Launch of Google Maps for iPhone viewed as a 'mixed blessing' for Apple

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Comments

  • Reply 181 of 267
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Hill60, If you're having some difficulty in figuring out how to turn off location and tracking in iOS6 I don't think you're alone. Most users probably have no idea that Apple sets location and tracking 'On" by default (So much for user privacy). IMO Apple is intentionally making it hard to opt out by putting the switches in odd places, areas where most users would never think to look, assuming they had any idea they needed to. 

    Actually, the choice on whether to enable Location Services is one of the very first questions iOS 5 and 6 ask you during the setup process, even following a backup restore; also, the setting to turn it off globally is right there in the Settings main menu on iOS 5 (though it's harder to find on iOS 6).
  • Reply 182 of 267
    How come when people want to praise the old Apple maps app, it's called 'Google Maps' and when they want to criticize the same app, it's suddenly attributed to Apple again??

    Perhaps because Apple developed the app using Google Maps as the back-end?
  • Reply 183 of 267
    analogjack wrote: »
    Most people do not understand the concept that doing the right thing can never be wrong, in the long term. So it goes with Apple, it's obviously the right thing to do to have google maps available, why not? Now Apple has some breathing space and is in a position to do real damage to Google in the long term by simply making their own mapping product unbelievable excellent, which is bound to happen eventually.

    If you forget the fact that the only ones being damaged in this case are Apple, as they gain absolutely nothing with the current strategy. Had they chosen a completely different path, such as to cooperate with Google and integrate their entire range of services into iOS rather than creating MobileMe / iCloud / Apple Maps, everyone would be winning. This way, Apple is the only losing party because they are investing in services that they never needed to.
  • Reply 184 of 267
    jnjnjnjnjnjn Posts: 588member
    vaelian wrote: »
    Not comparable since they aren't selling you anything. They're providing you with free services. Any company is inherently untrustworthy when they do that, even Apple (you dn't pay extra for Apple's Maps).

    It is comparable, because the companies interest isn't aligned with that of the consumer.
    That's the point I made.
    Apples interest is as aligned - as it can get - with that of is customers.
    Of course Apple would like to sell you as much devices as they can and that is something a consumer has to watch out for. But this is easy to see and easy to get, Googles hidden agenda isn't that obvious (hence the hidden) and not at all made clear by the company. The same goes for MS, they say they have you - as a consumer - in mind but they have a company focus instead.
    So the fact that Googles and MS interest isn't aligned at all with that of it's customers makes them inherently untrustworthy.

    J.
  • Reply 185 of 267
    jnjnjnjnjnjn Posts: 588member
    wisely wrote: »

    ;) ...no need for this step....

    When I was installing Google Map, the privacy and term of use popped up.  I read through the terms carefully and found the box for allowing "Location Data Collection".  I untick it immediately.

    Even if it is ticked it won't be of much use.  I am happy with Apple Map and won't use Google map very much.

    Your right, I initially allowed it. It's not as easy to 'uncheck' afterwards.
    I'am also happy with Apple maps and hope improvements like a Siri voice navigation and better search will arrive soon. It's important to have a valid alternative for Googles ad infested universe.

    J.
  • Reply 186 of 267

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    ... It might be more reasonable to say that, on average, Google Maps will be more accurate than Apple Maps at this time, ...


     


    It might be reasonable if there were data to base it on, but, what little solid data I'm aware of, does not at all support that assertion. 

  • Reply 187 of 267

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    It could possibly have something to do with licensing restrictions. Google uses data from sources other than their own who may not allow repackaging of their map data for a turn-by-turn application to be built by a third party. ...



     


    As usual, a load of bull from GG. At this point, we all know that Google was using turn-by-turn as a bargaining chip to gain access to personal data, and Apple told them to stuff it. Please stop it with the constant rewriting of history.

  • Reply 188 of 267

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NexusPhan View Post


     


    At 71% global market share, android does not need the minor competitive edge that the real google maps app gives. They've already won. They're an ad company that makes money on volume. To that end, it's not even a contest.



     


    Except when they don't make money on volume, like with Android. Financially, Google would have been much better off if they had never gotten involved in Android.

  • Reply 189 of 267

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NexusPhan View Post


     


    Google is as transparent as you can get. They clearly outline everything they are doing in their privacy agreements and you can opt out of everything, which I have done.



     


    If only that were true. Google never stops tracking you no matter what you do. All you can "opt out" of is seeing ads based on that data, they still collect it.


     


    Google is the least transparent, most dishonest, least trustworthy enterprise I've ever seen. Nothing more than a criminal enterprise that ought to be prosecuted under the RICO laws.

  • Reply 190 of 267

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NexusPhan View Post


     


    I say again, Google allows for the opt out of tracking cookies among other opt outs. And as AsianBob pointed out, they are very transparent about what they do and don't do with the collected information. Google maintained that tracking was improper coding and was unintentional. But, who knows about that.



     


    Are you ridiculously naive, or just incompetently disingenuous?


     


    There was nothing inadvertent or unintentional about it, just like there was nothing inadvertent or unintentional about the WiFi snooping program. You are completely beyond the absurd with this notion of "Google's transparency". This is a criminal enterprise that has repeatedly lied to regulators and the public, attempted to cover it up, broken laws left right and center, bought their way out, ...

  • Reply 191 of 267


    Was a decseptuple post really necessary? 

  • Reply 192 of 267

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    Just because you say it doesn't make it true. For years to come people will be saying "if Steve Jobs was alive" and no matter how much you dislike it doesn't change perception.


     


    Members of an enthusiast forum are not an accurate representation of the general public. For those that track Apple on a regular basis if they believe Steve Jobs would have done something differently and the outcome would have been better, perception is reality. Get a clue, people like you acted as if Steve Jobs was a God, guess what God doesn't get replaced for years, if ever.



     


    I see you have just as much anger as always. But, sorry, his point that you are simply stuffing words into Steve Jobs mouth is entirely valid. It's easy to do, and you never take the high road, but it still makes your posts so much nonsense when you do it.

  • Reply 193 of 267


    It's always amusing when you come into a thread like this late in the game and see all these posters desperately trying to blackguard Apple and spin the Google orthodoxy as truth.

  • Reply 194 of 267
    jnjnjn wrote: »
    It is comparable, because the companies interest isn't aligned with that of the consumer.

    You are not the consumer to Google; the advertisers are their clients, so, again, not comparable.

    jnjnjn wrote: »
    IThat's the point I made.

    And that's the point I refuted.

    jnjnjn wrote: »
    IApples interest is as aligned - as it can get - with that of is customers.

    Only as a hardware seller. You can't claim that iAd and the Advertiser ID, for example, have your interests in mind.
  • Reply 195 of 267
    anonymouse wrote: »
    If only that were true. Google never stops tracking you no matter what you do. All you can "opt out" of is seeing ads based on that data, they still collect it.

    Can you prove this? If not, why are you posting it?
  • Reply 196 of 267
    Well obviously a advantage to Google and complaints to apple maps also can go to google.
  • Reply 197 of 267
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    macarena wrote: »
    There is a lot more to this story than meets the eye at first glance. When the full picture comes out, people will realize that this has nothing to do with Maps. This entire story is about Search.

    When the iPhone first launched, Google was paying Apple $100M to be the default search provider on the iPhone. About 2 years back, when relationship between Apple and Google soured, Apple upped the amount to $1B - and Google had no choice but to pony up. This was a whole lot of money, but not being the default search engine on iOS would have hurt Google even more, by allowing Bing access to the high profile customer base of Apple.

    Before the launch of iOS 6, Apple is said to have upped this amount to $2.5B - and really turned the screws on Google. This is really painful for Google, but they still don't have a choice, because at this point in time, iOS is still way too important, both in terms of sheer numbers, as well as the profile of customers. But $2.5B is more than what Google makes out of iOS, which means, Apple was really hurting Google bad.

    Google attempted to negotiate access fees for Google Maps and Youtube - but Apple called them out, and decided to evict YouTube and Maps from iOS. The story with YouTube is very interesting - being part of iOS, the YouTube app was not allowed to offer any ads. And being a free service, Google could not stop Apple from riding on top of YouTube, without indulging in anti-competitive practices. During the iOS 6 stand-off, Google decided to make up for the removal of YouTube by launching its own app, with ads. This was a no-brainer, because Google would actually make a lot of money doing this.

    But when it came to Maps, the scenario was totally different. Google is not releasing Maps for iOS in an attempt to collect information about users on iOS. While that is useful, the benefit to Google from having a much better Maps implementation on Android (thereby adding a lot of value to Android) was a lot more. However, Google realized that the army of iOS users were helping Apple rapidly eliminate inaccuracies in iOS6 Maps. It was just a question of time before iOS6 maps became usable - literally months away. Absolutely the only way for Google to stop that from happening, was to release their own Maps app on iOS, in an attempt to slow down the momentum of corrections in iOS6 maps. If most customers had a very good alternative, there would be zero incentive for them to use iOS6 maps, and report inaccuracies. It is this motive that prompted Google to release iOS6 maps.

    Paradoxically, Google Maps on iOS6 makes the iPhone the best mapping platform - and the only platform where you can access multiple mapping solutions from Apple, Google, Nokia, for free. This will increase adoption of iPhone 5 and iOS6, as even the doubters now have no reason to hold back.

    And the worst part from Google's perspective, is that Apple can still up their demands for keeping Google as the default search engine on iOS. Google literally has no option but to pay up. The only way for Google to avoid this threat is to dramatically increase market share of Android, to make iOS devices.

    And removing Google as default search engine will have even lesser repercussions than what happened with Maps. Whoever is really pissed and misses out on Google can still continue to use Google as their search engine, while the vast majority of users would not even realize that things have changed!

    The best part is, Apple won't even be missing out on the money - MS would happily pay Apple any amount for selecting Bing as the default search engine - and this money makes sense for Bing, because it is attempting to catch up on Google. For Google, paying ridiculous sums makes absolutely no sense, since they are already the market leader!

    All said and done, Google has come out worst out of the entire exercise - Apple takes back all the money Google makes from iOS, and iOS users still get to use all the stuff from Google - and get even more features than they had before!

    The important thing to remember is that Apple makes its money off of hardware sales. Whether the customer uses iOS6 maps, or Google Maps, makes absolutely no difference to Apple in the short term. And in the long term, Apple can work on ironing out the glitches in its maps, and offer not just a technically superior alternative, but also a more accurate alternative.

    Much interesting new detail and viewpoiint. Can you indicate a source for the $2.5 figure? And are you rejecting the standard story that Google wanted too much data from Apple users before they would add TbT and street view to Apple's iOS Maps app, thus forcing Apple to develop their own? Or was it a case of a more general program on Apple's part to cut ties with Google?
  • Reply 198 of 267


     


    Quote:



    Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post





    Speaking of trolls, why are you attacking the analyst's reputation rather than his claim?

    Did you know that Google Maps on iOS was developed by Apple rather than Google?

     


     


    I didn't know that. Don't know that still. Because it is not true. Apple did not develop it alone.


     


    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post



    Did you know that the only reason why Google Maps on iOS was worse than on Android was because Apple was unwilling to accept things that Google has implemented in the current app, such as binding to other Google services and ads?




    The only reason? I didn't know that. Don't know that still. And neither do you.

  • Reply 199 of 267

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    It's always amusing when you come into a thread like this late in the game and see all these posters desperately trying to blackguard Apple and spin the Google orthodoxy as truth.





    True. But to be fair, there are also those who defend Apple when there is no reason or need. Some are fanatical about Google. Others (a larger population) are fanatical about Apple. The truth, as usual, is somewhere in between.

  • Reply 200 of 267
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by macarena View Post


    There is a lot more to this story than meets the eye at first glance. When the full picture comes out, people will realize that this has nothing to do with Maps. This entire story is about Search.


     


    When the iPhone first launched, Google was paying Apple $100M to be the default search provider on the iPhone. About 2 years back, when relationship between Apple and Google soured, Apple upped the amount to $1B - and Google had no choice but to pony up. This was a whole lot of money, but not being the default search engine on iOS would have hurt Google even more, by allowing Bing access to the high profile customer base of Apple.


     


    Before the launch of iOS 6, Apple is said to have upped this amount to $2.5B - and really turned the screws on Google. This is really painful for Google, but they still don't have a choice, because at this point in time, iOS is still way too important, both in terms of sheer numbers, as well as the profile of customers. But $2.5B is more than what Google makes out of iOS, which means, Apple was really hurting Google bad.


     


    Google attempted to negotiate access fees for Google Maps and Youtube - but Apple called them out, and decided to evict YouTube and Maps from iOS. The story with YouTube is very interesting - being part of iOS, the YouTube app was not allowed to offer any ads. And being a free service, Google could not stop Apple from riding on top of YouTube, without indulging in anti-competitive practices. During the iOS 6 stand-off, Google decided to make up for the removal of YouTube by launching its own app, with ads. This was a no-brainer, because Google would actually make a lot of money doing this.


     


    But when it came to Maps, the scenario was totally different. Google is not releasing Maps for iOS in an attempt to collect information about users on iOS. While that is useful, the benefit to Google from having a much better Maps implementation on Android (thereby adding a lot of value to Android) was a lot more. However, Google realized that the army of iOS users were helping Apple rapidly eliminate inaccuracies in iOS6 Maps. It was just a question of time before iOS6 maps became usable - literally months away. Absolutely the only way for Google to stop that from happening, was to release their own Maps app on iOS, in an attempt to slow down the momentum of corrections in iOS6 maps. If most customers had a very good alternative, there would be zero incentive for them to use iOS6 maps, and report inaccuracies. It is this motive that prompted Google to release iOS6 maps.


     


    Paradoxically, Google Maps on iOS6 makes the iPhone the best mapping platform - and the only platform where you can access multiple mapping solutions from Apple, Google, Nokia, for free. This will increase adoption of iPhone 5 and iOS6, as even the doubters now have no reason to hold back.


     


    And the worst part from Google's perspective, is that Apple can still up their demands for keeping Google as the default search engine on iOS. Google literally has no option but to pay up. The only way for Google to avoid this threat is to dramatically increase market share of Android, to make iOS devices.


     


    And removing Google as default search engine will have even lesser repercussions than what happened with Maps. Whoever is really pissed and misses out on Google can still continue to use Google as their search engine, while the vast majority of users would not even realize that things have changed!


     


    The best part is, Apple won't even be missing out on the money - MS would happily pay Apple any amount for selecting Bing as the default search engine - and this money makes sense for Bing, because it is attempting to catch up on Google. For Google, paying ridiculous sums makes absolutely no sense, since they are already the market leader!


     


    All said and done, Google has come out worst out of the entire exercise - Apple takes back all the money Google makes from iOS, and iOS users still get to use all the stuff from Google - and get even more features than they had before!


     


    The important thing to remember is that Apple makes its money off of hardware sales. Whether the customer uses iOS6 maps, or Google Maps, makes absolutely no difference to Apple in the short term. And in the long term, Apple can work on ironing out the glitches in its maps, and offer not just a technically superior alternative, but also a more accurate alternative.



     


    thanks much for rational thinking! there is more stupid on the web about this now than maybe ever before.


     


    simple fact is Google came crawling back to Apple with a much improved Maps app because it can't afford to be kicked off iOS. likewise, MS will soon release iOS Office suite apps, because it can't afford to be left out either.


     


    meanwhile, Apple will keep improving its own alternative apps too to keep up the pressure and avoid ever being dependent on anyone else.


     


    Schmidt just claimed Android is "wining the war." actually, it's winning the race - the Race To The Bottom. congrats, Fool!

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