What's the problem with legacy apps? The way I see it is more like: people who buy an iPad can only ever extract tablet functionality out of it whereas people who buy a Surface Pro can extract both tablet and desktop functionality out of it, not to mention that it runs Windows, so they can even use it for some of the stuff they use their desktops for, probably not optimally, but at least the potential is there, while on the iPad it simply isn't, and the MacBook Air is not a tablet. There's a 128GB model at the same price as the 64MB MacBook Air.
Surface Pro is a fridge and a toaster combine, It a bad laptop and a bad tablet and costing more than both. I can buy for the same price a better PC Laptop and a iPad. I won't pay 1000$ for a device running tablets apps when a iPad Mini will do better for 329$, I won't pay 1000$ for a gizmo that pretend to be a PRO product be worst at working than a plain regular laptop. And I'm sure i'm not the only one who thinking that way.
There's a 128GB model at the same price as the 64MB MacBook Air.
At least you dropped the 'better specs' argument.
In any event, your statement while technically true is very disingenuous. MS advertises the Pro exclusively with the keyboard and virtually every review confirms that the keyboard is really necessary. As soon as you add even the cheapest keyboard, your statement is false. In fact, the 128 GB Surface Pro with keyboard is more expensive than the 128 GB MacBook Air.
Surface Pro is a fridge and a toaster combine, It a bad laptop and a bad tablet and costing more than both. I can buy for the same price a better PC Laptop and a iPad. I won't pay 1000$ for a device running tablets apps when a iPad Mini will do better for 329$, I won't pay 1000$ for a gizmo that pretend to be a PRO product be worst at working than a plain regular laptop. And I'm sure i'm not the only one who thinking that way.
It's cheaper than a MBA + iPad mini.
Getting all bent out of shape because it's called "Pro" is like getting bent out of shape because the MBP 13" is called Pro without a discrete GPU. It's more pro than the MBA. Likewise the Surface Pro is more pro than the RT.
In any event, your statement while technically true is very disingenuous. MS advertises the Pro exclusively with the keyboard and virtually every review confirms that the keyboard is really necessary. As soon as you add even the cheapest keyboard, your statement is false. In fact, the 128 GB Surface Pro with keyboard is more expensive than the 128 GB MacBook Air.
Frankly the costs are a wash between the $1099 128GB MBA and the $1128 128GB Surface Pro (type cover).
The value proposition depends. If you're only using it as an ultrabook the MBA is probably better and less expensive. If you use it as both your ultrabook and tablet then the Surface Pro is cheaper than the MBA + any tablet.
Whether the Surface Pro will work for you as a tablet depends. I like the zagg pro plus keyboard (434 g) and with the iPad 4 (652g) it's not far from the Surface Pro (910 g) + type cover (217g) at 2.4 lbs (1086g) vs 2.5 LBS (1127g).
A MBA version of the surface pro would be really nice IMHO.
Getting all bent out of shape because it's called "Pro" is like getting bent out of shape because the MBP 13" is called Pro without a discrete GPU. It's more pro than the MBA. Likewise the Surface Pro is more pro than the RT.
The Surface Pro is currently the most expensive tablet on the market. Besides, you've never address the fact the Surface Pro is an inferior Windows device when compared with a regular Laptop for the same price, a recurring problem on Tablet PC. People aren't stupid, they don't want to pay more for the same Windows platform they already using.
So what you are saying is the SP is a niche product for a very narrow market, for someone who want a secondary PC for light work and occasional tablet entertainment... It doesn't fit the premium price tag Microsoft is asking for, one of the major raison why the iPad got so many early follower comes from the price tag, at $499 impulsive buyer are willing to spend money on a new platform. At $1000 for a gadget competing with cheaper products more fit for running softwares either in desktop or tablet configuration, I can't see how this is more than another gadget that will die in early adopter's desk.
Tallest Skil the ADMIN removes posts he or she doesn't like.
Is it a good or a bad device......we'll see.......but the Admin controls the argument.
Am pissed at You Skil. Fer Crap's sake....we all have opinions.....but anyone who knows any mobile device can work their way around any prollem, regardless of what hardware they have in their hand.
Now.....remove this too.....but at least one or two people will see it.
Tallest Skil the ADMIN removes posts he or she doesn't like.
Is it a good or a bad device......we'll see.......but the Admin controls the argument.
Am pissed at You Skil. Fer Crap's sake....we all have opinions.....but anyone who knows any mobile device can work their way around any prollem, regardless of what hardware they have in their hand.
Now.....remove this too.....but at least one or two people will see it.
My replies to you got removed, too, but you don't hear me going on about it. I put a lot of effort in those replies, albeit for a very short time frame but for those 15 seconds my reply to you was the only thing I was focusing on.
The Surface Pro is currently the most expensive tablet on the market. Besides, you've never address the fact the Surface Pro is an inferior Windows device when compared with a regular Laptop for the same price, a recurring problem on Tablet PC. People aren't stupid, they don't want to pay more for the same Windows platform they already using.
So what you are saying is the SP is a niche product for a very narrow market, for someone who want a secondary PC for light work and occasional tablet entertainment... It doesn't fit the premium price tag Microsoft is asking for, one of the major raison why the iPad got so many early follower comes from the price tag, at $499 impulsive buyer are willing to spend money on a new platform. At $1000 for a gadget competing with cheaper products more fit for running softwares either in desktop or tablet configuration, I can't see how this is more than another gadget that will die in early adopter's desk.
If the iPad is a car and the PC is a truck then the Surface Pro is a large cab pickup truck that seats four guys...you can call that niche but if so it may be a large one.
Is the pickup as nice a car as a car? No. Can the pickup haul as much as a dump truck? No. But it can hold 4 grown men and 2,000 lbs of payload.
I have not addressed the "fact" that they Surface Pro is an inferior Windows device when compared with a regular laptop because I don't believe that this is "fact". It is your opinion and one I disagree with for the same reasons I disagree with the assertion that Apple products are "inferior" in comparison with "a regular laptop for the same price". These comparisons are apples to oranges.
My desire is for a portable tablet computing device that I can have with me all the time but can dock for a full desktop experience so I don't need 2 machines. The Surface Pro comes closest to this desire. That doesn't mean it meets it but certainly a regular laptop does not. Nor for that matter does the MBA + iPad.
My replies to you got removed, too, but you don't hear me going on about it. I put a lot of effort in those replies, albeit for a very short time frame but for those 15 seconds my reply to you was the only thing I was focusing on.
What?
That's OK with You?
"Going on" about an Admin turning the discussion the way they want?
Crap.....am in the wrong place when the masses say that they understand the fight is fixed....they know it.....and they're cool with it.
If the iPad is a car and the PC is a truck then the Surface Pro is a large cab pickup truck that seats four guys...you can call that niche but if so it may be a large one.
Is the pickup as nice a car as a car? No. Can the pickup haul as much as a dump truck? No. But it can hold 4 grown men and 2,000 lbs of payload.
I have not addressed the "fact" that they Surface Pro is an inferior Windows device when compared with a regular laptop because I don't believe that this is "fact". It is your opinion and one I disagree with for the same reasons I disagree with the assertion that Apple products are "inferior" in comparison with "a regular laptop for the same price". These comparisons are apples to oranges.
My desire is for a portable tablet computing device that I can have with me all the time but can dock for a full desktop experience so I don't need 2 machines. The Surface Pro comes closest to this desire. That doesn't mean it meets it but certainly a regular laptop does not. Nor for that matter does the MBA + iPad.
I don't know why you keep comparing the Surface Pro with a MBA, even if there are about the same price, those two products doesn't serve the same market. Someone who want to buy a MBA won't consider the Surface Pro as an option. In another hands, for someone who primary needs for a mobile windows PC will compare options between the Surface Pro and other cheap PC laptop and Tablet available out there. And for someone who want everything in a single device will have a compromised solution: a small laptop or a big tablet.
"Going on" about an Admin turning the discussion the way they want?
Crap.....am in the wrong place when the masses say that they understand the fight is fixed....they know it.....and they're cool with it.
/shrug....am still disappointed.
The fight isn't fixed but it's also not unregulated. I've had posts removed and infractions given (even by mods I consider friends). If you step over the lines then and they react It is what it is. its not a perfect system but nothing is.
On top of that, this site is free, save for the ads, nor is it our site so I don't see why any of us should be upset over anything that is done here. If one doesn't like it they can go elsewhere or start their own. On top of on top of that, I feel this forum — of all the technology related forums in all the land — has the best commentators so as long as I can get something from my participation here I don't really care about how it's run.
Tallest Skil the ADMIN removes posts he or she doesn't like.
Is it a good or a bad device......we'll see.......but the Admin controls the argument.
Am pissed at You Skil. Fer Crap's sake....we all have opinions.....but anyone who knows any mobile device can work their way around any prollem, regardless of what hardware they have in their hand.
Now.....remove this too.....but at least one or two people will see it.
Content of the removed post:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
The GPU just crashed. Period. Because Windows has no idea how to manage graphics.
Jeez, Skil. You just stomp around here like Godzilla through a Japanese oil refinery, huh?
Kudos once again for Your compelling discussion.
So it's insulting and offers zero solutions to my problem. Yeah, I deleted it. Had the name in the quote been anonymouse, nht, solipsismX, Gatorguy, Gazoobee, DaHarder, or anyone else, I would have done the same.
But not Zazzles. I'd've left it if it had been Zazzles.
With the ability to truly multi-task, to not just mirror but dedicate external monitors to different things, run any full blown windows software, expand storage any number of ways (USB flash or HD, SD), easy connection of peripherals, parrot with Apple TV, run mobile apps with an Android emulator, play .iso files, use external burner, Microsoft Office.....the list just goes on and on..
There is a world of difference between 1366 x 768 on a 11.6 inch and a 1920x1080 on a 10 inch screen, One works fine for running legacy desktop applications, the other won't. It won't be an issue if Surface was like the iPad and only running apps made for this form factor, but this is not the case here, Surface Pro sales pitch is around running legacy apps.
Adding a SDXC card is only good for media, it wont give you more space for installing software and most people can't manage external storage efficiently. 28GB of free space on the main Windows volume is not enough for installing Pro apps.
1080p is fine for the screen size. The DPI setting works well for most desktop apps... certainly the stuff I care about. Metro apps are fully scalable.
There's no issue running desktop apps from micro SDXC... not that you'd need to though, after ditching the recovery partition there's 91GB free on the 128GB model, an that's with full Office 2013 already installed.
Add a 64GB SDXC and configure you libraries to use it behind the scenes and you've got 150GB available.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
What's the problem with legacy apps? The way I see it is more like: people who buy an iPad can only ever extract tablet functionality out of it whereas people who buy a Surface Pro can extract both tablet and desktop functionality out of it, not to mention that it runs Windows, so they can even use it for some of the stuff they use their desktops for, probably not optimally, but at least the potential is there, while on the iPad it simply isn't, and the MacBook Air is not a tablet. There's a 128GB model at the same price as the 64MB MacBook Air.
Surface Pro is a fridge and a toaster combine, It a bad laptop and a bad tablet and costing more than both. I can buy for the same price a better PC Laptop and a iPad. I won't pay 1000$ for a device running tablets apps when a iPad Mini will do better for 329$, I won't pay 1000$ for a gizmo that pretend to be a PRO product be worst at working than a plain regular laptop. And I'm sure i'm not the only one who thinking that way.
At least you dropped the 'better specs' argument.
In any event, your statement while technically true is very disingenuous. MS advertises the Pro exclusively with the keyboard and virtually every review confirms that the keyboard is really necessary. As soon as you add even the cheapest keyboard, your statement is false. In fact, the 128 GB Surface Pro with keyboard is more expensive than the 128 GB MacBook Air.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Yes, one can find all sorts of silly 'features' to try to prove a silly point.
Which feature did you consider silly? Because the digitizer is a welcome addition and the touchscreen a necessity for metro apps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2
Surface Pro is a fridge and a toaster combine, It a bad laptop and a bad tablet and costing more than both. I can buy for the same price a better PC Laptop and a iPad. I won't pay 1000$ for a device running tablets apps when a iPad Mini will do better for 329$, I won't pay 1000$ for a gizmo that pretend to be a PRO product be worst at working than a plain regular laptop. And I'm sure i'm not the only one who thinking that way.
It's cheaper than a MBA + iPad mini.
Getting all bent out of shape because it's called "Pro" is like getting bent out of shape because the MBP 13" is called Pro without a discrete GPU. It's more pro than the MBA. Likewise the Surface Pro is more pro than the RT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
At least you dropped the 'better specs' argument.
In any event, your statement while technically true is very disingenuous. MS advertises the Pro exclusively with the keyboard and virtually every review confirms that the keyboard is really necessary. As soon as you add even the cheapest keyboard, your statement is false. In fact, the 128 GB Surface Pro with keyboard is more expensive than the 128 GB MacBook Air.
Frankly the costs are a wash between the $1099 128GB MBA and the $1128 128GB Surface Pro (type cover).
The value proposition depends. If you're only using it as an ultrabook the MBA is probably better and less expensive. If you use it as both your ultrabook and tablet then the Surface Pro is cheaper than the MBA + any tablet.
Whether the Surface Pro will work for you as a tablet depends. I like the zagg pro plus keyboard (434 g) and with the iPad 4 (652g) it's not far from the Surface Pro (910 g) + type cover (217g) at 2.4 lbs (1086g) vs 2.5 LBS (1127g).
A MBA version of the surface pro would be really nice IMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
It's cheaper than a MBA + iPad mini.
Getting all bent out of shape because it's called "Pro" is like getting bent out of shape because the MBP 13" is called Pro without a discrete GPU. It's more pro than the MBA. Likewise the Surface Pro is more pro than the RT.
The Surface Pro is currently the most expensive tablet on the market. Besides, you've never address the fact the Surface Pro is an inferior Windows device when compared with a regular Laptop for the same price, a recurring problem on Tablet PC. People aren't stupid, they don't want to pay more for the same Windows platform they already using.
So what you are saying is the SP is a niche product for a very narrow market, for someone who want a secondary PC for light work and occasional tablet entertainment... It doesn't fit the premium price tag Microsoft is asking for, one of the major raison why the iPad got so many early follower comes from the price tag, at $499 impulsive buyer are willing to spend money on a new platform. At $1000 for a gadget competing with cheaper products more fit for running softwares either in desktop or tablet configuration, I can't see how this is more than another gadget that will die in early adopter's desk.
Tallest Skil the ADMIN removes posts he or she doesn't like.
Is it a good or a bad device......we'll see.......but the Admin controls the argument.
Am pissed at You Skil. Fer Crap's sake....we all have opinions.....but anyone who knows any mobile device can work their way around any prollem, regardless of what hardware they have in their hand.
Now.....remove this too.....but at least one or two people will see it.
My replies to you got removed, too, but you don't hear me going on about it. I put a lot of effort in those replies, albeit for a very short time frame but for those 15 seconds my reply to you was the only thing I was focusing on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2
The Surface Pro is currently the most expensive tablet on the market. Besides, you've never address the fact the Surface Pro is an inferior Windows device when compared with a regular Laptop for the same price, a recurring problem on Tablet PC. People aren't stupid, they don't want to pay more for the same Windows platform they already using.
So what you are saying is the SP is a niche product for a very narrow market, for someone who want a secondary PC for light work and occasional tablet entertainment... It doesn't fit the premium price tag Microsoft is asking for, one of the major raison why the iPad got so many early follower comes from the price tag, at $499 impulsive buyer are willing to spend money on a new platform. At $1000 for a gadget competing with cheaper products more fit for running softwares either in desktop or tablet configuration, I can't see how this is more than another gadget that will die in early adopter's desk.
If the iPad is a car and the PC is a truck then the Surface Pro is a large cab pickup truck that seats four guys...you can call that niche but if so it may be a large one.
Is the pickup as nice a car as a car? No. Can the pickup haul as much as a dump truck? No. But it can hold 4 grown men and 2,000 lbs of payload.
I have not addressed the "fact" that they Surface Pro is an inferior Windows device when compared with a regular laptop because I don't believe that this is "fact". It is your opinion and one I disagree with for the same reasons I disagree with the assertion that Apple products are "inferior" in comparison with "a regular laptop for the same price". These comparisons are apples to oranges.
My desire is for a portable tablet computing device that I can have with me all the time but can dock for a full desktop experience so I don't need 2 machines. The Surface Pro comes closest to this desire. That doesn't mean it meets it but certainly a regular laptop does not. Nor for that matter does the MBA + iPad.
What?
That's OK with You?
"Going on" about an Admin turning the discussion the way they want?
Crap.....am in the wrong place when the masses say that they understand the fight is fixed....they know it.....and they're cool with it.
/shrug....am still disappointed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
If the iPad is a car and the PC is a truck then the Surface Pro is a large cab pickup truck that seats four guys...you can call that niche but if so it may be a large one.
Is the pickup as nice a car as a car? No. Can the pickup haul as much as a dump truck? No. But it can hold 4 grown men and 2,000 lbs of payload.
I have not addressed the "fact" that they Surface Pro is an inferior Windows device when compared with a regular laptop because I don't believe that this is "fact". It is your opinion and one I disagree with for the same reasons I disagree with the assertion that Apple products are "inferior" in comparison with "a regular laptop for the same price". These comparisons are apples to oranges.
My desire is for a portable tablet computing device that I can have with me all the time but can dock for a full desktop experience so I don't need 2 machines. The Surface Pro comes closest to this desire. That doesn't mean it meets it but certainly a regular laptop does not. Nor for that matter does the MBA + iPad.
I don't know why you keep comparing the Surface Pro with a MBA, even if there are about the same price, those two products doesn't serve the same market. Someone who want to buy a MBA won't consider the Surface Pro as an option. In another hands, for someone who primary needs for a mobile windows PC will compare options between the Surface Pro and other cheap PC laptop and Tablet available out there. And for someone who want everything in a single device will have a compromised solution: a small laptop or a big tablet.
This is a surface pro with a dedicated video card......and is still snappy enough to do anything an iPad can do.
The fight isn't fixed but it's also not unregulated. I've had posts removed and infractions given (even by mods I consider friends). If you step over the lines then and they react It is what it is. its not a perfect system but nothing is.
On top of that, this site is free, save for the ads, nor is it our site so I don't see why any of us should be upset over anything that is done here. If one doesn't like it they can go elsewhere or start their own. On top of on top of that, I feel this forum — of all the technology related forums in all the land — has the best commentators so as long as I can get something from my participation here I don't really care about how it's run.
As long as everyone knows that a person with 10000 posts has confirmed that they know what we see wasn't everything that was said....by anyone.
Thank You.
Originally Posted by handquake
This sucks.
Tallest Skil the ADMIN removes posts he or she doesn't like.
Is it a good or a bad device......we'll see.......but the Admin controls the argument.
Am pissed at You Skil. Fer Crap's sake....we all have opinions.....but anyone who knows any mobile device can work their way around any prollem, regardless of what hardware they have in their hand.
Now.....remove this too.....but at least one or two people will see it.
Content of the removed post:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
The GPU just crashed. Period. Because Windows has no idea how to manage graphics.
Jeez, Skil. You just stomp around here like Godzilla through a Japanese oil refinery, huh?
Kudos once again for Your compelling discussion.
So it's insulting and offers zero solutions to my problem. Yeah, I deleted it. Had the name in the quote been anonymouse, nht, solipsismX, Gatorguy, Gazoobee, DaHarder, or anyone else, I would have done the same.
But not Zazzles. I'd've left it if it had been Zazzles.
That read like this....
Smooth, my comment deleting, unbiased brother.
Would that make that preferential mistreatment?
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Would that make that preferential mistreatment?
No, I'd treat all 12 of his accounts equally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2
There is a world of difference between 1366 x 768 on a 11.6 inch and a 1920x1080 on a 10 inch screen, One works fine for running legacy desktop applications, the other won't. It won't be an issue if Surface was like the iPad and only running apps made for this form factor, but this is not the case here, Surface Pro sales pitch is around running legacy apps.
Adding a SDXC card is only good for media, it wont give you more space for installing software and most people can't manage external storage efficiently. 28GB of free space on the main Windows volume is not enough for installing Pro apps.
1080p is fine for the screen size. The DPI setting works well for most desktop apps... certainly the stuff I care about. Metro apps are fully scalable.
There's no issue running desktop apps from micro SDXC... not that you'd need to though, after ditching the recovery partition there's 91GB free on the 128GB model, an that's with full Office 2013 already installed.
Add a 64GB SDXC and configure you libraries to use it behind the scenes and you've got 150GB available.
Like I said, storage isn't an issue.