Windows is crap and everyone knows it, I've seen brand new Windows 8 PCs at the store with the infamous blue screen of death on display... Apple OSX is decent, but closed, with expensive and limited hardware. What do most distributed systems and supercomputers use? Linux of course.
And I don't know if you've ever coded or not, but Linux has the best tools by far for that. I use them everyday to manage information and data that I use to make decisions about trading stocks...
But anyhow, University is supposed to be about propagating knowledge, not pushing specific commercial products.
I agree with much, but not all of this. Firstly, Windows has, historically, been crap, but Win 7/8 is a major leap forward stability-wise (and the UI is quite nice as well now -- it only took them 25 years...), and the windows programming tools are very good IF you like the Windows programming model (everything in one address space). I don't particularly. OS X has pretty much the same tools as linux for programming, but Apple laptops had historically come ready to work out of the box (and the hardware is nice, if expensive) -- linux laptops had been a bit painful, which is why most unix hacks switched to apple hardware, laptop-wise.
In my post I stated that a student can go to the campus library and check the books out. Me and my friends saved hundreds of dollars a year by doing this.
Oh you bring back bad memories of my English University days ... If I added up all the hours walking to and from, plus those spent in the Library ... then add in the time in the Library trying to find the bloody book I wanted in the bloody library ... OMG it would almost equal the time spent in the University bar* for cripe's sake! Look at how much drinking time you save using an iPad! Genius pure genius.
* foot note for Americans ... age drinking allowed is 18 (as well as dying in the army) in civilized countries.
I agree with much, but not all of this. Firstly, Windows has, historically, been crap, but Win 7/8 is a major leap forward stability-wise (and the UI is quite nice as well now -- it only took them 25 years...), and the windows programming tools are very good IF you like the Windows programming model (everything in one address space). I don't particularly. OS X has pretty much the same tools as linux for programming, but Apple laptops had historically come ready to work out of the box (and the hardware is nice, if expensive) -- linux laptops had been a bit painful, which is why most unix hacks switched to apple hardware, laptop-wise.
Linux on laptops can be completely painless if you do a little research beforehand, and it actually runs very well on Mac hardware, especially the Macbook Air. I also know people running Linux on the new retina Macbooks. Thinkpads (IBM and now Lenovo) tend to do very well with Linux as well.
Windows programming tools are nice if you program in C++, C#, Visual Basic and ASP.NET, or if you're making Windows apps. Trying to install a nice environment for non-MS approved languages on Windows is a huge pain. It is (W7) quite stable, but slow, updates still annoy me, and I find MS Office 2010 likes to crash constantly...
Assuming your system uses hardware that plays nice with Linux, setting up programming environments, servers, virtual systems, cloud infrastructure, etc..., is trivial. I've got an old box that I set up to be a cloud storage server, with a desktop environment easy enough for my wife to use for things like Skype, and syncing her iPhone. It's been up for months, in fact, it's never gone done, except when I update the kernel.
OSX is a decently nice system, I'll give you that, it has all the POSIX tools and it has most of the same benefits that Linux does. Only downside is the restrictive license, and managing dependencies can be slightly tougher on occasion (which is offset by the ready to go working OS).
And finally, keep in mind I'm a finance guy, not a developer. I do program, but only tools for myself (in Ruby and Common Lisp), so while I'm tech savvy, I'm far from a professional...
Linux on laptops can be completely painless if you do a little research beforehand, and it actually runs very well on Mac hardware, especially the Macbook Air. I also know people running Linux on the new retina Macbooks. Thinkpads (IBM and now Lenovo) tend to do very well with Linux as well.
Windows programming tools are nice if you program in C++, C#, Visual Basic and ASP.NET, or if you're making Windows apps. Trying to install a nice environment for non-MS approved languages on Windows is a huge pain. It is (W7) quite stable, but slow, updates still annoy me, and I find MS Office 2010 likes to crash constantly...
Assuming your system uses hardware that plays nice with Linux, setting up programming environments, servers, virtual systems, cloud infrastructure, etc..., is trivial. I've got an old box that I set up to be a cloud storage server, with a desktop environment easy enough for my wife to use for things like Skype, and syncing her iPhone. It's been up for months, in fact, it's never gone done, except when I update the kernel.
OSX is a decently nice system, I'll give you that, it has all the POSIX tools and it has most of the same benefits that Linux does. Only downside is the restrictive license, and managing dependencies can be slightly tougher on occasion (which is offset by the ready to go working OS).
And finally, keep in mind I'm a finance guy, not a developer. I do program, but only tools for myself (in Ruby and Common Lisp), so while I'm tech savvy, I'm far from a professional...
Well, I used to hate Windows (my first serious programming language was scheme, and Windows is sort of the antithesis of that kind of minimalism), and only started using it when I became involved in finance (Office and Bloomberg) -- all of my actual "IP" is python/awk/sqlite/a bit of java (all of it lives happily on my linux server. Still, UI-wise I would say that Windows 7/8 has pretty much caught up with OS X (I know it's anathema to say this here...), and F# is quite nice.. It is true that Thinkpads have always worked well with linux, and I certainly know people who run windows on linux boxen in VirtualBox, or whatever virtual thing floats your boat.
Common Lisp is pretty unusual these days. Does it have all the libraries you might need?
Well, I used to hate Windows (my first serious programming language was scheme, and Windows is sort of the antithesis of that kind of minimalism), and only started using it when I became involved in finance (Office and Bloomberg) -- all of my actual "IP" is python/awk/sqlite/a bit of java (all of it lives happily on my linux server. Still, UI-wise I would say that Windows 7/8 has pretty much caught up with OS X (I know it's anathema to say this here...), and F# is quite nice.. It is true that Thinkpads have always worked well with linux, and I certainly know people who run windows on linux boxen in VirtualBox, or whatever virtual thing floats your boat.
Common Lisp is pretty unusual these days. Does it have all the libraries you might need?
Common Lisp does have everything I need. Github and Quicklisp make sharing, finding and installing libraries and tools as easy in CL as it is in Ruby (which I started with, still use for scripting and other things)... And of course SBCL + SLIME is an incredible environment... It also seems as though CL has been taken up by quite a few people of my generation (I'm quite young), so the amount of libraries out there written in the last several years is quite significant.
UI-wise, I hate to say it, but I really like Gnome 3 (Shell).
Wow, "the worst analogy ever used", strong words. Do you have any idea WHY they need iPads? I quote from the article:
<span style="font-family:'HelveticaNeue-Light', 'Helvetica Neue Light', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Sans Serif';font-size:15px;line-height:22.796875px;">The iPad's videoconferencing capabilities allow for remote observation and more immediate feedback than was previously possible, according to Hogue.</span>
<span style="font-size:15px;line-height:22.796875px;">Can you name a tablet that does NOT have videoconferencing capabilities? I am a university professor, many of my colleagues (who actually use primarily Apple hardware) videoconference, and they tell me that Google+ hangout is the most reliable thing out there. For that matter, this will work fine on (ahem) an android phone [worse on an iPhone, since that has a smaller screen, but that will work too].</span>
Otherwise, I know many students who survive primarily on ramen noodles, so forcing them to spend money on another device is quite irresponsible, especially since most of them do have smartphones already. Vendor lockin (again) is horrible idea. Notice that software like Skype and Google hangout, while proprietary, is at least free and works on essentially every piece of hardware you can buy today, including phones and laptops and every possible brand of tablet.
So now you're going to force people to get a Google+ account? What next, having class use a specific text book to learn? Oh wait, that exists already.
If they can afford the tuition, they can get an iPad.
So now you're going to force people to get a Google+ account? What next, having class use a specific text book to learn? Oh wait, that exists already.
If they can afford the tuition, they can get an iPad.
I should note that the textbook racket is about the most disgusting racket there is. I am a mathematics professor, among other things, and I can assure you that calculus has not changed much in the last two hundred years. This does not prevent publishers from coming out with a new incompatible edition of their calculus book every couple of years. Why can they get away with it? You guessed it -- vendor lock-in...
Common Lisp does have everything I need. Github and Quicklisp make sharing, finding and installing libraries and tools as easy in CL as it is in Ruby (which I started with, still use for scripting and other things)... And of course SBCL + SLIME is an incredible environment... It also seems as though CL has been taken up by quite a few people of my generation (I'm quite young), so the amount of libraries out there written in the last several years is quite significant.
UI-wise, I hate to say it, but I really like Gnome 3 (Shell).
I should note that the textbook racket is about the most disgusting racket there is. I am a mathematics professor, among other things, and I can assure you that calculus has not changed much in the last two hundred years. This does not prevent publishers from coming out with a new incompatible edition of their calculus book every couple of years. Why can they get away with it? You guessed it -- vendor lock-in...
While I agree with the text book racket, they do have to make money. Sci and engineering students are ripped off the most.
While I agree with the text book racket, they do have to make money. Sci and engineering students are ripped off the most.
They do have to make money, but
1. They don't need to make obscene quantities thereof. Calculus textbook AUTHORS (who make only a small percentage of the profits) rake it in big time (Stewart, of Stewart's calculus has a $20MM house in Toronto).
2. There are, in fact, perfectly good calculus textbooks which are in public domain (this may be less true of engineering books, since the field evolves faster). Why aren't they used? Your guess is as good as mine.
??? This is a link to he root article of this discussion, where the only amazing capability of the iPad is the teleconferencing feature, which, as I had pointed out, is by no means iPad specific (nor even tablet specific). I fear you will have to do better...
1. They don't need to make obscene quantities thereof. Calculus textbook AUTHORS (who make only a small percentage of the profits) rake it in big time (Stewart, of Stewart's calculus has a $20MM house in Toronto).
2. There are, in fact, perfectly good calculus textbooks which are in public domain (this may be less true of engineering books, since the field evolves faster). Why aren't they used? Your guess is as good as mine.
I thought profs can choose a text book they like. In one of my engineering classes, back in the day, our text was a dept prof's draft version.
Now you're getting it. They've deemed the iPad the only device capable of serving up what they want.
What you really mean is they are too lazy to write Android or W8 apps. Or a web app compatible with open web standards, which would actually be the ideal. That way it could be accessed from a phone, tablet, or computer of any make and OS.
There's plenty of universities which are Microsoft and Windows-only, where a Windows device is considered a prerequisite. Is that acceptable to you? Because it isn't to me...
What you really mean is they are too lazy to write Android or W8 apps.
Then that's their problem, isn't it?
Or a web app compatible with open web standards, which would actually be the ideal.
Less functionality is the ideal?
There's plenty of universities which are Microsoft and Windows-only, where a Windows device is considered a prerequisite. Is that acceptable to you? Because it isn't to me...
Fine by me. So don't go to that university. Or go and use your Mac. It's not actually an issue.
Now you're getting it. They've deemed the iPad the only device capable of serving up what they want.
Nah, you can go ahead and leave those goalposts where they are, thanks.
I asked you for an example, not some university administrator's (who likely knows less than either one of us) opinion:
I recently bought a Mercedes E350, and it gets me from point A to point B really well, so from now on all of our students who live off campus are required to buy one -- no, no bicycles, no buses, no Rolls-Royces.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
Please, Linux-based solutions power most critical infrastructure - airports, stock exchanges, military equipment and infrastructure, etc... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/06/08/us_navy_linux_drones/
Windows is crap and everyone knows it, I've seen brand new Windows 8 PCs at the store with the infamous blue screen of death on display... Apple OSX is decent, but closed, with expensive and limited hardware. What do most distributed systems and supercomputers use? Linux of course.
And I don't know if you've ever coded or not, but Linux has the best tools by far for that. I use them everyday to manage information and data that I use to make decisions about trading stocks...
But anyhow, University is supposed to be about propagating knowledge, not pushing specific commercial products.
I agree with much, but not all of this. Firstly, Windows has, historically, been crap, but Win 7/8 is a major leap forward stability-wise (and the UI is quite nice as well now -- it only took them 25 years...), and the windows programming tools are very good IF you like the Windows programming model (everything in one address space). I don't particularly. OS X has pretty much the same tools as linux for programming, but Apple laptops had historically come ready to work out of the box (and the hardware is nice, if expensive) -- linux laptops had been a bit painful, which is why most unix hacks switched to apple hardware, laptop-wise.
That's Apple's secret weapon for selling MBP's shhhhh ....
Oh you bring back bad memories of my English University days ... If I added up all the hours walking to and from, plus those spent in the Library ... then add in the time in the Library trying to find the bloody book I wanted in the bloody library ... OMG it would almost equal the time spent in the University bar* for cripe's sake! Look at how much drinking time you save using an iPad! Genius pure genius.
* foot note for Americans ... age drinking allowed is 18 (as well as dying in the army) in civilized countries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
I agree with much, but not all of this. Firstly, Windows has, historically, been crap, but Win 7/8 is a major leap forward stability-wise (and the UI is quite nice as well now -- it only took them 25 years...), and the windows programming tools are very good IF you like the Windows programming model (everything in one address space). I don't particularly. OS X has pretty much the same tools as linux for programming, but Apple laptops had historically come ready to work out of the box (and the hardware is nice, if expensive) -- linux laptops had been a bit painful, which is why most unix hacks switched to apple hardware, laptop-wise.
Linux on laptops can be completely painless if you do a little research beforehand, and it actually runs very well on Mac hardware, especially the Macbook Air. I also know people running Linux on the new retina Macbooks. Thinkpads (IBM and now Lenovo) tend to do very well with Linux as well.
Windows programming tools are nice if you program in C++, C#, Visual Basic and ASP.NET, or if you're making Windows apps. Trying to install a nice environment for non-MS approved languages on Windows is a huge pain. It is (W7) quite stable, but slow, updates still annoy me, and I find MS Office 2010 likes to crash constantly...
Assuming your system uses hardware that plays nice with Linux, setting up programming environments, servers, virtual systems, cloud infrastructure, etc..., is trivial. I've got an old box that I set up to be a cloud storage server, with a desktop environment easy enough for my wife to use for things like Skype, and syncing her iPhone. It's been up for months, in fact, it's never gone done, except when I update the kernel.
OSX is a decently nice system, I'll give you that, it has all the POSIX tools and it has most of the same benefits that Linux does. Only downside is the restrictive license, and managing dependencies can be slightly tougher on occasion (which is offset by the ready to go working OS).
And finally, keep in mind I'm a finance guy, not a developer. I do program, but only tools for myself (in Ruby and Common Lisp), so while I'm tech savvy, I'm far from a professional...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
Linux on laptops can be completely painless if you do a little research beforehand, and it actually runs very well on Mac hardware, especially the Macbook Air. I also know people running Linux on the new retina Macbooks. Thinkpads (IBM and now Lenovo) tend to do very well with Linux as well.
Windows programming tools are nice if you program in C++, C#, Visual Basic and ASP.NET, or if you're making Windows apps. Trying to install a nice environment for non-MS approved languages on Windows is a huge pain. It is (W7) quite stable, but slow, updates still annoy me, and I find MS Office 2010 likes to crash constantly...
Assuming your system uses hardware that plays nice with Linux, setting up programming environments, servers, virtual systems, cloud infrastructure, etc..., is trivial. I've got an old box that I set up to be a cloud storage server, with a desktop environment easy enough for my wife to use for things like Skype, and syncing her iPhone. It's been up for months, in fact, it's never gone done, except when I update the kernel.
OSX is a decently nice system, I'll give you that, it has all the POSIX tools and it has most of the same benefits that Linux does. Only downside is the restrictive license, and managing dependencies can be slightly tougher on occasion (which is offset by the ready to go working OS).
And finally, keep in mind I'm a finance guy, not a developer. I do program, but only tools for myself (in Ruby and Common Lisp), so while I'm tech savvy, I'm far from a professional...
Well, I used to hate Windows (my first serious programming language was scheme, and Windows is sort of the antithesis of that kind of minimalism), and only started using it when I became involved in finance (Office and Bloomberg) -- all of my actual "IP" is python/awk/sqlite/a bit of java (all of it lives happily on my linux server. Still, UI-wise I would say that Windows 7/8 has pretty much caught up with OS X (I know it's anathema to say this here...), and F# is quite nice.. It is true that Thinkpads have always worked well with linux, and I certainly know people who run windows on linux boxen in VirtualBox, or whatever virtual thing floats your boat.
Common Lisp is pretty unusual these days. Does it have all the libraries you might need?
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
Well, I used to hate Windows (my first serious programming language was scheme, and Windows is sort of the antithesis of that kind of minimalism), and only started using it when I became involved in finance (Office and Bloomberg) -- all of my actual "IP" is python/awk/sqlite/a bit of java (all of it lives happily on my linux server. Still, UI-wise I would say that Windows 7/8 has pretty much caught up with OS X (I know it's anathema to say this here...), and F# is quite nice.. It is true that Thinkpads have always worked well with linux, and I certainly know people who run windows on linux boxen in VirtualBox, or whatever virtual thing floats your boat.
Common Lisp is pretty unusual these days. Does it have all the libraries you might need?
Common Lisp does have everything I need. Github and Quicklisp make sharing, finding and installing libraries and tools as easy in CL as it is in Ruby (which I started with, still use for scripting and other things)... And of course SBCL + SLIME is an incredible environment... It also seems as though CL has been taken up by quite a few people of my generation (I'm quite young), so the amount of libraries out there written in the last several years is quite significant.
UI-wise, I hate to say it, but I really like Gnome 3 (Shell).
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
But anyhow, University is supposed to be about propagating knowledge, not pushing specific commercial products.
How about when the knowledge can only be imparted by using a specific device, regardless of the manufacturer?
So now you're going to force people to get a Google+ account? What next, having class use a specific text book to learn? Oh wait, that exists already.
If they can afford the tuition, they can get an iPad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
So now you're going to force people to get a Google+ account? What next, having class use a specific text book to learn? Oh wait, that exists already.
If they can afford the tuition, they can get an iPad.
I should note that the textbook racket is about the most disgusting racket there is. I am a mathematics professor, among other things, and I can assure you that calculus has not changed much in the last two hundred years. This does not prevent publishers from coming out with a new incompatible edition of their calculus book every couple of years. Why can they get away with it? You guessed it -- vendor lock-in...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
How about when the knowledge can only be imparted by using a specific device, regardless of the manufacturer?
How about you give an example of when this is actually the case?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
Common Lisp does have everything I need. Github and Quicklisp make sharing, finding and installing libraries and tools as easy in CL as it is in Ruby (which I started with, still use for scripting and other things)... And of course SBCL + SLIME is an incredible environment... It also seems as though CL has been taken up by quite a few people of my generation (I'm quite young), so the amount of libraries out there written in the last several years is quite significant.
UI-wise, I hate to say it, but I really like Gnome 3 (Shell).
Interesting, re CL, I will check it out...
Originally Posted by igriv
How about you give an example of when this is actually the case?
Here's one.
While I agree with the text book racket, they do have to make money. Sci and engineering students are ripped off the most.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
While I agree with the text book racket, they do have to make money. Sci and engineering students are ripped off the most.
They do have to make money, but
1. They don't need to make obscene quantities thereof. Calculus textbook AUTHORS (who make only a small percentage of the profits) rake it in big time (Stewart, of Stewart's calculus has a $20MM house in Toronto).
2. There are, in fact, perfectly good calculus textbooks which are in public domain (this may be less true of engineering books, since the field evolves faster). Why aren't they used? Your guess is as good as mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Here's one.
??? This is a link to he root article of this discussion, where the only amazing capability of the iPad is the teleconferencing feature, which, as I had pointed out, is by no means iPad specific (nor even tablet specific). I fear you will have to do better...
Originally Posted by igriv
This is a link to he root article of this discussion
Now you're getting it. They've deemed the iPad the only device capable of serving up what they want.
I fear you will have to do better...
Nah, you can go ahead and leave those goalposts where they are, thanks.
I thought profs can choose a text book they like. In one of my engineering classes, back in the day, our text was a dept prof's draft version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Now you're getting it. They've deemed the iPad the only device capable of serving up what they want.
What you really mean is they are too lazy to write Android or W8 apps. Or a web app compatible with open web standards, which would actually be the ideal. That way it could be accessed from a phone, tablet, or computer of any make and OS.
There's plenty of universities which are Microsoft and Windows-only, where a Windows device is considered a prerequisite. Is that acceptable to you? Because it isn't to me...
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
What you really mean is they are too lazy to write Android or W8 apps.
Then that's their problem, isn't it?
Or a web app compatible with open web standards, which would actually be the ideal.
Less functionality is the ideal?
There's plenty of universities which are Microsoft and Windows-only, where a Windows device is considered a prerequisite. Is that acceptable to you? Because it isn't to me...
Fine by me. So don't go to that university. Or go and use your Mac. It's not actually an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Now you're getting it. They've deemed the iPad the only device capable of serving up what they want.
Nah, you can go ahead and leave those goalposts where they are, thanks.
I asked you for an example, not some university administrator's (who likely knows less than either one of us) opinion:
I recently bought a Mercedes E350, and it gets me from point A to point B really well, so from now on all of our students who live off campus are required to buy one -- no, no bicycles, no buses, no Rolls-Royces.