Service for pirating iOS apps abruptly closes, cites 'stagnant' community

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 89
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    solipsismx wrote: »
    You can demo a car. Or, you with pretty much every physical product you buy in the store you can return it if you don't like it.

    This is misleading. You can demo a car - IF THE DEALER ALLOWS YOU TO. You can try a physical product and then return it if you don't like it IF THE RETAILER ALLOWS YOU TO.

    You don't get to arbitrarily define the terms of the deal. IF the seller doesn't allow you to try it before you buy, then you have no right to just take it without permission - whether it's a physical product or software.

    If there's software that you want to try before you buy it, talk to the developer. Ask them to make a demo version. Or read the reviews. Or ask someone who owns it. Taking it without permission is not an acceptable solution.
  • Reply 22 of 89
    200 Million iOS 6 upgrades will do that to you without a jailbreak.
  • Reply 23 of 89


    Originally Posted by Phone-UI-Guy View Post

    200 Million iOS 6 upgrades will do that to you without a jailbreak.


     


    I'm glad they've practically given up on jailbreaking. If only to stop this piracy idiocy…

  • Reply 24 of 89
    jragosta wrote: »
    The problem is that if the developer wanted you to be able to try their app, they can easily do it.

    I'm a developer. I disagree. There actually aren't any *good* options.

    If you have two versions of the app, free and paid, then you get people writing reviews for only one. The free version will mainly get bad reviews in many cases since the people who didn't like it review it. Searches will sometimes produce the wrong version. People may not notice the free version.

    In app purchase gets lots of annoyed complaints about how the app price is misleading and it really isn't free.
  • Reply 25 of 89


    Originally Posted by gopiballava View Post

    In app purchase gets lots of annoyed complaints about how the app price is misleading and it really isn't free.


     


    IN-APP UNLOCKING! AHA!


     


    Apps made free with limited features. Unlock ALL other features available within the app simultaneously with a purchase therein. 

  • Reply 26 of 89
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,860member
    lilgto64 wrote: »
    I had not even heard of the site until this story. Not that I have been terribly interested in jailbreak for any reason - yes I have been tempted a couple times in order to add features that are not supported by Apple or available via officially approved Apps. 

    The site is new to me also. Similar to you I've had no desire at all to jailbreak my iPhone, my iPad is a different story and I've flirted with the idea more there. The problem with iPad is that I would like more access to the hardware that makes up the iPad. IPad would be just the nuts for hooking up to small microcontroller a in the field that don't have WiFi support. Read here ROBOTS. It is probably the one thing that frustrates me about iPad. USB could really use enhanced support for user apps and RS232 bridges.
  • Reply 26 of 89
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,860member
    Duplicate post, no idea how that happened.
  • Reply 28 of 89


    Oh well.  You former Hackulous users can satisfy your need to "smash the establishment" by stealing candy bars from 7-11.  


     


    Stick it to the man!

  • Reply 29 of 89
    jragosta wrote: »
    This is misleading. You can demo a car - IF THE DEALER ALLOWS YOU TO. You can try a physical product and then return it if you don't like it IF THE RETAILER ALLOWS YOU TO.
    You don't get to arbitrarily define the terms of the deal. IF the seller doesn't allow you to try it before you buy, then you have no right to just take it without permission - whether it's a physical product or software.
    If there's software that you want to try before you buy it, talk to the developer. Ask them to make a demo version. Or read the reviews. Or ask someone who owns it. Taking it without permission is not an acceptable solution.

    It's not misleading, the point is here are options for pretty much every product on the market, including app. Apple is hurting itself, its 3rd party developers and its customers by not allowing a trial version of apps which means that people will not bypass apps more readily if they don't think the value added will surpass the asking price of the app.

    For example, I love 1Password. I recommend it to everyone. I have it for my iPad, iPhone, Mac, and even a Windows license. There is a new version for iOS. As much as I love the app I don't see how the benefit of paying $8 for the new version will be worth it over my current version. Hence, I haven't bought it. Now if there was an API for developers that allow for simple time, usage, and/or level based limitations I surely would have tested the app therefore making it more likely for me to have bought the app if I was rightly impressed with the changes.

    Not every developer can have multiple versions of the same app. Rovio can do it with ease but they would probably save time and money by Apple offering a better system. Note that Apple has had this with movie rentals for years and the in-app purchases design can be used to unlock a full version of an app. From what I can tell all the parts are there

    As for you trying to make this into a discussion of ethics then it's a moot point. You can't argue and say that people should follow the rules regardless of what are they are because you're no longer talking about technology or economics, you're talking about philosophy and I can bring up a great deal of examples of people "breaking the law" that you would have to agree with thereby making any blanket statement about rule breaking moot.
  • Reply 30 of 89
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,687member


    I get all of my apps 20% cheaper, no sleazy jailbreaking or piracy involved! image


     


    I recently stocked up on a few iTunes giftcards that some retailers had for sale. There are a few expensive apps that I've been looking to get, and I'm now all set!image

  • Reply 31 of 89
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,860member
    emig647 wrote: »
    Well I'm an a$$hole then.
    Well that is certainly true due to your shitty behavior.
    I've done it and am proud of it. Know why?
    Because you are a thief living in denial.
    Odds are I've paid for more apps than most. There isn't a demo system with iOS. You have to blindly purchase apps.
    This is so much BS that it is unreal. Have you never heard of the web, review sits, developer sites and the like. How about just getting old fashion and reading a magazine. This idea that you have to buy blindly is nothing more than an excuse.
    Some devs put out free versions, and I applaud them. I never pirate if there is a demoable version of sorts. There are many in my group that are the same way.
    Just because the den of thieves is filled to the brim doesn't make that den anymore socially acceptable. Think about this if this same group of thieves where to agree with you that you cold jump off a cliff and not get hurt would you still jump off that cliff? Just because you can seek out people that confirm and support your moral weakness doesn't mean they have your best interest at heart. Child molesters are know to form groups and associations, that doesn't by any means make what they do right even if they confirm each others Dark side.
    Either way, IMO, the scene has died down a ton since iOS 6. That's fine and not a big deal. Just wish we could get demos and ad versions easily.
    Frankly nobody wants ad versions except for Google. Everyone that I've had ends up being a mess to use because of the ad system. It is far better to gamble a dollar or even ten on the unknown app, then it is to deal with ad supported software. Hell you spend more on a soda, burger or Popcorn then the cost of these apps. This really points out just how cheap and disingenuous you really are here.
    Btw, I'm also a developer which is how I learned about these methods.

    Good for you, I really hope you aren't trying to make a living off your apps. In the long run piracy would destroy the market that exists now with iOS devices.
  • Reply 32 of 89


    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

    Good for you, I really hope you aren't trying to make a living off your apps. In the long run piracy would destroy the market that exists now with iOS devices.


     


    No one actually makes a living off of making software¡ How stupid do you have to be to think that all software isn't just made by people who have real jobs in their spare time¡ At any rate, I already paid for [such and such] from the same company, so I paid my dues¡


     


    Guh, the level of stupidity in some people. Anything to rationalize away what they know for a fact is objectively wrong.

  • Reply 33 of 89
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by emig647 View Post



    Well I'm an a$$hole then. I've done it and am proud of it. Know why? Odds are I've paid for more apps than most. There isn't a demo system with iOS. You have to blindly purchase apps. Some devs put out free versions, and I applaud them. I never pirate if there is a demoable version of sorts. There are many in my group that are the same way.

    Either way, IMO, the scene has died down a ton since iOS 6. That's fine and not a big deal. Just wish we could get demos and ad versions easily.

    Btw, I'm also a developer which is how I learned about these methods.


     


    The whole "there needs to be a demo" argument is obfuscatory bullshit considering a marketplace where the average selling price is lower than a cup of coffee.  


    You're either an idiot or a criminal.  Take your pick. 

  • Reply 34 of 89
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    You can demo a car. Or, you with pretty much every physical product you buy in the store you can return it if you don't like it. Apple really needs to include this in their App Store. There a plenty of apps I won't even try because there is no trial period. However, if they allowed me to try it for two weeks or 10 uses or whatever and if I wanted to use it again after that I got a modal window saying I need to pay for it from the App Store I would likely be trying and buying a lot more apps. I think it hurts developers by not having this option.

    I did emig647 did back when TomTom was new to iOS and cost $100. I tried it, I liked, it but the lack of the option for backgrounding App Store apps meant it wasn't going to work for me. I deleted it and then bought it from the App Store as soon as that option and update came along.


     


    This is a pretty lame argument if you ask me.  You're trying to make out (without really saying it explicitly), that "try before you buy" is a common thing in many other industries when it clearly isn't.  In particular, you get to try out a car before you buy it because it costs tens of thousands of dollars.  You don't get to try an app before you buy it because it only costs a couple of bucks.  


     


    I've been buying software since computers first existed and the number of times I could try it before I bought it I could count on zero fingers.  "Try before you buy" has never been the case with most things that you buy.  It's never been the case with movies or records or TV shows or software of any kind in my experience.  I'm sure you might come up with the odd case where this has happened, but by far the majority of software is sold sealed, as is, and non-returnable.  The only exception I can think of is one of those horrible games stores (thankfully disappearing lately), that buy and sell second hand game cartridges.  


     


    This recent idea that Apple "needs" to have a try before you buy system is just a meme that lacks any kind of factual basis or proof that it would do anything at all.  Importantly, it's a meme which originates with the people doing the stealing.  It's like their credo or something.  


     


    It's closer to a popular misconception than any kind of fact or desirable outcome.  There is nothing at all that I have read or heard that would indicate to me that it would have any affect on theft at all.  I don't think anyone has even done the due diligence to look into the pros and cons of such a scheme, it's just accepted as "the answer" by the tech media without any real examination of the idea at all.  In other words it's a myth.  


     


    I put it in the same category as those that say iPhone "needs" a bigger screen to compete, that OS X "needs" to go after to corporate users, and that Apple "needs" to make an x-Mac mini-tower computer.  


    All myth.  All bullshit IMO. 

  • Reply 35 of 89


    There's a lot of misinformation in the comments here.


     


    First, jailbreaking != piracy.  There are plenty of reasons to jailbreak besides the desire to pirate.  I know a lot of jailbreakers, and very few pirates.


     


    You don't need to jailbreak in order to pirate apps.  You can even pirate apps on iOS 6. 


     


    Dev-Team is not down.  See:


    http://blog.iphone-dev.org/


     


    While the iPhone 5 has yet to be jailbroken, new iPhones usually take some time to jailbreak.  The jailbreak for the iPhone 5 isn't that late.  And the number of jailbreakable iOS devices in use is at an all time high.  Additionally, the number of jailbroken devices in use is at an all time high.  The impact of not having a jailbreak available for the latest crop of iOS devices hasn't been felt yet other than as a not as of yet realized opportunity for those selling apps and services in Cydia.


     


    If demand is down for Hackulous, as opposed to them using that as a cover story, then it's likely because many people decided to stop pirating apps.  Really, it made little sense for people to do this unless it was to try an app out or to downgrade an app to a previous version.  I myself did this, but eventually just started keeping old versions of my apps as part of my archiving.


     


    Really though, Apple should implement a timed-trial flag in their app store.  They could have a setting upon submission to the store that allows developers 0 for no trial, or any number of days (maybe set at 0, 1 day, 7 days, 30 days). 


     


    Additionally, it would be nice for Apple to allow multiple versions of an app.  The app would only be listed once in the store (and through all directories and searches), but when you're on the app page, you should be allowed to have the version number as a pull-down list that you can go to and select previous versions.  This would allow you to still buy older versions of apps for older iOS devices.  You'd also be able to see the version history this way and determine whether or not the app is being adequately developed over time.  Each version would have its own page to go with it, along with comments and reviews.  Anyone not interested in the Version feature would not be impacted at all since the default version is always the latest and everything is unchanged from how it is now, unless the user clicks on the version number.

  • Reply 36 of 89
    I see all the usual excuses for piracy are present.

    What it really comes down to is that people still don't get the idea that something virtual (software, music, movies) has value. Everyone knows stealing a car is theft, but many people who would never steal a car have no problem with pirating expensive software like Photoshop or Autocad and could easily have pirated enough material to equal the cost of a car.
  • Reply 37 of 89

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


     


    You're either an idiot or a criminal.  Take your pick. 



     


     


    Why can't it be both?

  • Reply 38 of 89

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

     


    "You don't get to try an app before you buy it because it only costs a couple of bucks. "


     


    Some apps cost a lot more than a couple of bucks.


     


    "I've been buying software since computers first existed and the number of times I could try it before I bought it I could count on zero fingers."


     


    WHAT?


     


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shareware


     


    I guess you never bought any software from... I dunno, ADOBE?


    http://www.adobe.com/downloads/?promoid=JZEFS


     


    Or this little software developer in Redmond called MICROSOFT?


    http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/try/


     


    Maybe APPLE itself?


    http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/


     


    Heck, I'm at a loss here.  Outside of the Apple App stores, where can't you try software from an online source before you buy?


     


    "It's never been the case with movies or records or TV shows"


     


    TV Shows... Yes they do.  Take a look at many TV shows for sell in many different online stores.  Often the pilot episode is free.  Apple launched TV Shows by having free pilots of upcoming shows.


     


    Records... Back when we had record stores, you were usually able to ask the store to play a record.  Most stores also had listening booths, and latter kiosks with headphones.  Today, the music is available on the radio and even on iTunes you're able to play 1:30 of most songs and many albums allow preview streams before release.


     


    Movies... Again, there are trailers, but there's a practicality here of a movie being an experience, and they can't give you a full experience as a trial, which is why there are trailers, which give you a limited experience before your decision to buy.


     


    Really, how many companies where there is a product or service (where some sort of trial could be given at no cost/effort/time to the seller and no practical utility to the customer that would defeat the purpose of sell) where the trial isn't offered? 


     


    "This recent idea that Apple "needs" to have a try before you buy system is just a meme that lacks any kind of factual basis or proof that it would do anything at all.  Importantly, it's a meme which originates with the people doing the stealing.  It's like their credo or something. "


     


    Change the word "need" to "should".  I don't think anyone means "needs".


     


    The proof comes from many people who have pirated and then purchased.  You can choose not to believe them, but many people creating the sites and the apps are listing this as the primary purpose.  Many state emphatically that this should be the only purpose.  Now, if Apple implements a trial flag for the apps, then you can point a finger at them, call them liars and know for certain that the pirates that exist from that point on are doing it solely to steal.  However, for now, I'd encourage you to ask around and see what people you know are doing, and even perhaps show you.    I have 750 apps from iTunes and probably another 100 through Cydia.  Not one is pirated.  If you're in the Bay Area, I can show you this in person.  And yet, I'm telling you, as a consumer and as a developer, I'd like a trial flag for apps.


     


    "It's closer to a popular misconception than any kind of fact or desirable outcome.  There is nothing at all that I have read or heard that would indicate to me that it would have any affect on theft at all."


     


    Take a look at the words from Steve Jobs himself and think about what he meant by them.  I'm talking about the music industry and his efforts to eliminate DRM and the impact it would have on piracy.  He was right.  It didn't eliminate piracy, but it helped.  It was about making the purchasing process fair to the consumer.  When you're selling apps, some (not all) of which are very expensive, and don't have trials, consumers are reluctant to purchase.  Open an avenue for getting the app for free without the risk of paying for something they won't like and people will take it.  Remove that risk, and only thieves will continue to take it.

  • Reply 39 of 89
    @emi647

    Your argument for demo apps is valid. The lack of a trial mode for apps is definitely a weakness of the iOS and Mac App Stores.

    But I'd also like to try strawberry milk one day. Am I going to walk into the store, open up a carton and test it out before buying? If I don't like it, do I leave it on the shelf? Why would I pay for it if I didn't like it, right?

    Your actions to try applications before buying only hurts the developers, not Apple. But it's Apple's shortcoming with regards to how apps are distributed. So put your focus in the right place and go after Apple. Stop justifying stealing.
  • Reply 40 of 89

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    No one actually makes a living off of making software¡ How stupid do you have to be to think that all software isn't just made by people who have real jobs in their spare time¡ At any rate, I already paid for [such and such] from the same company, so I paid my dues¡


     


    Guh, the level of stupidity in some people. Anything to rationalize away what they know for a fact is objectively wrong.



     


    You have "Administrator" next to your handle, but the above statement contradicts that. I make a living off of making software. I have my own software company.

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