That's true but MS has no one to blame but itself for positioning the Win OEMs to race to the bottom for scraps.
That is not completely true.
I think it is OEMs state of mind that drove them to "race to the bottom for scraps". As in, we'll make cheaper and sell more.
Big winners in PC segment are companies that are emerging from that mindstate and are trying to crack premium segment and premium margins.
Asus has 43% profit increase over the same period last year, and has grown their market share as well. But look at their laptops and tablets - ZenBooks, Gaming notebooks, Transformer tablets: sweet design, premium materials, good quality IPS screens.
Lenovo is the other market and profit growing PC vendor, and again one known for their not-so-cheap units (ThinkPads T, X, W) rather than cheap consumer products.
Quality sells, most of the times.
I cannot speak for the others, but I don't think my judgement is uncommon in scenario like this: I like HP to some degree, as we have good go with them at work - we are pretty much exclusively pushing EliteBooks and 8300 Elite desktops on our customers nowadays, and our experience is good - number of faults is really low. So I was looking at HP Envy Spectre XT for my light-and-portable laptop. Beautiful machine on paper (and on screen), but when I finally had a chance to try one in real, I was immediately turned away with awful, cheap, 1366*768 TN panel with, like, 10 degrees of vertical viewing. I don't even mind resolution - I'm wearing glasses, and I don't plan to use this lappy for anything more complex than dumping images from my cameras when travelling, beside usual stuff (browsing, emailing, FBing etc). But... I don't want to sit in front of screen like a statue, or move screen every couple of minutes to get into sweet spot. That was acceptable compromise 5+ years ago, but today, my phone, tablet and desktop have IPS screens with decent horizontal AND vertical viewing angles - why should I accept anything less from laptop?
And what sort of muppet in HP made decision to put THAT screen in THAT laptop? And why? And why isn't there an option to pay more for decent screen on Spectre XT?
That is not Microsoft decision, that is incompetent management, on multiple levels. That is also the reason MS is entering hardware market.
As a result, my money will go to Samsung Series 9 or Asus ZenBook. It is really that simple. And I will be really surprised if this time next year, I don't see Asus, Samsung, Lenovo... growing their PC market shares and profits even more, with Dell, HP and likes shrinking.
I went right out and bought a couple copies of Win 7 OEM just to have around for any new office PCs we might need in the future. I certainly don't want to be stuck having to deal with Win 8 from the looks of it.
I bet you have a refrigerator full of Hostess Twinkies too.
Windows legacy compatibility is a critical infrastructure component for our accounting department so I am just buying insurance that I have a couple extra licenses to hold me over in the event that Microsoft screws the pooch on this OS launch. Hostess Twinkies on the other hand are more obnoxious than any version of Windows by a huge margin. They are just disgusting. I can honestly say I have never eaten any Hostess product including Wonder bread. I'm a natural foods guy all the way.
Apple's penalty for losing the PC war in the 1990s is that they're now the most profitable PC maker in the world. Mac sales growth has outpaced the industry for well around 30 consecutive quarters, and counting. Apple owns the $1000+ category. "We don't ship junk" indeed.
Closed licensing of OS X was the right decision - no question, both for ensuring a superior user experience and for keeping OS X out of the hands of cheap box-assemblers. Both are related, of course.
End-to-end control of the experience. At the core of this is an OS that isn't licensed out. The OS is the single most important part of the computing experience. There’s no other PC maker that controls the most important aspect of its computers. This is why Macs are so coveted. This is why they sell like crazy even in a recession. And this is why Macs (and consequently, OS X) have dominated consumer satisfaction for years. Macs running OS X set the gold standard for the industry.
And we're not even talking iOS devices here.
You keep repeating that... however, repeating does not make it necessarily true.
And why not talking about iOS? - apparently user satisfaction in iOS 6 is a bit lower than iOS5. Windows Phone user satisfaction also tends to beat iOS frequently, but I agree it is too early to consider that before (if at all) WP8 gains some tangible market share.
Every company will eventually make a mistake. Is Windows 8 MSs mistake? Personally I don't think so as I am using it for almost 3 months now without any regrets, but time will tell. Likewise, is focusing on faster hardware while keeping core OS functionality almost unchanged since 2007, trying to substitute UI innovation with some already tried and tired "more pixels, more GHz" philosophy that didn't work too well for number of PC OEMs also a mistake?
I went right out and bought a couple copies of Win 7 OEM just to have around for any new office PCs we might need in the future. I certainly don't want to be stuck having to deal with Win 8 from the looks of it.
If the machines have Windows 8 Pro, then they include downgrade rights, so all you really needed is one copy for installation media.
This is a bit rich since Microsoft itself has been unable to release what was supposed to be the flagship device for Windows 8, (the Surface Pro), and isn't expected to do so until January/February next year.
The Surface RT (which doesn't technically even run Windows 8 but instead runs Windows 8 RT), has itself also been reviewed as "lacklustre."
The irony is so high it threatens to explode the universe.
Yeah how pathetic that MS is throwing their OEM's under the bus while at the same time getting in the hardware business to compete with them.
Good to know for the future. I always build my own machines from bare iron so I am used to having the install media that I intend on using.
You use pre-made iron? I hope you at least mine the ore yourself like all true PC builders. I make my own by sourcing the electrons, neutrons and protons¡
I remember when we were switching from command line interfaces to GUIs, and one of the arguments for always needing a DOS prompt was that for some things, using a mouse and the window GUI was awkward and slow. The fact was though, there were even then, people who not only *could* do everything with the mouse and the GUI, they actually preferred it, and they could get things done just as fast. those people eventually grew to be more numerous than the CLI guys.
IMO history is repeating itself with touch interfaces. Everyone's trying to figure out how to use tablets by attaching keyboards and making special cases or in Microsoft's case, letting you use a mouse. All the manufacturers are basically pushing what amounts to a hybrid or convertible laptop, (even if the keyboard is separate and communicates by bluetooth). This is because the number of people who truly "get" the new form factor is still low (most are probably still kids right now) but as before, there are people who don't need or ever want an external keyboard or mouse and can get things done just as fast using only touch.
It seems likely to me that this group of "touch-only" users has a distinct advantage and will only grow in the future as more and more kids are brought up on this stuff.
Microsoft still hasn't seen this yet, or they just don't believe it if they have. All the hybrid "it's sorta a tablet but also a PC" stuff is just a temporary stopgap. the future is touch.
Apple has leaped over them and they still haven't really grokked what's happened.
I'm sure Windows 9 will fix everything. I'm sure Windows 10 will fix everything. I'm sure Windows 11 will fix everything. I'm sure Windows 12 will fix everything. I'm sure Windows 13 will fix everything. I'm sure Windows 14 will fix everything. ... I'm sure Windows 32005122694083245123 will fix everything.
With Metro (or whatever confused label MS is using for it now), and this whole jumbled, confused and misguided Windows 8 paradigm, MS has shown very clearly and beyond any doubt, that the future of personal computing belongs to their leaner, meaner, and definitely faster competitors, like Apple. MS has handed it to them on a silver platter.
It's not because they don't have any talent. It isn't because they don't have resources. It isn't because they don't have any contact with the outside world.
It's because a CLOWN has been running the circus there for over 10 years.
Quick! Cue the calliope and send in Monkey Boy...!!!
Good to know for the future. I always build my own machines from bare iron so I am used to having the install media that I intend on using.
You use pre-made iron? I hope you at least mine the ore yourself like all true PC builders. I make my own by sourcing the electrons, neutrons and protons¡
Did you get permission from the creator to access atomic elements? You are likely going to be sued by God for using elements from the periodic table without a license?
I think Microsoft's biggest mistake, with Windows 8, was forcing the touch/tile interface on PC users. It's necessary for tablets, but the dual screen confuses most PC users. I predict 1) Windows 7 will be around for a LONG time and b) Microsoft will allow PC users to disable Metro in a future Windows 8 update. It's really New Coke vs. Coke Classic all over again...
You can only multitask 2 apps in Metro, which means if you're a business forget it. Metro is not intuitive. Sit someone down in front of a Windows 8 PC, boot it up and see how long it takes them to figure out how to get to the login screen.
You can only multitask 2 apps in Metro, which means if you're a business forget it. Metro is not intuitive. Sit someone down in front of a Windows 8 PC, boot it up and see how long it takes them to figure out how to get to the login screen.
LOL. For me, it was something like 20 minutes. And I've been using goddamned Windows since the late 80s.
Speaking from a person who did a clean install of Windows 8...
I have been using it for a couple of weeks and overall, I like it. It is faster and I like the GUI changes as well as things such as native ISO support in the OS.
Having said that, my Start screen has ZERO Metro apps. Instead the Start screen is populated with a desktop icon plus icons for HDDs, folders, desktop programs, etc.
So, in the end, I am 95% ignoring the Start Screen except when I need to use it as the equivalent of the Windows 7 Start menu.
You can only multitask 2 apps in Metro, which means if you're a business forget it. Metro is not intuitive. Sit someone down in front of a Windows 8 PC, boot it up and see how long it takes them to figure out how to get to the login screen.
Totally incorrect. You can have multiple Metro apps open at one time. Where do you get this info from?.
You use pre-made iron? I hope you at least mine the ore yourself like all true PC builders. I make my own by sourcing the electrons, neutrons and protons¡
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
I guess you don't have young children, the Pear is already taken by iCarly. Lol
http://icarly.wikia.com/wiki/Pear_Company
I thought the same exact thing lol
That is not completely true.
I think it is OEMs state of mind that drove them to "race to the bottom for scraps". As in, we'll make cheaper and sell more.
Big winners in PC segment are companies that are emerging from that mindstate and are trying to crack premium segment and premium margins.
Asus has 43% profit increase over the same period last year, and has grown their market share as well. But look at their laptops and tablets - ZenBooks, Gaming notebooks, Transformer tablets: sweet design, premium materials, good quality IPS screens.
Lenovo is the other market and profit growing PC vendor, and again one known for their not-so-cheap units (ThinkPads T, X, W) rather than cheap consumer products.
Quality sells, most of the times.
I cannot speak for the others, but I don't think my judgement is uncommon in scenario like this: I like HP to some degree, as we have good go with them at work - we are pretty much exclusively pushing EliteBooks and 8300 Elite desktops on our customers nowadays, and our experience is good - number of faults is really low. So I was looking at HP Envy Spectre XT for my light-and-portable laptop. Beautiful machine on paper (and on screen), but when I finally had a chance to try one in real, I was immediately turned away with awful, cheap, 1366*768 TN panel with, like, 10 degrees of vertical viewing. I don't even mind resolution - I'm wearing glasses, and I don't plan to use this lappy for anything more complex than dumping images from my cameras when travelling, beside usual stuff (browsing, emailing, FBing etc). But... I don't want to sit in front of screen like a statue, or move screen every couple of minutes to get into sweet spot. That was acceptable compromise 5+ years ago, but today, my phone, tablet and desktop have IPS screens with decent horizontal AND vertical viewing angles - why should I accept anything less from laptop?
And what sort of muppet in HP made decision to put THAT screen in THAT laptop? And why? And why isn't there an option to pay more for decent screen on Spectre XT?
That is not Microsoft decision, that is incompetent management, on multiple levels. That is also the reason MS is entering hardware market.
As a result, my money will go to Samsung Series 9 or Asus ZenBook. It is really that simple. And I will be really surprised if this time next year, I don't see Asus, Samsung, Lenovo... growing their PC market shares and profits even more, with Dell, HP and likes shrinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I went right out and bought a couple copies of Win 7 OEM just to have around for any new office PCs we might need in the future. I certainly don't want to be stuck having to deal with Win 8 from the looks of it.
I bet you have a refrigerator full of Hostess Twinkies too.
Windows legacy compatibility is a critical infrastructure component for our accounting department so I am just buying insurance that I have a couple extra licenses to hold me over in the event that Microsoft screws the pooch on this OS launch. Hostess Twinkies on the other hand are more obnoxious than any version of Windows by a huge margin. They are just disgusting. I can honestly say I have never eaten any Hostess product including Wonder bread. I'm a natural foods guy all the way.
You keep repeating that... however, repeating does not make it necessarily true.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-7-Bests-Mac-OS-X-Snow-Leopard-in-Satisfaction-Measuring-Contest-134018.shtml
And why not talking about iOS? - apparently user satisfaction in iOS 6 is a bit lower than iOS5. Windows Phone user satisfaction also tends to beat iOS frequently, but I agree it is too early to consider that before (if at all) WP8 gains some tangible market share.
Every company will eventually make a mistake. Is Windows 8 MSs mistake? Personally I don't think so as I am using it for almost 3 months now without any regrets, but time will tell. Likewise, is focusing on faster hardware while keeping core OS functionality almost unchanged since 2007, trying to substitute UI innovation with some already tried and tired "more pixels, more GHz" philosophy that didn't work too well for number of PC OEMs also a mistake?
We'll see.
Still, the design is a proven seller. It just has the Windows 8 cooties.
If the machines have Windows 8 Pro, then they include downgrade rights, so all you really needed is one copy for installation media.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
If the machines have Windows 8 Pro, then they include downgrade rights, so all you really needed is one copy for installation media.
Good to know for the future. I always build my own machines from bare iron so I am used to having the install media that I intend on using.
You use pre-made iron? I hope you at least mine the ore yourself like all true PC builders. I make my own by sourcing the electrons, neutrons and protons¡
I am in 100% agreement with you.
I'm sure Windows 10 will fix everything.
I'm sure Windows 11 will fix everything.
I'm sure Windows 12 will fix everything.
I'm sure Windows 13 will fix everything.
I'm sure Windows 14 will fix everything.
...
I'm sure Windows 32005122694083245123 will fix everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
With Metro (or whatever confused label MS is using for it now), and this whole jumbled, confused and misguided Windows 8 paradigm, MS has shown very clearly and beyond any doubt, that the future of personal computing belongs to their leaner, meaner, and definitely faster competitors, like Apple. MS has handed it to them on a silver platter.
It's not because they don't have any talent. It isn't because they don't have resources. It isn't because they don't have any contact with the outside world.
It's because a CLOWN has been running the circus there for over 10 years.
Quick! Cue the calliope and send in Monkey Boy...!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Good to know for the future. I always build my own machines from bare iron so I am used to having the install media that I intend on using.
You use pre-made iron? I hope you at least mine the ore yourself like all true PC builders. I make my own by sourcing the electrons, neutrons and protons¡
Did you get permission from the creator to access atomic elements? You are likely going to be sued by God for using elements from the periodic table without a license?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I hope you at least mine the ore yourself like all true PC builders. I make my own by sourcing the electrons, neutrons and protons¡
What? You call yourself a 'builder' and can't even build your own atoms?!
Lame....
Why? I'm an Apple convert due to my long history wih Microsoft's OS offerings, and I'm poor. Very poor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1
You can only multitask 2 apps in Metro, which means if you're a business forget it. Metro is not intuitive. Sit someone down in front of a Windows 8 PC, boot it up and see how long it takes them to figure out how to get to the login screen.
LOL. For me, it was something like 20 minutes. And I've been using goddamned Windows since the late 80s.
I have been using it for a couple of weeks and overall, I like it. It is faster and I like the GUI changes as well as things such as native ISO support in the OS.
Having said that, my Start screen has ZERO Metro apps. Instead the Start screen is populated with a desktop icon plus icons for HDDs, folders, desktop programs, etc.
So, in the end, I am 95% ignoring the Start Screen except when I need to use it as the equivalent of the Windows 7 Start menu.
Take that for what it is worth...
Totally incorrect. You can have multiple Metro apps open at one time. Where do you get this info from?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
You use pre-made iron? I hope you at least mine the ore yourself like all true PC builders. I make my own by sourcing the electrons, neutrons and protons¡
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }What, not from quarks, like real men?
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }