Clearly, the stock is being manipulated by hedge fund managers and other big boys to give them a buying opportunity. It should be illegal, but these guys are the top donors to both parties, so we all have to sit by and witness this theft.
Exactly how does one manipulate the market? People who say this usually have no clue how trading actually works. Large stock holders are not going to panic and sell just because AI releases a story that Apple is having supply problems. Small AAPL investors are generally not reading any tech rumor blogs.
I think that the article is mostly correct. Wealthy investors want to take some money off the table to avoid the likely capital gains tax increase. Apple has the most gains so they also get the most loses since that is where the investors have the most profit but the entire market has been down lately not just Apple.
Exactly how does one manipulate the market? People who say this usually have no clue how trading actually works. Large stock holders are not going to panic and sell just because AI releases a story that Apple is having supply problems. Small AAPL investors are generally not reading any tech rumor blogs.
I think that the article is mostly correct. Wealthy investors want to take some money off the table to avoid the likely capital gains tax increase. Apple has the most gains so they also get the most loses since that is where the investors have the most profit but the entire market has been down lately not just Apple.
I think it's funny that your second paragraph answers the question in the first paragraph.
Perhaps you have a different understanding of the meaning of manipulating the market.
For every seller there is a buyer. How is that manipulation?
For every seller there is a buyer?
Maybe you and I have a different understanding of how the market works.
So you are saying the stock is being manipulated?
No I think the market is working like it always does. People speculate trying to make a profit. Sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes events outside of the industry itself trigger changes in planning but it is not manipulation. With today's computerized trading programs it very difficult to manipulate the market for more than a few milliseconds, and that is being done and should be looked into, but it does not cause month long selling trends. The market is being depressed and is quite volatile right now mostly due to the European debt crisis which might spread to the US. In my opinion the US debt crisis will then spill over to China and AAPL will probably fall some more.
The recent downward movement in AAPL is completely driven by external factors and has nothing to do with anything at Apple. There are no crisis of failure to execute by Apple and no signs of sales falling so it appears to be solely related the national debt and likely tax increase in my opinion.
But please share your understanding of how the stock is being manipulated. I am always interested to learn something new.
No I think the market is working like it always does. People speculate trying to make a profit. Sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes events outside of the industry itself trigger changes in planning but it is not manipulation. With today's computerized trading programs it very difficult to manipulate the market for more than a few milliseconds, and that is being done and should be looked into, but it does not cause month long selling trends. The market is being depressed and is quite volatile right now mostly due to the European debit crisis which might spread to the US. In my opinion the US debit crisis will then spill over to China and AAPL will probably fall some more.
But please share your understanding of how the stock is being manipulated. I am always interested to learn something new.
So you've never heard of negative and positive sentiment. That's the manipulation that I am talking about. Creating negative sentiment makes it much easier to dump large blocks of stock and have the stock fall. Negative sentiment and large blocks create a downward trend in the stock. Later the same people buy back the large blocks at a lower price; being that they are the manipulators in the first place they are also the people to make the stock rise. Simple... but you already know this.
Large investors/hedge funds aren't looking to fool each other... they just want to shake out the 30 or 40 million shares in small investors hands.
Apple's forward p/e is enough to tell me that the stock is being shorted (and naked shorted) by hedge funds. [on edit] or do you have another explanation for a downward movement in a stock where the company CEO has said that there will be a blowout quarter during the holidays with sales of its products that are so in demand that they can't keep up with production.
So you've never heard of negative and positive sentiment. That's the manipulation that I am talking about. Creating negative sentiment makes it much easier to dump large blocks of stock and have the stock fall. Negative sentiment and large blocks create a downward trend in the stock.
Please show me the negative sentiment. I must have missed that. Selling large blocks of stocks takes time because buyers of large blocks are not easily hoodwinked. The large block would have to be sold in small lots. But if as you say there is negative sentiment why would those small investors be buyers. The market is in balance for the moment. Stocks are bought and sold in a one to one ratio.
Please show me the negative sentiment. I must have missed that. Selling large blocks of stocks takes time because buyers of large blocks are not easily hoodwinked. The large block would have to be sold in small lots. But if as you say there is negative sentiment why would those small investors be buyers. The market is in balance for the moment. Stocks are bought and sold in a one to one ratio.
The stock price isn't enough for you? Wow... what does it take.
Production problems, market share dropping, Samsung won't settle, Moto/Apple going to arbitration, stock being sold, VPs leaving, iMac production being delayed.... this isn't just being reported on AI.
... and, what's really funny is that you want me to show you the negative sentiment... as if there isn't any. So the stock should be going up, right?
"But if as you say there is negative sentiment why would those small investors be buyers."
The stock price isn't enough for you? Wow... what does it take.
Production problems, market share dropping, Samsung won't settle, Moto/Apple going to arbitration, stock being sold, VPs leaving, iMac production being delayed.... this isn't just being reported on AI.
... and, what's really funny is that you want me to show you the negative sentiment... as if there isn't any. So the stock should be going up, right?
I don't see any intelligent investor worrying about those production delays or court cases seriously affecting Apple share price. People have a lot of profit in Apple and the only reason to sell is that you either want to avoid the likely increase in capital gains tax or you think the shares are over bought, latter being only part of the reason. Nothing to do with Apple per se it is just a combination of external factors. It is not a case of pump and dump. Analysts simply wanted the stock to keep going up but external forces are forcing it down. Short term traders are active in the options market but it is a mixture of buying and selling of mostly small blocks based primarily on strike price and expiration. The whole market is trending down and AAPL, being over bought and highly volatile, is showing more downside pressure than some other stocks.
I don't see any intelligent investor worrying about those production delays or court cases seriously affecting Apple share price. People have a lot of profit in Apple and the only reason to sell is that you either want to avoid the likely increase in capital gains tax or you think the shares are over bought, latter being only part of the reason. Nothing to do with Apple per se it is just a combination of external factors. It is not a case of pump and dump. Analysts simply wanted the stock to keep going up but external forces are forcing it down. Short term traders are active in the options market but it is a mixture of buying and selling of mostly small blocks based primarily on strike price and expiration. The whole market is trending down and AAPL, being over bought and highly volatile, is showing more downside pressure than some other stocks.
Please don't pay any attention to the AAPL share price displayed at the top of this page. It looks like a price from last month.
Personally I sold my AAPL a couple years ago so I'm just bystander. I have no dog in this race but I might get back in if I see a positive outcome to the fiscal cliff negotiations although I'm not very optimistic. I wish I had gotten in and out on MDBX Wednesday and Thursday.
This doesn't make sense. If Apple stock is so desirable, investors should sell to take the gain for lower capital gain this year and then buy back immediately to hold again. (This doesn't count as wash sell since wash sell only applies to lost.)
You are over simplifying complex issues. More importantly, you are to your own detriment treating politics as a sport. The reality is there are both good democrats and good republicans. In addition, the US would greatly benefit from more than a two party system being that complex issues shouldn't be confined to merely two perspectives that are trying to make the other look bad while gaining power.
You make a lot of good statements. I'd like to comment on your opening idea regarding three or more parties.
In the past, when a third party sprung up, it was usually made up of supporters and voters of one of the two main parties, which assured that party would lose elections until it was reabsorbed back into the main party. At the current time it is the Republican party that is most likely to split and spin off a fringe-right group of theocrats. Looking down the road a bit the Democrats could spin off an Espaniol party that would gain its power by aligning with (or threatening to) one party or other for leverage; although I don't really see that as likely. It takes a very charismatic person to pull off creating a new party.
It takes a very charismatic person to pull off creating a new party.
Warren Buffett, in a recent interview with CNBC, offers one of the best quotes about the debt ceiling:
"I could end the deficit in 5 minutes," he told CNBC. "You just pass a law that says that anytime there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election."
This doesn't make sense. If Apple stock is so desirable, investors should sell to take the gain for lower capital gain this year and then buy back immediately to hold again. (This doesn't count as wash sell since wash sell only applies to lost.)
If there was positive sentiment then would AAPL be this low.
I agree there is negative sentiment but it is about the economy in general, justifiably, and AAPL is being hit hard simply because that is where the most profit is.
It is not specific negative sentiment regarding Apple. I actually believe most people have a very high regard for Apple but they are not the majority of AAPL stock holders. These wild trading swings are technical not fundamental.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave
Clearly, the stock is being manipulated by hedge fund managers and other big boys to give them a buying opportunity. It should be illegal, but these guys are the top donors to both parties, so we all have to sit by and witness this theft.
Exactly how does one manipulate the market? People who say this usually have no clue how trading actually works. Large stock holders are not going to panic and sell just because AI releases a story that Apple is having supply problems. Small AAPL investors are generally not reading any tech rumor blogs.
I think that the article is mostly correct. Wealthy investors want to take some money off the table to avoid the likely capital gains tax increase. Apple has the most gains so they also get the most loses since that is where the investors have the most profit but the entire market has been down lately not just Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Exactly how does one manipulate the market? People who say this usually have no clue how trading actually works. Large stock holders are not going to panic and sell just because AI releases a story that Apple is having supply problems. Small AAPL investors are generally not reading any tech rumor blogs.
I think that the article is mostly correct. Wealthy investors want to take some money off the table to avoid the likely capital gains tax increase. Apple has the most gains so they also get the most loses since that is where the investors have the most profit but the entire market has been down lately not just Apple.
I think it's funny that your second paragraph answers the question in the first paragraph.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
I think it's funny that your second paragraph answers the question in the first paragraph.
Perhaps you have a different understanding of the meaning of manipulating the market.
For every seller there is a buyer. How is that manipulation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Perhaps you have a different understanding of the meaning of manipulating the market.
For every seller there is a buyer. How is that manipulation?
For every seller there is a buyer?
Maybe you and I have a different understanding of how the market works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Perhaps you have a different understanding of the meaning of manipulating the market.
For every seller there is a buyer. How is that manipulation?
For every seller there is a buyer?
Maybe you and I have a different understanding of how the market works.
So you are saying the stock is being manipulated?
No I think the market is working like it always does. People speculate trying to make a profit. Sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes events outside of the industry itself trigger changes in planning but it is not manipulation. With today's computerized trading programs it very difficult to manipulate the market for more than a few milliseconds, and that is being done and should be looked into, but it does not cause month long selling trends. The market is being depressed and is quite volatile right now mostly due to the European debt crisis which might spread to the US. In my opinion the US debt crisis will then spill over to China and AAPL will probably fall some more.
The recent downward movement in AAPL is completely driven by external factors and has nothing to do with anything at Apple. There are no crisis of failure to execute by Apple and no signs of sales falling so it appears to be solely related the national debt and likely tax increase in my opinion.
But please share your understanding of how the stock is being manipulated. I am always interested to learn something new.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
So you are saying the stock is being manipulated?
No I think the market is working like it always does. People speculate trying to make a profit. Sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes events outside of the industry itself trigger changes in planning but it is not manipulation. With today's computerized trading programs it very difficult to manipulate the market for more than a few milliseconds, and that is being done and should be looked into, but it does not cause month long selling trends. The market is being depressed and is quite volatile right now mostly due to the European debit crisis which might spread to the US. In my opinion the US debit crisis will then spill over to China and AAPL will probably fall some more.
But please share your understanding of how the stock is being manipulated. I am always interested to learn something new.
So you've never heard of negative and positive sentiment. That's the manipulation that I am talking about. Creating negative sentiment makes it much easier to dump large blocks of stock and have the stock fall. Negative sentiment and large blocks create a downward trend in the stock. Later the same people buy back the large blocks at a lower price; being that they are the manipulators in the first place they are also the people to make the stock rise. Simple... but you already know this.
Large investors/hedge funds aren't looking to fool each other... they just want to shake out the 30 or 40 million shares in small investors hands.
Apple's forward p/e is enough to tell me that the stock is being shorted (and naked shorted) by hedge funds. [on edit] or do you have another explanation for a downward movement in a stock where the company CEO has said that there will be a blowout quarter during the holidays with sales of its products that are so in demand that they can't keep up with production.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
So you've never heard of negative and positive sentiment. That's the manipulation that I am talking about. Creating negative sentiment makes it much easier to dump large blocks of stock and have the stock fall. Negative sentiment and large blocks create a downward trend in the stock.
Please show me the negative sentiment. I must have missed that. Selling large blocks of stocks takes time because buyers of large blocks are not easily hoodwinked. The large block would have to be sold in small lots. But if as you say there is negative sentiment why would those small investors be buyers. The market is in balance for the moment. Stocks are bought and sold in a one to one ratio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Please show me the negative sentiment. I must have missed that. Selling large blocks of stocks takes time because buyers of large blocks are not easily hoodwinked. The large block would have to be sold in small lots. But if as you say there is negative sentiment why would those small investors be buyers. The market is in balance for the moment. Stocks are bought and sold in a one to one ratio.
The stock price isn't enough for you? Wow... what does it take.
Production problems, market share dropping, Samsung won't settle, Moto/Apple going to arbitration, stock being sold, VPs leaving, iMac production being delayed.... this isn't just being reported on AI.
... and, what's really funny is that you want me to show you the negative sentiment... as if there isn't any. So the stock should be going up, right?
"But if as you say there is negative sentiment why would those small investors be buyers."
Hmmm... sounds like he's starting to get it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
The stock price isn't enough for you? Wow... what does it take.
Production problems, market share dropping, Samsung won't settle, Moto/Apple going to arbitration, stock being sold, VPs leaving, iMac production being delayed.... this isn't just being reported on AI.
... and, what's really funny is that you want me to show you the negative sentiment... as if there isn't any. So the stock should be going up, right?
I don't see any intelligent investor worrying about those production delays or court cases seriously affecting Apple share price. People have a lot of profit in Apple and the only reason to sell is that you either want to avoid the likely increase in capital gains tax or you think the shares are over bought, latter being only part of the reason. Nothing to do with Apple per se it is just a combination of external factors. It is not a case of pump and dump. Analysts simply wanted the stock to keep going up but external forces are forcing it down. Short term traders are active in the options market but it is a mixture of buying and selling of mostly small blocks based primarily on strike price and expiration. The whole market is trending down and AAPL, being over bought and highly volatile, is showing more downside pressure than some other stocks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I don't see any intelligent investor worrying about those production delays or court cases seriously affecting Apple share price. People have a lot of profit in Apple and the only reason to sell is that you either want to avoid the likely increase in capital gains tax or you think the shares are over bought, latter being only part of the reason. Nothing to do with Apple per se it is just a combination of external factors. It is not a case of pump and dump. Analysts simply wanted the stock to keep going up but external forces are forcing it down. Short term traders are active in the options market but it is a mixture of buying and selling of mostly small blocks based primarily on strike price and expiration. The whole market is trending down and AAPL, being over bought and highly volatile, is showing more downside pressure than some other stocks.
AAPL is over bought?
Intelligent investor?
Analysts want the stock to go up?
Sorry, I thought we were talking about Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
Analysts want the stock to go up?
Have you looked at their forecasts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Please show me the negative sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
The stock price isn't enough for you? Wow... what does it take.
I don't think you see the circularity in what you're saying.
Please don't pay any attention to the AAPL share price displayed at the top of this page. It looks like a price from last month.
Personally I sold my AAPL a couple years ago so I'm just bystander. I have no dog in this race but I might get back in if I see a positive outcome to the fiscal cliff negotiations although I'm not very optimistic. I wish I had gotten in and out on MDBX Wednesday and Thursday.
This doesn't make sense. If Apple stock is so desirable, investors should sell to take the gain for lower capital gain this year and then buy back immediately to hold again. (This doesn't count as wash sell since wash sell only applies to lost.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
You are over simplifying complex issues. More importantly, you are to your own detriment treating politics as a sport. The reality is there are both good democrats and good republicans. In addition, the US would greatly benefit from more than a two party system being that complex issues shouldn't be confined to merely two perspectives that are trying to make the other look bad while gaining power.
You make a lot of good statements. I'd like to comment on your opening idea regarding three or more parties.
In the past, when a third party sprung up, it was usually made up of supporters and voters of one of the two main parties, which assured that party would lose elections until it was reabsorbed back into the main party. At the current time it is the Republican party that is most likely to split and spin off a fringe-right group of theocrats. Looking down the road a bit the Democrats could spin off an Espaniol party that would gain its power by aligning with (or threatening to) one party or other for leverage; although I don't really see that as likely. It takes a very charismatic person to pull off creating a new party.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Have you looked at their forecasts?
I've seen as low as <$400 and I've seen as high as $1300.
... and those analysts were so positive about that last quarterly announcement...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky
It takes a very charismatic person to pull off creating a new party.
Warren Buffett, in a recent interview with CNBC, offers one of the best quotes about the debt ceiling:
"I could end the deficit in 5 minutes," he told CNBC. "You just pass a law that says that anytime there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election."
----------------
That would certainly clean things up in Congress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
I don't think you see the circularity in what you're saying.
I was using the stock price to show that there is negative sentiment and I backed it up with the current forward p/e.
If there was positive sentiment then would AAPL be this low.
What created the negative sentiment? Are all tech stocks being treated equally? Is AAPL being specifically punished?
Answer those questions and I'm sure any thinking person would be able to see that there is manipulation in Apple's stock.
It's actually a loss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
If there was positive sentiment then would AAPL be this low.
I agree there is negative sentiment but it is about the economy in general, justifiably, and AAPL is being hit hard simply because that is where the most profit is.
It is not specific negative sentiment regarding Apple. I actually believe most people have a very high regard for Apple but they are not the majority of AAPL stock holders. These wild trading swings are technical not fundamental.