theyve said they wouldnt do a lot of things theyve done. That doesnt matter. That stuff is what you call marketing. I wanted a 7 inch tablet even before steve jobs made that comment and I knew apple was going to release one. They were just trying to throw competitors off the trail and protect their current product.
More importantly Apple didn't release a 7 inch tablet. They released a 7.9 inch tablet. 7.9 is a whole lot closer to 8 inches.
Exactly. Apple might sometimes announce weekend sales of a new product to create excitement, but it doesn't break down sales of products within a category. If a competitor knew how much of an individual product Apple was selling, it could put resources into attacking that product essentially allowing Apple to do research for it.
I was in the Apple Store twice this weekend, and based on what I saw most of those sales are the new Mini with the new iPad 4 getting some sales. The iPad 4 weighs a ton compared to the Mini. I think for many people that will factor heavily into their purchasing decisions.
Yes, I checked out the mini at the Apple Store and immediately loved it. Better than the original iPad? Since it is small and you can pretty much anything on it that you can on the regular iPad. And then lift up the regular iPad. It weighs a ton compared to the mini.
If I didn't have my iPhone and MBP, I'd probably get one. The cellular version.
They obviously aren't or we wouldn't have a iPad mini.
1) Note that Jobs didn't say "current crop" today. He said it awhile ago — when he was still alive — when making quotes was still possible. Of the then current crop of 7" tablets which have been a success.
2) New rule: If you insist on calling a 7.9" tablet a 7" tablet then you have to all the 9.7" tablet a 9" tablet which also invalidates your claims.
If you're going to claim that they lied about 34 countries for the release weekend you'll have to back that up. But why would they do that? If they had so little stock or knew the demand for the US, or US and UK was enough to sell all the units they had then why would they add 32 to 33 more countries? It makes no sense.
They wouldn't have to technically "lie" for what I said to be true. They simply said that preorders were going to be available in those 34 countries. They were.
It could also simply be a result of how they have their ordering system set up. A glitch, as it were, wherein all the US preorders got to the post faster.
In my 34 plus years dealing with Apple (buying, reselling, evangelizing, co-developing, observing), they never have played games like that. Apple is a tough supplier and a tough competitor -- but they are fair and ethical!
The fact that they (seemingly) purposefully haven't done this, is in fact unusual.
Apple is clearly in some sort of panic mode. Some of their decisions lately seem a bit odd? First they call the iPad 3 the "new" iPad then they go back to numbering it iPad 4 but release it way too soon, all because it is the holiday season and Microsoft and Google are launching new tablets. Then in the midst of this crisis they fire their top iOS guy. Then they early release the iPad mini before they have enough made and no cellular option ready. Meanwhile they have dozens of lawsuits going on around the globe and to top it off, a falling out with their primary supplier. They have a lot of irons in the fire.
Just business as usual in the high-tech marketplace.
This is why GG is on my block list... but people keep quoting him.
GG is like one of those religious fanatics that go door to door... He has a question, answer or argument for any topic -- but no real enlightenment to offer.
He is intelligent, but his posts contribute nothing to the topic at hand... he is here to challenge and engage -- then change the subject.
Now, he is trying to hijack the thread to argue about his argument...
I'll keep responding to GG I often don't agree with him (especially in this thread) but his replies are throughout and intriguing (even of egregiously wrong).
Liar liar pants on fire. If you are going to make a claim that it's an exact quote at least include the exact sentence not one you truncated.
"This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps."
So he thought that they couldn't go less than 10" (note that the iPad started off less than 10") and they found a way to make the device feasible without hurting the user experience much or at all. People can't have an opinion based on current info and then change their mid when new info is presented?
Scenario:
"Steve, we ran the numbers, if we use the 163 PPI displays in the iPhone and keep the 1024x768 display we can have a reasonably good 7.85" tablet. It's not great like he full-sized iPad in usability as the elements are smaller, but they are about halfway between the iPhone and iPad elements and the new size and weight will come with their own benefits making it a very good tablet for its size, especially when compared to those 7" 16:9 tablets."
"Let's develop this but hold off until we can saturate the current tablet market or we start to see cheaper tablets rise up to a point where good tablet apps are better than nothing in that small tablet market."
Let's recap what else he stated...
"If you take an iPad and hold it upright in portrait view and draw an imaginary horizontal line halfway down the screen, the screens on the seven-inch tablets are a bit smaller than the bottom half of the iPad display. This size isn't sufficient to create great tablet apps in our opinion."
That's for a 7" 16:9 tablet whilst the iPad mini is an 8" 4:3 tablet. That means it has a display area about 40% larger than the tablets he was comparing to. Did Apple make a 7" 16:9 tablet? Do you think Apple will make a 7" 16:9 tablet? If they do you can say Jobs was wrong.
Then he went on to say...
"These are among the reasons we think the current crop of 7-inch tablets are going to be DOA, dead on arrival"
Which one of the 7" tablets shipping at the time were successful? If you said anything other than none of them you're wrong.
So it's okay for you to make stuff up out of thin air to prove your point? And yes people are allowed to change their minds, it is also within my right to point out hypocrisy when I see it.
More importantly Apple didn't release a 7 inch tablet. They released a 7.9 inch tablet. 7.9 is a whole lot closer to 8 inches.
But even if Apple had, they would have done it 'right', is the implication. It's not about the size - its about delivering a package that 'works' according to a given criteria. So the whole argument is silly. If Apple had brought out a 7" tablet they would have ensured that it worked. They decided on a 7.9" tablet and clearly it works. I'm sure this will become the new 'default iPad'. If it works as well as its larger sibling for most people, then size definitely matters. And weight.
In other news, Apple has now clarified the numbers. The 3 million represents only the Mini and iPad '4' and does not include sales of the iPad 2, old stock of the iPad '3' or refurbished models.
Apple pulled the same trick last time. Release launch weekend numbers, let the idiots have a few hours to try and spin them (last time people said the iPad 2 was included in their iPad 3 launch numbers) and then clarify the results. Apple just trolled everyone AGAIN.
The nerds they be a ragin' everywhere this morning. They just can't stand when Apple has a successful launch.
I think Apple is in for a monster holiday quarter. iPhone 5, Mini and iPad '4'. Not to mention new Macbooks and iMacs. The only thing that could limit their sales is how fast they can produce devices.
The fact that they (seemingly) purposefully haven't done this, is in fact unusual.
Apple is clearly in some sort of panic mode. Some of their decisions lately seem a bit odd? First they call the iPad 3 the "new" iPad then they go back to numbering it iPad 4 but release it way too soon, all because it is the holiday season and Microsoft and Google are launching new tablets. Then in the midst of this crisis they fire their top iOS guy. Then they early release the iPad mini before they have enough made and no cellular option ready. Meanwhile they have dozens of lawsuits going on around the globe and to top it off, a falling out with their primary supplier. They have a lot of irons in the fire.
Actually, Apple has not gone back to numbering the iPads, AFAIK. They introduced it as the 4th gen iPad but are calling it iPad with Retina Display, which is consistent with their nomenclature for iPad "3", I believe.
Actually, Apple has not gone back to numbering the iPads, AFAIK. They introduced it as the 4th gen iPad but are calling it iPad with Retina Display, which is consistent with their nomenclature for iPad "3", I believe.
I really don't think there's any official word on that, but what you've said is in line with what I believe about it, at least.
I made up a chart; I forget what thread that was in…
So it's okay for you to make stuff up out of thin air to prove your point? And yes people are allowed to change their minds, it is also within my right to point out hypocrisy when I see it.
What which comments I said Steve made did I make up? The only claimed quotes that are being claimed from Steve that are false have been from you and you comments that 7.9" equals 7", that "current crop" means all tablets around today, and that the iPad mini is great tablet UI when compared to the full size iPad.
Actually, Apple has not gone back to numbering the iPads, AFAIK. They introduced it as the 4th gen iPad but are calling it iPad with Retina Display, which is consistent with their nomenclature for iPad "3", I believe.
Until of course the mini gets a Retina screen too.
In other news, Apple has now clarified the numbers. The 3 million represents only the Mini and iPad '4' and does not include sales of the iPad 2, old stock of the iPad '3' or refurbished models.
Apple pulled the same trick last time. Release launch weekend numbers, let the idiots have a few hours to try and spin them (last time people said the iPad 2 was included in their iPad 3 launch numbers) and then clarify the results. Apple just trolled everyone AGAIN.
I thought that was clear from the get go that it included only new iPad models, not anything that had been on the market already. The spin people are trying to make here is that the iPad mini sales must have sucked because they included all new iPad models instead of breaking them out per type like they do with different sized MBAs!
The article makes a comment about jack ass's claim of 950k units for sale for an unprecedented 34 countries which is 3.4x more countries at launch and with at least a 2 month ramp up in production.
amazing how most pundits miss what should be obvious - the mini is going to become Apple's top selling iPad, and reinforce its overall tablet leadership.
the pundits carp about the screen. even tho it's actually a very good screen, better than the iPad 2, which is still very adequate (i have one). because it's not the latest and greatest retina quality.
but consumers care much more about convenience, "just works," and price. plus keeping all the apps and iTunes stuff they already have, if they are one of the 100+ million who have already bought an iPad before.
consumers will see the mini as almost as good as the 10" iPad in terms of what it can do, in a much more convenient size, at a price 34% less than the full-size iPad. that's a great package already.
they will buy a ton of them for holiday gifts. no one will feel bad when they unwrap that present!
what Apple did was deliver a V.1 mini that was ready to go now at a price level it intends to maintain for every new mini model in the future, using mostly iPad 2 internals in a new shell to avoid delay. it will sell everyone of those Foxconn can make the rest of this year anyway, so there is no good market reason to charge less.
then pretty early next year - March? - Apple will introduce the V.2 mini with a 326 dpi retina display and A6 chip when screen makers and Foxconn are ready for its volume production. its $330 price will be the same, and this V.1 mini's price will drop to, for example, $250. this price segmentation by model generation is what Apple has done with the iPad, iPod touch, and the iPhone, so it should be obvious that's what it plans for the mini too.
that V.2 mini will be the real "killer" product - pretty close to perfect for a lot of people - and become not only the #1 iPad, but the #1 tablet, period.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU
theyve said they wouldnt do a lot of things theyve done. That doesnt matter. That stuff is what you call marketing. I wanted a 7 inch tablet even before steve jobs made that comment and I knew apple was going to release one. They were just trying to throw competitors off the trail and protect their current product.
More importantly Apple didn't release a 7 inch tablet. They released a 7.9 inch tablet. 7.9 is a whole lot closer to 8 inches.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
Exactly. Apple might sometimes announce weekend sales of a new product to create excitement, but it doesn't break down sales of products within a category. If a competitor knew how much of an individual product Apple was selling, it could put resources into attacking that product essentially allowing Apple to do research for it.
I was in the Apple Store twice this weekend, and based on what I saw most of those sales are the new Mini with the new iPad 4 getting some sales. The iPad 4 weighs a ton compared to the Mini. I think for many people that will factor heavily into their purchasing decisions.
Yes, I checked out the mini at the Apple Store and immediately loved it. Better than the original iPad? Since it is small and you can pretty much anything on it that you can on the regular iPad. And then lift up the regular iPad. It weighs a ton compared to the mini.
If I didn't have my iPhone and MBP, I'd probably get one. The cellular version.
1) Note that Jobs didn't say "current crop" today. He said it awhile ago — when he was still alive — when making quotes was still possible. Of the then current crop of 7" tablets which have been a success.
2) New rule: If you insist on calling a 7.9" tablet a 7" tablet then you have to all the 9.7" tablet a 9" tablet which also invalidates your claims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Not in those exact words.
My point exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
If you're going to claim that they lied about 34 countries for the release weekend you'll have to back that up. But why would they do that? If they had so little stock or knew the demand for the US, or US and UK was enough to sell all the units they had then why would they add 32 to 33 more countries? It makes no sense.
They wouldn't have to technically "lie" for what I said to be true. They simply said that preorders were going to be available in those 34 countries. They were.
It could also simply be a result of how they have their ordering system set up. A glitch, as it were, wherein all the US preorders got to the post faster.
In my 34 plus years dealing with Apple (buying, reselling, evangelizing, co-developing, observing), they never have played games like that. Apple is a tough supplier and a tough competitor -- but they are fair and ethical!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
The fact that they (seemingly) purposefully haven't done this, is in fact unusual.
Apple is clearly in some sort of panic mode. Some of their decisions lately seem a bit odd? First they call the iPad 3 the "new" iPad then they go back to numbering it iPad 4 but release it way too soon, all because it is the holiday season and Microsoft and Google are launching new tablets. Then in the midst of this crisis they fire their top iOS guy. Then they early release the iPad mini before they have enough made and no cellular option ready. Meanwhile they have dozens of lawsuits going on around the globe and to top it off, a falling out with their primary supplier. They have a lot of irons in the fire.
Just business as usual in the high-tech marketplace.
I'll keep responding to GG I often don't agree with him (especially in this thread) but his replies are throughout and intriguing (even of egregiously wrong
So it's okay for you to make stuff up out of thin air to prove your point? And yes people are allowed to change their minds, it is also within my right to point out hypocrisy when I see it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay-t
They are more creative than Van Gogh and Picasso together, they'll find something
More creative, hell no
More full of shit, hell yeah
Friends, Romans, Countrymen, lend me your ears... er, ah... not you Van Gogh!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
More importantly Apple didn't release a 7 inch tablet. They released a 7.9 inch tablet. 7.9 is a whole lot closer to 8 inches.
But even if Apple had, they would have done it 'right', is the implication. It's not about the size - its about delivering a package that 'works' according to a given criteria. So the whole argument is silly. If Apple had brought out a 7" tablet they would have ensured that it worked. They decided on a 7.9" tablet and clearly it works. I'm sure this will become the new 'default iPad'. If it works as well as its larger sibling for most people, then size definitely matters. And weight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
So it's okay for you to make stuff up out of thin air to prove your point?
You must consider this a good thing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
What's up with that? That was so kludgy.
I blame Scott Forstall.
In other news, Apple has now clarified the numbers. The 3 million represents only the Mini and iPad '4' and does not include sales of the iPad 2, old stock of the iPad '3' or refurbished models.
Apple pulled the same trick last time. Release launch weekend numbers, let the idiots have a few hours to try and spin them (last time people said the iPad 2 was included in their iPad 3 launch numbers) and then clarify the results. Apple just trolled everyone AGAIN.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee
The nerds they be a ragin' everywhere this morning. They just can't stand when Apple has a successful launch.
I think Apple is in for a monster holiday quarter. iPhone 5, Mini and iPad '4'. Not to mention new Macbooks and iMacs. The only thing that could limit their sales is how fast they can produce devices.
Best post on this thread, IMO!
Lol I personally do it all the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
The fact that they (seemingly) purposefully haven't done this, is in fact unusual.
Apple is clearly in some sort of panic mode. Some of their decisions lately seem a bit odd? First they call the iPad 3 the "new" iPad then they go back to numbering it iPad 4 but release it way too soon, all because it is the holiday season and Microsoft and Google are launching new tablets. Then in the midst of this crisis they fire their top iOS guy. Then they early release the iPad mini before they have enough made and no cellular option ready. Meanwhile they have dozens of lawsuits going on around the globe and to top it off, a falling out with their primary supplier. They have a lot of irons in the fire.
Actually, Apple has not gone back to numbering the iPads, AFAIK. They introduced it as the 4th gen iPad but are calling it iPad with Retina Display, which is consistent with their nomenclature for iPad "3", I believe.
Originally Posted by ankleskater
Actually, Apple has not gone back to numbering the iPads, AFAIK. They introduced it as the 4th gen iPad but are calling it iPad with Retina Display, which is consistent with their nomenclature for iPad "3", I believe.
I really don't think there's any official word on that, but what you've said is in line with what I believe about it, at least.
I made up a chart; I forget what thread that was in…
What which comments I said Steve made did I make up? The only claimed quotes that are being claimed from Steve that are false have been from you and you comments that 7.9" equals 7", that "current crop" means all tablets around today, and that the iPad mini is great tablet UI when compared to the full size iPad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater
Actually, Apple has not gone back to numbering the iPads, AFAIK. They introduced it as the 4th gen iPad but are calling it iPad with Retina Display, which is consistent with their nomenclature for iPad "3", I believe.
Until of course the mini gets a Retina screen too.
there is this:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5452?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
I thought that was clear from the get go that it included only new iPad models, not anything that had been on the market already. The spin people are trying to make here is that the iPad mini sales must have sucked because they included all new iPad models instead of breaking them out per type like they do with different sized MBAs!
The article makes a comment about jack ass's claim of 950k units for sale for an unprecedented 34 countries which is 3.4x more countries at launch and with at least a 2 month ramp up in production.
amazing how most pundits miss what should be obvious - the mini is going to become Apple's top selling iPad, and reinforce its overall tablet leadership.
the pundits carp about the screen. even tho it's actually a very good screen, better than the iPad 2, which is still very adequate (i have one). because it's not the latest and greatest retina quality.
but consumers care much more about convenience, "just works," and price. plus keeping all the apps and iTunes stuff they already have, if they are one of the 100+ million who have already bought an iPad before.
consumers will see the mini as almost as good as the 10" iPad in terms of what it can do, in a much more convenient size, at a price 34% less than the full-size iPad. that's a great package already.
they will buy a ton of them for holiday gifts. no one will feel bad when they unwrap that present!
what Apple did was deliver a V.1 mini that was ready to go now at a price level it intends to maintain for every new mini model in the future, using mostly iPad 2 internals in a new shell to avoid delay. it will sell everyone of those Foxconn can make the rest of this year anyway, so there is no good market reason to charge less.
then pretty early next year - March? - Apple will introduce the V.2 mini with a 326 dpi retina display and A6 chip when screen makers and Foxconn are ready for its volume production. its $330 price will be the same, and this V.1 mini's price will drop to, for example, $250. this price segmentation by model generation is what Apple has done with the iPad, iPod touch, and the iPhone, so it should be obvious that's what it plans for the mini too.
that V.2 mini will be the real "killer" product - pretty close to perfect for a lot of people - and become not only the #1 iPad, but the #1 tablet, period.
(yes, i'm waiting for that one.)