The Forstall announcement is a bit of a surprise. I'd be interested to learn what's behind it. It has to be more than "mapgate". Given that he'll stay on as an advisor, it may have been Forstall's own desire to leave, rather than Apple wanting him to go. Letting Ive take on responsibility for the UI is welcome news. Someone needs to reign in the craziness and rampant inconsistency.
The only thing surprising about the announcement of the departure of Browett is how soon it came. Based on what I read and heard about his reputation, and his moves in his tenure at Apple, I knew he wouldn't last long. But, I thought he'd last longer than he did. My question is, why the hell did Cook even hire him in the first place? Was he so desperate to replace Johnson that he overlooked Browett's baggage? Browett always seemed like a terrible fit for the role at Apple. I think his hasty departure proves that out.
Your comment got me thinking... maybe he made a move to leave Apple just like Bob Mansfield did. I remember reading an article about Bob Mansfield new role and how he was being paid a hefty amount just to stay on as an advisor.
You won't be able to test for the PE until you have the years under the PE in the first place to sign off on your work.
Hardware Engineering is a completely different beast than Mechanical Engineering and sorry, but Software Engineer is a title, not a discipline. There are no Laws of Software Engineering. We aren't discussing universal applications of Heat Transfer or Power Systems. Just because you've had morons graduate in Hardware Engineering takes nothing away from reality--Computer Science is not an Engineering Discipline.
There is a reason it takes decades before disciplines become Engineering Disciplines. It took Mechanical. Electrical, Chemical, Structural, Civil and more 60+ years for their status to be codified.
Software Engineer is a major Universities are pushing because the IT Industry called Software Programming and Engineering title long before it could justify it. They still cannot. It is the same reason Electrical Engineering in most ABET accredited US Universities oversee the CS Departments and how come half of the curriculum is EE based.
With your Undgrad in 1982 you damn well know there was no such thing as a Software Engineering Field. It was Computer Science. Hell, when I graduated in '93 and later in '96 it was just at the tail end of '98 when Computer Engineering was beginning to be recognized as an Engineering Field.
There's probably a waiver for the FE exam and given that the first tests are next year I think they'll have to waive the 4 year requirement for working under another SwE PE. I've gone through the SwE PE exam topics and I'm fairly confident I've gotten the requisite education and experience. But it's not really what I want to do when I grow up but my wife tells me I can't be a coder forever. She's right in that there are few coders over 50. Most hang up their spurs and go into management. Been there, done that, hated it.
There is too a SwE field...there's been one since 1968 to serve the military industrial complex's voracious appetite for software. IEEE has a SWEBOK and of course there's all the CMMI crap. So 45 years of existence as a discipline.
For the development of large, complex systems and/or those that require very high quality (weapon systems, space systems, etc) you need a great deal of rigor or you have a high probability of ending up as an example for others as to what a software disaster looks like.
For pretty much all other forms of software products it's a negative in terms of time to market and ROI to go beyond the basics of common "good" software development practices (CM, some form of requirements management, simple code reviews, etc). You need a SwE on those dev teams like another hole in the head.
I went to Maryland...the other major CS school besides CMU with an excessive (some might have said unhealthy) focus on SwE. In the early 80s our freshmen CS courses were two weeder courses designed by Harlan Mills (there's an iEEE award for software engineering named after him). Proofs for algorithmic speed and correctness, formal methods, etc. Needless to say the ranks were winnowed quite a bit.
Complain all you like, I'll even agree that its not really engineering but NCEES disagrees with both of us. Next year there will be SwE PEs licensed (okay tested...the state boards do the licensing) by the same organization that licenses all other PEs in the US...at least in Alabama, Delaware, Florida, Michigan, Missouri, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Texas, and Virginia.
No disrespect to Ive, but what does a hardware design guy know about software UI design? they're two different worlds.
They aren't two completely different worlds. Some of the best human factors folks have a industrial engineering background. His focus on design, prototyping and the complete user experience is the same general process as for UI designs.
MDA gave Ive a personal achievement award in 2008 for
"his design of the Apple IPhone and its user interface. The physical design of the IPhone and its intuitive user interface has completely redefined the mobile phone as we know it. The IPhone is arguably the most talked about consumer-electronics device that has hit the market in the last 5 years.
Ive has designed the best implementation of a touch UI, this with the Safari web browser has definitely pushed mobile content into the forefront of the consumer consciousness. It sets the bar very high for all present and future competitors and as such, is shaking the mobile phone industry. We look forward to seeing Ive's design innovation continuing to challenge the mobile world."
"They hate me! They hate me, and I don't know why. They don't appreciate my genius. Just the other day, I walked into an Apple Store and there were employees just standing around, TALKING to customers! What do they think we're paying them for? Man the registers or get out. And then, oh~, and then I said to Tim, I said, 'We could save a bundle if we only had one screen back there in the Genius bar instead of two, or no screens and one of those boards where you put the letters up individually,' and he just GLARED at me! I mean, yeah, he's CEO, but I'm the retail guy. I know these things!"
Apple ought to bring out a bicycle or something, just for the hell of it.
I would LOVE that! Being a cyclist. They even have someone take in their road bike in their Jobs @ Corporate promo video on this page (clock in at 3'40''): http://www.apple.com/jobs/us/corporate.html
Maybe this link works. F*** do I miss the Activity Monitor window
"The current state of the Dixons/currys retail chain should have said more than enough about this guys ability to manage a large retail operation....let alone an international retail operation.
The service provided at these outlets can best be described as consistently appalling. There is an extremely limited product knowledge available on the sales floor, and more often than not questions about products are not answered or simply plain wrong.
It is extremely worrying that one of the reasons this guy has been selected is because of his 'service focus' I would suggest that an exec fromJohn Lewis or Marks and Spencers would be more in line with the apple brand..
I can only imagine that apple were really scraping the barrel if he is the best they found....and i'm basing this opinion on the spectacularly poor performance his current brands demonstrate in the areas of service...
Tim Cook obviously has never visited on of the Dixons/Currys Stores.....shame.."
I had just begun to use the Reminders app in iOS 5. In iOS6, however, the ability to swipe right-to-left between Reminders lists was lost. Now, I need to tap a drop down list in the upper-left corner and the switch to a new list-ruined it for me. That lost iOS 5 feature borked my workflow.
It's not gone. You just have to swipe the list name. It made deleting item easier since you can now swipe to delete on an item.
Maybe Scott will come back and start Apple 3.0 one day...
He looks like a maniac, and Apple is too big now for someone like him (maybe). Let him create his own NEXT.
There are similarities.
Jobs was ousted from Apple because he was acting like he was the CEO when he wasn't. Even though he started the company, he really didn't have the skills to run it. His days in the wilderness (Next, Pixar, etc.) were when he really learned his most important lessons on how to run and lead companies. He could never have reached his potential without that experience. On the other hand, that failure didn't break him, as it would most people. After an understandable reflective pause, he bounced back, used it as a learning experience, and moved ahead.
The question is, what will Scott do? Can he understand and deal with his limitations, learn from his mistakes, master his ego, and leverage his talents? Or will he lower the blinkers and just get bitter?
Good news as far as I'm concerned. Maybe Federighi will allow us to download individual songs again in iTunes Match. And maybe we can even delete them too. All were possible and flawless in iOS 5. Wouldn't that would be revolutionary.
Forstall's exit says a lot about who is in control at Apple. This is a strong, gutsy move by Cook, one I would have never predicted given Forstall's long tenure and key position. But Jobs wouldn't and didn't hand over the company to someone not up to the job.
Today, John Gruber suggested that Forstall's "design taste, engineering management, abrasive style and the whole iOS Maps thing" led to his demise. Gruber described him as a polarizing executive.
Comments
This feels like a good move and for me will ivagarate iOS.
Looking forward to the future of osx and iOS.:smokey:
Quote:
Originally Posted by initiator
The Forstall announcement is a bit of a surprise. I'd be interested to learn what's behind it. It has to be more than "mapgate". Given that he'll stay on as an advisor, it may have been Forstall's own desire to leave, rather than Apple wanting him to go. Letting Ive take on responsibility for the UI is welcome news. Someone needs to reign in the craziness and rampant inconsistency.
The only thing surprising about the announcement of the departure of Browett is how soon it came. Based on what I read and heard about his reputation, and his moves in his tenure at Apple, I knew he wouldn't last long. But, I thought he'd last longer than he did. My question is, why the hell did Cook even hire him in the first place? Was he so desperate to replace Johnson that he overlooked Browett's baggage? Browett always seemed like a terrible fit for the role at Apple. I think his hasty departure proves that out.
Your comment got me thinking... maybe he made a move to leave Apple just like Bob Mansfield did. I remember reading an article about Bob Mansfield new role and how he was being paid a hefty amount just to stay on as an advisor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
You won't be able to test for the PE until you have the years under the PE in the first place to sign off on your work.
Hardware Engineering is a completely different beast than Mechanical Engineering and sorry, but Software Engineer is a title, not a discipline. There are no Laws of Software Engineering. We aren't discussing universal applications of Heat Transfer or Power Systems. Just because you've had morons graduate in Hardware Engineering takes nothing away from reality--Computer Science is not an Engineering Discipline.
There is a reason it takes decades before disciplines become Engineering Disciplines. It took Mechanical. Electrical, Chemical, Structural, Civil and more 60+ years for their status to be codified.
Software Engineer is a major Universities are pushing because the IT Industry called Software Programming and Engineering title long before it could justify it. They still cannot. It is the same reason Electrical Engineering in most ABET accredited US Universities oversee the CS Departments and how come half of the curriculum is EE based.
With your Undgrad in 1982 you damn well know there was no such thing as a Software Engineering Field. It was Computer Science. Hell, when I graduated in '93 and later in '96 it was just at the tail end of '98 when Computer Engineering was beginning to be recognized as an Engineering Field.
http://ncees.org/About_NCEES/News/News_Pages/New_PE_Software_exam.php
There's probably a waiver for the FE exam and given that the first tests are next year I think they'll have to waive the 4 year requirement for working under another SwE PE. I've gone through the SwE PE exam topics and I'm fairly confident I've gotten the requisite education and experience. But it's not really what I want to do when I grow up but my wife tells me I can't be a coder forever. She's right in that there are few coders over 50. Most hang up their spurs and go into management. Been there, done that, hated it.
There is too a SwE field...there's been one since 1968 to serve the military industrial complex's voracious appetite for software. IEEE has a SWEBOK and of course there's all the CMMI crap. So 45 years of existence as a discipline.
For the development of large, complex systems and/or those that require very high quality (weapon systems, space systems, etc) you need a great deal of rigor or you have a high probability of ending up as an example for others as to what a software disaster looks like.
For pretty much all other forms of software products it's a negative in terms of time to market and ROI to go beyond the basics of common "good" software development practices (CM, some form of requirements management, simple code reviews, etc). You need a SwE on those dev teams like another hole in the head.
I went to Maryland...the other major CS school besides CMU with an excessive (some might have said unhealthy) focus on SwE. In the early 80s our freshmen CS courses were two weeder courses designed by Harlan Mills (there's an iEEE award for software engineering named after him). Proofs for algorithmic speed and correctness, formal methods, etc. Needless to say the ranks were winnowed quite a bit.
Complain all you like, I'll even agree that its not really engineering but NCEES disagrees with both of us. Next year there will be SwE PEs licensed (okay tested...the state boards do the licensing) by the same organization that licenses all other PEs in the US...at least in Alabama, Delaware, Florida, Michigan, Missouri, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Texas, and Virginia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shameer Mulji
No disrespect to Ive, but what does a hardware design guy know about software UI design? they're two different worlds.
They aren't two completely different worlds. Some of the best human factors folks have a industrial engineering background. His focus on design, prototyping and the complete user experience is the same general process as for UI designs.
MDA gave Ive a personal achievement award in 2008 for
"his design of the Apple IPhone and its user interface. The physical design of the IPhone and its intuitive user interface has completely redefined the mobile phone as we know it. The IPhone is arguably the most talked about consumer-electronics device that has hit the market in the last 5 years.
Ive has designed the best implementation of a touch UI, this with the Safari web browser has definitely pushed mobile content into the forefront of the consumer consciousness. It sets the bar very high for all present and future competitors and as such, is shaking the mobile phone industry. We look forward to seeing Ive's design innovation continuing to challenge the mobile world."
http://www.themda.org/latest/mda-awards-2008.php
He'll have UI designers under him.
Too funny!
I would LOVE that! Being a cyclist. They even have someone take in their road bike in their Jobs @ Corporate promo video on this page (clock in at 3'40''):
http://www.apple.com/jobs/us/corporate.html
Maybe this link works. F*** do I miss the Activity Monitor window
My post from Feb when he was appointed..
"The current state of the Dixons/currys retail chain should have said more than enough about this guys ability to manage a large retail operation....let alone an international retail operation.
The service provided at these outlets can best be described as consistently appalling. There is an extremely limited product knowledge available on the sales floor, and more often than not questions about products are not answered or simply plain wrong.
It is extremely worrying that one of the reasons this guy has been selected is because of his 'service focus' I would suggest that an exec fromJohn Lewis or Marks and Spencers would be more in line with the apple brand..
I can only imagine that apple were really scraping the barrel if he is the best they found....and i'm basing this opinion on the spectacularly poor performance his current brands demonstrate in the areas of service...
Tim Cook obviously has never visited on of the Dixons/Currys Stores.....shame.."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carthusia
I had just begun to use the Reminders app in iOS 5. In iOS6, however, the ability to swipe right-to-left between Reminders lists was lost. Now, I need to tap a drop down list in the upper-left corner and the switch to a new list-ruined it for me. That lost iOS 5 feature borked my workflow.
It's not gone. You just have to swipe the list name. It made deleting item easier since you can now swipe to delete on an item.
I've seen potential for Forstall as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
Maybe Scott will come back and start Apple 3.0 one day...
He looks like a maniac, and Apple is too big now for someone like him (maybe). Let him create his own NEXT.
There are similarities.
Jobs was ousted from Apple because he was acting like he was the CEO when he wasn't. Even though he started the company, he really didn't have the skills to run it. His days in the wilderness (Next, Pixar, etc.) were when he really learned his most important lessons on how to run and lead companies. He could never have reached his potential without that experience. On the other hand, that failure didn't break him, as it would most people. After an understandable reflective pause, he bounced back, used it as a learning experience, and moved ahead.
The question is, what will Scott do? Can he understand and deal with his limitations, learn from his mistakes, master his ego, and leverage his talents? Or will he lower the blinkers and just get bitter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBHoule
Forstall's exit says a lot about who is in control at Apple. This is a strong, gutsy move by Cook, one I would have never predicted given Forstall's long tenure and key position. But Jobs wouldn't and didn't hand over the company to someone not up to the job.
Today, John Gruber suggested that Forstall's "design taste, engineering management, abrasive style and the whole iOS Maps thing" led to his demise. Gruber described him as a polarizing executive.
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
Steve Jobs was a polarizing figure.
"Forstall forgot that he was Steve's guy, not Steve Jobs."
.
I hope one of those guys is pushing for OSX on a tablet.
Microsoft is about to force the issue with the Surface.
.
Originally Posted by AvraamJDectis
I hope one of those guys is pushing for OSX on a tablet.
Terrible and pointless idea.
Microsoft is about to force the issue with the Surface.
No, they've already proven it's a terrible and pointless idea.