Last spring I bought a Mac Pro with 3 1GB DIMMs, and promptly upgraded it to 3 8GB DIMMs. It was a "substantial transformation"!
Sorry, for me to believe Apple is doing major assembly in the US will take more than a product sticker. Let's see some photos of the assembly operation before jumping to conclusions.
Last spring I bought a Mac Pro with 3 1GB DIMMs, and promptly upgraded it to 3 8GB DIMMs. It was a "substantial transformation"!
Sorry, for me to believe Apple is doing major assembly in the US will take more than a product sticker. Let's see some photos of the assembly operation before jumping to conclusions.
If Apple makes half of their products in the US or even 1/4, it is a start and will help get things moving in this stagnant economy.
I would even be willing to pay $100 - $200 extra to Apple to have a computer that is built in the USA -- I take pride in having an American made Mac, that's the way it was years ago when the company was formed...Apple was by America, for America, and made in America by Americans - not a Chinese labor assembly-line.
I give praise to Apple for these changes and hope Apple keeps making in-roads to getting back to what is fundamentally GOOD for the company, not being an outsourcing money monster. I am not kidding about paying the extra price for an American made product, I think Apple products are top-quality hardware, but also think an element is taken away by knowing Chinese laborers in a worker camp/factory were paid $2/day to slave over like robots building it. I don't take pride in that.
Tallest Skil, Did you read about the numerous suicides at the Foxconn Plants because of the worker conditions? There are a number that don't like what they do, they only do it because it is the only way they can earn money to bring back to their families when they leave and take the train ride home twice a year. They are bunked there in dormitories at the facilities. They don't live in their homes with their families (like American workers do).
THAT is as slave-labor as you can get. They can't leave the faclities -- the workers are practically quarantined at the facilities during the duration of their work contract, and allowed to return home only twice a year. Most of them work in various distant parts of China and travel sometimes 1000 miles or more to work at Foxconn. They are paid extremely low wages and sometimes forced to work more than 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.
THAT is as close to slave labor as I can understand, apart from being in a mililary labor camp.
It's not good --- and it really sickens me to believe Apple has stooped to this level simply to reduce their own costs so they can maximize profits. Money and profit has become the sole bottom line for Apple these days, and outsourcing has become their golden solution to do this. From their eyes, the consumer could care less as long as the product is good, right? But it does matter -- it's a fundamental issue and many people can't understand this...it's hard to explain what it means to take pride in a company, and that is something I have been lacking with Apple for a number of years now. I would love to have pride in Apple again, and the Chinese manufacturing shift was a major part of what made me start to see the greedy, dark side of where's Apple was heading.
2. Enjoy the work they do, want more than they're legally allowed to have
3. Every company in the industry does this. Can't take away an element that doesn't exist anywhere.
Enjoy the work they do? Didn't know you spoke for the hundreds of thousands of Chinese workers there. Are you in good with Brazilians too? How do they like it? Tell me more!
You've apparently never seen the inside of a modern Chinese factory. The quality control is very good.
And given that American work practices create a lot more stops and starts than Chinese work practices, it's conceivable that the quality control would even drop after bringing production to the US.
So what's your evidence that the US has better quality control?
I think QC depends on the product. For electronics, the Chinese do a very good job as do Americans. I wouldn't really put one over the other. As for your idea that QC might be superior in China it should be noted that many of their processes have American origins (TQM, Six Sigma, etc.)
Enjoy the work they do? Didn't know you spoke for the hundreds of thousands of Chinese workers there. Are you in good with Brazilians too? How do they like it? Tell me more!
Reading their testimonies would show a lot more than the mocking does.
Reading their testimonies would show a lot more than the mocking does.
Testimonies from repressed workers living in a society lacking basic freedoms like freedom of the press? Sorry, but those testimonies don't pass the smell test.
"The beatings will continue until morale improves!"
Testimonies from repressed workers living in a society lacking basic freedoms like freedom of the press? Sorry, but those testimonies don't pass the smell test.
Tallest Skil, Did you read about the numerous suicides at the Foxconn Plants because of the worker conditions? There are a number that don't like what they do, they only do it because it is the only way they can earn money to bring back to their families when they leave and take the train ride home twice a year. They are bunked there in dormitories at the facilities. They don't live in their homes with their families (like American workers do).
THAT is as slave-labor as you can get. They can't leave the faclities -- the workers are practically quarantined at the facilities during the duration of their work contract, and allowed to return home only twice a year. Most of them work in various distant parts of China and travel sometimes 1000 miles or more to work at Foxconn. They are paid extremely low wages and sometimes forced to work more than 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.
THAT is as close to slave labor as I can understand, apart from being in a mililary labor camp.
It's not good --- and it really sickens me to believe Apple has stooped to this level simply to reduce their own costs so they can maximize profits. Money and profit has become the sole bottom line for Apple these days, and outsourcing has become their golden solution to do this. From their eyes, the consumer could care less as long as the product is good, right? But it does matter -- it's a fundamental issue and many people can't understand this...it's hard to explain what it means to take pride in a company, and that is something I have been lacking with Apple for a number of years now. I would love to have pride in Apple again, and the Chinese manufacturing shift was a major part of what made me start to see the greedy, dark side of where's Apple was heading.
Looks like you've seen the Foxxcon story by Mikey Daisey, which turned out to be way overblown. Check the retraction
My reasons for the betterment of Apple by a shift to USA production are real and based on facts about the conditions in China, not Daisey's overblown factoids he added to HIS story.
Chinese working conditions are different and more strenuous, more demanding, and take place in in a closeted, controlled working environment (worker camps)....something a USA worker factory would not have or allow. Aside from the large wage differences, it is this overbearing de-humanization of the individual that really impacts my own thoughts and feelings about the situation, and makes me upset at Apple for allowing these kinds of Chinese labor factories to even be called on to assemble their products, in the name of ultra-cheap labor and maximizing their profits.
That's what gets me about the whole thing.
If the Chinese workers were allowed to live in their own housing, make decent salaries to support their own living, and be given NORMAL shift lengths of 8-10 hours and not worked for extensive week to month periods on lengthy shifts...and overall be given the freedoms and amenities that US workers have...
THEN I probably wouldn't have AS much of an issue with the Chinese worker situation.
But, this...this kind of downplayed game-shift by Apple in the 2000s to Chinese factory labor...it's as close to modern day slave labor as I can understand.
Chinese working conditions are different and more strenuous, more demanding, and take place in in a closeted, controlled working environment (worker camps)....something a USA worker factory would not have or allow.
China ? USA. Communism ? republic.
Aside from the large wage differences…
China ? USA. Communism ? republic.
…overbearing de-humanization…
… They want to work longer to make more money.
…upset at Apple for allowing…
Upset at the only company in the industry that actively improves said conditions instead of responding to forced improvements…
…make decent salaries to support their own living…
China ? USA. Communism ? republic.
…NORMAL shift lengths…
CHINA ? USA. COMMUNISM ? REPUBLIC.
…overall be given the freedoms and amenities that US workers have…
CHINA ? USA. COMMUNISM ? REPUBLIC.
THEN I probably wouldn't have AS much of an issue with the Chinese worker situation.
So petition to annex China. I'm all for US expansion myself. Honestly, I am. Not China, though, but different strokes.
Or boycott Apple. Enjoy buying those American-made computers. All none of them.
...it's as close to modern day slave labor as I can understand.
See, modern-day slave labor is called slave labor. You… don't get paid, you work where, when, and how you're told, and you die if you don't. Understand?
Any bets on WHERE they'll be made. I just can't imagine it being the PRK with their oppressive taxation which would have to be absorbed by Apple or passed on to us.
Comments
Originally Posted by AlexN
Fantastic. So now we are going to get a wave of US-based pest-callers. Sneaky
Hope they put on their best Marathi accent.
Last spring I bought a Mac Pro with 3 1GB DIMMs, and promptly upgraded it to 3 8GB DIMMs. It was a "substantial transformation"!
Sorry, for me to believe Apple is doing major assembly in the US will take more than a product sticker. Let's see some photos of the assembly operation before jumping to conclusions.
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg
Sorry, for me to believe Apple is doing major assembly in the US will take more than a product sticker.
Yeah, they're sure lying about that¡
Seriously?!
Also not a sticker. Engraved on the machine.
…before jumping to conclusions.
IT'S CARVED INTO THE MACHINE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
I'm an American and I could care less where my electronics or other gadgets are assembled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGJ
You COULD care less, could you?
Yes, he does care where his electronics are assembled...
If Apple makes half of their products in the US or even 1/4, it is a start and will help get things moving in this stagnant economy.
I give praise to Apple for these changes and hope Apple keeps making in-roads to getting back to what is fundamentally GOOD for the company, not being an outsourcing money monster. I am not kidding about paying the extra price for an American made product, I think Apple products are top-quality hardware, but also think an element is taken away by knowing Chinese laborers in a worker camp/factory were paid $2/day to slave over like robots building it. I don't take pride in that.
American made - keep it coming, Apple!!
Originally Posted by WardC
…fundamentally GOOD for the company, not being an outsourcing…
You act as though these are different.
…also think an element is taken away by knowing Chinese laborers in a worker camp/factory were paid $2/day to slave over like robots building it.
1. Not slaves
2. Enjoy the work they do, want more than they're legally allowed to have
3. Every company in the industry does this. Can't take away an element that doesn't exist anywhere.
Tallest Skil, Did you read about the numerous suicides at the Foxconn Plants because of the worker conditions? There are a number that don't like what they do, they only do it because it is the only way they can earn money to bring back to their families when they leave and take the train ride home twice a year. They are bunked there in dormitories at the facilities. They don't live in their homes with their families (like American workers do).
THAT is as slave-labor as you can get. They can't leave the faclities -- the workers are practically quarantined at the facilities during the duration of their work contract, and allowed to return home only twice a year. Most of them work in various distant parts of China and travel sometimes 1000 miles or more to work at Foxconn. They are paid extremely low wages and sometimes forced to work more than 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.
THAT is as close to slave labor as I can understand, apart from being in a mililary labor camp.
It's not good --- and it really sickens me to believe Apple has stooped to this level simply to reduce their own costs so they can maximize profits. Money and profit has become the sole bottom line for Apple these days, and outsourcing has become their golden solution to do this. From their eyes, the consumer could care less as long as the product is good, right? But it does matter -- it's a fundamental issue and many people can't understand this...it's hard to explain what it means to take pride in a company, and that is something I have been lacking with Apple for a number of years now. I would love to have pride in Apple again, and the Chinese manufacturing shift was a major part of what made me start to see the greedy, dark side of where's Apple was heading.
Originally Posted by WardC
post
Wow. Wow.
Everything in here is a lie.
Oh, wait, no, they ARE Chinese and they are working at Foxconn. Everything else is a lie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
You act as though these are different.
1. Not slaves
2. Enjoy the work they do, want more than they're legally allowed to have
3. Every company in the industry does this. Can't take away an element that doesn't exist anywhere.
Enjoy the work they do? Didn't know you spoke for the hundreds of thousands of Chinese workers there. Are you in good with Brazilians too? How do they like it? Tell me more!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Fallacy.
You've apparently never seen the inside of a modern Chinese factory. The quality control is very good.
And given that American work practices create a lot more stops and starts than Chinese work practices, it's conceivable that the quality control would even drop after bringing production to the US.
So what's your evidence that the US has better quality control?
I think QC depends on the product. For electronics, the Chinese do a very good job as do Americans. I wouldn't really put one over the other. As for your idea that QC might be superior in China it should be noted that many of their processes have American origins (TQM, Six Sigma, etc.)
Originally Posted by oneaburns
Enjoy the work they do? Didn't know you spoke for the hundreds of thousands of Chinese workers there. Are you in good with Brazilians too? How do they like it? Tell me more!
Reading their testimonies would show a lot more than the mocking does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Reading their testimonies would show a lot more than the mocking does.
Testimonies from repressed workers living in a society lacking basic freedoms like freedom of the press? Sorry, but those testimonies don't pass the smell test.
"The beatings will continue until morale improves!"
Originally Posted by oneaburns
Testimonies from repressed workers living in a society lacking basic freedoms like freedom of the press? Sorry, but those testimonies don't pass the smell test.
Believe what you choose.
Looks like you've seen the Foxxcon story by Mikey Daisey, which turned out to be way overblown. Check the retraction
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie
Looks like you've seen the Foxxcon story by Mikey Daisey, which turned out to be way overblown.
"…outright lies, made for the sole purpose of slandering Apple and arresting their success."
I think that fits better.
My reasons for the betterment of Apple by a shift to USA production are real and based on facts about the conditions in China, not Daisey's overblown factoids he added to HIS story.
Chinese working conditions are different and more strenuous, more demanding, and take place in in a closeted, controlled working environment (worker camps)....something a USA worker factory would not have or allow. Aside from the large wage differences, it is this overbearing de-humanization of the individual that really impacts my own thoughts and feelings about the situation, and makes me upset at Apple for allowing these kinds of Chinese labor factories to even be called on to assemble their products, in the name of ultra-cheap labor and maximizing their profits.
That's what gets me about the whole thing.
If the Chinese workers were allowed to live in their own housing, make decent salaries to support their own living, and be given NORMAL shift lengths of 8-10 hours and not worked for extensive week to month periods on lengthy shifts...and overall be given the freedoms and amenities that US workers have...
THEN I probably wouldn't have AS much of an issue with the Chinese worker situation.
But, this...this kind of downplayed game-shift by Apple in the 2000s to Chinese factory labor...it's as close to modern day slave labor as I can understand.
Originally Posted by WardC
Chinese working conditions are different and more strenuous, more demanding, and take place in in a closeted, controlled working environment (worker camps)....something a USA worker factory would not have or allow.
China ? USA. Communism ? republic.
Aside from the large wage differences…
China ? USA. Communism ? republic.
…overbearing de-humanization…
… They want to work longer to make more money.
…upset at Apple for allowing…
Upset at the only company in the industry that actively improves said conditions instead of responding to forced improvements…
…make decent salaries to support their own living…
China ? USA. Communism ? republic.
…NORMAL shift lengths…
CHINA ? USA. COMMUNISM ? REPUBLIC.
…overall be given the freedoms and amenities that US workers have…
CHINA ? USA. COMMUNISM ? REPUBLIC.
THEN I probably wouldn't have AS much of an issue with the Chinese worker situation.
So petition to annex China. I'm all for US expansion myself. Honestly, I am. Not China, though, but different strokes.
Or boycott Apple. Enjoy buying those American-made computers. All none of them.
...it's as close to modern day slave labor as I can understand.
See, modern-day slave labor is called slave labor. You… don't get paid, you work where, when, and how you're told, and you die if you don't. Understand?
It exists, a~nd it's not Foxconn.