Apple stock is dropping and for a little iPad, a little event at a little theatre in San Jose so the Apple executives don't have to drive far and don't miss much work!
A few seconds ago, for today: AAPL up $14.23 up 2.23%
They could. Someone pointed out that if they don't use the new in-cell touch panels there aren't any supply constraints and it's rather old tech so yields are high and prices lower. It's been around since the iphone 4.
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how Apple can use a 326 PPI 4:3 2048x1536 display in a 7.85" tablet that is half the price, lighter, and thinner than the 9.7" version while having at least the same battery life.
Everyone seems to be unanimous about the iPad mini, and seeing the news leak in recent times from Apple, it should not be a surprise at all.. Will be very interesting to see the pricing of the mini if at all they release one. looking at their present product pr icings there will be a lot of over laps and the worse thing that can happen is their own products eating into each others business. Google your move..lol
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how Apple can use a 326 PPI 4:3 2048x1536 display in a 7.85" tablet that is half the price, lighter, and thinner than the 9.7" version while having at least the same battery life.
32nm A5X vs 45nm A5X (i.e. higher yields per wafer). Same kind of panel as in the iPod Touch 5th gen (cheaper type of panel than in the iPhone). Other cost savings just because we're 6 months later than the original iPad 3 launch.
$299 for the current iPod touch. Add the costs for a bigger panel and the A5X and you can guesstimate the price of a retina iPad mini viable around $399-$449 for 16GB...or $100-$50 cheaper than the current iPad. I favor $399 for price parity with the iPad 2 but you can go $449 if you like.
Come spring the 4th gen iPad will get the A6. $399 for a retina mini based on the A5X, $399 for the iPad 3 and $499 for a full sized iPad based on the A6X.
Or if you really prefer: $399 for the iPad 3 with 32nm A5X, $449 for the retina mini with the 32nm A5X and $499 for the iPad 4 with A6X.
Same battery life...well...smaller backlights and going 32nm?
I really don't think the screen is an issue. They could be using a number of different technologies, some bleeding edge.
Thanks for trying to point this out, but frankly I don't think people grasp this fact. IOS is not pixel based. However type should not be any smaller unless the UI element displaying it has also shrunk.
If anybody out there has actually kept up with the SDK and Apples guidelines they would realize that Apple has been warning developers for years not to assume specific resolutions. Thus apps that have followed the guidelines and used the SDK properly should have little trouble on the iPad Mini. The worst apps will be those with lots of bit maps.
The problem is still going to be screen density. There is more information in my retina apps than the older versions. So as far as Apple's supposed guidelines go, they haven't taken that into account.
So what happens when type on a full sized screen is brought down to a small screen. Type size requirements go out the window, so to speak. So do complex mathematical equations. I've got a number of those apps. They were hard to read on the 10" iPad 2. Much better now. But no matter how we look at it, it will be much harder on a small screen. Those apps have slightly smaller numbers, and letters than before, but with much higher detail, making them easier to read. That will be much worse on the small, low Rez screen.
The apps will, likely, have to be reworked to exploit the display size and resolution -- just as for the new iPhone 5.
I just started playing around with iOS development again -- haven't really done anything for a few years. With Xcode 4.5 and iOS 6, there are a lot of new features that help the developer write apps that are resolution and screen-size independent. Here's a bit from an iOS 6 update tutorial:
Quote:
It’s not hard to design a user interface for a screen that is always guaranteed to be the same size, but if the screen’s frame can change, the positions and sizes of your UI elements also have to adapt to fit into these new dimensions.
Until now, if your designs were reasonably complex, you had to write a lot of code to support such adaptive layouts. You will be glad to hear that this is no longer the case – iOS 6 brings an awesome new feature to the iPhone and iPad: Auto Layout.
Not only does Auto Layout makes it easy to support different screen sizes in your apps, as a bonus it also makes internationalization almost trivial. You no longer have to make new nibs or storyboards for every language that you wish to support, and this includes right-to-left languages such as Hebrew or Arabic.
Well, sure. I just hate for someone really looking at those numbers, thinking they're real, and making plans based upon them to be disappointed, or frustrated, if the pricing is higher. We can see people coming here looking for real answers, and thinking they are here, when they likely aren't.
I'm not too worried about that. When Phil Schiller announces the price on stage, with the number projected up on a slide behind him, that'll drown out whatever noise gets posted on these forums!
It's always interesting trying to interpret what Apple is saying in these invites. "A little more" could simply mean more iPads, but little ones.
On the other hand, it could mean a new iPad, and a little more, as in a few more products.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
It could mean a slimmer iMac and Mac mini. Or iTunes. Or who knows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Exactly, who knows? Only the Shadow knows, but he's dead, so we can't ask him.
And "little" and "more" could not only refer to "size" and "functionality" respectively, but concern value, i.e., priced lower and delivering higher as well.
After all of the haranguing Steve did against such a device.
His desecration over at Apple continues unabated ....
However, if it's good kit, then I'll get the 16GB/WiFi+4G one to hold me over till iPad 4 -- which is said to be coming a few months later than per usual next year.
I was at the '07 WWDC where Steve was quite confidently saying that all you need to write apps was javascript. I guess he desecrated himself, then? Or, perhaps, Steve said whatever was expedient at the time, then as throughout his career.
An iPad mini starting out with a measley 8gb and an old, non-Retina screen all in the name of cost saving? Never would've happened under Steve. This is the beginning of our trip to Scullyville with Tim Cook as the bus driver.
it's facile comments like this that make reading the comments section of this site, less and less enjoyable!
But, I would like to see Apple set the price so that they own the market (again) for the next 2-3 years. The original $499 price did just that. I'am certain that, when setting the price bar in 2010, Apple recognized the fact that they would need to do this again in a few years.
In essence, Apple would be saying to customers and competitors, alike: "Here is what you should get in a tablet for $199, $249, $299...".
I was at the '07 WWDC where Steve was quite confidently saying that all you need to write apps was javascript. I guess he desecrated himself, then? Or, perhaps, Steve said whatever was expedient at the time, then as throughout his career.
Exactly - especially since it has been reported that a key Apple exec discussed a 7" iPad with Steve and Steve was NOT adamantly opposed to the idea.
They could. Someone pointed out that if they don't use the new in-cell touch panels there aren't any supply constraints and it's rather old tech so yields are high and prices lower. It's been around since the iphone 4.
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how Apple can use a 326 PPI 4:3 2048x1536 display in a 7.85" tablet that is half the price, lighter, and thinner than the 9.7" version while having at least the same battery life.
What if it doesn't need to be 2 x 1024x768 == 2048x1536?
Say 1.5 x 1024x768 == 1536x1152?
...Or any other reasonable pixel ratio that is cost effective and exploits the Apple advantages.
The consensus was, that for Apple to be competitive in the tablet market -- its offering would need to be priced under $1,100 -- bolder wags were looking for a price of $1,000!
Steve Jobs... And the price is $499. Boom!
Those folks were assuming it would just a full computer in tablet form. Like a modbook
Completely unreliable and totally made up sources that have no names and claim they have a clue just revealed to a website set up ten minutes ago that Apple has hired a special guest presenter to replace the boring and lackluster executives as well as perform the closing musical number
The consensus was, that for Apple to be competitive in the tablet market -- its offering would need to be priced under $1,100 -- bolder wags were looking for a price of $1,000!
Steve Jobs... And the price is $499. Boom!
Those folks were assuming it would just a full computer in tablet form. Like a modbook
It was far from that.
Yes... In some ways, it is so much less than "a full computer in tablet form"... in other ways it is so much more...
These forums were filled with comments like "it is worthless if it doesn't run a proper OS."
Tell that to the airline pilots, shopkeepers, educators, students, tourists, health care givers, speech-challenged...
Not only has the iPad redefined a personal computer... it is redefining a personal appliance and a "proper OS" for what many of us need to do.
Completely unreliable and totally made up sources that have no names and claim they have a clue just revealed to a website set up ten minutes ago that Apple has hired a special guest presenter to replace the boring and lackluster executives as well as perform the closing musical number
This mystery host? Deep Roy
I was hoping for the duo of Meg and Slim Whitman...
If it's worth doing... it's worth doing wrong... then yodeling about it!
Someone pointed out? Not really. If Apple is pricing this at $250, there's no way a retina screen will be included. Sorry, but I don't agree on that pricing. They are having problems as it is.
At $250 probably not. But there's no reason that the $250 model isn't based on the older 3GS panel type and the higher end models use the iPhone 4 or the current iPod Touch panel type. If there are 24 freaking SKUs that's a viable option...especially if they are using the newer iPod Touch panels and are supply constrained.
Quote:
I've got a lot of retina apps for my iPad that have small type that's simply too small to read if its used on a small screen. The UI would have to be reworked, as retina apps have a lot more information density than do older iPad apps.
You have old eyes. I have old eyes. Right before my near vision went to hell I could easily read very very small fonts on my iPhone 4. Folks younger than 40 are wondering what we are talking about.
A 44pt by 44pt target on the iPad is around a quarter inch instead of around a third on an inch. That's the size delta between a full sized iPad and a mini iPad.
Comments
I think 29.6 in square is plenty of room, even without considering the advantage of an interactive book.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodent
Apple stock is dropping and for a little iPad, a little event at a little theatre in San Jose so the Apple executives don't have to drive far and don't miss much work!
A few seconds ago, for today: AAPL up $14.23 up 2.23%
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how Apple can use a 326 PPI 4:3 2048x1536 display in a 7.85" tablet that is half the price, lighter, and thinner than the 9.7" version while having at least the same battery life.
Everyone seems to be unanimous about the iPad mini, and seeing the news leak in recent times from Apple, it should not be a surprise at all.. Will be very interesting to see the pricing of the mini if at all they release one. looking at their present product pr icings there will be a lot of over laps and the worse thing that can happen is their own products eating into each others business. Google your move..lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how Apple can use a 326 PPI 4:3 2048x1536 display in a 7.85" tablet that is half the price, lighter, and thinner than the 9.7" version while having at least the same battery life.
32nm A5X vs 45nm A5X (i.e. higher yields per wafer). Same kind of panel as in the iPod Touch 5th gen (cheaper type of panel than in the iPhone). Other cost savings just because we're 6 months later than the original iPad 3 launch.
$299 for the current iPod touch. Add the costs for a bigger panel and the A5X and you can guesstimate the price of a retina iPad mini viable around $399-$449 for 16GB...or $100-$50 cheaper than the current iPad. I favor $399 for price parity with the iPad 2 but you can go $449 if you like.
Come spring the 4th gen iPad will get the A6. $399 for a retina mini based on the A5X, $399 for the iPad 3 and $499 for a full sized iPad based on the A6X.
Or if you really prefer: $399 for the iPad 3 with 32nm A5X, $449 for the retina mini with the 32nm A5X and $499 for the iPad 4 with A6X.
Same battery life...well...smaller backlights and going 32nm?
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
I really don't think the screen is an issue. They could be using a number of different technologies, some bleeding edge.
Thanks for trying to point this out, but frankly I don't think people grasp this fact. IOS is not pixel based. However type should not be any smaller unless the UI element displaying it has also shrunk.
If anybody out there has actually kept up with the SDK and Apples guidelines they would realize that Apple has been warning developers for years not to assume specific resolutions. Thus apps that have followed the guidelines and used the SDK properly should have little trouble on the iPad Mini. The worst apps will be those with lots of bit maps.
The problem is still going to be screen density. There is more information in my retina apps than the older versions. So as far as Apple's supposed guidelines go, they haven't taken that into account.
So what happens when type on a full sized screen is brought down to a small screen. Type size requirements go out the window, so to speak. So do complex mathematical equations. I've got a number of those apps. They were hard to read on the 10" iPad 2. Much better now. But no matter how we look at it, it will be much harder on a small screen. Those apps have slightly smaller numbers, and letters than before, but with much higher detail, making them easier to read. That will be much worse on the small, low Rez screen.
The apps will, likely, have to be reworked to exploit the display size and resolution -- just as for the new iPhone 5.
I just started playing around with iOS development again -- haven't really done anything for a few years. With Xcode 4.5 and iOS 6, there are a lot of new features that help the developer write apps that are resolution and screen-size independent. Here's a bit from an iOS 6 update tutorial:
Quote:
It’s not hard to design a user interface for a screen that is always guaranteed to be the same size, but if the screen’s frame can change, the positions and sizes of your UI elements also have to adapt to fit into these new dimensions.
Until now, if your designs were reasonably complex, you had to write a lot of code to support such adaptive layouts. You will be glad to hear that this is no longer the case – iOS 6 brings an awesome new feature to the iPhone and iPad: Auto Layout.
Not only does Auto Layout makes it easy to support different screen sizes in your apps, as a bonus it also makes internationalization almost trivial. You no longer have to make new nibs or storyboards for every language that you wish to support, and this includes right-to-left languages such as Hebrew or Arabic.
http://www.raywenderlich.com/20881/beginning-auto-layout-part-1-of-2
So, the developer's job is getting easier in this area -- and it should be less of a problem in the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Well, sure. I just hate for someone really looking at those numbers, thinking they're real, and making plans based upon them to be disappointed, or frustrated, if the pricing is higher. We can see people coming here looking for real answers, and thinking they are here, when they likely aren't.
I'm not too worried about that. When Phil Schiller announces the price on stage, with the number projected up on a slide behind him, that'll drown out whatever noise gets posted on these forums!
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
It's always interesting trying to interpret what Apple is saying in these invites. "A little more" could simply mean more iPads, but little ones.
On the other hand, it could mean a new iPad, and a little more, as in a few more products.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
It could mean a slimmer iMac and Mac mini. Or iTunes. Or who knows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Exactly, who knows? Only the Shadow knows, but he's dead, so we can't ask him.
And "little" and "more" could not only refer to "size" and "functionality" respectively, but concern value, i.e., priced lower and delivering higher as well.
So it's actually true, then.
It's really gonna actually happen after all.
After all of the haranguing Steve did against such a device.
His desecration over at Apple continues unabated ....
However, if it's good kit, then I'll get the 16GB/WiFi+4G one to hold me over till iPad 4 -- which is said
to be coming a few months later than per usual next year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxMacCary
Wow ....
So it's actually true, then.
It's really gonna actually happen after all.
After all of the haranguing Steve did against such a device.
His desecration over at Apple continues unabated ....
However, if it's good kit, then I'll get the 16GB/WiFi+4G one to hold me over till iPad 4 -- which is said
to be coming a few months later than per usual next year.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }I was at the '07 WWDC where Steve was quite confidently saying that all you need to write apps was javascript. I guess he desecrated himself, then? Or, perhaps, Steve said whatever was expedient at the time, then as throughout his career.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacVicta
An iPad mini starting out with a measley 8gb and an old, non-Retina screen all in the name of cost saving? Never would've happened under Steve. This is the beginning of our trip to Scullyville with Tim Cook as the bus driver.
it's facile comments like this that make reading the comments section of this site, less and less enjoyable!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
You are probably right!
But, I would like to see Apple set the price so that they own the market (again) for the next 2-3 years. The original $499 price did just that. I'am certain that, when setting the price bar in 2010, Apple recognized the fact that they would need to do this again in a few years.
In essence, Apple would be saying to customers and competitors, alike: "Here is what you should get in a tablet for $199, $249, $299...".
I agree. And while we are all a bit concerned with loss of quality, the reality of a market disruptor is an even bigger concern (at the moment). And let's not forget that while a few in this forum think that a non-retina display is a degradation of quality, the masses don't give a crap and will still see the iPad Air as an improved device from the Nexus and Fire. Here's a good article on the price umbrella: http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykosner/2012/07/22/apple-will-sell-a-smaller-ipad-or-be-disrupted-from-the-bottom-up-by-google-and-amazon/
Exactly - especially since it has been reported that a key Apple exec discussed a 7" iPad with Steve and Steve was NOT adamantly opposed to the idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
They could. Someone pointed out that if they don't use the new in-cell touch panels there aren't any supply constraints and it's rather old tech so yields are high and prices lower. It's been around since the iphone 4.
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how Apple can use a 326 PPI 4:3 2048x1536 display in a 7.85" tablet that is half the price, lighter, and thinner than the 9.7" version while having at least the same battery life.
What if it doesn't need to be 2 x 1024x768 == 2048x1536?
Say 1.5 x 1024x768 == 1536x1152?
...Or any other reasonable pixel ratio that is cost effective and exploits the Apple advantages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Hike up that skirt, Apple. Show me some of that good ol' iMac.
Yes my friend. we need a new iMac retina. Woo hoo.
Those folks were assuming it would just a full computer in tablet form. Like a modbook
It was far from that.
Completely unreliable and totally made up sources that have no names and claim they have a clue just revealed to a website set up ten minutes ago that Apple has hired a special guest presenter to replace the boring and lackluster executives as well as perform the closing musical number
This mystery host? Deep Roy
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
The consensus was, that for Apple to be competitive in the tablet market -- its offering would need to be priced under $1,100 -- bolder wags were looking for a price of $1,000!
Steve Jobs... And the price is $499. Boom!
Those folks were assuming it would just a full computer in tablet form. Like a modbook
It was far from that.
Yes... In some ways, it is so much less than "a full computer in tablet form"... in other ways it is so much more...
These forums were filled with comments like "it is worthless if it doesn't run a proper OS."
Tell that to the airline pilots, shopkeepers, educators, students, tourists, health care givers, speech-challenged...
Not only has the iPad redefined a personal computer... it is redefining a personal appliance and a "proper OS" for what many of us need to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!!!!?!
Completely unreliable and totally made up sources that have no names and claim they have a clue just revealed to a website set up ten minutes ago that Apple has hired a special guest presenter to replace the boring and lackluster executives as well as perform the closing musical number
This mystery host? Deep Roy
I was hoping for the duo of Meg and Slim Whitman...
If it's worth doing... it's worth doing wrong... then yodeling about it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Someone pointed out? Not really. If Apple is pricing this at $250, there's no way a retina screen will be included. Sorry, but I don't agree on that pricing. They are having problems as it is.
At $250 probably not. But there's no reason that the $250 model isn't based on the older 3GS panel type and the higher end models use the iPhone 4 or the current iPod Touch panel type. If there are 24 freaking SKUs that's a viable option...especially if they are using the newer iPod Touch panels and are supply constrained.
Quote:
I've got a lot of retina apps for my iPad that have small type that's simply too small to read if its used on a small screen. The UI would have to be reworked, as retina apps have a lot more information density than do older iPad apps.
You have old eyes. I have old eyes. Right before my near vision went to hell I could easily read very very small fonts on my iPhone 4. Folks younger than 40 are wondering what we are talking about.
A 44pt by 44pt target on the iPad is around a quarter inch instead of around a third on an inch. That's the size delta between a full sized iPad and a mini iPad.