It isn't bias. The market for this phone is really clear in my mind and I'm getting very worried for Apple with this latest Google response. It's beginning to feel a little like 1995 around here again.
Apple absolutely needs LTE in their flagship phone of which they produce one a year and also it is the phone that justifes fat margins and a minimum price of $650 per phone.
The Nexus line has not been a true flagship line but more like a baseline platform target for where Android should minimally be for the next year.
Apple has had two quarters now where the first hit their targets but did not hit their whisper number and now a quarter where they just outright didn't hit their own targets. It is clear that the slowing of growth with regard to Apple is OUTSIDE of the United States. In the United States, subsidy model helps hide the true cost of buying an iPhone. Outside the U.S. it is a completely different story. This phone is clearly targeted for stunting and stopping the growth of Apple outside the U.S. It is $300-$350 out the door, barely half the price of an iPhone. It has the latest 3G standard but doesn't sweat having a divided 4G standard.
It is clear U.S. carriers are using 4G/LTE to push people into more expensive plans, take away their data options, lock phones to their network again, etc.
The Samsung Galaxy S3 OUTSIDE the U.S. has 3G and a quad-core processor. Within the U.S. it has a dual-core and LTE. Samsung has had no problem selling them worldwide.
Google's eco-system is inferior to Apple's but they are now beating Apple on price, beating them on most specs and it appears their OS is at least on par if perhaps not better depending upon your view.
That doesn't mean Apple dies overnight. It doesn't mean Apple has no momentum to sustain them.
It does mean we should be concerned. Apple has already fired their holiday season shot. This isn't six months later and we all don't mind waiting until close to Christmas knowing that Apple will produce something amazing again.
This....this is six days later.
Fully agree. I see this as an emerging threat to Apple. I'll ride the stock as long as its good. But in the long run, I am skeptical. While there's no certainty, I can see a rerun of Windows-Mac episode.
A lot of Apple blogs are US and more broadly, first world centric. The reality, however, is that, this is not where the growth markets are anymore. And given long term economic trajectories, it's unlikely that substantial growth will happen in the first world for years to come. But today's growth markets are tough slogging for Apple. China is a notable exception. But Apple is going to find India/South Asia, South-East Asia and Africa far tougher to crack.
And the competition (not just the Google Nexus lineup) has a winning strategy here. Just undercut on price. Mobile users in that part of the world rely on secondary markets to allow them to pay for updates every year. They don't rely on subsidy plans....particularly given the shabby state of personal credit markets there. At $300, the initial layout will be really cheap, and the disposal price will be even lower (so more buyers). And this is isn't for run of the mill crappy Nokias (which many in those areas have already paid more than $300 for, in the past). This is decent hardware (even if it's not accepted as such by the finicky members of this forum).
I see this as a brilliant strategy on the part of Google and the Android OEMs (Nokia is pursuing a somewhat similar strategy with Windows Phone). They will target markets that Apple has no desire to compete in, or is struggling to do so in. They'll aim to capture Apple's potential future users and get them to commit to their ecosystem before Apple can gain traction. And it's going to be tough for Apple to compete with a phone, mini-tab and full size tablet that are all $100 more expensive (25% to 50% more depending on the product) each. Oh and consumers don't really care that much about the "ecosystem" in that part of the world. App makers really haven't targetted them wholesale to begin with. So the app disparity is less. And buying media content (music, movies, etc.) is exceptionally rare, rather than the norm. So you won't find too many who are worried about their iTunes library.
I am curious to see how Apple will attack these markets. But so far, I don't think they are even trying. They don't need to. They sell every device they maket. But the day is coming, when this won't be true anymore. Hopefully, by then, my AAPL will be well past the $1000 mark.....
You were also guessing it used an OLED pentile display too weren't you?;)
I wasn't. I was using the history of GPU performance on Android. I didn't think that a 10" display could be OLED at a cost effective price yet, but I also didn't care.
I wasn't. I was using the history of GPU performance on Android. I didn't think that a 10" display could be OLED at a cost effective price yet, but I also didn't care.
Damn it. Yet another day goes by without catching you . . .
Fully agree. I see this as an emerging threat to Apple. I'll ride the stock as long as its good. But in the long run, I am skeptical. While there's no certainty, I can see a rerun of Windows-Mac episode.
A lot of Apple blogs are US and more broadly, first world centric. The reality, however, is that, this is not where the growth markets are anymore. And given long term economic trajectories, it's unlikely that substantial growth will happen in the first world for years to come. But today's growth markets are tough slogging for Apple. China is a notable exception. But Apple is going to find India/South Asia, South-East Asia and Africa far tougher to crack.
And the competition (not just the Google Nexus lineup) has a winning strategy here. Just undercut on price. Mobile users in that part of the world rely on secondary markets to allow them to pay for updates every year. They don't rely on subsidy plans....particularly given the shabby state of personal credit markets there. At $300, the initial layout will be really cheap, and the disposal price will be even lower (so more buyers). And this is isn't for run of the mill crappy Nokias (which many in those areas have already paid more than $300 for, in the past). This is decent hardware (even if it's not accepted as such by the finicky members of this forum).
I see this as a brilliant strategy on the part of Google and the Android OEMs (Nokia is pursuing a somewhat similar strategy with Windows Phone). They will target markets that Apple has no desire to compete in, or is struggling to do so in. They'll aim to capture Apple's potential future users and get them to commit to their ecosystem before Apple can gain traction. And it's going to be tough for Apple to compete with a phone, mini-tab and full size tablet that are all $100 more expensive (25% to 50% more depending on the product) each. Oh and consumers don't really care that much about the "ecosystem" in that part of the world. App makers really haven't targetted them wholesale to begin with. So the app disparity is less. And buying media content (music, movies, etc.) is exceptionally rare, rather than the norm. So you won't find too many who are worried about their iTunes library.
I am curious to see how Apple will attack these markets. But so far, I don't think they are even trying. They don't need to. They sell every device they maket. But the day is coming, when this won't be true anymore. Hopefully, by then, my AAPL will be well past the $1000 mark.....
I agree with everything you said except for the AAPL stock being $1000 some day, which I doubt will ever happen.
Because they would split it long before that happens.
Really? The last split was in, what, 2004. And we only heard one hinting of a split rumor recently. It wasn't picked up or confirmed by anywhere else.
It doesn't make sense that apple has this huge part of its fan base that can't afford to buy one share. Wouldn't they want to attract more investors, even those who have only a few hundred to invest at a time?
It doesn't make sense that apple has this huge part of its fan base that can't afford to buy one share. Wouldn't they want to attract more investors, even those who have only a few hundred to invest at a time?
I've been told that we don't matter at all in that regard, and that people who buy shares that do matter "can afford them at this price".
Nexus 10 (exynos 5 Dual) vs Ipad 4 (A6) performance. Is this true???
Exynos 5 Dual scores and comparison
SunSpider: (lower is better)
V8: (higher is better)
Octane: (higher is better)
Exynos 5 Dual (
Apple A6 (
Intel Atom Z2460 (
Snapdragon S4 (
Tegra 3
SunSpider
668.5
908
1086.6
1608
1737.7
V8
3871
1533
2209
1507
1162
Octane
3465
1672
2048
1280
1131
* The benchmark scores listed above are courtesy of AnandTech.
Anand actually has a Nexus 10 now and their performance preview doesn't show numbers like that. I think the above numbers are for Chromebook and the CPU runs lower clock-speed in Nexus 10:
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Just wait until we see the performance of that GPU and battery life from playing a 1080p movie. I'm guessing the iPad (4) will win.
You were also guessing it used an OLED pentile display too weren't you?
Haha. Can't believe it's 20 years since I saw them live.
Nexus 10 (exynos 5 Dual) vs Ipad 4 (A6) performance. Is this true???
Exynos 5 Dual scores and comparison
SunSpider: (lower is better)
V8: (higher is better)
Octane: (higher is better)
Exynos 5 Dual (
Apple A6 (
Intel Atom Z2460 (
Snapdragon S4 (
Tegra 3
SunSpider
668.5
908
1086.6
1608
1737.7
V8
3871
1533
2209
1507
1162
Octane
3465
1672
2048
1280
1131
* The benchmark scores listed above are courtesy of AnandTech.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman
It isn't bias. The market for this phone is really clear in my mind and I'm getting very worried for Apple with this latest Google response. It's beginning to feel a little like 1995 around here again.
Apple absolutely needs LTE in their flagship phone of which they produce one a year and also it is the phone that justifes fat margins and a minimum price of $650 per phone.
The Nexus line has not been a true flagship line but more like a baseline platform target for where Android should minimally be for the next year.
Apple has had two quarters now where the first hit their targets but did not hit their whisper number and now a quarter where they just outright didn't hit their own targets. It is clear that the slowing of growth with regard to Apple is OUTSIDE of the United States. In the United States, subsidy model helps hide the true cost of buying an iPhone. Outside the U.S. it is a completely different story. This phone is clearly targeted for stunting and stopping the growth of Apple outside the U.S. It is $300-$350 out the door, barely half the price of an iPhone. It has the latest 3G standard but doesn't sweat having a divided 4G standard.
It is clear U.S. carriers are using 4G/LTE to push people into more expensive plans, take away their data options, lock phones to their network again, etc.
The Samsung Galaxy S3 OUTSIDE the U.S. has 3G and a quad-core processor. Within the U.S. it has a dual-core and LTE. Samsung has had no problem selling them worldwide.
Google's eco-system is inferior to Apple's but they are now beating Apple on price, beating them on most specs and it appears their OS is at least on par if perhaps not better depending upon your view.
That doesn't mean Apple dies overnight. It doesn't mean Apple has no momentum to sustain them.
It does mean we should be concerned. Apple has already fired their holiday season shot. This isn't six months later and we all don't mind waiting until close to Christmas knowing that Apple will produce something amazing again.
This....this is six days later.
Fully agree. I see this as an emerging threat to Apple. I'll ride the stock as long as its good. But in the long run, I am skeptical. While there's no certainty, I can see a rerun of Windows-Mac episode.
A lot of Apple blogs are US and more broadly, first world centric. The reality, however, is that, this is not where the growth markets are anymore. And given long term economic trajectories, it's unlikely that substantial growth will happen in the first world for years to come. But today's growth markets are tough slogging for Apple. China is a notable exception. But Apple is going to find India/South Asia, South-East Asia and Africa far tougher to crack.
And the competition (not just the Google Nexus lineup) has a winning strategy here. Just undercut on price. Mobile users in that part of the world rely on secondary markets to allow them to pay for updates every year. They don't rely on subsidy plans....particularly given the shabby state of personal credit markets there. At $300, the initial layout will be really cheap, and the disposal price will be even lower (so more buyers). And this is isn't for run of the mill crappy Nokias (which many in those areas have already paid more than $300 for, in the past). This is decent hardware (even if it's not accepted as such by the finicky members of this forum).
I see this as a brilliant strategy on the part of Google and the Android OEMs (Nokia is pursuing a somewhat similar strategy with Windows Phone). They will target markets that Apple has no desire to compete in, or is struggling to do so in. They'll aim to capture Apple's potential future users and get them to commit to their ecosystem before Apple can gain traction. And it's going to be tough for Apple to compete with a phone, mini-tab and full size tablet that are all $100 more expensive (25% to 50% more depending on the product) each. Oh and consumers don't really care that much about the "ecosystem" in that part of the world. App makers really haven't targetted them wholesale to begin with. So the app disparity is less. And buying media content (music, movies, etc.) is exceptionally rare, rather than the norm. So you won't find too many who are worried about their iTunes library.
I am curious to see how Apple will attack these markets. But so far, I don't think they are even trying. They don't need to. They sell every device they maket. But the day is coming, when this won't be true anymore. Hopefully, by then, my AAPL will be well past the $1000 mark.....
I wasn't. I was using the history of GPU performance on Android. I didn't think that a 10" display could be OLED at a cost effective price yet, but I also didn't care.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I wasn't. I was using the history of GPU performance on Android. I didn't think that a 10" display could be OLED at a cost effective price yet, but I also didn't care.
Damn it. Yet another day goes by without catching you . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
I must say what a stupid day to announce this. Here in the USA all the news coverage is focused on hurricane Sandy. This will get zero news coverage.
That's the point. They don't want it to get news coverage.
Originally Posted by gogo2000
Nexus 10 (exynos 5 Dual) vs Ipad 4 (A6) performance. Is this true???
Exynos 5 Dual scores and comparison
SunSpider: (lower is better)
V8: (higher is better)
Octane: (higher is better)
Exynos 5 Dual (
Apple A6 (
Intel Atom Z2460 (
Snapdragon S4 (
Tegra 3
SunSpider
668.5
908
1086.6
1608
1737.7
V8
3871
1533
2209
1507
1162
Octane
3465
1672
2048
1280
1131
Wow, those specs are crazy. Although it does not seem fair to compare it with the A6 as its a phone processor. It should be compared to the A6X
At least I don't but iTurd
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez
Wow, those specs are crazy. Although it does not seem fair to compare it with the A6 as its a phone processor. It should be compared to the A6X
It won't be much different as those are web benchmarks based on CPU. A6X has the same CPU with beefed up GPU.
Though you have to recognize it isn't all CPU, part of it is new version of Android/Chrome that is now faster.
Pure CPU, the A15 running at 1.7GHz is definitely going to be faster than a Apple Custom Krait like core running 1.4 GHz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz
Fully agree. I see this as an emerging threat to Apple. I'll ride the stock as long as its good. But in the long run, I am skeptical. While there's no certainty, I can see a rerun of Windows-Mac episode.
A lot of Apple blogs are US and more broadly, first world centric. The reality, however, is that, this is not where the growth markets are anymore. And given long term economic trajectories, it's unlikely that substantial growth will happen in the first world for years to come. But today's growth markets are tough slogging for Apple. China is a notable exception. But Apple is going to find India/South Asia, South-East Asia and Africa far tougher to crack.
And the competition (not just the Google Nexus lineup) has a winning strategy here. Just undercut on price. Mobile users in that part of the world rely on secondary markets to allow them to pay for updates every year. They don't rely on subsidy plans....particularly given the shabby state of personal credit markets there. At $300, the initial layout will be really cheap, and the disposal price will be even lower (so more buyers). And this is isn't for run of the mill crappy Nokias (which many in those areas have already paid more than $300 for, in the past). This is decent hardware (even if it's not accepted as such by the finicky members of this forum).
I see this as a brilliant strategy on the part of Google and the Android OEMs (Nokia is pursuing a somewhat similar strategy with Windows Phone). They will target markets that Apple has no desire to compete in, or is struggling to do so in. They'll aim to capture Apple's potential future users and get them to commit to their ecosystem before Apple can gain traction. And it's going to be tough for Apple to compete with a phone, mini-tab and full size tablet that are all $100 more expensive (25% to 50% more depending on the product) each. Oh and consumers don't really care that much about the "ecosystem" in that part of the world. App makers really haven't targetted them wholesale to begin with. So the app disparity is less. And buying media content (music, movies, etc.) is exceptionally rare, rather than the norm. So you won't find too many who are worried about their iTunes library.
I am curious to see how Apple will attack these markets. But so far, I don't think they are even trying. They don't need to. They sell every device they maket. But the day is coming, when this won't be true anymore. Hopefully, by then, my AAPL will be well past the $1000 mark.....
I agree with everything you said except for the AAPL stock being $1000 some day, which I doubt will ever happen.
Originally Posted by period
I agree with everything you said except for the AAPL stock being $1000 some day, which I doubt will ever happen.
Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Originally Posted by period
I agree with everything you said except for the AAPL stock being $1000 some day, which I doubt will ever happen.
Why?
Because they would split it long before that happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton
Because they would split it long before that happens.
Evidence?
Originally Posted by tonton
Because they would split it long before that happens.
Really? The last split was in, what, 2004. And we only heard one hinting of a split rumor recently. It wasn't picked up or confirmed by anywhere else.
It doesn't make sense that apple has this huge part of its fan base that can't afford to buy one share. Wouldn't they want to attract more investors, even those who have only a few hundred to invest at a time?
Originally Posted by tonton
It doesn't make sense that apple has this huge part of its fan base that can't afford to buy one share. Wouldn't they want to attract more investors, even those who have only a few hundred to invest at a time?
I've been told that we don't matter at all in that regard, and that people who buy shares that do matter "can afford them at this price".
Quote:
Originally Posted by gogo2000
Nexus 10 (exynos 5 Dual) vs Ipad 4 (A6) performance. Is this true???
Exynos 5 Dual scores and comparison
SunSpider: (lower is better)
V8: (higher is better)
Octane: (higher is better)
Exynos 5 Dual (
Apple A6 (
Intel Atom Z2460 (
Snapdragon S4 (
Tegra 3
SunSpider
668.5
908
1086.6
1608
1737.7
V8
3871
1533
2209
1507
1162
Octane
3465
1672
2048
1280
1131
* The benchmark scores listed above are courtesy of AnandTech.
Anand actually has a Nexus 10 now and their performance preview doesn't show numbers like that. I think the above numbers are for Chromebook and the CPU runs lower clock-speed in Nexus 10:
Nexus 10 gets:
SunSpider: 1384 ( Lower is better)
Octane: 2748
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6425/google-nexus-4-and-nexus-10-review