell a comparable quality product at the same price as the iPad. Just as "ultra" book sellers found out (you know the ones that are barely giving away "ultra" notebooks at twice the thickness and half the batter life and that flex like a piece of paper)
So, to be selling at a comparable price, MS is selling a cheaper product: that's a given. To emulate Apple and also sell with high margins, well, you can see the MS strategy: everything is about the cover. Hundred buck addon to Surface, or 119 as accessory. Problem is, you really need that keyboard with a Surface to be "productive". Whereas iOS has much more depth than Metro and doesn't require one; its OS X underpinnings are far more solid as a stand alone OS, and the touch UI is not merely surface deep.
Please don't tell me what I do or do not get. MS is ordering 5 MILLION of these things, from the same manufacturers as Apple is getting them from. Apple has 50% gross margins. Even if MS cost is 10% higher, they can lower the price to be below the iPad. It will not BE the same product at a lower price, but it will be a different product of the similar quality, sold cheaper. MS is not interested in that model; Amazon is.
Wow one of the negative comments about the surface is "The basic model also comes without a touch cover, TechCrunch revealed on Tuesday. The keyboard cover accessory will be available with the Surface tablet for $599". This is part of the conversation comparing it to the ipad, but the ipad doesnt come with any accessories either? If you want the smart cover for the ipad you are looking at another $40-70, if you want a bluetooth keyboard cover for the ipad you are looking at another $100, so why put down the surface for not including an accessory? if it was including it wouldnt be considered "an accessory". Thus it definitely is undercutting the ipad on price.
It is, but it is not supposed to compete with iPad on price level anyway. iPad is well established, well received product that dominates the market and exists in ecosystem nicely saturated by huge availability of apps, covers, and other peripherals.
Surface, on the other hand, has to establish beachead on very competitive front. They don't have number of advantages competitors have, even if some of them are largely perceived only. They need to be very aggressive on advantages they do have, and pricing is one of them.
32GB RT should be not more than $499 with cover, IMHO. I actually do believe it will be soon. It will take some time for MS to supply enough of them to shops and online retailers, but as soon as stocks reach certain level, price will go down $50 to $100. This initial price is not supposed to move volumes, it is for "exclusivity" addicts.
It will be interesting to see how the keyboard cover holds up. If you are not using the keyboard and just the tablet, then the keyboard cover would be folded back behind the tablet with the keyboard laying down on whatever surface the tablet is laid on. I know you can detach it, but the cover is also a "smart cover" that turns the tablet on/off. I have a gen-1 ipad and when I use an iPad2 or newer, the cover is a really nice feature. Also, the RT version that is included is a Home/Student version which has limited function. Outlook is not included. And many of the power functions and features will be missing as well. It seems like Office for the Surface may not be much more powerful than Pages, or Number, and certainly not as good as Keynote for iOS.
I would be quite surprised if the RT version of Office is anywhere near full-featured. On the other hand, if visual studio has an ARM compatibility mode, then it is conceivable (maybe someone knows).
Difference being, of course, that the iPad and all iOS apps are fully functional under touch, without a keyboard. The keyboard is optional (and you can use the Apple bluetooth keyboard with your iMac).
But on the Surface? Good luck doing anything without the keyboard. Especially "full" Office. You get a "Touch" interface "surface" deep, then get thrown into a poorly conceived interface that obviously started as a desktop interface but is neither a great desktop nor a great touch interface. Good luck with that.
Surface cover keyboard: $119
Apple keyboard (useable for other things) $69 + smart cover $49 = $118
Any number of innovative third party accessories for iPad.
Real innovative MS, way to focus on the snap cover in your ads and material; you must make a great margin on those. I wonder how innovative the actual Surface is.
Not sure what you are talking about here. Surface does have on-screen keyboard, and it looks pretty much the same as iPad or Android tablet screen keyboards.
I like how the computery tablet (the one running real Windows) has a Mini DisplayPort port. Almost as if Microsoft has recognized that VGA is worthless this side of 1999. STILL behind the standards, but hey.
Inclusion of VGA port is something being pushed by OEMs, not MS. Also serial ports, which you still get on some business laptops. I don't really think that MS cares what video connectors OEMs are including.
I preordered the Surface RT this AM without the keyboard. I was hoping that I could use either my USB iMac keyboard or a bluetooth keyboard that I got for the iPad. After talking with MS support is turns out that no keyboard other than the ones supplied by MS will work. I think this is a major downside.
While Apple does us price premiums on storage to gain profits -- you're making the mistake again of just using raw specs to compare.
And this product doesn't ship yet right?
Then you mention a product that is "really cheap" for bargains. Seriously -- nobody wants those bargain products. They are "Christmas day dissappointments" where Uncle Rick got something "just as good as an iPad" and for half the price. Child then grows up thinking; "Pads are useless" and becomes a highly paid Technology analyst who parrots PR brochures having gotten used to lies as a child.
In real usage, the Speed, Battery Life and Performance are going to not be up to iPad specks. The rest of the system will be "Beta Test ready" quality (from past performance of Microsoft 1.0 releases). The one advantage here is a regular USB port and Microsoft Office. But you know, you end up lugging around a keyboard and a DVD player to blow away those stupid iPad suckers and you've just reproduced a NetBook at twice the price and half the performance (wow -- does this remind us of Microsoft's first endeavor with tablets and how this made everyone realize that NOBODY wanted a tablet or what?)
The Surface might be pretty cool,if Microsoft can leverage the XBox with it as a gaming platform -- but I wouldn't want to be the first one to buy this thing out the gate. And that's if everyone else stands still while Microsoft lines up developers for the new platform.
I'd hold on battery life part, as we don't know how efficient Windows RT is with power, but since Surface RT is based on Tegra 3, performance results are fairly familiar: Tegra 3 has faster CPU and slower GPU than iPad, as described here:
Now that is for Tegra 3 on Android. Tegra's implementation in RT might change things a bit, depending on how good optimization MS manages to get out of drivers... but that remains to be seen.
Not sure what you mean with "lugging around a keyboard and a DVD player".
Apple has pretty fat gross margins, so it should be possible to undercut the iPad. Microsoft wants to be Apple, so seems to be also selling this thing with pretty cushy margins.
They started a $100 cheaper, and will easily drop more when supply outgrows demand. There will also be Lenovo, HP, Acer, Asus, Dell... RT tablets, covering different price levels and build quality. MS doesn't want to be Apple, otherwise they'd keep RT for themselves. What MS wants - in my opinion - is to set standards in terms of pricing, specs and quality, in order to prevent greedy OEMs to try overpricing crappy products and tarnish RT platform in the long run.
Like I said, I do believe MS should have included keyboard cover in initial pricing, but they can always bundle it in a month-or-so time (Christmas special?), effectively forcing OEMs to adjust pricing of their models as well.
Why is Microsoft so focused on the magnetic attachment of the touch cover. Apple's been there done that. Wouldn't they really want to focus on the fact that you can use it as a keyboard? Unless the keyboard part sucks and they just don't want anyone to know. Haha
Also with my iPad I like the fact that I can stand it two different ways - slightly raised when I want to use it for typing or vertical if Iwant to use it for watching video. With Surface you don't have that option. Every marketing shot I've seen of this device shows it with the touch cove attached and on a completely flat surface. Doesn't seem like that would work to well when you're sitting on the couch or lying in bed. Even though it can be used without the keyboard Microsoft isn't marketing it that way. So people will think the optimal way to use it is with the keyboard.
I think Microsoft forgot that most people don't mind tablets being more for consumption and light work than what their desktop or laptop would be used for.
Yes, but if this is the low-end consumer model, how much will the entry level pro model be that will run a full version of Windows 8?
At least they'll *HAVE* a "full" version that runs desktop software. With Apple your choices are a tablet that doesn't offer an easy keyboard solution (and doesn't do mouse at all, does it?), or a laptop that doesn't have a touchscreen or a way to ditch the keyboard.
If the "full" version of the Surface isn't a total disaster it provides the advantage of being a touch tablet when that's all you need and a reasonable laptop replacement for more serious keyboard work. I can see that appealing to a lot of road warriors.
The Real issue with the keyboard is at what point do people hate it once they realize their finger tips get snore from banging into the hard surface. Besides the tactile feedback the regular keyboard provided the keys allow your fingers to de-accelerate so you do not bottom out and hit hard. This had been the trade off for years on how small of a keystrock you can make and still make it usable.
How is that different than typing on the screen of a tablet? The benefit is larger keys placed in a more convenient position. It's a zero-key-travel proposition with or without the keyboard.
At least they'll *HAVE* a "full" version that runs desktop software.
There's a reason this isn't a good idea. If the last decade of Windows tablets didn't tip you off to it, will you ever learn it?
With Apple your choices are a tablet that doesn't offer an easy keyboard solution…
The ability to connect any Bluetooth keyboard available is "doesn't offer an easy keyboard solution"?
…a laptop that doesn't have a touchscreen or a way to ditch the keyboard.
So which is it? You want a keyboard or you don't? Laptops shouldn't have touchscreens. Not under the definition of what we think is a "laptop" right now, at least.
If the "full" version of the Surface isn't a total disaster it provides the advantage of being a touch tablet when that's all you need and a reasonable laptop replacement for more serious keyboard work.
I think that we'll find this is exactly why it will be a total disaster.
Sounds more like you want a laptop.. It comes with all those useless ports, and has a keyboard permanently attached..
Okay, so I take my iPad to the Legion hall with a pitch for a new sound system on it. They have a nice big screen projector there which will make it easy for everyone to see it. Oh wait, they don't have an Apple TV so no AirPlay. Hm, how will get the video out of the iPad and onto their big screen? Oh yeah! That CABLE you were so quick to dismiss!
I think it's awesome that you occupy a space in the computing continuum that makes ports "useless" to you. You may note, however, that a great many of us use our computers for more than chatting, whacking off and turning our brains into porridge with so-called "games." We ingest, spit out, collaborate, make, modify and mutate huge, hairy HEAPS of media that requires really a lot of connecting goezouttas into goezintas. Huge, fast storage devices, input devices, specialized output devices, older-than-built-just-this-afternoon legacy devices and just-ain't-ever-gonna-adopt-the-wireless-protocol-du-jour devices are all part of the daily regimen. We therefore celebrate and cherish our ports.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos
The metro interface has received some pretty positive reviews even from Apple fans in the media. Microsoft and its partners surely haven't shipped anywhere near as many phones as they would have liked, but I don't think that has anything to do with the interface. It has more to do with them getting into the market so late and losing so much ground on their biggest competitors.
I applaud Microsoft for at least trying to do something different with their UI, unlike Android.
Anyway I've just pre-ordered a Surface tablet. I'm willing to give this a chance. Since I held off upgrading the iPad 3 this year, this gives me the opportunity to try something different.
Well, what can we say yet with any confidence? There has been no hands on. The "positive" reviews were in relation to the colored squares with live updates and notifications in them. Sure, this is possibly refreshing change to row after row of app icon. But that's as far as it goes. Equally, many people hate it.
But as a "touch OS", we don't know yet how good it really is. The Surface RT comes with Windows 8 RT. That means it gets the "Metro" UI only. Whatever this "full" Office is on Windows RT, it isn't "full". But what is it, is it even really touch optimized? Apparently you need a keyboard to really do anything properly. You get some kind of touch functionality, and some kind of poorly conceived mouse/keyboard interface that is only a barely tweaked desktop interface where a few elements are spaced out and made a little bigger so your finger can hit them. RT / "Metro" / Windows 8 Style UI is possibly as good as WebOS, who knows.
Have MS spent 20 years with ARM? Has MS ever ported their NT base successfully to another architecture as Apple has ported OS X from PowerPC to Intel to ARM? Can MS do their own custom silicon to enhance their software?
This is why MS is insistent that iPads are consumption only, and MS thinks it has the real answer: because MS can't do Touch properly. They haven't successfully ported their desktop OS to ARM as Apple has. THey haven't got all the basic blocks of their desktop OS with a fully substituted UI layer as has Apple with iOS. MS has this piddling surface layer with no substance under it for Windows RT, and insist on subjecting full Windows 8 users to it as though it is the best thing since sliced bread. And yet Apple has had Quartz and Core Animation, both on the desktop and in iOS for years; and OS X has had sliding desktop UI's, as in Time Machine and the widget dashboard and now the app drawer.
The fact is, OS X and iOS have more in common that does Metro and Windows. The only innovation here is how MS can call everything and anything "Windows" (as though that is a comforting selling point for people) and get away with it. And now the Surface requires a keyboard (and a surface on which to place it) to be "productive". Hello Netbook 2. More smoke and mirrors.
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky
It's enough to know that you will be able to dance like Monkey boy once you get this thing in your hands.
*Warning: Microsoft does not warrant nor does it recommend use of the Surface™ while dancing or moving one's center of gravity in any fashion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
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Apple has pretty fat gross margins, so it should be possible to undercut the iPad. Microsoft wants to be Apple, so seems to be also selling this thing with pretty cushy margins.
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Your'e not quite getting it. You can't undercut the iPad. Yes, you can sell something cheaper. And that's what it will be: cheaper. To "undercut" the iPad you will have to lose money as the poster you commented on suggested. To make something comparable, as good as the iPad, it will inevitably start out more expensive than the iPad because others can't match Apple's production processes and supply chain -- both of which Apple has worked hard at and innovated at for a decade. Yes, MS will have to cut margins... they will have to lose money to sell a comparable quality product at the same price as the iPad. Just as "ultra" book sellers found out (you know the ones that are barely giving away "ultra" notebooks at twice the thickness and half the batter life and that flex like a piece of paper)
So, to be selling at a comparable price, MS is selling a cheaper product: that's a given. To emulate Apple and also sell with high margins, well, you can see the MS strategy: everything is about the cover. Hundred buck addon to Surface, or 119 as accessory. Problem is, you really need that keyboard with a Surface to be "productive". Whereas iOS has much more depth than Metro and doesn't require one; its OS X underpinnings are far more solid as a stand alone OS, and the touch UI is not merely surface deep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by krabbelen
Your'e not quite getting it. You can't undercut the iPad. Yes, you can sell something cheaper. And that's what it will be: cheaper. To "undercut" the iPad you will have to lose money as the poster you commented on suggested. To make something comparable, as good as the iPad, it will inevitably start out more expensive than the iPad because others can't match Apple's production processes and supply chain -- both of which Apple has worked hard at and innovated at for a decade. Yes, MS will have to cut margins... they will have to lose money to sell a comparable quality product at the same price as the iPad. Just as "ultra" book sellers found out (you know the ones that are barely giving away "ultra" notebooks at twice the thickness and half the batter life and that flex like a piece of paper)
So, to be selling at a comparable price, MS is selling a cheaper product: that's a given. To emulate Apple and also sell with high margins, well, you can see the MS strategy: everything is about the cover. Hundred buck addon to Surface, or 119 as accessory. Problem is, you really need that keyboard with a Surface to be "productive". Whereas iOS has much more depth than Metro and doesn't require one; its OS X underpinnings are far more solid as a stand alone OS, and the touch UI is not merely surface deep.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }Please don't tell me what I do or do not get. MS is ordering 5 MILLION of these things, from the same manufacturers as Apple is getting them from. Apple has 50% gross margins. Even if MS cost is 10% higher, they can lower the price to be below the iPad. It will not BE the same product at a lower price, but it will be a different product of the similar quality, sold cheaper. MS is not interested in that model; Amazon is.
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It is, but it is not supposed to compete with iPad on price level anyway. iPad is well established, well received product that dominates the market and exists in ecosystem nicely saturated by huge availability of apps, covers, and other peripherals.
Surface, on the other hand, has to establish beachead on very competitive front. They don't have number of advantages competitors have, even if some of them are largely perceived only. They need to be very aggressive on advantages they do have, and pricing is one of them.
32GB RT should be not more than $499 with cover, IMHO. I actually do believe it will be soon. It will take some time for MS to supply enough of them to shops and online retailers, but as soon as stocks reach certain level, price will go down $50 to $100. This initial price is not supposed to move volumes, it is for "exclusivity" addicts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmikeo
It will be interesting to see how the keyboard cover holds up. If you are not using the keyboard and just the tablet, then the keyboard cover would be folded back behind the tablet with the keyboard laying down on whatever surface the tablet is laid on. I know you can detach it, but the cover is also a "smart cover" that turns the tablet on/off. I have a gen-1 ipad and when I use an iPad2 or newer, the cover is a really nice feature. Also, the RT version that is included is a Home/Student version which has limited function. Outlook is not included. And many of the power functions and features will be missing as well. It seems like Office for the Surface may not be much more powerful than Pages, or Number, and certainly not as good as Keynote for iOS.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }I would be quite surprised if the RT version of Office is anywhere near full-featured. On the other hand, if visual studio has an ARM compatibility mode, then it is conceivable (maybe someone knows).
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Not sure what you are talking about here. Surface does have on-screen keyboard, and it looks pretty much the same as iPad or Android tablet screen keyboards.
Inclusion of VGA port is something being pushed by OEMs, not MS. Also serial ports, which you still get on some business laptops. I don't really think that MS cares what video connectors OEMs are including.
I'd hold on battery life part, as we don't know how efficient Windows RT is with power, but since Surface RT is based on Tegra 3, performance results are fairly familiar: Tegra 3 has faster CPU and slower GPU than iPad, as described here:
http://www.redmondpie.com/a5-vs.-a5x-vs.-tegra-3-thoroughly-benchmarked-the-winner-is-rather-surprising/
Now that is for Tegra 3 on Android. Tegra's implementation in RT might change things a bit, depending on how good optimization MS manages to get out of drivers... but that remains to be seen.
Not sure what you mean with "lugging around a keyboard and a DVD player".
They started a $100 cheaper, and will easily drop more when supply outgrows demand. There will also be Lenovo, HP, Acer, Asus, Dell... RT tablets, covering different price levels and build quality. MS doesn't want to be Apple, otherwise they'd keep RT for themselves. What MS wants - in my opinion - is to set standards in terms of pricing, specs and quality, in order to prevent greedy OEMs to try overpricing crappy products and tarnish RT platform in the long run.
Like I said, I do believe MS should have included keyboard cover in initial pricing, but they can always bundle it in a month-or-so time (Christmas special?), effectively forcing OEMs to adjust pricing of their models as well.
Also with my iPad I like the fact that I can stand it two different ways - slightly raised when I want to use it for typing or vertical if Iwant to use it for watching video. With Surface you don't have that option. Every marketing shot I've seen of this device shows it with the touch cove attached and on a completely flat surface. Doesn't seem like that would work to well when you're sitting on the couch or lying in bed. Even though it can be used without the keyboard Microsoft isn't marketing it that way. So people will think the optimal way to use it is with the keyboard.
I think Microsoft forgot that most people don't mind tablets being more for consumption and light work than what their desktop or laptop would be used for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Why all the faith?
I said "It may suck horribly"- That's as much faith as I give it.
The slightly frayed looking edge on this advertising image looks a bit iffy.
Originally Posted by AnalogJack
The slightly frayed looking edge on this advertising image looks a bit iffy.
Out of what is the cover made, anyway?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128
Yes, but if this is the low-end consumer model, how much will the entry level pro model be that will run a full version of Windows 8?
At least they'll *HAVE* a "full" version that runs desktop software. With Apple your choices are a tablet that doesn't offer an easy keyboard solution (and doesn't do mouse at all, does it?), or a laptop that doesn't have a touchscreen or a way to ditch the keyboard.
If the "full" version of the Surface isn't a total disaster it provides the advantage of being a touch tablet when that's all you need and a reasonable laptop replacement for more serious keyboard work. I can see that appealing to a lot of road warriors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64
The Real issue with the keyboard is at what point do people hate it once they realize their finger tips get snore from banging into the hard surface. Besides the tactile feedback the regular keyboard provided the keys allow your fingers to de-accelerate so you do not bottom out and hit hard. This had been the trade off for years on how small of a keystrock you can make and still make it usable.
How is that different than typing on the screen of a tablet? The benefit is larger keys placed in a more convenient position. It's a zero-key-travel proposition with or without the keyboard.
Originally Posted by v5v
At least they'll *HAVE* a "full" version that runs desktop software.
There's a reason this isn't a good idea. If the last decade of Windows tablets didn't tip you off to it, will you ever learn it?
With Apple your choices are a tablet that doesn't offer an easy keyboard solution…
The ability to connect any Bluetooth keyboard available is "doesn't offer an easy keyboard solution"?
…a laptop that doesn't have a touchscreen or a way to ditch the keyboard.
So which is it? You want a keyboard or you don't? Laptops shouldn't have touchscreens. Not under the definition of what we think is a "laptop" right now, at least.
If the "full" version of the Surface isn't a total disaster it provides the advantage of being a touch tablet when that's all you need and a reasonable laptop replacement for more serious keyboard work.
I think that we'll find this is exactly why it will be a total disaster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMGS
So you WANT to use a cable to get video out???
Sounds more like you want a laptop.. It comes with all those useless ports, and has a keyboard permanently attached..
Okay, so I take my iPad to the Legion hall with a pitch for a new sound system on it. They have a nice big screen projector there which will make it easy for everyone to see it. Oh wait, they don't have an Apple TV so no AirPlay. Hm, how will get the video out of the iPad and onto their big screen? Oh yeah! That CABLE you were so quick to dismiss!
I think it's awesome that you occupy a space in the computing continuum that makes ports "useless" to you. You may note, however, that a great many of us use our computers for more than chatting, whacking off and turning our brains into porridge with so-called "games." We ingest, spit out, collaborate, make, modify and mutate huge, hairy HEAPS of media that requires really a lot of connecting goezouttas into goezintas. Huge, fast storage devices, input devices, specialized output devices, older-than-built-just-this-afternoon legacy devices and just-ain't-ever-gonna-adopt-the-wireless-protocol-du-jour devices are all part of the daily regimen. We therefore celebrate and cherish our ports.