Bought my wife one the day it came out - LOVE IT. I have an iPad 2 and the screen is noticeably sharper. Not as sharp as my iPhone 5, of course, but very nice nonetheless. Also plenty zippy for what we do (ezines, ebooks, videos, web surfing, etc). Very satisfied so far.
You need to get out of whatever major metropolis you subsist in, and take a look at the rest of the world.
First I have an iPhone, and without cellular and wifi its pretty much an iPod touch with better hardware.
Second I said "may not" work in foreign countries. I travelled to Paris and Spain this Summer as a matter of fact. I could not find free wifi anywhere in Paris, and with my locked iPhone 4S I had no cell service, as I was unwilling to pay ATTs exorbitant world plan, or outrageous roaming fees, and truly The number of people I met without any Internet at home, much less wifi, was shocking in a major metropolitan city. Outside of Paris wifi was nonexistent. Spain was worse. I mainly was forced to pay to use computers at Internet cafes ... My iDevice was mostly useless. At least the next time I go back, my 4S will be unlocked and I can buy a local SIM card for both cellular and data. And don't get me started on El Salvador ...
But let's just stick to the good old USA for a moment, farmers and ranchers in the Midwest don't have access to either cellular or wifi when working on the land. Hunters rarely have such luxuries, much less power to recharge. Ever been to a national park? Nothing, nada. Military outposts, sailors at sea, etc. Ever driven through South Dakota? It's a long damn drive and you probably won't like what staticky radio stations you might find there. And ill bet you there are people in NY and NJ right now who are thrilled they bought an iPod Classic with 36 hours of battery life. There's a whole world outside of Silicon Valley, and a thriving market of people around the world who don't have access to the free wifi, 4G LTE, or even regular power.
Finally, as for the cost of manufacturing ... Clarify your statement. What don't "people" understand? As long as there is a market for a device, the cost of the parts has long been subsidized by bulk purchase. Of course there's still a cost to manufacture, but the fact Apple has not changed the design, nor had to market the Classic all save millions which can go into maintaining production for the albeit small, but nevertheless significant market for the Classic. Why else would Apple maintain the Mac Pro? Fewer people buy the MacPro than likely buy the iPod Classic, but it is a well defined market segment which requires little or no marketing to maintain the status quo, which in turn helps support the larger mor expensive ecosystem. And look, as I said before, the Classic does not cannibalize from any other existing product, unlike the Touch which takes money away from Apple's other similar products, as well as costing significant investment in upgrading the device to keep it competitive.
As for using them side by side ... Been there done that. I much prefer using the mini to my iPhone limited to the same functions. gaming is better, watching movies is better, reading books is better, and the mini is not significantly bigger. So stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. This is what I prefer, and I have expressed a related opinion based on broad experience. Hardly hot air. But feel free to disagree. It's a free country.
Apple is a business.
I can't believe that you wrote these long replies after long replies to "substantiate" your opinions about the iPod touch.
I disagree with your opinions.
You mentioned that you traveled to Europe, and you also considered farmers and people in the outdoors. But somehow, I feel that you are still not connected to reality (and the market). I think you still need to get out more and see even more of the world.
That you traveled with a locked iPhone and that you had to pay for wifi in Paris and Spain seem to indicate that you lack experience.
It's great that Apple is going after the Kindle sized tablets, but they may be going in the wrong direction.
It's very possible Microsoft could beat Apple to the punch, and make the iPad look like a dinosaur. Don't believe me? Take a look at this.
Windows NT mobile apps can run on Window 8 desktop computers, which have 27" touch screens. Many Apps from the iPad are being ported to Windows NT, MorphWiz (a popular App for Musicians) is an App that's been ported and is spectacular on a 27" screen. On an iPad 4 you can play Solos on a small 10" screen, but with Windows 8 you can play Bass and Solo, plus chords!
Playing MorphWiz on an 10" iPad.
Here's the same App on a 27" Windows computer… Uh Oh! For many musicians the improved screen real-estate is significant enough to boot the iPad off their purchasing list.
Don't get me wrong, I'm an Apple fanboy and Apple needs to step up fast and bring out a 27" iPad. I'm not saying they should make iOS Apps playable on OSX, but they need to come out with something bigger or they'll become irrelevant. Granted the PC has to be plugged in and the iPad has it's battery power, but imagine a 27 incher thats light, portable and a genuine iPad.
As a musician which would you choose?
A Painter? No doubt the 27"
A Publisher ? No contest.
Everyone knows Apple started the Tablet revolution that anyone can use, and we know they've been working on larger iPads, but the time has come to release them!
Now if only these could have multi-touch pressure sensitivity. Push harder on the screen to swell a trumpet chord or thicken brush strokes, but that's another story.
The only reason I don't agree about the mini is that we didn't see this happen with the iPad, nor the IPhone, nor the Touch.
Once Apple establishes a price, they stick with it, or lower it.
You haven't been paying attention, prices have bounced up and down, from $199 to $249, and now the new version is $299. Mac Mini went from $499 base to $599 base. Prices move up when it makes sense.
Quote:
Flawed or not, my rationale about the mini replacing the Touch seems more likely to me now, as the iPad 2 has taken on a prominent role in education with some pretty good arguments for a 10" tablet for that purpose made here.
If Apple continues its previous pattern, then it makes perfect sense that in two years we would see the previous generation of the mini drop to $200, just like the iPad 2.
Perhaps I wasn't strenuous enough the first time so I think that other guy was onto something.
Are you batshit nuts?
1) The touch is still a very strong seller. It's a music player that fits in a shirt pocket. The mini doesn't replace it.
2) $200 only gets you an old A4 Touch, no way in hell are they reducing an iPad mini anywhere near that. Of my predictions, the new iPod touch 16:9 making it down to $200 is the biggest stretch.
3) Math also seems to be a weakness for you. iPad 2 with bigger ASP and bigger margins drops 20% and you think it is the same thing as the Mini with lower ASP/Margin dropping 40%. Batshit nuts. If anything the smaller ASP/Margin product will drop less. Think 10% instead of 20% like iPad 2, and certainly not 40%.
It's great that Apple is going after the Kindle sized tablets, but they may be going in the wrong direction.
It's very possible Microsoft could beat Apple to the punch, and make the iPad look like a dinosaur. Don't believe me? Take a look at this.
Windows NT mobile apps can run on Window 8 desktop computers, which have 27" touch screens. Many Apps from the iPad are being ported to Windows NT, MorphWiz (a popular App for Musicians) is an App that's been ported and is spectacular on a 27" screen. On an iPad 4 you can play Solos on a small 10" screen, but with Windows 8 you can play Bass and Solo, plus chords!
Playing MorphWiz on an 10" iPad.
Here's the same App on a 27" Windows computer… Uh Oh! For many musicians the improved screen real-estate is significant enough to boot the iPad off their purchasing list.
Don't get me wrong, I'm an Apple fanboy and Apple needs to step up fast and bring out a 27" iPad. I'm not saying they should make iOS Apps playable on OSX, but they need to come out with something bigger or they'll become irrelevant. Granted the PC has to be plugged in and the iPad has it's battery power, but imagine a 27 incher thats light, portable and a genuine iPad.
As a musician which would you choose?
A Painter? No doubt the 27"
A Publisher ? No contest.
Everyone knows Apple started the Tablet revolution that anyone can use, and we know they've been working on larger iPads, but the time has come to release them!
Now if only these could have multi-touch pressure sensitivity. Push harder on the screen to swell a trumpet chord or thicken brush strokes, but that's another story.
you must be one of those MS IT dinosaurs i wrote about.
The only reason I don't agree about the mini is that we didn't see this happen with the iPad, nor the IPhone, nor the Touch.
Once Apple establishes a price, they stick with it, or lower it.
in 2010 the entry price of the iPod touch increased from $199 to $229, so we did see it happen.
in a similar fashion, the 5th gen iPod is $299 even though the 4th gen stuck around at $199.
Apple bumping the 1st gen iPad mini to down to $299 and releasing a 2nd gen iPad mini with retina for $399 would not be breaking any traditions you seem to believe Apple has on pricing.
in 2010 the entry price of the iPod touch increased from $199 to $229, so we did see it happen.
in a similar fashion, the 5th gen iPod is $299 even though the 4th gen stuck around at $199.
Apple bumping the 1st gen iPad mini to down to $299 and releasing a 2nd gen iPad mini with retina for $399 would not be breaking any traditions you seem to believe Apple has on pricing.
So to re-cap, the current flagship entry level iPod Touch has always listed for $299 or $229 depending on capacity, except for the original 8GB Touch which sold for a $70 premium before permanently dropping in price per the pattern noted in Time article linked above. The $199 price has always been for last years model as the current $199 Touch which also offers 16GB for the same price as the previous 8GB models sold at that price. The only exception to that was after the 8GB 4th gen. debuted at the previously established price of $229 then dropped to $199, which again was a permanent price drop for 8GB for the current model, which is a vast gulf from what is arguably the true entry level Touch at 32GB (they didn't even offer a 16GB new, nor in the 3rd gen. either, so this was clearly part of another pattern of establishing a "teaser" product at a minimal price which posed no real threat to the value of the flagship product, as they have done with the iPhone, and iPad 2).
So I stick by my observation that once Apple sets a price point for a flagship product it remains there or drops regardless of feature improvements.
And just to be clear, this pertains to iOS pricing only, I never said anything about Macs, which may often follow this pattern, do not always as they neither have the scale of volume as iDevices, nor consistency of parts and features between models.
This is by far the best small sized tablet on the market today. Compared to the Nexus 7, the mini is thinner, lighter, made out of aluminum and not plastic, has a more stable and reliable os, has a higher resale value, has more tablet optimized apps, etc...
So to re-cap, the current flagship entry level iPod Touch has always listed for $299 or $229 depending on capacity, except for the original 8GB Touch which sold for a $70 premium before permanently dropping in price per the pattern noted in Time article linked above. The $199 price has always been for last years model as the current $199 Touch which also offers 16GB for the same price as the previous 8GB models sold at that price. The only exception to that was after the 8GB 4th gen. debuted at the previously established price of $229 then dropped to $199, which again was a permanent price drop for 8GB for the current model, which is a vast gulf from what is arguably the true entry level Touch at 32GB (they didn't even offer a 16GB new, nor in the 3rd gen. either, so this was clearly part of another pattern of establishing a "teaser" product at a minimal price which posed no real threat to the value of the flagship product, as they have done with the iPhone, and iPad 2).
So I stick by my observation that once Apple sets a price point for a flagship product it remains there or drops regardless of feature improvements.
And just to be clear, this pertains to iOS pricing only, I never said anything about Macs, which may often follow this pattern, do not always as they neither have the scale of volume as iDevices, nor consistency of parts and features between models.
my facts are sound. you are bending the rules and changing your tune to make things turn out in your favor. you are wrong. you are a pompus blowhard and a troll. that is all. i'm done with this conversation and i will never make the mistake of replying to you ever again.
So I stick by my observation that once Apple sets a price point for a flagship product it remains there or drops regardless of feature improvements.
And just to be clear, this pertains to iOS pricing only, I never said anything about Macs, which may often follow this pattern, do not always as they neither have the scale of volume as iDevices, nor consistency of parts and features between models.
I like how you skipped the model that proves you wrong:
That is without any capacity games. With capacity games we have the 5th gen touch that starts at a minimum of $299.
Even more pronounced with Mac Mini:
Base Price:
Mac Mini 2005: $499
Mac Mini 2007: $599
Mac Mini 2010: $699
Apple is certainly not afraid to raise prices when it makes sense. The Retina Mini increasing in price will make sense. The only real question is how much the retina mini will increase. It will be somewhere from $349 to $399. The regular mini will of course fall in price, but only a modest amount. It will be $279-$299 base.
Since we can all be prone to wishful thinking, I chose the high end of the range as my previous estimate. So:
Mini $299
Retina Mini $399.
This gives an excellent spread of devices from $200 to $500 with price/sizes covered between $200 shirt pocket (touch), to $500 couch surfing full size Retina.
I didn't leave it out. There was no 3rd gen. 8GB IPod Touch, it was the same 2nd gen. 8GB Touch continued over exactly the same way the current 4th gen. 16GB is at $199 now. Thus remaining consistent with their established pattern of pricing iOS devices.
Your source clarifies this in the link you provided:
Although they originally were sold as a single lineup with 8 GB, 32 GB, and 64 GB of storage, this 8 GB model effectively is the same as the 8 GB configuration of the iPod touch 2nd Generation and does not fully support iOS 4 nor does it support subsequent versions of the iOS at all.
And again, I never said anything about Macs, the margins are just to small to justify maintaining price points.
I didn't leave it out. There was no 3rd gen. 8GB IPod Touch, it was the same 2nd gen. 8GB Touch continued over exactly the same way the current 4th gen. 16GB is at $199 now. Thus remaining consistent with their established pattern of pricing iOS devices.
Your source clarifies this in the link you provided:
And again, I never said anything about Macs, the margins are just to small to justify maintaining price points.
Macs have bigger margins than an iPod touch. You can't ignore Macs just because they don't back your argument. Apple will set prices that make sense.
Nothing but time will settle this. But I am quite sure my numbers are close to reality, your iPad mini at $200 delusion won't come to pass. It is just completely out of touch with reality. I'll bookmark for future claim chowder and move on.
Macs have bigger margins than an iPod touch. You can't ignore Macs just because they don't back your argument. Apple will set prices that make sense.
Nothing but time will settle this. But I am quite sure my numbers are close to reality, your iPad mini at $200 delusion won't come to pass. It is just completely out of touch with reality. I'll bookmark for future claim chowder and move on.
Margins is the wrong word. What I said first, sales volume/economy of scale. Macs account for a small percentage of Apple's bottom line -- At last count something like 14% across 5 product lines ... Compare that to iPhone, iPad and iPod making up 75% of Apple's total revenue. At that scale and volume, you could subsidize almost anything. No wonder the Mac's margins are higher, they invest a considerable amount of money to support that ecosystem and sell relatively few of them.
Now taking a look at Apple's Q3 report, I noticed that the entire iPod line accounts for only 3% of Apple's profits. That's an incredibly tiny portion of their business. Since there are four models of iPod, and the Touch is the best seller, accounting for about 1.5% of Apple's profits -- down about a million units from last year as well. Compare that to the iPad's 26% of Apple's bottom line, which grew along with the iPhone over last year. So therein lies another reason I can see the iPod Touch going away if the iPad mini cannibilizes more from the Touch (as many pundits expect), rather than from the iPad, considering the iPod profits are in general decline. However well the Touch sells, the iPod is a significantly smaller segment of Apple's ecosystem than I realized, even smaller than the Mac, which I thought was Apple's lowest performing area (yet it too also had year over year growth in contrast to iPod). So the only thing that may be keeping the iPod division going is the percentage of iTunes purchases they may responsible for, as iTunes represents 6% of Apple's net profits.
As you say, only time will tell. But based on the paucity of profits the iPod Touch represents to Apple's bottom line, and the fact the iPod line is in general decline, I don't expect the Touch to be around in two years if its sales drop further whether the mini canibalize them or not, especially when there are other more lucrative products in Apple's stable to absorb the Touch users ... It's not like Microsoft or Android offers anything to compete with it. But who knows ...
So here%u2019s the deal. Outasight has a new album out on November 27th called Nights Like These. The cover just dropped and in celebration of it, we%u2019re doing a fan cover contest with a great prize - the new iPad Mini.
I've been banging on this perception of ripoff for memory for a while now. It is not just a matter of the cost of the parts!
Each memory differentiation costs money in parts inventory tracking, logistics and production, and later in inventory and sales.There have to be separate production lines for each memory model, and this is multiplied by the connectivity options and (probably) by colors. Each line requires new factory space and trained shifts of workers. And so on.
Unless you can cost all that out and present us with an analysis you have no business assuming it's a ripoff.
If 32GB NAND is about $18-$25 more than 16GB NAND (& I add some of the costs you so astutely mentioned above), then I sure as hell can state my opinion, regardless of you thinking I "have no business". I have seen blogs/posts/articles written about this (CNET & others), so I know I'm not alone with my perception/opinion.
I'm well aware of the concept of upselling and "loss leaders" as some here have already pointed out. I'm glad that some here emphasized that...much more valuable than your unsupportable theory (which you have not supplied any cost information either).
I empathize with other consumers on this matter. There are other lines of 7" tablets that offer 32GB at only $50 above the 16GB, but realize that Galaxy Tab is typically $100 more...similar to iPad Mini.
I think that $339/16GB and $399/32GB could be win-win price points...as more consumers would have upsold themselves to the 32GB at that smaller $70 price increase.
And next time, please don't refute others merely by saying they have no proof...this is a rumor site. :-)
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128
You need to get out of whatever major metropolis you subsist in, and take a look at the rest of the world.
First I have an iPhone, and without cellular and wifi its pretty much an iPod touch with better hardware.
Second I said "may not" work in foreign countries. I travelled to Paris and Spain this Summer as a matter of fact. I could not find free wifi anywhere in Paris, and with my locked iPhone 4S I had no cell service, as I was unwilling to pay ATTs exorbitant world plan, or outrageous roaming fees, and truly The number of people I met without any Internet at home, much less wifi, was shocking in a major metropolitan city. Outside of Paris wifi was nonexistent. Spain was worse. I mainly was forced to pay to use computers at Internet cafes ... My iDevice was mostly useless. At least the next time I go back, my 4S will be unlocked and I can buy a local SIM card for both cellular and data. And don't get me started on El Salvador ...
But let's just stick to the good old USA for a moment, farmers and ranchers in the Midwest don't have access to either cellular or wifi when working on the land. Hunters rarely have such luxuries, much less power to recharge. Ever been to a national park? Nothing, nada. Military outposts, sailors at sea, etc. Ever driven through South Dakota? It's a long damn drive and you probably won't like what staticky radio stations you might find there. And ill bet you there are people in NY and NJ right now who are thrilled they bought an iPod Classic with 36 hours of battery life. There's a whole world outside of Silicon Valley, and a thriving market of people around the world who don't have access to the free wifi, 4G LTE, or even regular power.
Finally, as for the cost of manufacturing ... Clarify your statement. What don't "people" understand? As long as there is a market for a device, the cost of the parts has long been subsidized by bulk purchase. Of course there's still a cost to manufacture, but the fact Apple has not changed the design, nor had to market the Classic all save millions which can go into maintaining production for the albeit small, but nevertheless significant market for the Classic. Why else would Apple maintain the Mac Pro? Fewer people buy the MacPro than likely buy the iPod Classic, but it is a well defined market segment which requires little or no marketing to maintain the status quo, which in turn helps support the larger mor expensive ecosystem. And look, as I said before, the Classic does not cannibalize from any other existing product, unlike the Touch which takes money away from Apple's other similar products, as well as costing significant investment in upgrading the device to keep it competitive.
As for using them side by side ... Been there done that. I much prefer using the mini to my iPhone limited to the same functions. gaming is better, watching movies is better, reading books is better, and the mini is not significantly bigger. So stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. This is what I prefer, and I have expressed a related opinion based on broad experience. Hardly hot air. But feel free to disagree. It's a free country.
Apple is a business.
I can't believe that you wrote these long replies after long replies to "substantiate" your opinions about the iPod touch.
I disagree with your opinions.
You mentioned that you traveled to Europe, and you also considered farmers and people in the outdoors. But somehow, I feel that you are still not connected to reality (and the market). I think you still need to get out more and see even more of the world.
That you traveled with a locked iPhone and that you had to pay for wifi in Paris and Spain seem to indicate that you lack experience.
It's great that Apple is going after the Kindle sized tablets, but they may be going in the wrong direction.
It's very possible Microsoft could beat Apple to the punch, and make the iPad look like a dinosaur. Don't believe me? Take a look at this.
Windows NT mobile apps can run on Window 8 desktop computers, which have 27" touch screens. Many Apps from the iPad are being ported to Windows NT, MorphWiz (a popular App for Musicians) is an App that's been ported and is spectacular on a 27" screen. On an iPad 4 you can play Solos on a small 10" screen, but with Windows 8 you can play Bass and Solo, plus chords!
Playing MorphWiz on an 10" iPad.
Here's the same App on a 27" Windows computer… Uh Oh! For many musicians the improved screen real-estate is significant enough to boot the iPad off their purchasing list.
Don't get me wrong, I'm an Apple fanboy and Apple needs to step up fast and bring out a 27" iPad. I'm not saying they should make iOS Apps playable on OSX, but they need to come out with something bigger or they'll become irrelevant. Granted the PC has to be plugged in and the iPad has it's battery power, but imagine a 27 incher thats light, portable and a genuine iPad.
As a musician which would you choose?
A Painter? No doubt the 27"
A Publisher ? No contest.
Everyone knows Apple started the Tablet revolution that anyone can use, and we know they've been working on larger iPads, but the time has come to release them!
Now if only these could have multi-touch pressure sensitivity. Push harder on the screen to swell a trumpet chord or thicken brush strokes, but that's another story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128
The only reason I don't agree about the mini is that we didn't see this happen with the iPad, nor the IPhone, nor the Touch.
Once Apple establishes a price, they stick with it, or lower it.
You haven't been paying attention, prices have bounced up and down, from $199 to $249, and now the new version is $299. Mac Mini went from $499 base to $599 base. Prices move up when it makes sense.
Quote:
Flawed or not, my rationale about the mini replacing the Touch seems more likely to me now, as the iPad 2 has taken on a prominent role in education with some pretty good arguments for a 10" tablet for that purpose made here.
If Apple continues its previous pattern, then it makes perfect sense that in two years we would see the previous generation of the mini drop to $200, just like the iPad 2.
Perhaps I wasn't strenuous enough the first time so I think that other guy was onto something.
Are you batshit nuts?
1) The touch is still a very strong seller. It's a music player that fits in a shirt pocket. The mini doesn't replace it.
2) $200 only gets you an old A4 Touch, no way in hell are they reducing an iPad mini anywhere near that. Of my predictions, the new iPod touch 16:9 making it down to $200 is the biggest stretch.
3) Math also seems to be a weakness for you. iPad 2 with bigger ASP and bigger margins drops 20% and you think it is the same thing as the Mini with lower ASP/Margin dropping 40%. Batshit nuts. If anything the smaller ASP/Margin product will drop less. Think 10% instead of 20% like iPad 2, and certainly not 40%.
+1
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobborries
It's great that Apple is going after the Kindle sized tablets, but they may be going in the wrong direction.
It's very possible Microsoft could beat Apple to the punch, and make the iPad look like a dinosaur. Don't believe me? Take a look at this.
Windows NT mobile apps can run on Window 8 desktop computers, which have 27" touch screens. Many Apps from the iPad are being ported to Windows NT, MorphWiz (a popular App for Musicians) is an App that's been ported and is spectacular on a 27" screen. On an iPad 4 you can play Solos on a small 10" screen, but with Windows 8 you can play Bass and Solo, plus chords!
Playing MorphWiz on an 10" iPad.
Here's the same App on a 27" Windows computer… Uh Oh! For many musicians the improved screen real-estate is significant enough to boot the iPad off their purchasing list.
Don't get me wrong, I'm an Apple fanboy and Apple needs to step up fast and bring out a 27" iPad. I'm not saying they should make iOS Apps playable on OSX, but they need to come out with something bigger or they'll become irrelevant. Granted the PC has to be plugged in and the iPad has it's battery power, but imagine a 27 incher thats light, portable and a genuine iPad.
As a musician which would you choose?
A Painter? No doubt the 27"
A Publisher ? No contest.
Everyone knows Apple started the Tablet revolution that anyone can use, and we know they've been working on larger iPads, but the time has come to release them!
Now if only these could have multi-touch pressure sensitivity. Push harder on the screen to swell a trumpet chord or thicken brush strokes, but that's another story.
you must be one of those MS IT dinosaurs i wrote about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128
The only reason I don't agree about the mini is that we didn't see this happen with the iPad, nor the IPhone, nor the Touch.
Once Apple establishes a price, they stick with it, or lower it.
in 2010 the entry price of the iPod touch increased from $199 to $229, so we did see it happen.
in a similar fashion, the 5th gen iPod is $299 even though the 4th gen stuck around at $199.
Apple bumping the 1st gen iPad mini to down to $299 and releasing a 2nd gen iPad mini with retina for $399 would not be breaking any traditions you seem to believe Apple has on pricing.
I don't form these opinions in a vacuum ...
http://techland.time.com/2012/11/05/why-the-ipad-mini-is-priced-at-329/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2012/11/06/the-trouble-with-apples-ipad-mini/
http://www.zdnet.com/apples-new-ipad-mini-great-for-those-moving-up-from-ipod-touch-not-for-those-with-an-ipad-already-7000006241/
And you might want to check your facts and compare Apples to, um Apples ...
Entry price for current model flagship iPod Touch
8GB $299 -- http://apple-history.com/ipod_touch
8GB $229 -- http://apple-history.com/ipod_touch_2g
32GB $299 -- http://apple-history.com/ipod_touch_3g
8GB $229 -- http://apple-history.com/ipod_touch_4g
32GB $299 -- http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_ipod/family/ipod_touch
So to re-cap, the current flagship entry level iPod Touch has always listed for $299 or $229 depending on capacity, except for the original 8GB Touch which sold for a $70 premium before permanently dropping in price per the pattern noted in Time article linked above. The $199 price has always been for last years model as the current $199 Touch which also offers 16GB for the same price as the previous 8GB models sold at that price. The only exception to that was after the 8GB 4th gen. debuted at the previously established price of $229 then dropped to $199, which again was a permanent price drop for 8GB for the current model, which is a vast gulf from what is arguably the true entry level Touch at 32GB (they didn't even offer a 16GB new, nor in the 3rd gen. either, so this was clearly part of another pattern of establishing a "teaser" product at a minimal price which posed no real threat to the value of the flagship product, as they have done with the iPhone, and iPad 2).
So I stick by my observation that once Apple sets a price point for a flagship product it remains there or drops regardless of feature improvements.
And just to be clear, this pertains to iOS pricing only, I never said anything about Macs, which may often follow this pattern, do not always as they neither have the scale of volume as iDevices, nor consistency of parts and features between models.
Originally Posted by skeoghman
In Ireland the mini costs %u20AC339 ($432) for 16GB, %u20AC439 ($560) for 32GB. For reasons best known to Apple..
VAT and international taxes. There; now the reasons are known to everyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128
I don't form these opinions in a vacuum ...
http://techland.time.com/2012/11/05/why-the-ipad-mini-is-priced-at-329/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2012/11/06/the-trouble-with-apples-ipad-mini/
http://www.zdnet.com/apples-new-ipad-mini-great-for-those-moving-up-from-ipod-touch-not-for-those-with-an-ipad-already-7000006241/
And you might want to check your facts and compare Apples to, um Apples ...
Entry price for current model flagship iPod Touch
8GB $299 -- http://apple-history.com/ipod_touch
8GB $229 -- http://apple-history.com/ipod_touch_2g
32GB $299 -- http://apple-history.com/ipod_touch_3g
8GB $229 -- http://apple-history.com/ipod_touch_4g
32GB $299 -- http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_ipod/family/ipod_touch
So to re-cap, the current flagship entry level iPod Touch has always listed for $299 or $229 depending on capacity, except for the original 8GB Touch which sold for a $70 premium before permanently dropping in price per the pattern noted in Time article linked above. The $199 price has always been for last years model as the current $199 Touch which also offers 16GB for the same price as the previous 8GB models sold at that price. The only exception to that was after the 8GB 4th gen. debuted at the previously established price of $229 then dropped to $199, which again was a permanent price drop for 8GB for the current model, which is a vast gulf from what is arguably the true entry level Touch at 32GB (they didn't even offer a 16GB new, nor in the 3rd gen. either, so this was clearly part of another pattern of establishing a "teaser" product at a minimal price which posed no real threat to the value of the flagship product, as they have done with the iPhone, and iPad 2).
So I stick by my observation that once Apple sets a price point for a flagship product it remains there or drops regardless of feature improvements.
And just to be clear, this pertains to iOS pricing only, I never said anything about Macs, which may often follow this pattern, do not always as they neither have the scale of volume as iDevices, nor consistency of parts and features between models.
my facts are sound. you are bending the rules and changing your tune to make things turn out in your favor. you are wrong. you are a pompus blowhard and a troll. that is all. i'm done with this conversation and i will never make the mistake of replying to you ever again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128
So I stick by my observation that once Apple sets a price point for a flagship product it remains there or drops regardless of feature improvements.
And just to be clear, this pertains to iOS pricing only, I never said anything about Macs, which may often follow this pattern, do not always as they neither have the scale of volume as iDevices, nor consistency of parts and features between models.
I like how you skipped the model that proves you wrong:
iPod Touch 3rd Gen 8GB $199:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/ipod/specs/ipod-touch-3rd-gen-8-gb-specs.html
iPod Touch 4th Generation 8GB $229
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/ipod/specs/ipod-touch-4th-gen-4g-facetime-specs.html
That is without any capacity games. With capacity games we have the 5th gen touch that starts at a minimum of $299.
Even more pronounced with Mac Mini:
Base Price:
Mac Mini 2005: $499
Mac Mini 2007: $599
Mac Mini 2010: $699
Apple is certainly not afraid to raise prices when it makes sense. The Retina Mini increasing in price will make sense. The only real question is how much the retina mini will increase. It will be somewhere from $349 to $399. The regular mini will of course fall in price, but only a modest amount. It will be $279-$299 base.
Since we can all be prone to wishful thinking, I chose the high end of the range as my previous estimate. So:
Mini $299
Retina Mini $399.
This gives an excellent spread of devices from $200 to $500 with price/sizes covered between $200 shirt pocket (touch), to $500 couch surfing full size Retina.
Your source clarifies this in the link you provided:
And again, I never said anything about Macs, the margins are just to small to justify maintaining price points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128
I didn't leave it out. There was no 3rd gen. 8GB IPod Touch, it was the same 2nd gen. 8GB Touch continued over exactly the same way the current 4th gen. 16GB is at $199 now. Thus remaining consistent with their established pattern of pricing iOS devices.
Your source clarifies this in the link you provided:
And again, I never said anything about Macs, the margins are just to small to justify maintaining price points.
Macs have bigger margins than an iPod touch. You can't ignore Macs just because they don't back your argument. Apple will set prices that make sense.
Nothing but time will settle this. But I am quite sure my numbers are close to reality, your iPad mini at $200 delusion won't come to pass. It is just completely out of touch with reality. I'll bookmark for future claim chowder and move on.
Now taking a look at Apple's Q3 report, I noticed that the entire iPod line accounts for only 3% of Apple's profits. That's an incredibly tiny portion of their business. Since there are four models of iPod, and the Touch is the best seller, accounting for about 1.5% of Apple's profits -- down about a million units from last year as well. Compare that to the iPad's 26% of Apple's bottom line, which grew along with the iPhone over last year. So therein lies another reason I can see the iPod Touch going away if the iPad mini cannibilizes more from the Touch (as many pundits expect), rather than from the iPad, considering the iPod profits are in general decline. However well the Touch sells, the iPod is a significantly smaller segment of Apple's ecosystem than I realized, even smaller than the Mac, which I thought was Apple's lowest performing area (yet it too also had year over year growth in contrast to iPod). So the only thing that may be keeping the iPod division going is the percentage of iTunes purchases they may responsible for, as iTunes represents 6% of Apple's net profits.
As you say, only time will tell. But based on the paucity of profits the iPod Touch represents to Apple's bottom line, and the fact the iPod line is in general decline, I don't expect the Touch to be around in two years if its sales drop further whether the mini canibalize them or not, especially when there are other more lucrative products in Apple's stable to absorb the Touch users ... It's not like Microsoft or Android offers anything to compete with it. But who knows ...
So here%u2019s the deal. Outasight has a new album out on November 27th called Nights Like These. The cover just dropped and in celebration of it, we%u2019re doing a fan cover contest with a great prize - the new iPad Mini.
ENTER NOW!!!
In Paris, Mcdonalds has a free wifi, so do other sandwich shops...
McDonald's in the US has free WIFi, too but we don't all it Royale with Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
I've been banging on this perception of ripoff for memory for a while now. It is not just a matter of the cost of the parts!
Each memory differentiation costs money in parts inventory tracking, logistics and production, and later in inventory and sales.There have to be separate production lines for each memory model, and this is multiplied by the connectivity options and (probably) by colors. Each line requires new factory space and trained shifts of workers. And so on.
Unless you can cost all that out and present us with an analysis you have no business assuming it's a ripoff.
If 32GB NAND is about $18-$25 more than 16GB NAND (& I add some of the costs you so astutely mentioned above), then I sure as hell can state my opinion, regardless of you thinking I "have no business". I have seen blogs/posts/articles written about this (CNET & others), so I know I'm not alone with my perception/opinion.
I'm well aware of the concept of upselling and "loss leaders" as some here have already pointed out. I'm glad that some here emphasized that...much more valuable than your unsupportable theory (which you have not supplied any cost information either).
I empathize with other consumers on this matter. There are other lines of 7" tablets that offer 32GB at only $50 above the 16GB, but realize that Galaxy Tab is typically $100 more...similar to iPad Mini.
I think that $339/16GB and $399/32GB could be win-win price points...as more consumers would have upsold themselves to the 32GB at that smaller $70 price increase.
And next time, please don't refute others merely by saying they have no proof...this is a rumor site. :-)