I think you're being overly defensive here. I see you accusing others on the same thread of saying that "the iPad mini is a flop," or something similar and them denying it. Now you are accusing me of the same thing and I can't see anything I've written that implies this at all.
Only an idiot would think that the iPad mini is a "flop" or anything of the sort. I think you're seeing this desire in me, and in others when it doesn't actually exist. People are simply arguing that it's unusual for Apple not to break out the numbers of a just released, new product. It is.
They've been ramping up production for at least two months, have opened sales for a new product in 3.4x more countries than there next largest open weekend rollout, yet we're to believe they only had 950,000 iPad minis available for sale. Nothing about that says success. Just because you're not using the word flop everything you're saying points to it being a production, marketing, and overall stupidity in how Apple is being managed.
SJ might still have thought that the 7.9" compromises a "great" tablet app... but he would probably have stated that he was talking about 7" tablets... not 7.9" which is a totally different ball of wax.
The fact that they (seemingly) purposefully haven't done this, is in fact unusual.
Apple is clearly in some sort of panic mode. Some of their decisions lately seem a bit odd? First they call the iPad 3 the "new" iPad then they go back to numbering it iPad 4 but release it way too soon, all because it is the holiday season and Microsoft and Google are launching new tablets. Then in the midst of this crisis they fire their top iOS guy. Then they early release the iPad mini before they have enough made and no cellular option ready. Meanwhile they have dozens of lawsuits going on around the globe and to top it off, a falling out with their primary supplier. They have a lot of irons in the fire.
For a new product, which the Mini is they normally do don't they? Seems I read figures for the recent iPhone 5 launch weekend, and that category isn't new.
The iPhone 5 launched alone. Find a prior major launch with several new items/models for comparison
Now you're being dense, the exact quote is "10" screen is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps".
Liar liar pants on fire. If you are going to make a claim that it's an exact quote at least include the exact sentence not one you truncated.
"This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps."
So he thought that they couldn't go less than 10" (note that the iPad started off less than 10") and they found a way to make the device feasible without hurting the user experience much or at all. People can't have an opinion based on current info and then change their mid when new info is presented?
Scenario:
"Steve, we ran the numbers, if we use the 163 PPI displays in the iPhone and keep the 1024x768 display we can have a reasonably good 7.85" tablet. It's not great like he full-sized iPad in usability as the elements are smaller, but they are about halfway between the iPhone and iPad elements and the new size and weight will come with their own benefits making it a very good tablet for its size, especially when compared to those 7" 16:9 tablets."
"Let's develop this but hold off until we can saturate the current tablet market or we start to see cheaper tablets rise up to a point where good tablet apps are better than nothing in that small tablet market."
Let's recap what else he stated...
"If you take an iPad and hold it upright in portrait view and draw an imaginary horizontal line halfway down the screen, the screens on the seven-inch tablets are a bit smaller than the bottom half of the iPad display. This size isn't sufficient to create great tablet apps in our opinion."
That's for a 7" 16:9 tablet whilst the iPad mini is an 8" 4:3 tablet. That means it has a display area about 40% larger than the tablets he was comparing to. Did Apple make a 7" 16:9 tablet? Do you think Apple will make a 7" 16:9 tablet? If they do you can say Jobs was wrong.
Then he went on to say...
"These are among the reasons we think the current crop of 7-inch tablets are going to be DOA, dead on arrival"
Which one of the 7" tablets shipping at the time were successful? If you said anything other than none of them you're wrong.
Considering they only had 950k going to stores....thats a pretty safe bet. Maybe read the article?...
Based on? Some unnamed source as reported by some analyst?
Apple certainly didn't say how many units went to the stores, could be more, could be less
Given that 5th ave easily pushes 500k and up units during a launch when there hasn't been a disaster in the area less than a week before I'd say this was not a shabby launch. I suspect that online and in store sales on the Mini will be slow but steady for the rest of the month and a bit more but still steady when holiday shopping ramps up.
Apple is clearly in some sort of panic mode. Some of their decisions lately seem a bit odd? First they call the iPad 3 the "new" iPad then they go back to numbering it iPad 4 but release it way too soon, all because it is the holiday season and Microsoft and Google are launching new tablets. Then in the midst of this crisis they fire their top iOS guy. Then they early release the iPad mini before they have enough made and no cellular option ready. Meanwhile they have dozens of lawsuits going on around the globe and to top it off, a falling out with their primary supplier. They have a lot of irons in the fire.
They're the world's biggest tech company, so course they have a lot of irons in the fire.
And I don't see anything odd about anything you've mentioned. Do you think that the iPad Mini was something they just threw together at the last minute? This thing has been in development for at least as long as the iPhone5
And the new management line up makes a lot more sense to me.
"There are clear limits of how close you can place physical elements on a touch screen, before users cannot reliably tap, flick or pinch them. This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps." - SJ
... and the Mini is not a 7" tablet. The Mini was specifically presented as not being a 7" tablet.
Right, it's presented as a 7.9" tablet, which tends to fall under the 'minimum size' when 10"/9.7" is considered that.
I'm not exactly sure what you two are debating anymore ...
I think SJ was right, and the 10" iPad is the optimal tablet experience. Having used a mini, it fails for a number of things that are a breeze to do on the iPad, in particular text editing is excruciating.
The 7" tablet appears to be a compromise. Just like the 13" MacBook Air is a compromise to the 15" MBPro. You get what you pay for. The mini is an entry tablet device into the iPad ecosystem, but is not as good for certain things as the full sized iPad.
I was among the first to cite Jobs quotes on this, and was slammed by all kinds of people saying Jobs just changed his mind "get over it". Well he didn't just change his mind, now that I see what Apple has done. What they did was release a more affordable model, after they proved their point with the iPad and ran away with the market for touch tablet computing. And a model that is better suited for certain tasks like an e-reader. So when people buy it, they accept the compromise for price or size, just like they accept the compromise when they buy an iPod Touch over an iPhone or iPad -- and I fully expect the mini to replace the Touch, maybe even by next year. Because they know it isn't the iPad, which is sitting right there next to it in the store, and they know the value the iPad offers., which is why they are in an Apple Store in the first place ...
I don't think this negates anything Jobs said. Anything smaller than 10" is still less than optimal for the apps written for the iPad, especially productivity apps like Pages, Numbers, Safari, Mail, etc. as well as the gestural interfaces. Of course they are still usable on the mini, just like they are on the iPhone, but the experience is less than optimal on both devices. But there is no denying the mini rules as an e-reader due primarily to weight. Other articles such as the physicians expectations demonstrate its superior attributes in that application, and more than likely apps will be tailored to that form factor size as it begins to take off. In fact I would expect that developers may eventually write the apps to take advantage of the two different sizes with the flip of a virtual switch in settings, to optimize the experience on each tablet.
The nerds they be a ragin' everywhere this morning. They just can't stand when Apple has a successful launch.
I think Apple is in for a monster holiday quarter. iPhone 5, Mini and iPad '4'. Not to mention new Macbooks and iMacs. The only thing that could limit their sales is how fast they can produce devices.
The Mini is the first reactionary product I've seen from Apple. You may think they're all a joke, and I agree they're not up to same standard, but if that were true Apple wouldn't have released it in the first place. As has been discussed here, it's been killed internally at Apple a few times in the past. Apple's hedging against what they view as potential competition before it turns serious.
Then you haven't seen this thing called the iPhone. It is just as reactionary as the Mini.
The catch is that Apple doesn't 'react' by doing the same cheap shite. They not race to the bottom, but rather create something of quality even pricing it for that and is sells. Showing the other side that cheap plastic, etc isn't enough.
I'm not exactly sure what you two are debating anymore ...
I think SJ was right, and the 10" iPad is the optimal tablet experience. Having used a mini, it fails for a number of things that are a breeze to do on the iPad, in particular text editing is excruciating.
[lots of good stuff]
It does make it much more of a consumption device compared to the iPad. Even with the 11" MBA compared to the 17" MBP the keyboard still has the same size keys.
Comments
They've been ramping up production for at least two months, have opened sales for a new product in 3.4x more countries than there next largest open weekend rollout, yet we're to believe they only had 950,000 iPad minis available for sale. Nothing about that says success. Just because you're not using the word flop everything you're saying points to it being a production, marketing, and overall stupidity in how Apple is being managed.
Still well short of 10"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
The fact that they (seemingly) purposefully haven't done this, is in fact unusual.
Apple is clearly in some sort of panic mode. Some of their decisions lately seem a bit odd? First they call the iPad 3 the "new" iPad then they go back to numbering it iPad 4 but release it way too soon, all because it is the holiday season and Microsoft and Google are launching new tablets. Then in the midst of this crisis they fire their top iOS guy. Then they early release the iPad mini before they have enough made and no cellular option ready. Meanwhile they have dozens of lawsuits going on around the globe and to top it off, a falling out with their primary supplier. They have a lot of irons in the fire.
They will say that anything less than their estimate of 3 million Minis is a fail. Not Minis and 4s
The iPhone 5 launched alone. Find a prior major launch with several new items/models for comparison
More creative, hell no
More full of shit, hell yeah
Liar liar pants on fire. If you are going to make a claim that it's an exact quote at least include the exact sentence not one you truncated.
So he thought that they couldn't go less than 10" (note that the iPad started off less than 10") and they found a way to make the device feasible without hurting the user experience much or at all. People can't have an opinion based on current info and then change their mid when new info is presented?
Scenario:
"Let's develop this but hold off until we can saturate the current tablet market or we start to see cheaper tablets rise up to a point where good tablet apps are better than nothing in that small tablet market."
Let's recap what else he stated...
That's for a 7" 16:9 tablet whilst the iPad mini is an 8" 4:3 tablet. That means it has a display area about 40% larger than the tablets he was comparing to. Did Apple make a 7" 16:9 tablet? Do you think Apple will make a 7" 16:9 tablet? If they do you can say Jobs was wrong.
Then he went on to say...
Which one of the 7" tablets shipping at the time were successful? If you said anything other than none of them you're wrong.
Apple certainly didn't say how many units went to the stores, could be more, could be less
Given that 5th ave easily pushes 500k and up units during a launch when there hasn't been a disaster in the area less than a week before I'd say this was not a shabby launch. I suspect that online and in store sales on the Mini will be slow but steady for the rest of the month and a bit more but still steady when holiday shopping ramps up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Apple is clearly in some sort of panic mode. Some of their decisions lately seem a bit odd? First they call the iPad 3 the "new" iPad then they go back to numbering it iPad 4 but release it way too soon, all because it is the holiday season and Microsoft and Google are launching new tablets. Then in the midst of this crisis they fire their top iOS guy. Then they early release the iPad mini before they have enough made and no cellular option ready. Meanwhile they have dozens of lawsuits going on around the globe and to top it off, a falling out with their primary supplier. They have a lot of irons in the fire.
They're the world's biggest tech company, so course they have a lot of irons in the fire.
And I don't see anything odd about anything you've mentioned. Do you think that the iPad Mini was something they just threw together at the last minute? This thing has been in development for at least as long as the iPhone5
And the new management line up makes a lot more sense to me.
I'm not exactly sure what you two are debating anymore ...
I think SJ was right, and the 10" iPad is the optimal tablet experience. Having used a mini, it fails for a number of things that are a breeze to do on the iPad, in particular text editing is excruciating.
The 7" tablet appears to be a compromise. Just like the 13" MacBook Air is a compromise to the 15" MBPro. You get what you pay for. The mini is an entry tablet device into the iPad ecosystem, but is not as good for certain things as the full sized iPad.
I was among the first to cite Jobs quotes on this, and was slammed by all kinds of people saying Jobs just changed his mind "get over it". Well he didn't just change his mind, now that I see what Apple has done. What they did was release a more affordable model, after they proved their point with the iPad and ran away with the market for touch tablet computing. And a model that is better suited for certain tasks like an e-reader. So when people buy it, they accept the compromise for price or size, just like they accept the compromise when they buy an iPod Touch over an iPhone or iPad -- and I fully expect the mini to replace the Touch, maybe even by next year. Because they know it isn't the iPad, which is sitting right there next to it in the store, and they know the value the iPad offers., which is why they are in an Apple Store in the first place ...
I don't think this negates anything Jobs said. Anything smaller than 10" is still less than optimal for the apps written for the iPad, especially productivity apps like Pages, Numbers, Safari, Mail, etc. as well as the gestural interfaces. Of course they are still usable on the mini, just like they are on the iPhone, but the experience is less than optimal on both devices. But there is no denying the mini rules as an e-reader due primarily to weight. Other articles such as the physicians expectations demonstrate its superior attributes in that application, and more than likely apps will be tailored to that form factor size as it begins to take off. In fact I would expect that developers may eventually write the apps to take advantage of the two different sizes with the flip of a virtual switch in settings, to optimize the experience on each tablet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Still well short of 10"
... and yet, still much greater than 7".
The nerds they be a ragin' everywhere this morning. They just can't stand when Apple has a successful launch.
I think Apple is in for a monster holiday quarter. iPhone 5, Mini and iPad '4'. Not to mention new Macbooks and iMacs. The only thing that could limit their sales is how fast they can produce devices.
9.7" is short of 10" so I guess Jobs was saying the iPad wasn't a great tablet¡ :smokey:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128
I'm not exactly sure what you two are debating anymore ...
The fact that SJ never ever said that Apple would not build a smaller tablet than the original 9.7" size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
9.7" is short of 10" so I guess Jobs was saying the iPad wasn't a great tablet¡
It falls just short of that "great" tablet app experience...
Then you haven't seen this thing called the iPhone. It is just as reactionary as the Mini.
The catch is that Apple doesn't 'react' by doing the same cheap shite. They not race to the bottom, but rather create something of quality even pricing it for that and is sells. Showing the other side that cheap plastic, etc isn't enough.
It does make it much more of a consumption device compared to the iPad. Even with the 11" MBA compared to the 17" MBP the keyboard still has the same size keys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
The iPhone 5 launched alone. Find a prior major launch with several new items/models for comparison
If you want to claim you didn't expect to see Apple announce launch sales for the Mini I think you're not being honest IMO.
So what if he did. The man is dead. What he said or did or did not no longer really matters if Tim Cook disagrees and Sir J is willing to back him up.