Microsoft launching Surface Pro, expanding Surface RT lineup on Feb. 9

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  • Reply 61 of 82
    relic wrote: »
    Why, though I think the build quality is pretty good the battery life is just horrible. You will be lucky to get 4 hours, I would highly recommend you looking at the Lenovo Thinkpad 2. It's one of the best tablets I have ever used, although it only has an Atom CPU the system is fast, real fast. Not to mention that we're getting about 9 hours consistently with ours.

    The Lenovo has an Atom CPU so it is more of a netbook level device surely? A nice netbook for sure that will do most things, but the i5/i7 in the Surface is better for higher end apps.

    9 hours is good for a PC tablet though. As you say, the battery life is the worst thing on the Surface Pro, but until people have them we won't know real world runtimes.
  • Reply 62 of 82
    chabigchabig Posts: 641member


    Wedge Touch Mouse Surface Edition....LOL!!

  • Reply 63 of 82
    runner7775 wrote: »
    While most folks think Windows RT is a stripped-down version of Windows, it really isn't. It's actually a rather complete, clean port of Windows to the ARM architecture.

    Windows. Minus legacy X86 compatibility. Ported to ARM. With minimal storage requirements. Wasn't that Windows CE?
  • Reply 64 of 82

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post





    Windows. Minus legacy X86 compatibility. Ported to ARM. With minimal storage requirements. Wasn't that Windows CE?


     


    Windows CE is a completely different kernel. Windows RT is the NT kernel ported to ARM. Apparently, many apps require little more than a recompile for ARM to run on the Windows RT desktop(found out this via the guys who 'jailbroke' Windows RT). But, like it's been mentioned before, Windows RT simply wont allow them to run without modifying the system.


     


    Edit: Fixed single quotes.

  • Reply 65 of 82
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,399member


    Surface Pro DOA. Let it be buried next to its RT brother. Let's never speak of this again.

  • Reply 66 of 82

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post





    1. I think they'll sell a million overnight. ...


     


    How many Microsoft employees are there?

  • Reply 67 of 82
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    don108 wrote: »
    ALthough listed as 64 Gigs, the Surface RT actually only has 48 Gigs available. 16 Gigs are for the RT OS. They're being sued over this. See this C/Net article: http://goo.gl/hsx4r

    And when you buy any computer, it doesn't come with part of storage used by OS and included software?

    As long as MS is advertising size of included storage, not size of available storage, I don't think they are in real trouble.
  • Reply 68 of 82
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    You don't know what you are talking about.

    After 1 year windows 8 (if everything is enabled) will eat more than 40gigs alone.

    And that is based on what?

    This very machine I'm typing this on had Windows 7 Enterprise from 2009, upgraded to Windows 8 Enterprise in September 2012. No clean installs in-between. That is over 3 years of updates, patches etc. plus leftovers an upgrade must have created. Windows folder is 24.5 GB.
  • Reply 69 of 82
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Evilution View Post


    Surface Pro DOA. Let it be buried next to its RT brother. Let's never speak of this again.



     


     


    Why, it's a good machine. Fast, good build quality, very thin for a i7 machine, the battery could be better. These machines can be very helpful to certain professionals, until Apple makes a OSX tablet, these Windows 8 tablets are really the only solution for those who want to run full desktop apps on a tablet. Have you seen any of the Adobe apps running on this thing or maybe even Cubase, it looks pretty awesome. You can't do everything on a iPad, although a majority of the people on this forum seem to think so.

  • Reply 70 of 82
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    relic wrote: »

    Why, it's a good machine. Fast, good build quality, very thin for a i7 machine and very fast. These machines can be very helpful to certain professionals, until Apple makes a OSX tablet, these Windows 8 tablets are really the only solution for those who want to run full desktop apps on a tablet. Have you seen any of the Adobe apps running on this thing or maybe even Cubase, it looks pretty awesome. You can't do everything on a iPad, although a majority of the people on this forum seem to think so.

    1) Core-i5.

    2) In a previous post you commented on poor battery life which you said was 4 hours but now you are arguing that it's a good machine he should buy?
  • Reply 71 of 82
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post





    And that is based on what?



    This very machine I'm typing this on had Windows 7 Enterprise from 2009, upgraded to Windows 8 Enterprise in September 2012. No clean installs in-between. That is over 3 years of updates, patches etc. plus leftovers an upgrade must have created. Windows folder is 24.5 GB.


    I would defiantly like to see Windows 8 streamed line a lot more though, I mean what the hell is taking up so much room. I just installed CentOS 6.1 the other day on my old Lenovo Thinkpad X61s and that only took up 2.2GB, even after I installed Wine with Office 2007 and the rest of my apps it was still under 4GB.

  • Reply 72 of 82
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    relic wrote: »
    I would defiantly like to see Windows 8 streamed line a lot more though, I mean what the hell is taking up so much room. I just installed CentOS 6.1 the other day on my old Lenovo Thinkpad X61s and that only took up 2.2GB, even after I installed Wine with Office 2007 and the rest of my apps it was still under 4GB.

    I hear you! Clean install of the same Windows 8 Enterprise on my mate's PC is still taking almost 20GB of space. That is a lot of space for OS... mind you, this is 8 Enterprise 64-bit; it should take some more space than lesser versions of 8, I'd expect... but however you spin it, humongous it is.
  • Reply 73 of 82
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    solipsismx wrote: »
    1) Core-i5.

    i5 is fast enough for many things ARM SoC are not. It is still a question what is the speed of that i5, but still. I'm running Lightroom on 3 years old ThinkPad with 2.4GHz i5 first gen., and it crunches 6MP RAW files instantly, while it hesitates a bit for 20MP RAW files... but no existing ARM tablet would come close to that.
    2) In a previous post you commented on poor battery life which you said was 4 hours but now you are arguing that it's a good machine he should buy?

    A lot of Windows laptops have sub-4hr battery life. Of course 4hr does not give you same autonomy as 10 hour ARM tablets, but if I'd need more power and/or desktop software compatibility in tablet form factor, this would be acceptable compromise for me.
  • Reply 74 of 82
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    1) Core-i5.



    2) In a previous post you commented on poor battery life which you said was 4 hours but now you are arguing that it's a good machine he should buy?


    I didn't recommend him buying one I just said it isn't DOA or a piece of garbage. It's a very fast well built tablet. I did say the battery life is poor though but I just read that one of the main reasons behind the delays is that Microsoft was holding out for the 7 watt version of the i5 which could mean 7 - 8 hours of battery. If this is the case the Surface Pro could turn out to be one heck of a machine. I should have done more research on the subject instead of just repeating what others wrote before me.  A fault a lot of us seem to be doing more frequently, condemning something that we haven't personally tried ourselves simply because it's manufactured by a competitor.


     


    When I tried Windows 8 Consumer Preview last August I to thought it was a horrible OS, I didn't get it. My feelings towards Windows 8 now however have completely changed as I now own one and use another from work, it really is a good tablet OS. I'm not sure I would want a desktop computer with it on there though, especially when OSX is still kicking about.

  • Reply 75 of 82
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post





    i5 is fast enough for many things ARM SoC are not. It is still a question what is the speed of that i5, but still. I'm running Lightroom on 3 years old ThinkPad with 2.4GHz i5 first gen., and it crunches 6MP RAW files instantly, while it hesitates a bit for 20MP RAW files... but no existing ARM tablet would come close to that.

    A lot of Windows laptops have sub-4hr battery life. Of course 4hr does not give you same autonomy as 10 hour ARM tablets, but if I'd need more power and/or desktop software compatibility in tablet form factor, this would be acceptable compromise for me.


    Oh yeah an i5 will defiantly be fast enough for anything you want to do with it, please let us know how it is when you finally get it. I am very curious, are you going to purchase it from the Microsoft Store, if so could you compare the size and weight of it with the Lenovo version, thanks.

  • Reply 76 of 82


    I'd take something like the Asus Taichi or Lenovo X1 Carbon with touch over the Surface.  

  • Reply 77 of 82


    1st off im neutral on tablets since i dont own any and not planning to yet. I am intrigued by gadgets and the engineering within however. I love perusing specs..


     


    So let me start by opening some eyes on narrow minded comments about being too expensive and lacking too much HD space.


     


    1st you must separate a surface pro from the pricing of a tablet since it is a fully functioning pc.


    as far as storage, yes its like 32 GB free on a 64GB pro. BUT you must remember this is a windows pc meaning: the bad, windows takes a lot of space, and the good, it has a usb port compatible with any external windows hd on the market, and it has a micro sd card allowing flash hd space of 64 GB for the cost of a sd card, 64GB go for about $60. 2nd look at the cost for GB upgrades between microsoft and apple, apple charges $100 to upgrade 16GB to a 32GB from a 16GB, and another $100 to upgrade 32GB to a 64, so you are paying $200 more from the base system just for


    48GB of more hd space... in all standards this is the most expensive storage memory you can find :).


     


    now the cons of surface pro: its thicker which is valid point. The thickness(and weight) is similar to the HP touchpad if you had a chance to see those. The battery life is shorter (more comparable to that of a laptop without the extended battery). and since its a fully function windows laptop it will be susceptible to the save viruses.


     


    the overall decision shouldnt be based on do you want an apple pad or a ms pad, but do you want a touchpad (apple or android, who different comparison) or an ultrabook in the form factor of a touchpad. (ultrabook = laptap without the built in dvd drive in case you didnt know the difference)


     


    I see valid argument for the MS pro , specially the 128 GB version since a) you pay $100 for an additional 64GB of space(all free) combined with $60 for a 64 GB flash card, youre getting a pleasant 192GB storage space with approx 40ish used, leaving approx 150GB free. the surface rt, i see less reason, is fairly expensive for a touchpach and its not an ultrabook and the memory is a bit lacking. the plus though is it has full ms office, and so if youre job consists of mostly office documents it could still be used as a work tablet.

  • Reply 78 of 82


    Welcome.


     



    Originally Posted by presto nee View Post

    ..the good, it has a usb port compatible with any external windows hd on the market…


     


    Thing is, whether this is actually good anymore is debatable.


     


    I mean, either you're powering a 2.5" drive from the tablet itself, cutting further into its dismal battery life, or you're plugged into the wall with a 3.5" drive. Not really the most portable of solutions. Not to mention having to carry around the drive.





    the overall decision shouldnt be based on do you want an apple pad or a ms pad, but do you want a touchpad (apple or android, who different comparison) or an ultrabook in the form factor of a touchpad. (ultrabook = laptap without the built in dvd drive in case you didnt know the difference)



     


    No, a tablet isn't an ultrabook. Is it even possible to use the Surface on one's lap?


     


    Off-topic, but do you know who invented ultrabooks?





    I see valid argument for the MS pro , specially the 128 GB version since a) you pay $100 for an additional 64GB of space(all free) combined with $60 for a 64 GB flash card, youre getting a pleasant 192GB storage space with approx 40ish used, leaving approx 150GB free.



     


    Does it register as a single volume? Oh, I suppose not, since it's just regular desktop Windows, huh. Though I bet Windows RT doesn't do that, either. 

  • Reply 79 of 82


    I thought apple did but had to check, turns out ti was intel, they seem to have their fingers in everything..


     


    I am not anti apple, I think the 1st ipad,ipod, iphone revolutionized those industries. PC not so much(but i think it was brilliant plan to switch the naming from macintosh to mac)


     


    ultrabook definition does not depend upon its physical appearance but its capabilities, have you ever seen someone hold one up liek a book with the hinge vertical? no :)


    and yes an ultrabook is a laptop without a cd drive (optical drive), they did this for two reasons, slim down the profile(why the call it ultra) and reduce costs.


     


    I am not sure I understand your impact of separate volumes. would you expect to have a single program over say 50GB? if so it would be very difficult to place this on any tablet.


     


    and I think you are confused that the surface is not a typical tablet, it does not use its usb to charge like a phone would, it has a separate charging point like all laptops and ultrabooks would.


     


    -Update- Misread your HD comment, yes i agree it would further cut in on the on time if not plugged in, Id only see using ext hd as part of a docking station at the home or office.


     


    so yes you can keep it on the wall charger while running a hd drive. I agree you do not want to carry around drives even though there are drives meant for just that reason (WD Passport). And yes I think its kind of silly to place it in laptop mode on your lap. ( i feel this way about all laptops, and never use one on a lap, only a table) I would more prefer to use it as a tablet on a lap and use its onscreen keyboard or the pen. but really when is typing on a lap without a table ever comfortable?

  • Reply 80 of 82
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    prestonee wrote: »
    I am not anti apple, I think the 1st ipad,ipod, iphone revolutionized those industries. PC not so much(but i think it was brilliant plan to switch the naming from macintosh to mac)

    Apple has innovated more in the PC market than in any other market. Just look at the Apple I to the Lisa to the Mac and to all the changes along the way that rest of the industry has played catch up with for decades. Now we have the MBA popularly which created the Ultrabook brand and Retina MBPs that will undoubtedly cause MS and WinPC vendors to play follow the leader once again.
    ultrabook definition does not depend upon its physical appearance but its capabilities, have you ever seen someone hold one up liek a book with the hinge vertical? no :)
    and yes an ultrabook is a laptop without a cd drive (optical drive), they did this for two reasons, slim down the profile(why the call it ultra) and reduce costs.

    It's an Intel brand which is defined by Intel. At this time there is no requirement for the absence of an ODD for it to be an Ultrabook it's just that the maximum volume plus the minimum batter life as well as this being past 2010 means that an ODD is neither likely nor desired.

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