Window 8's biggest competitor isn't OSX - it's Windows 7. Whilst Windows 7 doesn't have the polish of OSX, it's stable, fast and familiar. It's good enough and so people are going to be reluctant to upgrade to any future OS, let alone one as radically different as Windows 8. WIndows 7 is the next XP and it's going to be around for a long time.
Whoever decided to unify touch and mouse-driven UIs has made a big mistake in my opinion though. Windows 8 is a decent OS for PCs once you turn the Metro (sorry Modern) UI off and Windows 8 is pretty decent on tablets until you get past the Metro UI. I really hope that iOS and OSX don't merge in this way.
Whoever decided to unify touch and mouse-driven UIs has made a big mistake in my opinion though.
Whoever came up with that idea is probably the same people that came up with the idea of making a laptop/tablet hybrid that is worse at both things.
I remember when the iPad first came out, some not too forward thinking people were saying that you should be able to hook up a mouse to it. These people didn't get it back then, and today, there are still people who just simply don't get it. There is no hope for such people.
MS is done. The competition's already run away with the market. It's a slow bleed that began years ago. All that money. All that R&D, with barely anything to show for it. Meanwhile Apple with only a fraction of MS' resources, has bitch-slapped them up and down the market for years now.
MS desperately needed Windows 8 and Windows Phone to be huge hits. That's not happening. MS knows how to generate cachet and "cool" like I know how to speak Aramaic. Not happening. MICROSOFT DOES NOT UNDERSTAND INTERFACE DESIGN. This has been the case since Day 1. It took Apple to get the ball rolling for the rest of the industry when it came to UI. This is a key point. MS is all red-tape, administration and colossal inefficiency. An enterprise solutions provider masquerading as a consumer tech company.
Not to mention that that Surface thing doesn't even know whether it's coming or going.
Windows Phone = dud
Surface = dud
Windows 8 = dud
Sinofsky didn't leave because he was "hard to work with" or some nonsense like that. He was ALWAYS hard to work with, and yet he's been there forever. He was given the boot because someone at a higher level needed to take the fall for all this failure, because Ballmer sure as hell wasn't going to take any heat. Bet on that situation not lasting very long, though.
I disagree. Win 7 is pretty good. Maybe needs more polish all the way through, but its good and better than OS X in some ways. MS does get UI.
I just installed Win 8 on my MacBook Pro. I like the interface. I like the look. But it is tricky navigating around. They need to work on that, but otherwise, Win 8 is fine and is refreshing to look at instead of OS X from time to time.
Apple is very slow to adapt. Look at iOS. So slow. Google is running circles around Apple (and catching up/or exceeding in some areas). BTW, I prefer and love my iPhone 4S and can't wait for iPhone 5/6. I looked at Windows phone, but the hardware - nothing beats the iPhone now. And I hear the Windows phone is heavy partially due to coils for the inductive charging.
Window 8's biggest competitor isn't OSX - it's Windows 7. Whilst Windows 7 doesn't have the polish of OSX, it's stable, fast and familiar. It's good enough and so people are going to be reluctant to upgrade to any future OS, let alone one as radically different as Windows 8. WIndows 7 is the next XP and it's going to be around for a long time.
Whoever decided to unify touch and mouse-driven UIs has made a big mistake in my opinion though. Windows 8 is a decent OS for PCs once you turn the Metro (sorry Modern) UI off and Windows 8 is pretty decent on tablets until you get past the Metro UI. I really hope that iOS and OSX don't merge in this way.
agree.
I'm currently consulting at 2 organizations just starting their Win7 conversions. Over 40,000 desktops switching to Win7. Win8 is still early adopter hell for corporations. and of course, the only reason you would choose windows at home is because you're used to it at work or like what you have... neither of which is a reason to upgrade to Win8.
My guess is OSX will eventually support iOS apps, but the UI will be distinctly OSX/touchpad. and Mac apps will never evolve to iOS.
'Instead, the thinking in Redmond, Wash., is said to be that PC makers have offered "lackluster" designs, along with limited availability.'
That's right, instead of blaming your newly restyled OS, blame everyone else. Despite the hardware designs looking like their previous Win 7, & MacBook Air (inspired by Intel???) look-a-like counterparts.
Every time I see a PC running Win 8, I think it looks like it's a toy aimed at young kids, with all those primary coloured blocks.
Aren't all PC's of lackluster design? I suppose MS thinks the Surface is not lackluster. Need to only watch the sales numbers carefully (sales to customers not sales to distributors).
Apple is very slow to adapt. Look at iOS. So slow. Google is running circles around Apple (and catching up/or exceeding in some areas).
When Apple stops absolutely dominating consumer satisfaction for every single iOS device they have ever released, then we can talk.
That's where the rubber hits the road. Google's problem is the Android interface (they've barely got even the basics of touch down), fragmentation, lack of optimization from device to device, and a lower-quality ecosystem.
Google and their OEMs have become volume-pushers. Until Android is brought all under one roof (never), the Android user experience will never equal Apple's.
As for PCs, those who have $1000 to spend are looking at Macs. Apple's captured the top-tier of the market. Macs also dominate in consumer satisfaction year after year, often by a very wide margin.
I read Thurrott's piece about Windows RT vs. Surface and it confused the hell out of me. There are tons of video reviews online that further illustrate the clumsiness of using 8. Funny that it looks pretty good as I walk by the PCs at Costco, but people are having a hard time relearning old habits.
My son and I played around with the big box PCs and I was shocked at how flimsy and plasticky the hardware was. It looks cheap, yes. Wait till you start playing around with it. Type on it. Adjust the screen. Move the mouse. Ugh.
... Microsoft doesn't believe sales have been affected by the software itself. Instead, the thinking in Redmond, Wash., is said to be that PC makers have offered "lackluster" designs, along with limited availability....
This is a bit rich since Microsoft itself has been unable to release what was supposed to be the flagship device for Windows 8, (the Surface Pro), and isn't expected to do so until January/February next year.
The Surface RT (which doesn't technically even run Windows 8 but instead runs Windows 8 RT), has itself also been reviewed as "lacklustre."
The irony is so high it threatens to explode the universe.
It's a BIG transition for PC owners. I remember when Apple went to OS X from OS 9 in the early 2000s.
A LOT of people HATED OS X - because it meant buying ALL new software and OS X was REALLY buggy. I know - I was at HP using a Mac G3 Tower doing design work for HP.
And then came the jump of OS X from G3/G4/G5 Macs to Intel Macs.
So can't ring the death knell for Windows 8 quite yet.
From the looks of it, all the pre-black Friday sales of Win8 PCs are pretty much sold out - I'm watching the Best Buy ones right now.
This one will be a slow-upswing.
Well, MS has about 1 Billion licenses of the variants of Windows (XP, Vista, 7, and now 8). Obviously, Apple can't have 1 Billion computers made within 12 months, but Apple could easiy see 10% of the current Windows users migrating to OS X. OS X is practically bug free, and it only take a couple of minor bug fixes to address those problems. if Apple sees 10% of Windows users switch to OS X laptops/desktops, that could more than double the current number of OS X users. It doesn't implausible for that to happen over the next 12 months. Apple just refreshed the line up, so we'll see what happens. there was a recent survey done by a market research firm and 10% thought that OS X was better, 58% don't plan on migrating to windows 8. That's a lot of potential windows users planning on leaving the platform and there aren't other options other than OS X.
... I remember when the iPad first came out, some not too forward thinking people were saying that you should be able to hook up a mouse to it. These people didn't get it back then, and today, there are still people who just simply don't get it. There is no hope for such people.
I remember when we were switching from command line interfaces to GUIs, and one of the arguments for always needing a DOS prompt was that for some things, using a mouse and the window GUI was awkward and slow. The fact was though, there were even then, people who not only *could* do everything with the mouse and the GUI, they actually preferred it, and they could get things done just as fast. those people eventually grew to be more numerous than the CLI guys.
IMO history is repeating itself with touch interfaces. Everyone's trying to figure out how to use tablets by attaching keyboards and making special cases or in Microsoft's case, letting you use a mouse. All the manufacturers are basically pushing what amounts to a hybrid or convertible laptop, (even if the keyboard is separate and communicates by bluetooth). This is because the number of people who truly "get" the new form factor is still low (most are probably still kids right now) but as before, there are people who don't need or ever want an external keyboard or mouse and can get things done just as fast using only touch.
It seems likely to me that this group of "touch-only" users has a distinct advantage and will only grow in the future as more and more kids are brought up on this stuff.
Microsoft still hasn't seen this yet, or they just don't believe it if they have. All the hybrid "it's sorta a tablet but also a PC" stuff is just a temporary stopgap. the future is touch.
Apple has leaped over them and they still haven't really grokked what's happened.
Comments
Microsoft did not ease use, they gave more problems.
Whoever decided to unify touch and mouse-driven UIs has made a big mistake in my opinion though. Windows 8 is a decent OS for PCs once you turn the Metro (sorry Modern) UI off and Windows 8 is pretty decent on tablets until you get past the Metro UI. I really hope that iOS and OSX don't merge in this way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
Whoever decided to unify touch and mouse-driven UIs has made a big mistake in my opinion though.
Whoever came up with that idea is probably the same people that came up with the idea of making a laptop/tablet hybrid that is worse at both things.
I remember when the iPad first came out, some not too forward thinking people were saying that you should be able to hook up a mouse to it. These people didn't get it back then, and today, there are still people who just simply don't get it. There is no hope for such people.
Originally Posted by RichL
Whoever decided to unify touch and mouse-driven UIs has made a big mistake in my opinion though.
I find myself occasionally wishing that I could touch the screen in OS X. I still find myself more often thanking that a cursor remains.
I find myself never wishing that I had a mouse in iOS. And I'm always glad that I can touch.
I find myself perpetually wishing that I could touch the screen in Windows 8. But I'm forced to use a mouse.
The differences are interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacManFelix
Wouldn’t it be nice to read a piece that didn’t contain a reference to iOS 6 maps?
Here's how it works.
Biased report: "World comes to an end."
Unbiased report: "World comes to an end, possibly caused by iOS 6 Maps app failure."
Rinse, Repeat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
And the slide into irrelevance continues.
MS is done. The competition's already run away with the market. It's a slow bleed that began years ago. All that money. All that R&D, with barely anything to show for it. Meanwhile Apple with only a fraction of MS' resources, has bitch-slapped them up and down the market for years now.
MS desperately needed Windows 8 and Windows Phone to be huge hits. That's not happening. MS knows how to generate cachet and "cool" like I know how to speak Aramaic. Not happening. MICROSOFT DOES NOT UNDERSTAND INTERFACE DESIGN. This has been the case since Day 1. It took Apple to get the ball rolling for the rest of the industry when it came to UI. This is a key point. MS is all red-tape, administration and colossal inefficiency. An enterprise solutions provider masquerading as a consumer tech company.
Not to mention that that Surface thing doesn't even know whether it's coming or going.
Windows Phone = dud
Surface = dud
Windows 8 = dud
Sinofsky didn't leave because he was "hard to work with" or some nonsense like that. He was ALWAYS hard to work with, and yet he's been there forever. He was given the boot because someone at a higher level needed to take the fall for all this failure, because Ballmer sure as hell wasn't going to take any heat. Bet on that situation not lasting very long, though.
I disagree. Win 7 is pretty good. Maybe needs more polish all the way through, but its good and better than OS X in some ways. MS does get UI.
I just installed Win 8 on my MacBook Pro. I like the interface. I like the look. But it is tricky navigating around. They need to work on that, but otherwise, Win 8 is fine and is refreshing to look at instead of OS X from time to time.
Apple is very slow to adapt. Look at iOS. So slow. Google is running circles around Apple (and catching up/or exceeding in some areas). BTW, I prefer and love my iPhone 4S and can't wait for iPhone 5/6. I looked at Windows phone, but the hardware - nothing beats the iPhone now. And I hear the Windows phone is heavy partially due to coils for the inductive charging.
These are not dud products.
Personally, I think this is Thurott trying to get some advertising hits on his site. He becomes irrelevant when Windows becomes irrelevant.
I think he's realized that any anti-MS posting he makes drives his revenue up...;-)
That said, I would have predicted sales to be low, for one and only one reason... iPad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
Window 8's biggest competitor isn't OSX - it's Windows 7. Whilst Windows 7 doesn't have the polish of OSX, it's stable, fast and familiar. It's good enough and so people are going to be reluctant to upgrade to any future OS, let alone one as radically different as Windows 8. WIndows 7 is the next XP and it's going to be around for a long time.
Whoever decided to unify touch and mouse-driven UIs has made a big mistake in my opinion though. Windows 8 is a decent OS for PCs once you turn the Metro (sorry Modern) UI off and Windows 8 is pretty decent on tablets until you get past the Metro UI. I really hope that iOS and OSX don't merge in this way.
agree.
I'm currently consulting at 2 organizations just starting their Win7 conversions. Over 40,000 desktops switching to Win7. Win8 is still early adopter hell for corporations. and of course, the only reason you would choose windows at home is because you're used to it at work or like what you have... neither of which is a reason to upgrade to Win8.
My guess is OSX will eventually support iOS apps, but the UI will be distinctly OSX/touchpad. and Mac apps will never evolve to iOS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TogetherWeStand
'Instead, the thinking in Redmond, Wash., is said to be that PC makers have offered "lackluster" designs, along with limited availability.'
That's right, instead of blaming your newly restyled OS, blame everyone else. Despite the hardware designs looking like their previous Win 7, & MacBook Air (inspired by Intel???) look-a-like counterparts.
Every time I see a PC running Win 8, I think it looks like it's a toy aimed at young kids, with all those primary coloured blocks.
Aren't all PC's of lackluster design? I suppose MS thinks the Surface is not lackluster. Need to only watch the sales numbers carefully (sales to customers not sales to distributors).
Got MY copy!.....
/
/
/
/
See below...
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
Mmm, mmm, mmm...
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
see below...
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
just kidding! wanted to see people react to thinking I was insane...
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher
Apple is very slow to adapt. Look at iOS. So slow. Google is running circles around Apple (and catching up/or exceeding in some areas).
When Apple stops absolutely dominating consumer satisfaction for every single iOS device they have ever released, then we can talk.
That's where the rubber hits the road. Google's problem is the Android interface (they've barely got even the basics of touch down), fragmentation, lack of optimization from device to device, and a lower-quality ecosystem.
Google and their OEMs have become volume-pushers. Until Android is brought all under one roof (never), the Android user experience will never equal Apple's.
As for PCs, those who have $1000 to spend are looking at Macs. Apple's captured the top-tier of the market. Macs also dominate in consumer satisfaction year after year, often by a very wide margin.
I read Thurrott's piece about Windows RT vs. Surface and it confused the hell out of me. There are tons of video reviews online that further illustrate the clumsiness of using 8. Funny that it looks pretty good as I walk by the PCs at Costco, but people are having a hard time relearning old habits.
My son and I played around with the big box PCs and I was shocked at how flimsy and plasticky the hardware was. It looks cheap, yes. Wait till you start playing around with it. Type on it. Adjust the screen. Move the mouse. Ugh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
... Microsoft doesn't believe sales have been affected by the software itself. Instead, the thinking in Redmond, Wash., is said to be that PC makers have offered "lackluster" designs, along with limited availability....
This is a bit rich since Microsoft itself has been unable to release what was supposed to be the flagship device for Windows 8, (the Surface Pro), and isn't expected to do so until January/February next year.
The Surface RT (which doesn't technically even run Windows 8 but instead runs Windows 8 RT), has itself also been reviewed as "lacklustre."
The irony is so high it threatens to explode the universe.
Well, MS has about 1 Billion licenses of the variants of Windows (XP, Vista, 7, and now 8). Obviously, Apple can't have 1 Billion computers made within 12 months, but Apple could easiy see 10% of the current Windows users migrating to OS X. OS X is practically bug free, and it only take a couple of minor bug fixes to address those problems. if Apple sees 10% of Windows users switch to OS X laptops/desktops, that could more than double the current number of OS X users. It doesn't implausible for that to happen over the next 12 months. Apple just refreshed the line up, so we'll see what happens. there was a recent survey done by a market research firm and 10% thought that OS X was better, 58% don't plan on migrating to windows 8. That's a lot of potential windows users planning on leaving the platform and there aren't other options other than OS X.
Initial projections called for the sale of 11 copies, but the only sold 9 copies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
... I remember when the iPad first came out, some not too forward thinking people were saying that you should be able to hook up a mouse to it. These people didn't get it back then, and today, there are still people who just simply don't get it. There is no hope for such people.
I remember when we were switching from command line interfaces to GUIs, and one of the arguments for always needing a DOS prompt was that for some things, using a mouse and the window GUI was awkward and slow. The fact was though, there were even then, people who not only *could* do everything with the mouse and the GUI, they actually preferred it, and they could get things done just as fast. those people eventually grew to be more numerous than the CLI guys.
IMO history is repeating itself with touch interfaces. Everyone's trying to figure out how to use tablets by attaching keyboards and making special cases or in Microsoft's case, letting you use a mouse. All the manufacturers are basically pushing what amounts to a hybrid or convertible laptop, (even if the keyboard is separate and communicates by bluetooth). This is because the number of people who truly "get" the new form factor is still low (most are probably still kids right now) but as before, there are people who don't need or ever want an external keyboard or mouse and can get things done just as fast using only touch.
It seems likely to me that this group of "touch-only" users has a distinct advantage and will only grow in the future as more and more kids are brought up on this stuff.
Microsoft still hasn't seen this yet, or they just don't believe it if they have. All the hybrid "it's sorta a tablet but also a PC" stuff is just a temporary stopgap. the future is touch.
Apple has leaped over them and they still haven't really grokked what's happened.
Going. Definitely going...