Didn't the 3G and 3GS already have a polycarbonate back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Yep. But I never felt Jobs and Ive really loved that phone design. Felt like a compromise until they could get what they really wanted - iPhone 4.
This is why I don't believe we'll see a plastic polycarbonate case on the iPhone Mini. I think we'll still see aluminum, much like what we see on the iPods.
I'm surprised Apple doesn't call iOS, iOS X 10.1, .2, .3., .4, .5, .6, .7, .8, etc. just like they do for the desktop. One is OS X for the desktop, the other is iOS X for mobile devices. Just sayin....
That doesn't make sense to me. I understand what you're saying, but the software that ran on the first iPhone was iPhone OS, being derived from OSX. So yeah, a first version for a first product. (Just like there never was a iPhone 1.)
What I don't understand is that after OSX we got 10.0 instead of OS 11. It's all marketing; OS (roman) X just looks better. Heck, my boot drive is called X, because that 'marks the spot'.
They can't have an "iPhone +"; they have AppleCare+ and people will think that only applies to that model.
JUST DROP THE FRICKING NUMBERS. I was right in the first place. When the 10th iPhone (iPhone 7) is released with iOS 10… but then again the OS' probably won't still be split by then…
Actually I disagree. I honestly believe the iPhone 5 is extremely close (if not exactly) to the design Jobs & Ive actually wanted.
Could be. But 3G/GS was not. I don't see them going back to plastic unless they have to reach a certain price point and can only reach it by using plastic.
Why would Apple want to compete with smaller margins? They will keep with FREE older generation phones. They might, maybe, give the carrier a pass with the lowest model, but never release a phone designed for the cheaper markets.
Sorry, the real question is, why do people insist Apple release a cheaper phone?
Why would Apple want to compete with smaller margins? They will keep with FREE older generation phones. They might, maybe, give the carrier a pass with the lowest model, but never release a phone designed for the cheaper markets.
Sorry, the real question is, why do people insist Apple release a cheaper phone?
Likewise no one was making a profit on 7 inch tablets, but that didnt stop Apple from making an iPad Mini.
Just because the other manufacturers can't figure out how to make a profit from sub-$500 smart phones doesn't mean Apple won't be able to.
If Apple makes a lower cost iPhone they are going to do it right without hurting their margins.
Why would Apple want to compete with smaller margins? They will keep with FREE older generation phones. They might, maybe, give the carrier a pass with the lowest model, but never release a phone designed for the cheaper markets.
Sorry, the real question is, why do people insist Apple release a cheaper phone?
I suspect Apple will always continue to have a premium phone and a cheaper phone. In most cases, the 'cheaper phone' will be the previous generation. It's possible that they might go even further and release a SLIGHTLY cheaper phone that was designed that way, but not in the $99-149 range that the analysts are begging for. There would be too many compromises.
Why would Apple want to compete with smaller margins? They will keep with FREE older generation phones. They might, maybe, give the carrier a pass with the lowest model, but never release a phone designed for the cheaper markets.
Sorry, the real question is, why do people insist Apple release a cheaper phone?
There are no FREE older models for around 75% of the world. That is what you are missing. The iPhone 4 is free on contract with a 2 year contract in America, but might cost Europeans, Asian, or Latin Americans over $500. They need a phone to compete in the world market, not just in the land of contract subsidies which is but a minority.
Yep. But I never felt Jobs and Ive really loved that phone design. Felt like a compromise until they could get what they really wanted - iPhone 4.
I agree. The white plastic MacBook always felt like that to me also. Once they went unibody, it always felt like a placeholder wherein the material is just being used because of costs. Especially when they made it "unibody carbonate."
This is out of left field but ... everyone assumes when polycarbonate is mentioned that it will be like an iPhone 3Gs, but they could instead make it exactly the same as an iPhone 5 but carve the back out of a plastic block instead of an aluminium one. It would make for a phone that looks a lot like an iPhone 5, comes in colours, is even *lighter*, and wouldn't need a case. If it had a plastic front-piece instead of gorilla glass it would be almost indestructible. It would bounce when you dropped it instead of shattering. It might even float.
Everyone knows the old plastic phones have a way of hanging around for a lot longer than the more precious models if the internals are up to snuff, despite being scarred and scratched. I'd love to see Apple make a cheap, almost indestructible off-contract phone like that. Knowing Apple they'd make the absolute *best* cheap-ass phone out there. I'm sure it would be a legend if it ever happens.
Likewise no one was making a profit on 7 inch tablets, but that didnt stop Apple from making an iPad Mini.
Just because the other manufacturers can't figure out how to make a profit from sub-$500 smart phones doesn't mean Apple won't be able to.
If Apple makes a lower cost iPhone they are going to do it right without hurting their margins.
I expect to see liquid metal in the iPhone 6. Not plastic. Actually I don't think we're going to see the 6 this year as this rumor says.
Correct, and a good idea. I forgot about Liquid Metal. But they are going to pull off something, technology-wise. They always innovate, it's just that some people can't perceive what they do as innovation. Unless it's something on the package level that they can see, and even then sometimes not, as with the new iMacs . . .
They can't have an "iPhone +"; they have AppleCare+ and people will think that only applies to that model.
JUST DROP THE FRICKING NUMBERS. I was right in the first place. When the 10th iPhone (iPhone 7) is released with iOS 10… but then again the OS' probably won't still be split by then…
I'm not sure if this is agreeing with you or disagreeing, since I'm not sure what that ellipsis is doing up there, but the confusion is not in the numbers, it's in selling multiple generations of a product at the same time. This is what people find seriously confusing and it's not just the dummies either. How could this *not* be confusing? I get locked into talks like with groups all day sometimes and most people in the room get confused at one point over which version of the iPad we are talking about.
We sometimes talk about deploying this or that iPad version in this or that situation/environment and invariably someone has to pop over to Apple's website in the middle of the discussion to remind themselves of which version we are actually talking about and what features it has. Then people start looking at the info on the screen and begin arguing over which is which. Most people aren't even sure which version they personally have in their hands at this point. Then someone always pops up with "Wait a minute, I just bought this iPad a little while ago, there are three generations/types listed on the website, but none of them are mine? What's going on?"
It's a pretty ridiculous strategy from the consumer point of view even though I can see why they do it. It makes more sense to me to go back to having one version of each product available, and last years model in the refurbished section. Period. Done. If they need to do cheap, it makes more sense to me to make a cheap plastic phone. iPads are cheap enough that I don't see the need for any "low cost" option at all.
Why would Apple want to compete with smaller margins? They will keep with FREE older generation phones. They might, maybe, give the carrier a pass with the lowest model, but never release a phone designed for the cheaper markets.
Sorry, the real question is, why do people insist Apple release a cheaper phone?
No, the real question is, why do people not understand that "Free phones" are not free?
Let's say I get a "free" iphone on AT&T. That's $90 per month for the plan I used, so $2160 over the 2 year contract period.
Now, compare that to my StraightTalk plan - which actually provides better service (unlimited everything). $45 per month - or $1080 over 2 years.
No, the real question is, why do people not understand that "Free phones" are not free?
Let's say I get a "free" iphone on AT&T. That's $90 per month for the plan I used, so $2160 over the 2 year contract period.
Now, compare that to my StraightTalk plan - which actually provides better service (unlimited everything). $45 per month - or $1080 over 2 years.
So your "free" iPhone costs me $1080.
Ah, no.
Straight Talk does not provide LTE data. Furthermore it is not unlimited everything. There is a 2 GB monthly data limit. Also it does not support MMS or visual voicemail.
I think ST is a great service but you are getting superior features with Verizon or AT&T.
No, the real question is, why do people not understand that "Free phones" are not free?
Let's say I get a "free" iphone on AT&T. That's $90 per month for the plan I used, so $2160 over the 2 year contract period.
Now, compare that to my StraightTalk plan - which actually provides better service (unlimited everything). $45 per month - or $1080 over 2 years.
So your "free" iPhone costs me $1080.
Add in the cost of the phone itself for a pre-paid like straight talk as well which might bring total cost up by another $450 or so if you don't already own your phone. But you are correct, "free" phones are very expensive. Then consider that about 75% of the planet use the pre-paid model with no phone subsidies at all. Selling a two year old iPhone 4 with only 8GB for $450 in that market is not a viable long term solution.
I dunno, you know. I'm not saying it'll be identical code across both sets, but…
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
…it's in selling multiple generations of a product at the same time. This is what people find seriously confusing and it's not just the dummies either.
There doesn't seem to be much problem with selling the iPad 2 alongside the iPad.
How could this *not* be confusing?
"So that's the new one?"
"No, that's the new one."
"Oh, okay."
I get locked into talks like with groups all day sometimes and most people in the room get confused at one point over which version of the iPad we are talking about.
I don't get that. Just use colloquialisms. "iPads 1, 2, 3, and 4; they don't sell 1 or 3 anymore." If they had dropped the numbers, you'd be talking about deploying an "iPad" in a situation. You'd pick based on your hardware requirements, and then it's no different from picking out a Mac and BTOing it. Is that confusing?
Originally Posted by blairh
Also it does not support MMS…
Well, this, at least, is wrong. jragosta can confirm that and can probably say if you're wrong about data and VV.
Straight Talk does not provide LTE data. Furthermore it is not unlimited everything. There is a 2 GB monthly data limit. Also it does not support MMS or visual voicemail.
I think ST is a great service but you are getting superior features with Verizon or AT&T.
There is a $30 per month plan that's limited to 30 MB per month, so if your needs are limited, you could save even more.
2. It most certainly does support MMS - I use it all the time. Granted, some people find that they have to jump through hoops to set it up, but to save $1,000, it's worth it.
3. Visual voicemail is not supported natively, but there are plenty of third party apps that offer it for a couple of bucks.
The only thing you're correct about is that it doesn't support LTE at this time. That is the one limitation - and certainly not worth over $1,000 to me. I suspect that it will be added at some time in the future, anyway.
This is out of left field but ... everyone assumes when polycarbonate is mentioned that it will be like an iPhone 3Gs, but they could instead make it exactly the same as an iPhone 5 but carve the back out of a plastic block instead of an aluminium one. It would make for a phone that looks a lot like an iPhone 5, comes in colours, is even *lighter*, and wouldn't need a case. If it had a plastic front-piece instead of gorilla glass it would be almost indestructible. It would bounce when you dropped it instead of shattering. It might even float.
I like this idea.
Unibody polycarbonate akin to the MacBook would keep the iPhone thin as well, and not bulbous like the 3G/3GS.
There is a $30 per month plan that's limited to 30 MB per month, so if your needs are limited, you could save even more.
2. It most certainly does support MMS - I use it all the time. Granted, some people find that they have to jump through hoops to set it up, but to save $1,000, it's worth it.
3. Visual voicemail is not supported natively, but there are plenty of third party apps that offer it for a couple of bucks.
The only thing you're correct about is that it doesn't support LTE at this time. That is the one limitation - and certainly not worth over $1,000 to me. I suspect that it will be added at some time in the future, anyway.
Have you gone over 2GB of data on ST recently? My friend did and they throttled him to a speed so slow that even getting email took ages. He uses T-Mobile on ST. From just a quick check they do seem to have a 2GB limit at least for full speed possibly just for T-Mo users. But since I believe Straight Talk uses 3 of the 4 major carriers as an MVNO, maybe there is some differences depending on which carrier you use? Maybe some are more generous than others. Verizon is only used for the feature phones and T-Mobile and Sprint are used for the smart phones.
There are no FREE older models for around 75% of the world. That is what you are missing. The iPhone 4 is free on contract with a 2 year contract in America, but might cost Europeans, Asian, or Latin Americans over $500. They need a phone to compete in the world market, not just in the land of contract subsidies which is but a minority.
I agree with this. I can offer a first hand report on Latin America; last year I was seeing a lot of older jail broken iPhones, however this year the large majority of the young professionals are using Samsung big screen phones. Not sure why the change in such a short period of time but the trend is quite noticeable. I love having my iPhone 4 officially unlocked by AT&T for use abroad. Works like a charm with a pay as you go plan. No more crappy feature phones just for local sim card.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
Didn't the 3G and 3GS already have a polycarbonate back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Yep. But I never felt Jobs and Ive really loved that phone design. Felt like a compromise until they could get what they really wanted - iPhone 4.
This is why I don't believe we'll see a plastic polycarbonate case on the iPhone Mini. I think we'll still see aluminum, much like what we see on the iPods.
That doesn't make sense to me. I understand what you're saying, but the software that ran on the first iPhone was iPhone OS, being derived from OSX. So yeah, a first version for a first product. (Just like there never was a iPhone 1.)
What I don't understand is that after OSX we got 10.0 instead of OS 11. It's all marketing; OS (roman) X just looks better. Heck, my boot drive is called X, because that 'marks the spot'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
And so it begins. Again.
They can't have an "iPhone +"; they have AppleCare+ and people will think that only applies to that model.
JUST DROP THE FRICKING NUMBERS. I was right in the first place. When the 10th iPhone (iPhone 7) is released with iOS 10… but then again the OS' probably won't still be split by then…
The OS will always be split.
I have just one word for you: IGZO.
Oh, and maybe plastic, in the case of the 6.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/01/26/apple-to-focus-on-software-growth-as-samsung-warns-of-shrinking-hardware-profits
Why would Apple want to compete with smaller margins? They will keep with FREE older generation phones. They might, maybe, give the carrier a pass with the lowest model, but never release a phone designed for the cheaper markets.
Sorry, the real question is, why do people insist Apple release a cheaper phone?
Likewise no one was making a profit on 7 inch tablets, but that didnt stop Apple from making an iPad Mini.
Just because the other manufacturers can't figure out how to make a profit from sub-$500 smart phones doesn't mean Apple won't be able to.
If Apple makes a lower cost iPhone they are going to do it right without hurting their margins.
I expect to see liquid metal in the iPhone 6. Not plastic. Actually I don't think we're going to see the 6 this year as this rumor says.
I suspect Apple will always continue to have a premium phone and a cheaper phone. In most cases, the 'cheaper phone' will be the previous generation. It's possible that they might go even further and release a SLIGHTLY cheaper phone that was designed that way, but not in the $99-149 range that the analysts are begging for. There would be too many compromises.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz
Again, I do not see a cheaper phone being released.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/01/26/apple-to-focus-on-software-growth-as-samsung-warns-of-shrinking-hardware-profits
Why would Apple want to compete with smaller margins? They will keep with FREE older generation phones. They might, maybe, give the carrier a pass with the lowest model, but never release a phone designed for the cheaper markets.
Sorry, the real question is, why do people insist Apple release a cheaper phone?
There are no FREE older models for around 75% of the world. That is what you are missing. The iPhone 4 is free on contract with a 2 year contract in America, but might cost Europeans, Asian, or Latin Americans over $500. They need a phone to compete in the world market, not just in the land of contract subsidies which is but a minority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Yep. But I never felt Jobs and Ive really loved that phone design. Felt like a compromise until they could get what they really wanted - iPhone 4.
I agree. The white plastic MacBook always felt like that to me also. Once they went unibody, it always felt like a placeholder wherein the material is just being used because of costs. Especially when they made it "unibody carbonate."
This is out of left field but ... everyone assumes when polycarbonate is mentioned that it will be like an iPhone 3Gs, but they could instead make it exactly the same as an iPhone 5 but carve the back out of a plastic block instead of an aluminium one. It would make for a phone that looks a lot like an iPhone 5, comes in colours, is even *lighter*, and wouldn't need a case. If it had a plastic front-piece instead of gorilla glass it would be almost indestructible. It would bounce when you dropped it instead of shattering. It might even float.
Everyone knows the old plastic phones have a way of hanging around for a lot longer than the more precious models if the internals are up to snuff, despite being scarred and scratched. I'd love to see Apple make a cheap, almost indestructible off-contract phone like that. Knowing Apple they'd make the absolute *best* cheap-ass phone out there. I'm sure it would be a legend if it ever happens.
Correct, and a good idea. I forgot about Liquid Metal. But they are going to pull off something, technology-wise. They always innovate, it's just that some people can't perceive what they do as innovation. Unless it's something on the package level that they can see, and even then sometimes not, as with the new iMacs . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
And so it begins. Again.
They can't have an "iPhone +"; they have AppleCare+ and people will think that only applies to that model.
JUST DROP THE FRICKING NUMBERS. I was right in the first place. When the 10th iPhone (iPhone 7) is released with iOS 10… but then again the OS' probably won't still be split by then…
I'm not sure if this is agreeing with you or disagreeing, since I'm not sure what that ellipsis is doing up there, but the confusion is not in the numbers, it's in selling multiple generations of a product at the same time. This is what people find seriously confusing and it's not just the dummies either. How could this *not* be confusing? I get locked into talks like with groups all day sometimes and most people in the room get confused at one point over which version of the iPad we are talking about.
We sometimes talk about deploying this or that iPad version in this or that situation/environment and invariably someone has to pop over to Apple's website in the middle of the discussion to remind themselves of which version we are actually talking about and what features it has. Then people start looking at the info on the screen and begin arguing over which is which. Most people aren't even sure which version they personally have in their hands at this point. Then someone always pops up with "Wait a minute, I just bought this iPad a little while ago, there are three generations/types listed on the website, but none of them are mine? What's going on?"
It's a pretty ridiculous strategy from the consumer point of view even though I can see why they do it. It makes more sense to me to go back to having one version of each product available, and last years model in the refurbished section. Period. Done. If they need to do cheap, it makes more sense to me to make a cheap plastic phone. iPads are cheap enough that I don't see the need for any "low cost" option at all.
No, the real question is, why do people not understand that "Free phones" are not free?
Let's say I get a "free" iphone on AT&T. That's $90 per month for the plan I used, so $2160 over the 2 year contract period.
Now, compare that to my StraightTalk plan - which actually provides better service (unlimited everything). $45 per month - or $1080 over 2 years.
So your "free" iPhone costs me $1080.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
No, the real question is, why do people not understand that "Free phones" are not free?
Let's say I get a "free" iphone on AT&T. That's $90 per month for the plan I used, so $2160 over the 2 year contract period.
Now, compare that to my StraightTalk plan - which actually provides better service (unlimited everything). $45 per month - or $1080 over 2 years.
So your "free" iPhone costs me $1080.
Ah, no.
Straight Talk does not provide LTE data. Furthermore it is not unlimited everything. There is a 2 GB monthly data limit. Also it does not support MMS or visual voicemail.
I think ST is a great service but you are getting superior features with Verizon or AT&T.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
No, the real question is, why do people not understand that "Free phones" are not free?
Let's say I get a "free" iphone on AT&T. That's $90 per month for the plan I used, so $2160 over the 2 year contract period.
Now, compare that to my StraightTalk plan - which actually provides better service (unlimited everything). $45 per month - or $1080 over 2 years.
So your "free" iPhone costs me $1080.
Add in the cost of the phone itself for a pre-paid like straight talk as well which might bring total cost up by another $450 or so if you don't already own your phone. But you are correct, "free" phones are very expensive. Then consider that about 75% of the planet use the pre-paid model with no phone subsidies at all. Selling a two year old iPhone 4 with only 8GB for $450 in that market is not a viable long term solution.
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
The OS will always be split.
I dunno, you know. I'm not saying it'll be identical code across both sets, but…
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
…it's in selling multiple generations of a product at the same time. This is what people find seriously confusing and it's not just the dummies either.
There doesn't seem to be much problem with selling the iPad 2 alongside the iPad.
How could this *not* be confusing?
"So that's the new one?"
"No, that's the new one."
"Oh, okay."
I get locked into talks like with groups all day sometimes and most people in the room get confused at one point over which version of the iPad we are talking about.
I don't get that. Just use colloquialisms. "iPads 1, 2, 3, and 4; they don't sell 1 or 3 anymore." If they had dropped the numbers, you'd be talking about deploying an "iPad" in a situation. You'd pick based on your hardware requirements, and then it's no different from picking out a Mac and BTOing it. Is that confusing?
Originally Posted by blairh
Also it does not support MMS…
Well, this, at least, is wrong. jragosta can confirm that and can probably say if you're wrong about data and VV.
You're wrong about most of your comments:
1. There is no 2 GB monthly limit. It's unlimited data.
https://www.straighttalk.com/wps/portal/home/shop/serviceplans/!ut/p/b1/04_SjzQ0MzE2NzY2sTTXj9CPykssy0xPLMnMz0vMAfGjzOJdDLx8jQMdPYyCPMxNDTwDPJyD3c39DEwcjfXD9aPASgxwAEcDqAJcZhiY41fg72ak7-eRn5uqnxvl5ZrmqKgIAMyNXe4!/?s=y
There is a $30 per month plan that's limited to 30 MB per month, so if your needs are limited, you could save even more.
2. It most certainly does support MMS - I use it all the time. Granted, some people find that they have to jump through hoops to set it up, but to save $1,000, it's worth it.
3. Visual voicemail is not supported natively, but there are plenty of third party apps that offer it for a couple of bucks.
The only thing you're correct about is that it doesn't support LTE at this time. That is the one limitation - and certainly not worth over $1,000 to me. I suspect that it will be added at some time in the future, anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
This is out of left field but ... everyone assumes when polycarbonate is mentioned that it will be like an iPhone 3Gs, but they could instead make it exactly the same as an iPhone 5 but carve the back out of a plastic block instead of an aluminium one. It would make for a phone that looks a lot like an iPhone 5, comes in colours, is even *lighter*, and wouldn't need a case. If it had a plastic front-piece instead of gorilla glass it would be almost indestructible. It would bounce when you dropped it instead of shattering. It might even float.
I like this idea.
Unibody polycarbonate akin to the MacBook would keep the iPhone thin as well, and not bulbous like the 3G/3GS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
You're wrong about most of your comments:
1. There is no 2 GB monthly limit. It's unlimited data.
https://www.straighttalk.com/wps/portal/home/shop/serviceplans/!ut/p/b1/04_SjzQ0MzE2NzY2sTTXj9CPykssy0xPLMnMz0vMAfGjzOJdDLx8jQMdPYyCPMxNDTwDPJyD3c39DEwcjfXD9aPASgxwAEcDqAJcZhiY41fg72ak7-eRn5uqnxvl5ZrmqKgIAMyNXe4!/?s=y
There is a $30 per month plan that's limited to 30 MB per month, so if your needs are limited, you could save even more.
2. It most certainly does support MMS - I use it all the time. Granted, some people find that they have to jump through hoops to set it up, but to save $1,000, it's worth it.
3. Visual voicemail is not supported natively, but there are plenty of third party apps that offer it for a couple of bucks.
The only thing you're correct about is that it doesn't support LTE at this time. That is the one limitation - and certainly not worth over $1,000 to me. I suspect that it will be added at some time in the future, anyway.
Have you gone over 2GB of data on ST recently? My friend did and they throttled him to a speed so slow that even getting email took ages. He uses T-Mobile on ST. From just a quick check they do seem to have a 2GB limit at least for full speed possibly just for T-Mo users. But since I believe Straight Talk uses 3 of the 4 major carriers as an MVNO, maybe there is some differences depending on which carrier you use? Maybe some are more generous than others. Verizon is only used for the feature phones and T-Mobile and Sprint are used for the smart phones.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Walmart-Straight-Talk-Not-Unlimited,20508.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
There are no FREE older models for around 75% of the world. That is what you are missing. The iPhone 4 is free on contract with a 2 year contract in America, but might cost Europeans, Asian, or Latin Americans over $500. They need a phone to compete in the world market, not just in the land of contract subsidies which is but a minority.
I agree with this. I can offer a first hand report on Latin America; last year I was seeing a lot of older jail broken iPhones, however this year the large majority of the young professionals are using Samsung big screen phones. Not sure why the change in such a short period of time but the trend is quite noticeable. I love having my iPhone 4 officially unlocked by AT&T for use abroad. Works like a charm with a pay as you go plan. No more crappy feature phones just for local sim card.