But the market doesn't operate purely based on P/E, and there is still a lot of uncertainty in regards to Cook's leadership, especially after the recent gaffs with the Retail chain and the (much needed, according to some) departure of Forstall. Apple needs to not only have a great year, but release some truly innovative products with their next iPad, iPhone, iOS7 and Mac lines before 1,000 and higher become realistic possibilities.
But plenty of people in the investment community and in the media are rewriting history. If you believe them Apple was coming out with revolutionary products left and right under Steve Jobs. That wasn't the case. There was 4 years between iMac and iPod, 6 years between iPod and iPhone and 3 years between iPhone and iPad. I'm sick of people throwing out this innovation BS. Everyone throws it out to knock Apple but yet can't ever really articulate what others are doing that is so much more innovative. A lot of people would say bigger displays on smartphones is innovation. Yet at the same time don't think Apple fitting all this amazing technology into thinner and lighter devices is innovative at all. PC OEM's are throwing out all these different laptop designs - convertibles, touch screens, etc. but we have yet to see any real demand for them. I have zero problems with Apple being more conservative rather than throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.
But the market doesn't operate purely based on P/E, and there is still a lot of uncertainty in regards to Cook's leadership, especially after the recent gaffs with the Retail chain and the (much needed, according to some) departure of Forstall. Apple needs to not only have a great year, but release some truly innovative products with their next iPad, iPhone, iOS7 and Mac lines before 1,000 and higher become realistic possibilities.
The market doesn't look solely at P/E, but it's a primary consideration for long term investors. More importantly, the investor has to predict what the P/E will be in the future.
The point is that EVEN IF APPLE'S PROFITS DO NOT GROW for the next decade, they're STILL vastly under-priced. A general rule is that if the investor thinks they're growing at the same rate as the market (a couple percent a year), the the P/E (after adjusting for assets) should be compared to the market's P/E ratio. It can vary, but there needs to be a good reason and "we're not comfortable with Cook yet" isn't much of one considering how integral his role has been for the past decade.
It can vary, but there needs to be a good reason and "we're not comfortable with Cook yet" isn't much of one considering how integral his role has been for the past decade.
What about "some of us are really starting to wonder why Cook has the reputation he has" given the fact that the past year has seen colossal mistakes of production (and mismatching design with production capabilities). Unsure, vs actively starting to dislike... well, I'm in the latter category.
What about "some of us are really starting to wonder why Cook has the reputation he has" given the fact that the past year has seen colossal mistakes of production (and mismatching design with production capabilities). Unsure, vs actively starting to dislike... well, I'm in the latter category.
Or maybe you just don't know what you're talking about. "colossal mistake of production" and "mismatching design with production capabilities"? Maybe you should stop accepting rumors as Gospel.
The market doesn't look solely at P/E, but it's a primary consideration for long term investors. More importantly, the investor has to predict what the P/E will be in the future.
Do you know of any sites that will list and sort companies (either all within a sector or just all companies) by factors like this?
Yahoo! Finance does it by entire sector, which isn't helpful at all. I just want to see where Amazon's 3,594.36 P/E stands when compared to others in the tech industry and the global market as a whole.
AAPL has been on a short down term recently, fueled by various factors, including general global economic worries, fiscal cliff crap and a whole slew of moronic and clueless media writing garbage, bogus articles. Not very bright people have been predicting Apple's death for decades now, and I'm sorry to tell these morons that Apple's best days are still ahead of it.
Just you wait and see. I can definitely see $1,111 happening. AAPL has big swings both up and down, but when it starts on it's ascent again, it's going to be quick, brutal and like a super charged rocket ship. When AAPL moves up, it moves up quickly, so quickly that people are afraid of missing the train, and so quickly, that bears and people holding shorts are going to crap their pants in order to cover their losses.
$1,111 here we come! I'm hoping that today's move means that AAPL can finally continue on it's intended path again, especially with the earnings report coming next week. Of course nobody, besides a few people at Apple knows exactly what's in that report, but if it's a good report, which I'm certainly hoping that it is, I wouldn't be surprised if we are back at $600 very soon. Like I said, just you wait and see. And that is my 2 cents.
Do you know of any sites that will list and sort companies (either all within a sector or just all companies) by factors like this?
Yahoo! Finance does it by entire sector, which isn't helpful at all. I just want to see where Amazon's 3,594.36 P/E stands when compared to others in the tech industry and the global market as a whole.
According to this article, Amazon lost $247 Million in it's last quarter and Apple had profits of more than 8 Billion.
How Amazon has a P/E in the thousands is just a freaking joke, while Apple has a P/E that is so low that a child can count it using ten fingers and a few toes.
The biggest surprise for me here is the prediction that they sold 4x as many full-size iPads as iPad Minis. I think the mix will lean much more heavily towards the Minis. Not great for the margins, but I think they sold a lot of Minis.
Or maybe you just don't know what you're talking about. "colossal mistake of production" and "mismatching design with production capabilities"? Maybe you should stop accepting rumors as Gospel.
Apple clearly couldn't produce the iMac in quantities sufficient to satisfy the market during the holiday season. There is dispute, which we will find out the truth about soon, about the iPhone5. The iPad3 could not be made quickly enough because of the retina screen. Neither of us "know what we're talking about" until the numbers come out. At least I acknowledge that. You also need to look up the meaning of the word gospel.
Do you know of any sites that will list and sort companies (either all within a sector or just all companies) by factors like this?
Yahoo! Finance does it by entire sector, which isn't helpful at all. I just want to see where Amazon's 3,594.36 P/E stands when compared to others in the tech industry and the global market as a whole.
Not a very comprehensive list, but here's a few companies. It's six months old.
Brian white has been wrong so many times in his earnings calls that it almost a sure thing that you can bet on the opposite of what he's saying.
No analyst on the planet gets its right every time, and yes, they are often wrong.
However, I'd say that his price target is closer to being right, than a few moronic analysts who predict doom and gloom for apple, and for AAPL to collapse.
Do you know of any sites that will list and sort companies (either all within a sector or just all companies) by factors like this?
Yahoo! Finance does it by entire sector, which isn't helpful at all. I just want to see where Amazon's 3,594.36 P/E stands when compared to others in the tech industry and the global market as a whole.
Go to google.com/finance, select 'Stock Screener' on the left, and input a P/E range (e.g., min 3000 max 9000), and ask it it to list the stocks.
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Not a very comprehensive list, but here's a few companies. It's six months old.
These are Forward P/Es (i.e., price divided by forecasted earnings for next year).
Amazon's Current P/E is, indeed, 3000+, and only three other companies -- all tiny, and all losers -- currently exceed that for any listed stock in the US.
Btw, if I were Bezos, I'd be having nightmares about about the earnings growth I'd have to show over the course of the coming year to get my P/E from its current 3000+ to less than 100!
Go to google.com/finance, select 'Stock Screener' on the left, and input a P/E range (e.g., min 3000 max 9000), and ask it it to list the stocks.
Have fun with the answer!
Thanks!
Fourth highest. FOURTH. HIGHEST.
What the heck is Pizza Inn? Looks like every single argument against Apple in the App Store trademark thread has just been invalidated: you don't like how "Pizza" and "Hut" in one name have been trademarked? SHUT UP AND CHANGE YOUR NAME. Worked for these guys.
These are Forward P/Es (i.e., price divided by forecasted earnings for next year).
Actually, everything I've seen says that Apple's CURRENT P/E is under 12 and the forward P/E is under 9. After you adjust for cash, those numbers drop to about 10-11 current and low 7s for forward P/E/
What the heck is Pizza Inn? Looks like every single argument against Apple in the App Store trademark thread has just been invalidated: you don't like how "Pizza" and "Hut" in one name have been trademarked? SHUT UP AND CHANGE YOUR NAME. Worked for these guys.
1) For a company with about 150x the market cap of the next highest on the list it's an outrageous P/E.
2) Pizza Inn is a hotel chain that has a pizza buffet in the morning instead of a continental breakfast. (not true)
edit: Wow!
I just have to post this clip again...
[VIDEO]
edit 2: Each chain started in 1958. Pizza Hut in Kansas and Pizza Inn in Texas.
Comments
The market doesn't look solely at P/E, but it's a primary consideration for long term investors. More importantly, the investor has to predict what the P/E will be in the future.
The point is that EVEN IF APPLE'S PROFITS DO NOT GROW for the next decade, they're STILL vastly under-priced. A general rule is that if the investor thinks they're growing at the same rate as the market (a couple percent a year), the the P/E (after adjusting for assets) should be compared to the market's P/E ratio. It can vary, but there needs to be a good reason and "we're not comfortable with Cook yet" isn't much of one considering how integral his role has been for the past decade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
It can vary, but there needs to be a good reason and "we're not comfortable with Cook yet" isn't much of one considering how integral his role has been for the past decade.
What about "some of us are really starting to wonder why Cook has the reputation he has" given the fact that the past year has seen colossal mistakes of production (and mismatching design with production capabilities). Unsure, vs actively starting to dislike... well, I'm in the latter category.
Or maybe you just don't know what you're talking about. "colossal mistake of production" and "mismatching design with production capabilities"? Maybe you should stop accepting rumors as Gospel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907
I wasn't aware Apple had released sales figures for Q4. I thought that was next week.
As for Q3, well: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/08/galaxy-s3-sales-worlds-number-one-smartphone_n_2091689.html
Now if you want to compare ALL iPhones, from 3GS to 5, versus ALL Galaxy S series phones, pretty sure Samsung comes out ahead on that too.
it's interesting that ALL iPhones excludes the original and the 3G. Not sure how Sammy comes out on top when they only beat the iphone in 1 quarter.
Originally Posted by jragosta
The market doesn't look solely at P/E, but it's a primary consideration for long term investors. More importantly, the investor has to predict what the P/E will be in the future.
Do you know of any sites that will list and sort companies (either all within a sector or just all companies) by factors like this?
Yahoo! Finance does it by entire sector, which isn't helpful at all. I just want to see where Amazon's 3,594.36 P/E stands when compared to others in the tech industry and the global market as a whole.
AAPL has been on a short down term recently, fueled by various factors, including general global economic worries, fiscal cliff crap and a whole slew of moronic and clueless media writing garbage, bogus articles. Not very bright people have been predicting Apple's death for decades now, and I'm sorry to tell these morons that Apple's best days are still ahead of it.
Just you wait and see. I can definitely see $1,111 happening. AAPL has big swings both up and down, but when it starts on it's ascent again, it's going to be quick, brutal and like a super charged rocket ship. When AAPL moves up, it moves up quickly, so quickly that people are afraid of missing the train, and so quickly, that bears and people holding shorts are going to crap their pants in order to cover their losses.
$1,111 here we come! I'm hoping that today's move means that AAPL can finally continue on it's intended path again, especially with the earnings report coming next week. Of course nobody, besides a few people at Apple knows exactly what's in that report, but if it's a good report, which I'm certainly hoping that it is, I wouldn't be surprised if we are back at $600 very soon. Like I said, just you wait and see. And that is my 2 cents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Do you know of any sites that will list and sort companies (either all within a sector or just all companies) by factors like this?
Yahoo! Finance does it by entire sector, which isn't helpful at all. I just want to see where Amazon's 3,594.36 P/E stands when compared to others in the tech industry and the global market as a whole.
According to this article, Amazon lost $247 Million in it's last quarter and Apple had profits of more than 8 Billion.
http://blogs.hbr.org/pallotta/2013/01/the-market-wants-apple-to-unve.html
How Amazon has a P/E in the thousands is just a freaking joke, while Apple has a P/E that is so low that a child can count it using ten fingers and a few toes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Or maybe you just don't know what you're talking about. "colossal mistake of production" and "mismatching design with production capabilities"? Maybe you should stop accepting rumors as Gospel.
Apple clearly couldn't produce the iMac in quantities sufficient to satisfy the market during the holiday season. There is dispute, which we will find out the truth about soon, about the iPhone5. The iPad3 could not be made quickly enough because of the retina screen. Neither of us "know what we're talking about" until the numbers come out. At least I acknowledge that. You also need to look up the meaning of the word gospel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Do you know of any sites that will list and sort companies (either all within a sector or just all companies) by factors like this?
Yahoo! Finance does it by entire sector, which isn't helpful at all. I just want to see where Amazon's 3,594.36 P/E stands when compared to others in the tech industry and the global market as a whole.
Not a very comprehensive list, but here's a few companies. It's six months old.
Brian white has been wrong so many times in his earnings calls that it almost a sure thing that you can bet on the opposite of what he's saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4
Brian white has been wrong so many times in his earnings calls that it almost a sure thing that you can bet on the opposite of what he's saying.
No analyst on the planet gets its right every time, and yes, they are often wrong.
However, I'd say that his price target is closer to being right, than a few moronic analysts who predict doom and gloom for apple, and for AAPL to collapse.
We shall see where AAPL is 12 months from now.
Go to google.com/finance, select 'Stock Screener' on the left, and input a P/E range (e.g., min 3000 max 9000), and ask it it to list the stocks.
Have fun with the answer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
Not a very comprehensive list, but here's a few companies. It's six months old.
Today's P/E for Apple is 11.46
For Google: 22.40.
For Amazon: 3,594.36
For LinkedIn: 767.77
For Facebook: 277.47
For Priceline: 25.21
For eBay: 18.04
These are Forward P/Es (i.e., price divided by forecasted earnings for next year).
Amazon's Current P/E is, indeed, 3000+, and only three other companies -- all tiny, and all losers -- currently exceed that for any listed stock in the US.
Btw, if I were Bezos, I'd be having nightmares about about the earnings growth I'd have to show over the course of the coming year to get my P/E from its current 3000+ to less than 100!
And for AMZN: 3,594.36
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Go to google.com/finance, select 'Stock Screener' on the left, and input a P/E range (e.g., min 3000 max 9000), and ask it it to list the stocks.
Have fun with the answer!
Thanks!
Fourth highest. FOURTH. HIGHEST.
What the heck is Pizza Inn? Looks like every single argument against Apple in the App Store trademark thread has just been invalidated: you don't like how "Pizza" and "Hut" in one name have been trademarked? SHUT UP AND CHANGE YOUR NAME. Worked for these guys.
Actually, everything I've seen says that Apple's CURRENT P/E is under 12 and the forward P/E is under 9. After you adjust for cash, those numbers drop to about 10-11 current and low 7s for forward P/E/
1) For a company with about 150x the market cap of the next highest on the list it's an outrageous P/E.
2) Pizza Inn is a hotel chain that has a pizza buffet in the morning instead of a continental breakfast. (not true)
edit: Wow!
I just have to post this clip again...
[VIDEO]
edit 2: Each chain started in 1958. Pizza Hut in Kansas and Pizza Inn in Texas.