1080p is fine for the screen size. The DPI setting works well for most desktop apps... certainly the stuff I care about. Metro apps are fully scalable.
There's no issue running desktop apps from micro SDXC... not that you'd need to though, after ditching the recovery partition there's 91GB free on the 128GB model, an that's with full Office 2013 already installed.
Add a 64GB SDXC and configure you libraries to use it behind the scenes and you've got 150GB available.
Like I said, storage isn't an issue.
Most people doesn't know how to handle multiple drive on windows, many home users only know about the start menu and has never browse their HD content. While you can install some software on a secondary drive, very few installer gave the option. Beside without any backup disk, ditching the recovery partition is a very bad idea.
I still said, storage will be an issue for common users.
Beside without any backup disk, ditching the recovery partition is a very bad idea.
A tablet that has to have a hard drive backup… Oh, that's funny. Used to be the case with Apple devices, but at least then it was off-device on a computer that would have already been backed up. Now it's just "one-click redownload and your settings are stored in iCloud".
A tablet that has to have a hard drive backup… Oh, that's funny. Used to be the case with Apple devices, but at least then it was off-device on a computer that would have already been backed up. Now it's just "one-click redownload and your settings are stored in iCloud".
This is where keeping a Tablet OS under 1 GB is smart, Microsoft will never offer OTA reinstallation for the Surface with such a huge OS.
Most people doesn't know how to handle multiple drive on windows, many home users only know about the start menu and has never browse their HD content. While you can install some software on a secondary drive, very few installer gave the option. Beside without any backup disk, ditching the recovery partition is a very bad idea.
I still said, storage will be an issue for common users.
Unless you or I wake up tomorrow and forget how to turn a computer on then any conversation about "common users" is completely irrelevant and pointless.
When I said "ditch" the recovery partition I meant off the main drive. It can be copied onto a USB drive in a few minutes.
Even then it's just a convenience thing as you could just grab any Windows install and Windows Update will grab the driver you need off the web.
I can't remember the last installer I used that didn't allow me to select the installation location. Maybe Chrome? In any case, like I said with 90GB available it's unlikely you would need to start installing desktop applications on a micro SDXC.
Unless you or I wake up tomorrow and forget how to turn a computer on then any conversation about "common users" is completely irrelevant and pointless.
When I said "ditch" the recovery partition I meant off the main drive. It can be copied onto a USB drive in a few minutes.
Even then it's just a convenience thing as you could just grab any Windows install and Windows Update will grab the driver you need off the web.
I can't remember the last installer I used that didn't allow me to select the installation location. Maybe Chrome? In any case, like I said with 90GB available it's unlikely you would need to start installing desktop applications on a micro SDXC.
Office and Visual Studio are 2 Microsoft own softwares who aren't easy to install on another partition, things like Steam, Microsoft Marketplace or iTunes don't ask and use the main volume only by default.
I've used and works on all computer generations since VaxVMS, DOS and System 6 got no secrets left to me. If you understand where the home computing comes from and where it goes, you got to realize things wants to go simpler and easy to use. The desktop paradigm today is like the command prompt of the DOS in the old days, it become too clutter and cumbersome for the majority, because you and I represent only a very small amount of user who bought computers.
I'll share you a personal story that just happen today, one aunt from my step family just got a massive overcharge on her internet bill. Her first impression was: I've been hack or got a virus, typical reaction from PC users. But what really happen is during the holidays, on guest used her computer to download a torrent, she closed the windows and doesn't know about the sharing was still running in background, and now she's mad about everything. Most user doesn't wan't to know and care about how things work as long it's working, I'm none of them, but they represent a large proportion of people ending and using and buying PCs or other devices.
You see It's too late to come back, Peoples wants their device works for them and not the opposite, they doesn't wan't to waste time anymore managing their device like they've done for their PC. They don't want to install antivirus anymore or doing backups. Mobile devices, phones or tablets have already prove those things can works without caring about all of desktop pc hurdles.
Now Microsoft with Surface and Windows 8 got a really bad strategy. They created exactly what both of their core market doens't want, a cross-over between home entertainment and business - pro market. With all of Windows hurdles and none of the tablet advantages.
So yes, some geeks like you and me could drool for a Tablet Windows crossover device, but let me tell you, Windows apps is now so 90's in peoples minds who now enjoy new and refreshed mobiles ecosystem while Microsoft is still in the 90s.
There's a 128GB model at the same price as the 64MB MacBook Air.
128GiB Surface Pro + Type Cover iss $1128. 128GiB MBA is $1099. If you're not going to include the TypeCover then you can't reasonably compare it as being in the same league as the MBA.
Also note that the 128GiB Surface Pro has about 25GB less usable storage space than the 128GiB MBA.
Office and Visual Studio are 2 Microsoft own softwares who aren't easy to install on another partition, things like Steam, Microsoft Marketplace or iTunes don't ask and use the main volume only by default.
.
.
.
You can install both Office 2013 and Visual Studio 2012 to a different drive if you like, but like I said I doubt it would be an issue with 90GB available on the 128GB model.
The reason I said discussion about "common users" is completely irrelevant and pointless is because the conversation goes around and around based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence and conjecture.
I get you aunt would be fine with an iPad. I have a similar story, my (almost 70 year old) step father purchased himself his very first computer for Christmas... an iPad.
It's easy to read too much into that though.
There is certainly a market segment that want (and often need) the valet computing experience. However the overwhelming majority of people (including a generation of incredibly capable digital natives now reaching the consumer market) that appear to be happier with more choice\complexity, not less.
Look at Android (a vastly more complex solution than iOS) crushing the iPhone in market share and the continued dominance of Windows (again, a far more complex solution) over OSX.
With 90% of tablet owners holding onto their PC's you have to at least wonder if the iPad is more of an auxiliary device rather than a PC replacement.
In any case, like I said this discussion is pointless. You throw up some ideas, then I throw some up some ideas, but really neither of us know and all it does it detract from the actual conversation which in this case, was about the pros and cons of the hybrid form-factor.
You can install both Office 2013 and Visual Studio 2012 to a different drive if you like, but like I said I doubt it would be an issue with 90GB available on the 128GB model.
The reason I said discussion about "common users" is completely irrelevant and pointless is because the conversation goes around and around based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence and conjecture.
I get you aunt would be fine with an iPad. I have a similar story, my (almost 70 year old) step father purchased himself his very first computer for Christmas... an iPad.
It's easy to read too much into that though.
There is certainly a market segment that want (and often need) the valet computing experience. However the overwhelming majority of people (including a generation of incredibly capable digital natives now reaching the consumer market) that appear to be happier with more choice\complexity, not less.
Look at Android (a vastly more complex solution than iOS) crushing the iPhone in market share and the continued dominance of Windows (again, a far more complex solution) over OSX.
With 90% of tablet owners holding onto their PC's you have to at least wonder if the iPad is more of an auxiliary device rather than a PC replacement.
In any case, like I said this discussion is pointless. You throw up some ideas, then I throw some up some ideas, but really neither of us know and all it does it detract from the actual conversation which in this case, was about the pros and cons of the hybrid form-factor.
You don't seams to understand how fair market works, you can't compare the near zero margin and highly subsidize android phones market or Microsoft Windows OEM monopoly with fair and square Tablet market. You can keep repeating and convince yourself there is a way to manage the 128GB Surface space, I agree with you there is always a way, I can do the same kind of trickery on the iPad and run apps from a NFS share, but those patches are not viable solution for common user, making the 64GB Surface Pro a frustrating and uninteresting product for most.
Right now the majority of home PC's is being use for browsing the Web or reading emails. Many house hold got multiple PC, one for every family member, those secondary computers will be replaced by tablet and other device in a near future because Windows is slowly but surely loose his mandatory status in people minds. This revolution has already begun few years ago without Microsoft, and Surface is only another try from Microsoft to not let go Windows legacy
You don't seams to understand how fair market works, you can't compare the near zero margin and highly subsidize android phones market or Microsoft Windows OEM monopoly with fair and square Tablet market.
Just a note: the iPhone is the most highly subsidized phone in the US.
Sprint has said that they pay an extra 40% more for it over other smartphone subsidies.
Just a note: the iPhone is the most highly subsidized phone in the US.
Sprint has said that they pay an extra 40% more for it over other smartphone subsidies.
What's your point?
Yes the iPhone is subsidized, but Carriers around the world pushed way more Android $0 and bogo deals than iPhones. There is no fair market in smartphone indeed and this is why free Android scores better than the iPhone. For unsubsidized tablet market, where people votes with their dollars, the iPad dominance is undeniable.
1080p is fine for the screen size. The DPI setting works well for most desktop apps... certainly the stuff I care about. Metro apps are fully scalable.
There's no issue running desktop apps from micro SDXC... not that you'd need to though, after ditching the recovery partition there's 91GB free on the 128GB model, an that's with full Office 2013 already installed.
Add a 64GB SDXC and configure you libraries to use it behind the scenes and you've got 150GB available.
Here is what they have to say on having HD resolution on a 10in screen:
Quote:
It's that higher resolution that we occasionally struggled with when running desktop apps. By default, the tablet is set to scale text to 150 percent its original size, making most (but not all) menus and buttons huge and reasonably finger-friendly. That's great when you're actually using your fingers, but it results in a lot of wasted space on the display when you're using a mouse. More troublingly, it made the text and icons in many apps appear rather blurry.
So, we tweaked the scaling down to 100 percent and the result is the 1:1 pixel rendition that you'd normally expect from Windows. Everything now looks perfect and the fact that you can even toggle this option feels like a luxury compared to the Retina MacBook Pros, where OS X mandates some degree of scaling. When running apps at 100 percent, the visuals are much cleaner, and those who want maximum screen real estate will be happiest here -- but in this view scrollbars and other on-screen controls are tricky to hit accurately with a finger. Interacting with the desktop without a mouse suddenly becomes a chore.
So, then, one scaling size is good for fingers, the other for productivity with a keyboard and mouse. If you could quickly jump between the two that might not be so bad, but from the desktop it's five taps and swipes into the Control Panel just to get to this setting and, when you change it, Windows forces you to log out of the computer -- thus closing all your currently running apps. It's hardly a quick change, so we wound up going for the unhappy median of 125 percent up-scaled text.
It can simply do whatever and I mean whatever...I need with this device.
And the guy who basically set this whole OS stuff up says he thinks we as Apple people are loyal just to be loyal.
Me? I'm going to take a look around and just see what the devices I have can do....and when I find that sumpin' does more things I need......I'm bouncing.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475
1080p is fine for the screen size. The DPI setting works well for most desktop apps... certainly the stuff I care about. Metro apps are fully scalable.
There's no issue running desktop apps from micro SDXC... not that you'd need to though, after ditching the recovery partition there's 91GB free on the 128GB model, an that's with full Office 2013 already installed.
Add a 64GB SDXC and configure you libraries to use it behind the scenes and you've got 150GB available.
Like I said, storage isn't an issue.
Most people doesn't know how to handle multiple drive on windows, many home users only know about the start menu and has never browse their HD content. While you can install some software on a secondary drive, very few installer gave the option. Beside without any backup disk, ditching the recovery partition is a very bad idea.
I still said, storage will be an issue for common users.
Originally Posted by BigMac2
Beside without any backup disk, ditching the recovery partition is a very bad idea.
A tablet that has to have a hard drive backup… Oh, that's funny. Used to be the case with Apple devices, but at least then it was off-device on a computer that would have already been backed up. Now it's just "one-click redownload and your settings are stored in iCloud".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
A tablet that has to have a hard drive backup… Oh, that's funny. Used to be the case with Apple devices, but at least then it was off-device on a computer that would have already been backed up. Now it's just "one-click redownload and your settings are stored in iCloud".
This is where keeping a Tablet OS under 1 GB is smart, Microsoft will never offer OTA reinstallation for the Surface with such a huge OS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2
Most people doesn't know how to handle multiple drive on windows, many home users only know about the start menu and has never browse their HD content. While you can install some software on a secondary drive, very few installer gave the option. Beside without any backup disk, ditching the recovery partition is a very bad idea.
I still said, storage will be an issue for common users.
Unless you or I wake up tomorrow and forget how to turn a computer on then any conversation about "common users" is completely irrelevant and pointless.
When I said "ditch" the recovery partition I meant off the main drive. It can be copied onto a USB drive in a few minutes.
Even then it's just a convenience thing as you could just grab any Windows install and Windows Update will grab the driver you need off the web.
I can't remember the last installer I used that didn't allow me to select the installation location. Maybe Chrome? In any case, like I said with 90GB available it's unlikely you would need to start installing desktop applications on a micro SDXC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475
Unless you or I wake up tomorrow and forget how to turn a computer on then any conversation about "common users" is completely irrelevant and pointless.
When I said "ditch" the recovery partition I meant off the main drive. It can be copied onto a USB drive in a few minutes.
Even then it's just a convenience thing as you could just grab any Windows install and Windows Update will grab the driver you need off the web.
I can't remember the last installer I used that didn't allow me to select the installation location. Maybe Chrome? In any case, like I said with 90GB available it's unlikely you would need to start installing desktop applications on a micro SDXC.
Office and Visual Studio are 2 Microsoft own softwares who aren't easy to install on another partition, things like Steam, Microsoft Marketplace or iTunes don't ask and use the main volume only by default.
I've used and works on all computer generations since VaxVMS, DOS and System 6 got no secrets left to me. If you understand where the home computing comes from and where it goes, you got to realize things wants to go simpler and easy to use. The desktop paradigm today is like the command prompt of the DOS in the old days, it become too clutter and cumbersome for the majority, because you and I represent only a very small amount of user who bought computers.
I'll share you a personal story that just happen today, one aunt from my step family just got a massive overcharge on her internet bill. Her first impression was: I've been hack or got a virus, typical reaction from PC users. But what really happen is during the holidays, on guest used her computer to download a torrent, she closed the windows and doesn't know about the sharing was still running in background, and now she's mad about everything. Most user doesn't wan't to know and care about how things work as long it's working, I'm none of them, but they represent a large proportion of people ending and using and buying PCs or other devices.
You see It's too late to come back, Peoples wants their device works for them and not the opposite, they doesn't wan't to waste time anymore managing their device like they've done for their PC. They don't want to install antivirus anymore or doing backups. Mobile devices, phones or tablets have already prove those things can works without caring about all of desktop pc hurdles.
Now Microsoft with Surface and Windows 8 got a really bad strategy. They created exactly what both of their core market doens't want, a cross-over between home entertainment and business - pro market. With all of Windows hurdles and none of the tablet advantages.
So yes, some geeks like you and me could drool for a Tablet Windows crossover device, but let me tell you, Windows apps is now so 90's in peoples minds who now enjoy new and refreshed mobiles ecosystem while Microsoft is still in the 90s.
128GiB Surface Pro + Type Cover iss $1128. 128GiB MBA is $1099. If you're not going to include the TypeCover then you can't reasonably compare it as being in the same league as the MBA.
Also note that the 128GiB Surface Pro has about 25GB less usable storage space than the 128GiB MBA.
If you want a touchscreen, full computer, the Surface sucks. Asus, Acer and Lenovo have much better offerings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2
Office and Visual Studio are 2 Microsoft own softwares who aren't easy to install on another partition, things like Steam, Microsoft Marketplace or iTunes don't ask and use the main volume only by default.
.
.
.
You can install both Office 2013 and Visual Studio 2012 to a different drive if you like, but like I said I doubt it would be an issue with 90GB available on the 128GB model.
The reason I said discussion about "common users" is completely irrelevant and pointless is because the conversation goes around and around based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence and conjecture.
I get you aunt would be fine with an iPad. I have a similar story, my (almost 70 year old) step father purchased himself his very first computer for Christmas... an iPad.
It's easy to read too much into that though.
There is certainly a market segment that want (and often need) the valet computing experience. However the overwhelming majority of people (including a generation of incredibly capable digital natives now reaching the consumer market) that appear to be happier with more choice\complexity, not less.
Look at Android (a vastly more complex solution than iOS) crushing the iPhone in market share and the continued dominance of Windows (again, a far more complex solution) over OSX.
With 90% of tablet owners holding onto their PC's you have to at least wonder if the iPad is more of an auxiliary device rather than a PC replacement.
In any case, like I said this discussion is pointless. You throw up some ideas, then I throw some up some ideas, but really neither of us know and all it does it detract from the actual conversation which in this case, was about the pros and cons of the hybrid form-factor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475
You can install both Office 2013 and Visual Studio 2012 to a different drive if you like, but like I said I doubt it would be an issue with 90GB available on the 128GB model.
The reason I said discussion about "common users" is completely irrelevant and pointless is because the conversation goes around and around based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence and conjecture.
I get you aunt would be fine with an iPad. I have a similar story, my (almost 70 year old) step father purchased himself his very first computer for Christmas... an iPad.
It's easy to read too much into that though.
There is certainly a market segment that want (and often need) the valet computing experience. However the overwhelming majority of people (including a generation of incredibly capable digital natives now reaching the consumer market) that appear to be happier with more choice\complexity, not less.
Look at Android (a vastly more complex solution than iOS) crushing the iPhone in market share and the continued dominance of Windows (again, a far more complex solution) over OSX.
With 90% of tablet owners holding onto their PC's you have to at least wonder if the iPad is more of an auxiliary device rather than a PC replacement.
In any case, like I said this discussion is pointless. You throw up some ideas, then I throw some up some ideas, but really neither of us know and all it does it detract from the actual conversation which in this case, was about the pros and cons of the hybrid form-factor.
You don't seams to understand how fair market works, you can't compare the near zero margin and highly subsidize android phones market or Microsoft Windows OEM monopoly with fair and square Tablet market. You can keep repeating and convince yourself there is a way to manage the 128GB Surface space, I agree with you there is always a way, I can do the same kind of trickery on the iPad and run apps from a NFS share, but those patches are not viable solution for common user, making the 64GB Surface Pro a frustrating and uninteresting product for most.
Right now the majority of home PC's is being use for browsing the Web or reading emails. Many house hold got multiple PC, one for every family member, those secondary computers will be replaced by tablet and other device in a near future because Windows is slowly but surely loose his mandatory status in people minds. This revolution has already begun few years ago without Microsoft, and Surface is only another try from Microsoft to not let go Windows legacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2
You don't seams to understand how fair market works, you can't compare the near zero margin and highly subsidize android phones market or Microsoft Windows OEM monopoly with fair and square Tablet market.
Just a note: the iPhone is the most highly subsidized phone in the US.
Sprint has said that they pay an extra 40% more for it over other smartphone subsidies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
Just a note: the iPhone is the most highly subsidized phone in the US.
Sprint has said that they pay an extra 40% more for it over other smartphone subsidies.
What's your point?
Yes the iPhone is subsidized, but Carriers around the world pushed way more Android $0 and bogo deals than iPhones. There is no fair market in smartphone indeed and this is why free Android scores better than the iPhone. For unsubsidized tablet market, where people votes with their dollars, the iPad dominance is undeniable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475
1080p is fine for the screen size. The DPI setting works well for most desktop apps... certainly the stuff I care about. Metro apps are fully scalable.
There's no issue running desktop apps from micro SDXC... not that you'd need to though, after ditching the recovery partition there's 91GB free on the 128GB model, an that's with full Office 2013 already installed.
Add a 64GB SDXC and configure you libraries to use it behind the scenes and you've got 150GB available.
Like I said, storage isn't an issue.
Engadget just published a Surface Pro review:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/05/microsoft-surface-pro-review/
Here is what they have to say on having HD resolution on a 10in screen:
Quote:
It's that higher resolution that we occasionally struggled with when running desktop apps. By default, the tablet is set to scale text to 150 percent its original size, making most (but not all) menus and buttons huge and reasonably finger-friendly. That's great when you're actually using your fingers, but it results in a lot of wasted space on the display when you're using a mouse. More troublingly, it made the text and icons in many apps appear rather blurry.
So, we tweaked the scaling down to 100 percent and the result is the 1:1 pixel rendition that you'd normally expect from Windows. Everything now looks perfect and the fact that you can even toggle this option feels like a luxury compared to the Retina MacBook Pros, where OS X mandates some degree of scaling. When running apps at 100 percent, the visuals are much cleaner, and those who want maximum screen real estate will be happiest here -- but in this view scrollbars and other on-screen controls are tricky to hit accurately with a finger. Interacting with the desktop without a mouse suddenly becomes a chore.
So, then, one scaling size is good for fingers, the other for productivity with a keyboard and mouse. If you could quickly jump between the two that might not be so bad, but from the desktop it's five taps and swipes into the Control Panel just to get to this setting and, when you change it, Windows forces you to log out of the computer -- thus closing all your currently running apps. It's hardly a quick change, so we wound up going for the unhappy median of 125 percent up-scaled text.
At least we have a real debate here.
I find it funny that Woz. likes the Windows phone OS.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/7/3963962/steve-wozniak-apple-falling-behind-in-phones-samsung-great-competitor
It can simply do whatever and I mean whatever...I need with this device.
And the guy who basically set this whole OS stuff up says he thinks we as Apple people are loyal just to be loyal.
Me? I'm going to take a look around and just see what the devices I have can do....and when I find that sumpin' does more things I need......I'm bouncing.