In their defense they did have the Surface Pro planned from the start.
Indeed. What I have yet to understand is why the Surface Windows 8 'pro' version was pushed months after the RT launch, missing holidays sales and helping to create some confusion about the two different OSes (windows RT and now windows 8)...
I have this idea for putting the electronics and battery inside the keyboard, which would then be permanently attached to the screen, which could then be adjusted to any angle. It's the logical evolutionary path for the Surface.
Genius. That would eliminate the need for the kickstand as well.
Indeed. What I have yet to understand is why the Surface Windows 8 'pro' version was pushed months after the RT launch, missing holidays sales and helping to create some confusion about the two different OSes (windows RT and now windows 8)...
If you can only have one for the Holidays I think the RT is the way to go. The price is nearly half that of the Pro and corporations that want to invest in the MS Surface would likely also need the Pro for AD and probably wouldn't be able to buy them until the new fiscal year.
I have this idea for putting the electronics and battery inside the keyboard, which would then be permanently attached to the screen, which could then be adjusted to any angle. It's the logical evolutionary path for the Surface.
Hmmm, great idea. You've just suggested making a small laptop! My guess is that the next step will be to include a battery in the keyboard cover, just to give the Surface Pro usability beyond a couple of hours. Then they'll have a 4+ lb netbook sized laptop, which of course will just destroy any hope Apple has of selling MacBook Air 11" models...
Only two weeks later than promised, not bad Microsoft. It's sure to help all those non-techies who are confused by the Surface RT too - now there's another Surface to choose from, and it's thicker, heavier and more expensive! With shorter battery life too! Oh joy, just what everyone who hasn't bought a Surface RT is looking for...
1) That's for the Surface RT which uses the stripped down version of the OS. Surface Pro uses the full Windows 8 build thus uses a lot more space. It also uses a lot more resources which will likely make many tasks feel much slower than the iPad despite the use of a Core processor.
The lost space can be attributed to two things, the rather heavy OS (in disk usage anyway), and the inclusion of a fairly feature complete version of desktop Office 2013.
While most folks think Windows RT is a stripped-down version of Windows, it really isn't. It's actually a rather complete, clean port of Windows to the ARM architecture. The heavy disk space use for the install is one of the things that exposes this. The main difference between Windows 8 and Windows RT, other than the obvious difference of CPU architecture, is that RT is simply restricted from running non-Microsoft desktop apps.
It should be noted that maybe Microsoft should have stripped down RT to just the Metro interface. I've gone back and forth on it, but right now I think maybe they should have left out the desktop despite its usefulness and leaving behind just the 'new' Windows.
I will disagree with you on the point of the Surface Pro performance. The performance of the Surface Pro should easily eclipse the performance of the iPad 4. My reasons are listed below.
Windows 8 - Windows 8 is the second straight Microsoft OS where Microsoft has done a good job minimizing the memory usage of the OS. Windows 8 is far less heavy than you might think and has turned into quite a lean OS.
SSD storage - The Surface Pro includes a full SSD rather than the eMMC memory used by the iPad and most/many tablets. This results in huge performance gains.
Core processor - This is pretty self explanatory. The processor is much more powerful, and even though the 4000 graphics aren't much compared to desktop cards, it should beat the iPad's graphics handily(I might be wrong on this and I'd like to see real benchmark comparisons).
I will disagree with you on the point of the Surface Pro performance. The performance of the Surface Pro should easily eclipse the performance of the iPad 4. My reasons are listed below.
Windows 8 - Windows 8 is the second straight Microsoft OS where Microsoft has done a good job minimizing the memory usage of the OS. Windows 8 is far less heavy than you might think and has turned into quite a lean OS.
SSD storage - The Surface Pro includes a full SSD rather than the eMMC memory used by the iPad and most/many tablets. This results in huge performance gains.
Core processor - This is pretty self explanatory. The processor is much more powerful, and even though the 4000 graphics aren't much compared to desktop cards, it should beat the iPad's graphics handily(I might be wrong on this and I'd like to see real benchmark comparisons).
Even if true (and I'm skeptical), you're making the wrong comparison. Windows RT is comparable to the iPad. Surface Pro has a Core processor, SSD, a keyboard, and costs $1,000 - just like the MacBook Air. THAT is the comparison you should be making.
Even if true (and I'm skeptical), you're making the wrong comparison. Windows RT is comparable to the iPad. Surface Pro has a Core processor, SSD, a keyboard, and costs $1,000 - just like the MacBook Air. THAT is the comparison you should be making.
I was just quoting what Solipsism had said. I would compare the 11" Air and the Pro.
Performance between the Surface RT and iPad doesn't end up well, especially in the performance arena. The last test I remember, only in boot time did the Surface RT come out on top. The rest favored the iPad 4 by a large margin, IIRC.
Edit: Whoops compared the wrong devices. I would wager that the Surface Pro and MacBook Air would be comparable in performance, depending on the processor you got in the Air.
The Pro will connect to Active Directory environments. The RT will not. There should be dozens upon dozens of people at companies with an all Windows Server set that blindly love MS, hate Apple and have plenty of money to spend.
sure, but so what? we know the RT is dead dead dead. so does every Windows laptop. my question is, exactly when/where/how is it superior to use compared to a good laptop in the same price range? what important third party software is optimized for it? 'cause otherwise, they'll suck.
Even if true (and I'm skeptical), you're making the wrong comparison. Windows RT is comparable to the iPad. Surface Pro has a Core processor, SSD, a keyboard, and costs $1,000 - just like the MacBook Air. THAT is the comparison you should be making.
I'm the one the initiated that comparison first with "It also uses a lot more resources which will likely make many tasks feel much slower than the iPad despite the use of a Core processor."'
runner777 makes many great points but we'll have to wait to see how the Win 8 UI reacts on that CPU.
sure, but so what? we know the RT is dead dead dead. so does every Windows laptop. my question is, exactly when/where/how is it superior to use compared to a good laptop in the same price range? what important third party software is optimized for it? 'cause otherwise, they'll suck.
The Surface Pro is x86_64. It runs Windows 8 Pro. I think it's doubtful it will succeed but for someone that needs a Win tablet to connect to AD then Surface RT won't cut it. You can run standard apps on it with a mouse and keyboard or use it as a tablet for basic computing. I don't think it's the best of both worlds but I can't speak for others and it does have clear benefit over the RT.
Edit: Whoops compared the wrong devices. I would wager that the Surface Pro and MacBook Air would be comparable in performance, depending on the processor you got in the Air.
I doubt it.
Several issues:
1. The reported specs for the Surface include clock speed UP TO 1.7 GHz. The MBA starts at 1.7 GHz. And the Surface only comes in i5 vs a choice of i5 or i7 for the MBA. And even the i5 in the Surface is the ultra-low voltage version.
2. There is no report yet of Surface offering more than 4 GB while the MBA offers 8 as an option.
3. In my experience, OS X is still faster on comparable hardware than Windows 8.
Until there's data one way or the other, no one knows, but I'd be shocked if the Surface Pro is as fast as an MBA other than a few very selected benchmarks (possibly startup time).
Hmmm, great idea. You've just suggested making a small laptop! My guess is that the next step will be to include a battery in the keyboard cover, just to give the Surface Pro usability beyond a couple of hours. Then they'll have a 4+ lb netbook sized laptop, which of course will just destroy any hope Apple has of selling MacBook Air 11" models...
"Laptop"... hmm. Yeah that has a nice ring to it. It conveys the basic idea: that you could use it anywhere if you put it on your lap. It would work for the Surface since Microsoft has never shown or advertised to Surface to work in portrait mode, so a hinged screen would suffice.
Comments
In their defense they did have the Surface Pro planned from the start.
the three new touch covers are supposedly 'limited editions'
given the suspected sales figures for the Surface RT to date, aren't all the touch covers limited editions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
I have this idea for putting the electronics and battery inside the keyboard, which would then be permanently attached to the screen, which could then be adjusted to any angle. It's the logical evolutionary path for the Surface.
Genius. That would eliminate the need for the kickstand as well.
If you can only have one for the Holidays I think the RT is the way to go. The price is nearly half that of the Pro and corporations that want to invest in the MS Surface would likely also need the Pro for AD and probably wouldn't be able to buy them until the new fiscal year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
I have this idea for putting the electronics and battery inside the keyboard, which would then be permanently attached to the screen, which could then be adjusted to any angle. It's the logical evolutionary path for the Surface.
Hmmm, great idea. You've just suggested making a small laptop! My guess is that the next step will be to include a battery in the keyboard cover, just to give the Surface Pro usability beyond a couple of hours. Then they'll have a 4+ lb netbook sized laptop, which of course will just destroy any hope Apple has of selling MacBook Air 11" models...
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
How about a manual on how to use the Surface that converts into a table so you can actually use it. Like this:
Like Cosmo Kramer's coffee table book that turned into a coffee table?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
RIP.
More like, "burn in hell".
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
1) That's for the Surface RT which uses the stripped down version of the OS. Surface Pro uses the full Windows 8 build thus uses a lot more space. It also uses a lot more resources which will likely make many tasks feel much slower than the iPad despite the use of a Core processor.
The lost space can be attributed to two things, the rather heavy OS (in disk usage anyway), and the inclusion of a fairly feature complete version of desktop Office 2013.
While most folks think Windows RT is a stripped-down version of Windows, it really isn't. It's actually a rather complete, clean port of Windows to the ARM architecture. The heavy disk space use for the install is one of the things that exposes this. The main difference between Windows 8 and Windows RT, other than the obvious difference of CPU architecture, is that RT is simply restricted from running non-Microsoft desktop apps.
It should be noted that maybe Microsoft should have stripped down RT to just the Metro interface. I've gone back and forth on it, but right now I think maybe they should have left out the desktop despite its usefulness and leaving behind just the 'new' Windows.
I will disagree with you on the point of the Surface Pro performance. The performance of the Surface Pro should easily eclipse the performance of the iPad 4. My reasons are listed below.
Windows 8 - Windows 8 is the second straight Microsoft OS where Microsoft has done a good job minimizing the memory usage of the OS. Windows 8 is far less heavy than you might think and has turned into quite a lean OS.
SSD storage - The Surface Pro includes a full SSD rather than the eMMC memory used by the iPad and most/many tablets. This results in huge performance gains.
Core processor - This is pretty self explanatory. The processor is much more powerful, and even though the 4000 graphics aren't much compared to desktop cards, it should beat the iPad's graphics handily(I might be wrong on this and I'd like to see real benchmark comparisons).
the portability of a tablet that needs a keyboard, a mouse, and a stylus.
Even if true (and I'm skeptical), you're making the wrong comparison. Windows RT is comparable to the iPad. Surface Pro has a Core processor, SSD, a keyboard, and costs $1,000 - just like the MacBook Air. THAT is the comparison you should be making.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Even if true (and I'm skeptical), you're making the wrong comparison. Windows RT is comparable to the iPad. Surface Pro has a Core processor, SSD, a keyboard, and costs $1,000 - just like the MacBook Air. THAT is the comparison you should be making.
I was just quoting what Solipsism had said. I would compare the 11" Air and the Pro.
Performance between the Surface RT and iPad doesn't end up well, especially in the performance arena. The last test I remember, only in boot time did the Surface RT come out on top. The rest favored the iPad 4 by a large margin, IIRC.
Edit: Whoops compared the wrong devices. I would wager that the Surface Pro and MacBook Air would be comparable in performance, depending on the processor you got in the Air.
Originally Posted by pauldfullerton
I am confused! Could someone please provide a simple table that summarises all the tablet options offered by Microsoft? Thanks!
By or of?
By is summarized thus.
Of, you'd have to go to all the other manufacturers' websites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
The Pro will connect to Active Directory environments. The RT will not. There should be dozens upon dozens of people at companies with an all Windows Server set that blindly love MS, hate Apple and have plenty of money to spend.
sure, but so what? we know the RT is dead dead dead. so does every Windows laptop. my question is, exactly when/where/how is it superior to use compared to a good laptop in the same price range? what important third party software is optimized for it? 'cause otherwise, they'll suck.
I'm the one the initiated that comparison first with "It also uses a lot more resources which will likely make many tasks feel much slower than the iPad despite the use of a Core processor."'
runner777 makes many great points but we'll have to wait to see how the Win 8 UI reacts on that CPU.
The Surface Pro is x86_64. It runs Windows 8 Pro. I think it's doubtful it will succeed but for someone that needs a Win tablet to connect to AD then Surface RT won't cut it. You can run standard apps on it with a mouse and keyboard or use it as a tablet for basic computing. I don't think it's the best of both worlds but I can't speak for others and it does have clear benefit over the RT.
I doubt it.
Several issues:
1. The reported specs for the Surface include clock speed UP TO 1.7 GHz. The MBA starts at 1.7 GHz. And the Surface only comes in i5 vs a choice of i5 or i7 for the MBA. And even the i5 in the Surface is the ultra-low voltage version.
2. There is no report yet of Surface offering more than 4 GB while the MBA offers 8 as an option.
3. In my experience, OS X is still faster on comparable hardware than Windows 8.
Until there's data one way or the other, no one knows, but I'd be shocked if the Surface Pro is as fast as an MBA other than a few very selected benchmarks (possibly startup time).
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgregory1
Hmmm, great idea. You've just suggested making a small laptop! My guess is that the next step will be to include a battery in the keyboard cover, just to give the Surface Pro usability beyond a couple of hours. Then they'll have a 4+ lb netbook sized laptop, which of course will just destroy any hope Apple has of selling MacBook Air 11" models...
"Laptop"... hmm. Yeah that has a nice ring to it. It conveys the basic idea: that you could use it anywhere if you put it on your lap. It would work for the Surface since Microsoft has never shown or advertised to Surface to work in portrait mode, so a hinged screen would suffice.