I read one report that said that in 30 years North America will become the manufacturing base for cheap goods sold to China while China will become the exporter of high end machinery. A total reverse of today.
TVs are big and probably have higher shipping costs than other consumer electronics, perhaps why they want to make those closer to selling point.
Detroit? Seriously the welfare capital of the USA. We really don't need people on public assistance buying TVs of any sort much less large screen machines.
Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook was asked earlier this year about the possibility of manufacturing his company's products in America. He said he would like for Apple products to be made stateside, but he also noted that critics have placed an "intense focus" on final assembly, while there is a great deal more to creating devices than just that one step.
It would be interesting to see the wages that Apple's US work force totals to as compared to the 700K+ workers in China making Apple products add up too.
I suspect that Apple's US wages total far more than the 700K+ working in China.
Would it be better for Apple or any company to keep adding higher wages jobs in the US or exchange those for lot more lower wage jobs. I do not care how you sell it, no company is going to pay someone more than minimum wage to sit in a factory snapping together or driving screws. Knowing what engineers get paid, you would have to replace every lost engineer job with 4 or 5 factory assemblers. Also one engineer wages probably has more expendable incoming to buy other thing than the 4 or 5 factory works have together.
This county has to focus on making our people more marketable for higher paying jobs verse trying to figure how to being back a factory.
Why is DigiTimes always panned? Remember the iPad Mini talk from like a year ago? Seems like that was pretty true. I feel like they come out of left-field and sometimes publish rumors far before others.. and many times they're actually true. Yet, the stereotype holds.
I don't care what they're assembling, jobs in the US is win win no matter what the circumstances. It's a step in the right direction to bring jobs back. I hope the rumors are true!
It is only a win if we are in an equal footing with competitors. More so the world only wins if all economies are expanding. Point in fact it really doesn't matter where iPhone is being assembled, most of the complaints revolve around the lost of jobs but the reality is these are not lost jobs. Lost jobs are the result of a factory shutting down to move production to China.
And yes, I'd pay an extra $50 per phone if it meant jobs in the US.
I wouldn't.
Frankly this is the problem with much of the bring the jobs back to the USA movement. If the majority of the people here where willing to pay the extra dollars for a USA made product they would still be made in the USA. Sadly people don't pay the extra dollars even if they say they will. This isn't even debatable many manufactures have gone under simply because people didn't not pay the extra cost for a USA made product.
You may personally not do that but history has shown that all things being equal people will go for cheap as opposed to US made.
Why is DigiTimes always panned? Remember the iPad Mini talk from like a year ago? Seems like that was pretty true. I feel like they come out of left-field and sometimes publish rumors far before others.. and many times they're actually true. Yet, the stereotype holds.
Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. People have been asking about a smaller iPad since the iPad was introduced, so Digitimes was very likely adding nothing new short of picking up what people are talking about and restating it.
Los Angeles or Detroit for factories! Are these people crazy? There's are reasons why both cities have high unemployment rates. They have high taxes, hideous regulations, corrupt governments, and almost no work ethic, not to mention horrible rates of drug addiction and crime.
Foxconn needs to take note what Asian automakers are doing. They're locating in the Southeastern United States where there's a solid Scot-Irish work ethic, a low cost of living, and friendly, cooperative local governments. When I was a kid growing up in Alabama, it grew a lot of cotton but made no cars. Now it makes 750,000 cars a year. The largest auto factory in the world is in Mississippi and there's a huge Kia factory in Georgia not far from where my sister lives. It and the factories of subcontractors line an Interstate for about ten miles. And these are state-of-art factories with well-trained workforces. There's none of the hostility to change or adapting that you'll find in the UAW-dominated regions of the country (i.e. Michigan or Ohio). People want good wages, but they'll also work hard for them and learn something new.
Perhaps Foxconn is confusing the U.S. with China. China is not troubled by many of the pathologies that dominate some U.S. cities. The rather ruthless sort of state capitalism that's replaced communism in China can assume a work ethic and needs only to look for places that have or can attract large numbers of workers desperately eager for jobs at any wage. Superficially, Los Angeles and Detroit may look like those sorts of places, but they're not. Not even close.
Perhaps Foxconn has been talking to some politicians in the Democratic party. Clueless about business and ignorant of even the basics of balancing a budget, all those politicians can think about is posing at a factory opening in either of those cities. They care not that, like the solar factories the Obama administration has poured huge sums into, those business rolled belly-up in a few years. They've had their photo op. They've pretended to care.
Or there could be another and more devious reason for what Foxconn is doing. It's thinking of coming here and, backed by billions in tax-payer money, build factories where the politicians want but knowing from the start that they will fail. Then after they fail, Foxconn can then say, "Well, we tried factories in the U.S. but they didn't work out."
Personally, I find this very hard to believe. Making LCDs is a very low-margin business. The traditional Japanese manufacturers, like Sony and Panasonic, are all losing money at it even though everything except their top line sets (and sometimes even those) are manufactured in China, Mexico and other low-wage countries.
So I don't see how Foxconn can successfully operate manufacturing in the U.S. even if they got away with paying minimum wage and with keeping the unions out, which will be near impossible to do. But if they do, fantastic - we can certainly use the jobs.
One problem for Apple is that if Foxconn adds manufacturing in the U.S. for non-Apple products, I think there will be far more pressure on Apple to build here. And I most certainly do not buy the argument than those Chinese workers are somehow more educated or better trained than American workers, since most of those Foxconn workers are coming from the farms, not the urban centers. The high-skill part of manufacturing is the development and manufacturing of the machine tools, not the assembly.
I really have to wonder if people on this forum have ever actually read DigiTimes or frankly if they can read for content at all. DigiTimes isn't trolling they are simply reporting as such what they report is only as good as their sources.
It isn't an effort at trolling. These reports are just part of the spectrum of news that published by DigiTimes and is about as useful as any fish wrapper.
Digitimes is the source for the majority of false rumors. IMO they manufacture them at this point. You can't blame it on faulty sources. Who would keep returning to faulty sources? I figure at some point they realized false rumors bring just as many hits as real ones, so they have become a rumor factory.
This is nonsense! Almost every factory in the US is paying above minimum wage rates. Wages might be slightly lower due to the economy but the idea that there is an excess of people out there willing and able to work in a factory is a mistake.
<span style="color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:18.200000762939453px;">Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook was asked </span>
<a href="http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/05/30/tim_cook_i_want_there_to_be_american_made_apple_products.html" style="border:0px;font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:18.200000762939453px;" target="_blank">earlier this year</a>
<span style="color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:18.200000762939453px;"> about the possibility of manufacturing his company's products in America. He said he would like for Apple products to be made stateside, but he also noted that critics have placed an "intense focus" on final assembly, while there is a great deal more to creating devices than just that one step.</span>
It would be interesting to see the wages that Apple's US work force totals to as compared to the 700K+ workers in China making Apple products add up too.
I suspect that Apple's US wages total far more than the 700K+ working in China.
Would it be better for Apple or any company to keep adding higher wages jobs in the US or exchange those for lot more lower wage jobs. I do not care how you sell it, no company is going to pay someone more than minimum wage to sit in a factory snapping together or driving screws. Knowing what engineers get paid, you would have to replace every lost engineer job with 4 or 5 factory assemblers. Also one engineer wages probably has more expendable incoming to buy other thing than the 4 or 5 factory works have together.
This county has to focus on making our people more marketable for higher paying jobs verse trying to figure how to being back a factory.
The reality is very few factories in the USA pay minimum wage rates. Often production line workers are paid well above that. On the otherhand you rightfully point out that Foxconn workers are actually being paid faily well too. When it comes right down to it the assembly effort or cost isn't a big deal. That is wages paid are only a small factor in the cost of the product.
If the scenario in the article was to come true then I really don't think the iPhone workers would get anything above minimum wage. Regular US factory wages would kill any such deal.
IOW... the story is complete fantasy if it means manufacturing iPhones in the USA.
This is nonsense! Almost every factory in the US is paying above minimum wage rates. Wages might be slightly lower due to the economy but the idea that there is an excess of people out there willing and able to work in a factory is a mistake.
Probably because of short memories and an I willingness to actually read the publication. All people need to do is to actually read the publication and the articles quoted after which I think their opinion of the publication would change dramatically.
Why is DigiTimes always panned? Remember the iPad Mini talk from like a year ago? Seems like that was pretty true. I feel like they come out of left-field and sometimes publish rumors far before others.. and many times they're actually true. Yet, the stereotype holds.
I really have to wonder if people on this forum have ever actually read DigiTimes or frankly if they can read for content at all. DigiTimes isn't trolling they are simply reporting as such what they report is only as good as their sources.
It isn't an effort at trolling. These reports are just part of the spectrum of news that published by DigiTimes and is about as useful as any fish wrapper.
Digitimes is the source for the majority of false rumors. IMO they manufacture them at this point. You can't blame it on faulty sources. Who would keep returning to faulty sources? I figure at some point they realized false rumors bring just as many hits as real ones, so they have become a rumor factory.
This is nonsense! Almost every factory in the US is paying above minimum wage rates. Wages might be slightly lower due to the economy but the idea that there is an excess of people out there willing and able to work in a factory is a mistake.
Really? You actually believe that?
Most certainly. Do realize I have direct experience with this issue and work in a factory that is constantly hiring to replace people that don't want to work. We are talking a factory with production jobs that are a cake walk.
One guy alluded to people that come in and work for a couple of hours and never come back. That does happen more often than you think. Frankly these sorts are actually a good thing because you don't have to evaluate their abilities or willingness to work.
Other issues that are a bigger problem are the workers that come in drunk or stoned. Substance abuse is a huge problem not only for product quality and and productivity but is a huge safety issue. Another significant issue is the many people that are frankly too stupid to work in a factory. You may see that as crude, calling people stupid, but modern factories require people that have something going up stairs.
I could go on and on but it is a mistake to believe that there are that many unemployed out there suitable for work in a factory. Mind you this is a plant that pays well above minimum wage.
I read one report that said that in 30 years North America will become the manufacturing base for cheap goods sold to China while China will become the exporter of high end machinery. A total reverse of today.
I may happen if the gap between poor and rich widens.
Most certainly. Do realize I have direct experience with this issue and work in a factory that is constantly hiring to replace people that don't want to work. We are talking a factory with production jobs that are a cake walk.
One guy alluded to people that come in and work for a couple of hours and never come back. That does happen more often than you think. Frankly these sorts are actually a good thing because you don't have to evaluate their abilities or willingness to work.
Other issues that are a bigger problem are the workers that come in drunk or stoned. Substance abuse is a huge problem not only for product quality and and productivity but is a huge safety issue. Another significant issue is the many people that are frankly too stupid to work in a factory. You may see that as crude, calling people stupid, but modern factories require people that have something going up stairs.
I could go on and on but it is a mistake to believe that there are that many unemployed out there suitable for work in a factory. Mind you this is a plant that pays well above minimum wage.
I agree completely. If we tried to hire factory workers at minimum wage, I doubt if we'd have a single applicant. And we're not even in a high cost of living area. Our entry level manufacturing jobs (which involve no particular technical skills and are probably comparable to iPhone assembly) start at around $10 per hour.
Minimum wage gets you a retail sales clerk (in some places) or a fast food worker and not a lot more.
First off just because a rumor doesn't pan out doesn't mean it wasn't true at the time.
Second you really should read the publication before passing judgement. Frankly you are basically full of it.
No, he's right. Digitimes rumors are almost always wrong. When they almost never get something right, it's silly to pretend that they were right up front and Apple changed its mind.
You MIGHT be able to make that argument with some of the analysts who are right 50% of the time, but with someone who's never right, it's a foolish bet. The person you were responding to is correct - it appears that Digitimes is simply making things up.
Most certainly. Do realize I have direct experience with this issue and work in a factory that is constantly hiring to replace people that don't want to work. We are talking a factory with production jobs that are a cake walk.
One guy alluded to people that come in and work for a couple of hours and never come back. That does happen more often than you think. Frankly these sorts are actually a good thing because you don't have to evaluate their abilities or willingness to work.
Other issues that are a bigger problem are the workers that come in drunk or stoned. Substance abuse is a huge problem not only for product quality and and productivity but is a huge safety issue. Another significant issue is the many people that are frankly too stupid to work in a factory. You may see that as crude, calling people stupid, but modern factories require people that have something going up stairs.
I could go on and on but it is a mistake to believe that there are that many unemployed out there suitable for work in a factory. Mind you this is a plant that pays well above minimum wage.
Glad there is someone with actual knowledge beside phony political views.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
I read one report that said that in 30 years North America will become the manufacturing base for cheap goods sold to China while China will become the exporter of high end machinery. A total reverse of today.
That's a great commercial
To drive Tim's comment home
Quote:
Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook was asked earlier this year about the possibility of manufacturing his company's products in America. He said he would like for Apple products to be made stateside, but he also noted that critics have placed an "intense focus" on final assembly, while there is a great deal more to creating devices than just that one step.
It would be interesting to see the wages that Apple's US work force totals to as compared to the 700K+ workers in China making Apple products add up too.
I suspect that Apple's US wages total far more than the 700K+ working in China.
Would it be better for Apple or any company to keep adding higher wages jobs in the US or exchange those for lot more lower wage jobs. I do not care how you sell it, no company is going to pay someone more than minimum wage to sit in a factory snapping together or driving screws. Knowing what engineers get paid, you would have to replace every lost engineer job with 4 or 5 factory assemblers. Also one engineer wages probably has more expendable incoming to buy other thing than the 4 or 5 factory works have together.
This county has to focus on making our people more marketable for higher paying jobs verse trying to figure how to being back a factory.
I wouldn't.
Frankly this is the problem with much of the bring the jobs back to the USA movement. If the majority of the people here where willing to pay the extra dollars for a USA made product they would still be made in the USA. Sadly people don't pay the extra dollars even if they say they will. This isn't even debatable many manufactures have gone under simply because people didn't not pay the extra cost for a USA made product.
You may personally not do that but history has shown that all things being equal people will go for cheap as opposed to US made.
Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. People have been asking about a smaller iPad since the iPad was introduced, so Digitimes was very likely adding nothing new short of picking up what people are talking about and restating it.
Foxconn needs to take note what Asian automakers are doing. They're locating in the Southeastern United States where there's a solid Scot-Irish work ethic, a low cost of living, and friendly, cooperative local governments. When I was a kid growing up in Alabama, it grew a lot of cotton but made no cars. Now it makes 750,000 cars a year. The largest auto factory in the world is in Mississippi and there's a huge Kia factory in Georgia not far from where my sister lives. It and the factories of subcontractors line an Interstate for about ten miles. And these are state-of-art factories with well-trained workforces. There's none of the hostility to change or adapting that you'll find in the UAW-dominated regions of the country (i.e. Michigan or Ohio). People want good wages, but they'll also work hard for them and learn something new.
Perhaps Foxconn is confusing the U.S. with China. China is not troubled by many of the pathologies that dominate some U.S. cities. The rather ruthless sort of state capitalism that's replaced communism in China can assume a work ethic and needs only to look for places that have or can attract large numbers of workers desperately eager for jobs at any wage. Superficially, Los Angeles and Detroit may look like those sorts of places, but they're not. Not even close.
Perhaps Foxconn has been talking to some politicians in the Democratic party. Clueless about business and ignorant of even the basics of balancing a budget, all those politicians can think about is posing at a factory opening in either of those cities. They care not that, like the solar factories the Obama administration has poured huge sums into, those business rolled belly-up in a few years. They've had their photo op. They've pretended to care.
Or there could be another and more devious reason for what Foxconn is doing. It's thinking of coming here and, backed by billions in tax-payer money, build factories where the politicians want but knowing from the start that they will fail. Then after they fail, Foxconn can then say, "Well, we tried factories in the U.S. but they didn't work out."
So I don't see how Foxconn can successfully operate manufacturing in the U.S. even if they got away with paying minimum wage and with keeping the unions out, which will be near impossible to do. But if they do, fantastic - we can certainly use the jobs.
One problem for Apple is that if Foxconn adds manufacturing in the U.S. for non-Apple products, I think there will be far more pressure on Apple to build here. And I most certainly do not buy the argument than those Chinese workers are somehow more educated or better trained than American workers, since most of those Foxconn workers are coming from the farms, not the urban centers. The high-skill part of manufacturing is the development and manufacturing of the machine tools, not the assembly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
I really have to wonder if people on this forum have ever actually read DigiTimes or frankly if they can read for content at all. DigiTimes isn't trolling they are simply reporting as such what they report is only as good as their sources.
It isn't an effort at trolling. These reports are just part of the spectrum of news that published by DigiTimes and is about as useful as any fish wrapper.
Digitimes is the source for the majority of false rumors. IMO they manufacture them at this point. You can't blame it on faulty sources. Who would keep returning to faulty sources? I figure at some point they realized false rumors bring just as many hits as real ones, so they have become a rumor factory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
The reality is very few factories in the USA pay minimum wage rates. Often production line workers are paid well above that. On the otherhand you rightfully point out that Foxconn workers are actually being paid faily well too. When it comes right down to it the assembly effort or cost isn't a big deal. That is wages paid are only a small factor in the cost of the product.
If the scenario in the article was to come true then I really don't think the iPhone workers would get anything above minimum wage. Regular US factory wages would kill any such deal.
IOW... the story is complete fantasy if it means manufacturing iPhones in the USA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
This is nonsense! Almost every factory in the US is paying above minimum wage rates. Wages might be slightly lower due to the economy but the idea that there is an excess of people out there willing and able to work in a factory is a mistake.
Really? You actually believe that?
Second you really should read the publication before passing judgement. Frankly you are basically full of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
First off just because a rumor doesn't pan out doesn't mean it wasn't true at the time.
Second you really should read the publication before passing judgement. Frankly you are basically full of it.
I have been to their page a number of times, but eventually I wised up and decided to stop supporting the rumor factory.
Most certainly. Do realize I have direct experience with this issue and work in a factory that is constantly hiring to replace people that don't want to work. We are talking a factory with production jobs that are a cake walk.
One guy alluded to people that come in and work for a couple of hours and never come back. That does happen more often than you think. Frankly these sorts are actually a good thing because you don't have to evaluate their abilities or willingness to work.
Other issues that are a bigger problem are the workers that come in drunk or stoned. Substance abuse is a huge problem not only for product quality and and productivity but is a huge safety issue. Another significant issue is the many people that are frankly too stupid to work in a factory. You may see that as crude, calling people stupid, but modern factories require people that have something going up stairs.
I could go on and on but it is a mistake to believe that there are that many unemployed out there suitable for work in a factory. Mind you this is a plant that pays well above minimum wage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
I read one report that said that in 30 years North America will become the manufacturing base for cheap goods sold to China while China will become the exporter of high end machinery. A total reverse of today.
I may happen if the gap between poor and rich widens.
I agree completely. If we tried to hire factory workers at minimum wage, I doubt if we'd have a single applicant. And we're not even in a high cost of living area. Our entry level manufacturing jobs (which involve no particular technical skills and are probably comparable to iPhone assembly) start at around $10 per hour.
Minimum wage gets you a retail sales clerk (in some places) or a fast food worker and not a lot more.
No, he's right. Digitimes rumors are almost always wrong. When they almost never get something right, it's silly to pretend that they were right up front and Apple changed its mind.
You MIGHT be able to make that argument with some of the analysts who are right 50% of the time, but with someone who's never right, it's a foolish bet. The person you were responding to is correct - it appears that Digitimes is simply making things up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Most certainly. Do realize I have direct experience with this issue and work in a factory that is constantly hiring to replace people that don't want to work. We are talking a factory with production jobs that are a cake walk.
One guy alluded to people that come in and work for a couple of hours and never come back. That does happen more often than you think. Frankly these sorts are actually a good thing because you don't have to evaluate their abilities or willingness to work.
Other issues that are a bigger problem are the workers that come in drunk or stoned. Substance abuse is a huge problem not only for product quality and and productivity but is a huge safety issue. Another significant issue is the many people that are frankly too stupid to work in a factory. You may see that as crude, calling people stupid, but modern factories require people that have something going up stairs.
I could go on and on but it is a mistake to believe that there are that many unemployed out there suitable for work in a factory. Mind you this is a plant that pays well above minimum wage.
Glad there is someone with actual knowledge beside phony political views.