If IOS tablets are selling like hot cakes do we care? I'm not sure that world domination is an interesting goal.
Well when all you have going for you is market share of course that's your mantra. When you can't compete on quality, ease of use, customer satisfaction, developer interest, profit margins, etc. the number of widgets pumped out the factory door becomes your goal.
Amazon sells the Kindles at a loss supposedly and they reported a loss in their financial results. Google and Amazon's business models are to sell the "printer" at a loss and make money on the "ink." Hey, it worked for HP for awhile didn't it.? Apple's model is the exact opposite.
So yes, as long as Apple is selling product at a pace it can barely keep up with we fans should be pleased and not worry about market share. The tech world, however, lives and dies by market share. Selling more means it's the better product in their eyes, even if you lose money in the process.
Before iPad Mini approaching 1 million per month. After iPad Mini approaching 1 million per quarter.
I don't think the iPad Mini will have much negative effect on the Nexus7, nor will sales of that device have much effect on iPad Mini sales. There's lots of potential market for both. IMO the overall sales in 7-8" tablets will handily outpace their larger brethren in short order.
If Apple were only about world domination, the iPad Mini would have been priced at $249. Apple is about making great products and making money while they're at it, not the other way around. That's why MS and GOOG fall short on user experience, they're about making $$ first and making a few products while they're at it.
I am sure people will argue that Apple is a company and the bottom line is all that matters, and I get it. I do. But that isn't how they handle their business.
Pricing the ipad mini lower would not make any difference at this time. When you sell all you can make just as quickly as you make them, why price it cheaper? You aren't going to sell any more because there aren't any more to sell.
Pricing the ipad mini lower would not make any difference at this time. When you sell all you can make just as quickly as you make them, why price it cheaper? You aren't going to sell any more because there aren't any more to sell.
I don't think the iPad Mini will have much negative effect on the Nexus7, nor will sales of that device have much effect on iPad Mini sales. There's lots of potential market for both. IMO the overall sales in 7-8" tablets will handily outpace their larger brethren in short order.
Based on what? Apple simply wasn't in the small tablet market, this is the primary reason it exists. It was a way to not compete directly against the iPad. Competing directly against iPad was an abject failure with 10" class tablet not even making a dent.
Now Apple is entering small tablet market as well. It would be unreasonable to expect them to dominate that as well.
Going from little competition to a new dominant player entering the market can't help but decrease sales for the Nexus 7.
I always have to laugh about the web statistics of Android devices. Either they are complete junk and no one uses them or their users are too dumb to use a web browser.
That continues to puzzle. I don't believe that all the "other" tablets or smartphones are going to landfill. And I certainly see enough Samsung Galaxy's out there (but not Tab). So what are these devices doing off the web? For that matter, why are they equally poorly represented on Flickr?
Based on what? Apple simply wasn't in the small tablet market, this is the primary reason it exists. It was a way to not compete directly against the iPad. Competing directly against iPad was an abject failure with 10" class tablet not even making a dent.
Now Apple is entering small tablet market as well. It would be unreasonable to expect them to dominate that as well.
Going from little competition to a new dominant player entering the market can't help but decrease sales for the Nexus 7.
If you read what I wrote, based on an expanding market. Sales of the Nexus7 will go on despite the iPad Mini. Lots of market for everyone to enjoy some success.
Well when all you have going for you is market share of course that's your mantra. When you can't compete on quality, ease of use, customer satisfaction, developer interest, profit margins, etc. the number of widgets pumped out the factory door becomes your goal.
Amazon sells the Kindles at a loss supposedly and they reported a loss in their financial results. Google and Amazon's business models are to sell the "printer" at a loss and make money on the "ink." Hey, it worked for HP for awhile didn't it.? Apple's model is the exact opposite.
So yes, as long as Apple is selling product at a pace it can barely keep up with we fans should be pleased and not worry about market share. The tech world, however, lives and dies by market share. Selling more means it's the better product in their eyes, even if you lose money in the process.
The problem in the tablet market is the Amazon and now Google "race to the bottom" pricing. Those two companies have other revenue streams to monetize "at cost" tablet sales.
Asus, Acer, HTC, etc.. Don't have alternate revenue streams in this "new" market of tablets. These OEMs are never going to see the profit margins that Dell, HP, Compaq,Gateway etc... used to see in the 1990s-2008.
The tablet market just started and we're already at the netbook stage. This means most of these Android OEMs will see $10-30 profits from each device sold, nothing like the $100+ that Apple will earn.
Google's "openness" allowed Amazon to set the "at cost" pricing with which no other Android OEM can compete.
If you are a developer, which platform would you target or spend more effort developing for? The platform where people are willing to pay a premium or the platform where people are shopping based on how cheap a tablet is? The later are the people who will spend less money on apps and the developer has to rely on in app advertising.
It's no surprise the lack of Android tablet specific apps.
I don't think the iPad Mini will have much negative effect on the Nexus7, nor will sales of that device have much effect on iPad Mini sales. There's lots of potential market for both. IMO the overall sales in 7-8" tablets will handily outpace their larger brethren in short order.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65
Based on what? Apple simply wasn't in the small tablet market, this is the primary reason it exists. It was a way to not compete directly against the iPad. Competing directly against iPad was an abject failure with 10" class tablet not even making a dent.
Now Apple is entering small tablet market as well. It would be unreasonable to expect them to dominate that as well.
Going from little competition to a new dominant player entering the market can't help but decrease sales for the Nexus 7.
The interesting thing now is both Apple and Google have a "line-up" - 4-5" smartphones, 7-8" mini tablets and ~10" tablets. So, in principle, Google fans are going to enjoy the choices they can make within their brand of choice. Likewise, Apple fans are going to walk into an Apple store choosing from the Apple lineup. In places like BestBuy, Apple may retain the advantage because iPads/iPhones will have their exclusive display, where the Nexus devices will share counter space with other non-iOS devices. At carriers, the iPhone numbers speak for themselves. But we don't know about iPad sales there. We also constantly hear about staff at AT&T and Verizon up-selling Android over iPhone. Are they doing the same with iPad? Does it matter?
It is also interesting that Android enjoys a larger sales advantage in Europe, where the vaunted Apple ecosystem is far stronger.
I'm a little sick of reading the same circular rationalizations around here about why Apple doesn't have to respond or worry about any other forces or competitors in the market.
You're talking to a guy who sold his Amiga to buy a Mac Classic II. You're talking to a guy who has two Macs, three iPhones, and several iPods in his home.
Real Estate never goes down. The rules have changed with these internet stocks. We don't need to worry about revenue.
Every time someone says the rules don't really matter in this one case, they get smashed in the fact with the truth.
Apple is undergoing some very clear shake ups and while they used to blow away their own conservative estimates and even the whisper numbers Wall Street could mutter, now they are barely meeting their own estimates.
You can't say nothing will ever hit Apple or cause a change in the market just because Apple is Apple. That's nonsense.
Apple is already largely ceding majority marketshare to Android. Then the talk was that while a consortium of Android manufacturers was outselling Apple, Apple was still shipping more than every individual company. Now Samsung is outshipping Apple. Apple still has a strong hold in the countries where purchases are subsidized with expensive post-paid contracts. In areas of the world where this isn't true Apple is losing share.
Android competitors started off behind. Then they reached parity on hardware. Then they started to exceed Apple but we didn't mind waiting a few extra months to see what Apple would come up with next. We are now at a stage where Apple has just released all their pent up products and Google unleashes products that match or best Apple six days later. This isn't Spring as it has been the last couple years and we will wait until September (after first wondering what happened to July releases) to see what Apple will do to match the competition. Apple threw their best out there and it isn't going to be good enough.
Does this mean Apple dies? No. Does it mean Apple will automatically lose? No. Does it mean Apple won't sell anything? No.
A million units at $200-250 a unit is over $2 billion of revenue a month. Since when the hell did we start turning up our noses and ignoring competition only generating $2 billion in sales a month? Also it is only one competitor. Apple has to beat a dozen of them. Are we going to hear the same tired refrains? Yes but none of them ship more than Apple. Apple has majority share. Then Apple has minority majority share. Then finally Apple has a very large share and takes better profits. Then......
We shouldn't want until those final outcomes. Apple needs to step it up.
Google just refreshed this line. A 32 gig model WITH cellular radio is $30 cheaper than the baseline iPad mini. I understand Apple products are premium but the reality is the iPad line is more vunerable because there are no cell providers helping hid the true cost with confusing subsidized contracts. There are no cell companies stealing the price difference as profits. Right now as an example, a Samsung Galaxy S3 basically looks no different in cost to an iPhone 5 to U.S. consumers because the major cell providers charge $199 for each and sign both customers to 2 year contracts. They just pay Samsung less and keep more for themselves in profits or they may even be using those cheaper phones to help subsidize what they have to pay Apple for the iPhone.
The point is the contracts are a form of hidden credit and distort the prices within the market. When those distortions sort out, Apple could be hurting. Likewise since there is no subsidy model for the iPad, Apple could have a much harder time and cede marketshare that much faster.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Sales of Google and Asustek's Nexus 7 tablet have steadily increased since its launch, and are now near 1 million units per month.
Not for long. I bet the Mini takes a huge bite out of this (and every other tablet sales).
Any guess on Mini first week sales? 5 Million?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ko024
"Approach one million" and "close to one million"... Still not one million...
It's one million, what's the difference. The mini will sell 4+ million per month.
Well when all you have going for you is market share of course that's your mantra. When you can't compete on quality, ease of use, customer satisfaction, developer interest, profit margins, etc. the number of widgets pumped out the factory door becomes your goal.
Amazon sells the Kindles at a loss supposedly and they reported a loss in their financial results. Google and Amazon's business models are to sell the "printer" at a loss and make money on the "ink." Hey, it worked for HP for awhile didn't it.? Apple's model is the exact opposite.
So yes, as long as Apple is selling product at a pace it can barely keep up with we fans should be pleased and not worry about market share. The tech world, however, lives and dies by market share. Selling more means it's the better product in their eyes, even if you lose money in the process.
Before iPad Mini approaching 1 million per month. After iPad Mini approaching 1 million per quarter.
But what happens after all the Fandroid sheep buy them? Who will buy them next??
Oh, that's right... fandroids think they represent the majority of consumers. My bad. Nevermind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee
Before iPad Mini approaching 1 million per month. After iPad Mini approaching 1 million per quarter.
I don't think the iPad Mini will have much negative effect on the Nexus7, nor will sales of that device have much effect on iPad Mini sales. There's lots of potential market for both. IMO the overall sales in 7-8" tablets will handily outpace their larger brethren in short order.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf
Agreed.
If Apple were only about world domination, the iPad Mini would have been priced at $249. Apple is about making great products and making money while they're at it, not the other way around. That's why MS and GOOG fall short on user experience, they're about making $$ first and making a few products while they're at it.
I am sure people will argue that Apple is a company and the bottom line is all that matters, and I get it. I do. But that isn't how they handle their business.
Pricing the ipad mini lower would not make any difference at this time. When you sell all you can make just as quickly as you make them, why price it cheaper? You aren't going to sell any more because there aren't any more to sell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Sales of Google and Asustek's Nexus 7 tablet have steadily increased since its launch, and are now near 1 million units per month.
not for long. actually, not any more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac-user
sold products or shipped into the channels?
landfills
Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication
Pricing the ipad mini lower would not make any difference at this time. When you sell all you can make just as quickly as you make them, why price it cheaper? You aren't going to sell any more because there aren't any more to sell.
Good point, you're right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf
World domination is ALWAYS the goal...
Number 2, did you say we have sold almost one MILLION Nexus 7s?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
I don't think the iPad Mini will have much negative effect on the Nexus7, nor will sales of that device have much effect on iPad Mini sales. There's lots of potential market for both. IMO the overall sales in 7-8" tablets will handily outpace their larger brethren in short order.
Based on what? Apple simply wasn't in the small tablet market, this is the primary reason it exists. It was a way to not compete directly against the iPad. Competing directly against iPad was an abject failure with 10" class tablet not even making a dent.
Now Apple is entering small tablet market as well. It would be unreasonable to expect them to dominate that as well.
Going from little competition to a new dominant player entering the market can't help but decrease sales for the Nexus 7.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775
I always have to laugh about the web statistics of Android devices. Either they are complete junk and no one uses them or their users are too dumb to use a web browser.
That continues to puzzle. I don't believe that all the "other" tablets or smartphones are going to landfill. And I certainly see enough Samsung Galaxy's out there (but not Tab). So what are these devices doing off the web? For that matter, why are they equally poorly represented on Flickr?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65
Based on what? Apple simply wasn't in the small tablet market, this is the primary reason it exists. It was a way to not compete directly against the iPad. Competing directly against iPad was an abject failure with 10" class tablet not even making a dent.
Now Apple is entering small tablet market as well. It would be unreasonable to expect them to dominate that as well.
Going from little competition to a new dominant player entering the market can't help but decrease sales for the Nexus 7.
If you read what I wrote, based on an expanding market. Sales of the Nexus7 will go on despite the iPad Mini. Lots of market for everyone to enjoy some success.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff
Number 2, did you say we have sold almost one MILLION Nexus 7s?
That's better than one BILLION Nexus 7s!
The problem in the tablet market is the Amazon and now Google "race to the bottom" pricing. Those two companies have other revenue streams to monetize "at cost" tablet sales.
Asus, Acer, HTC, etc.. Don't have alternate revenue streams in this "new" market of tablets. These OEMs are never going to see the profit margins that Dell, HP, Compaq,Gateway etc... used to see in the 1990s-2008.
The tablet market just started and we're already at the netbook stage. This means most of these Android OEMs will see $10-30 profits from each device sold, nothing like the $100+ that Apple will earn.
Google's "openness" allowed Amazon to set the "at cost" pricing with which no other Android OEM can compete.
If you are a developer, which platform would you target or spend more effort developing for? The platform where people are willing to pay a premium or the platform where people are shopping based on how cheap a tablet is? The later are the people who will spend less money on apps and the developer has to rely on in app advertising.
It's no surprise the lack of Android tablet specific apps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
I don't think the iPad Mini will have much negative effect on the Nexus7, nor will sales of that device have much effect on iPad Mini sales. There's lots of potential market for both. IMO the overall sales in 7-8" tablets will handily outpace their larger brethren in short order.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65
Based on what? Apple simply wasn't in the small tablet market, this is the primary reason it exists. It was a way to not compete directly against the iPad. Competing directly against iPad was an abject failure with 10" class tablet not even making a dent.
Now Apple is entering small tablet market as well. It would be unreasonable to expect them to dominate that as well.
Going from little competition to a new dominant player entering the market can't help but decrease sales for the Nexus 7.
The interesting thing now is both Apple and Google have a "line-up" - 4-5" smartphones, 7-8" mini tablets and ~10" tablets. So, in principle, Google fans are going to enjoy the choices they can make within their brand of choice. Likewise, Apple fans are going to walk into an Apple store choosing from the Apple lineup. In places like BestBuy, Apple may retain the advantage because iPads/iPhones will have their exclusive display, where the Nexus devices will share counter space with other non-iOS devices. At carriers, the iPhone numbers speak for themselves. But we don't know about iPad sales there. We also constantly hear about staff at AT&T and Verizon up-selling Android over iPhone. Are they doing the same with iPad? Does it matter?
It is also interesting that Android enjoys a larger sales advantage in Europe, where the vaunted Apple ecosystem is far stronger.
I'm a little sick of reading the same circular rationalizations around here about why Apple doesn't have to respond or worry about any other forces or competitors in the market.
You're talking to a guy who sold his Amiga to buy a Mac Classic II. You're talking to a guy who has two Macs, three iPhones, and several iPods in his home.
Real Estate never goes down. The rules have changed with these internet stocks. We don't need to worry about revenue.
Every time someone says the rules don't really matter in this one case, they get smashed in the fact with the truth.
Apple is undergoing some very clear shake ups and while they used to blow away their own conservative estimates and even the whisper numbers Wall Street could mutter, now they are barely meeting their own estimates.
You can't say nothing will ever hit Apple or cause a change in the market just because Apple is Apple. That's nonsense.
Apple is already largely ceding majority marketshare to Android. Then the talk was that while a consortium of Android manufacturers was outselling Apple, Apple was still shipping more than every individual company. Now Samsung is outshipping Apple. Apple still has a strong hold in the countries where purchases are subsidized with expensive post-paid contracts. In areas of the world where this isn't true Apple is losing share.
Android competitors started off behind. Then they reached parity on hardware. Then they started to exceed Apple but we didn't mind waiting a few extra months to see what Apple would come up with next. We are now at a stage where Apple has just released all their pent up products and Google unleashes products that match or best Apple six days later. This isn't Spring as it has been the last couple years and we will wait until September (after first wondering what happened to July releases) to see what Apple will do to match the competition. Apple threw their best out there and it isn't going to be good enough.
Does this mean Apple dies? No. Does it mean Apple will automatically lose? No. Does it mean Apple won't sell anything? No.
A million units at $200-250 a unit is over $2 billion of revenue a month. Since when the hell did we start turning up our noses and ignoring competition only generating $2 billion in sales a month? Also it is only one competitor. Apple has to beat a dozen of them. Are we going to hear the same tired refrains? Yes but none of them ship more than Apple. Apple has majority share. Then Apple has minority majority share. Then finally Apple has a very large share and takes better profits. Then......
We shouldn't want until those final outcomes. Apple needs to step it up.
Google just refreshed this line. A 32 gig model WITH cellular radio is $30 cheaper than the baseline iPad mini. I understand Apple products are premium but the reality is the iPad line is more vunerable because there are no cell providers helping hid the true cost with confusing subsidized contracts. There are no cell companies stealing the price difference as profits. Right now as an example, a Samsung Galaxy S3 basically looks no different in cost to an iPhone 5 to U.S. consumers because the major cell providers charge $199 for each and sign both customers to 2 year contracts. They just pay Samsung less and keep more for themselves in profits or they may even be using those cheaper phones to help subsidize what they have to pay Apple for the iPhone.
The point is the contracts are a form of hidden credit and distort the prices within the market. When those distortions sort out, Apple could be hurting. Likewise since there is no subsidy model for the iPad, Apple could have a much harder time and cede marketshare that much faster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Sales of Google and Asustek's Nexus 7 tablet have steadily increased since its launch, and are now near 1 million units per month.
Which is about to come to an end.
http://www.apple.com/ipad-mini/overview/