True, advanced and secure finger print recognition would be a nice thing to have on Apple phones. As for NFC, even though a few Android phones have it, it hasn't taken off at all, and we all know that it won't until Apple adopts it, as Android has no sway in the real world or the retail world. Retailers are interested in customers who actually spend money, not cheap bums.
This sure beats other useless "innovations", such as those anti-social spy glasses made for perverts and sex offenders. Seriously, if somebody walks up to me with those glasses on and starts to ask me a question, I would have to consider punching them in their face, as I value my privacy and I refuse to be recorded.
IMO putting it under the home button would be stupid and awkward. I continue to believe that this is just an assumption on the part of Analysts who can't conceive of anything else. The technology they just bought was for integrating fingerprint scanners into screens, not home buttons.
We all know that anyone can make the hardware. Android proves that time and time again. What they can't do is the software to support it.
NFC chip: check. Infrastructure to really make NFC payments take off: Umm.
Apple will kill on the software/retailer side. They will give away a small NFC xmitter, which looks like a very small Apple TV, to all retailers. It will connect to the iTunes ecosystem. They will partner with Starbucks and Target to make it take off, but nearly all other retailers will jump onboard.
It'll be Passbook-like in functionality. Walk into a Target, go up to the cash register, the cashier sees that you're iPhone 5S/6 NFC-enabled, you walk out.
What's next, Al Gore the scammer will try to impose RFID linked carbon taxation to everyone, due to the global warming farce?! Time to break free of these snake oil salesmen.
If it's fast, this will be really nice. I'm too lazy to use the 4-digit code to unlock my phone each time, but if I can just touch it with my thumb to unlock, I will use it. Maybe this will be part of a larger effort to secure these devices and make them less attractive to thieves, and the S is for "secure" this time.
OMG, every time I read "rumour" in the article / title I want to scream, every time I read "
analyst" in the article I want to find so-called scumbag analyst and beat the crap out of him!
These people are paid ridiculous sums of money to talk out of their asses, makes me sick.
Since Apple has decided that they don't want to announce anything, what else besides rumours and analysis do you expect to read? There is nothing else to report, and this is Apple's fault. With Google you can talk about Google Glass, about self driving cars, but with Apple you can only talk rumours. In my opinion this is stupid. It might have worked when they were a small company, but not now when they are the biggest corporation on Earth. Inverstors and average people want to know what is Apple doing, what are they working on. If they don't say anything the investors might assume that Apple is probably working at... nothing! And sell the stock!
Can't fingerprint sensors be fooled by using a latex glove?
I don't know much about fingerprint tech, but it makes sense to me that the answer would have to be no. If Apple implements fingerprint tech, it's not going to be like useless and easily fooled face recognition tech that some Fandroids were boasting about a while ago. This finger print tech needs to be very secure and not easily bypassed, otherwise what's the point?
I guess that a thief could always chop off somebody's finger, that sounds like one way to gain access to somebody's device.
NFC would be a step in the right direction for them.
NFC is useless and insecure, so unless by "right direction" you mean backwards (and you hate them) then no.
I'm not sure why it's mentioned in the same breath as the fingerprint deal all the time either. You don't need NFC to have a fingerprint sensor (which is a good idea BTW), and you don't need a fingerprint sensor to "authenticate" NFC. They are rarely used together, neither needs the other, and the absence of either one doesn't make the other fail.
Out of the two, it's far more likely they would go with the fingerprint technology and it would be more useful integrated into the screen than it would under the home button.
... Can't fingerprint sensors be fooled by using a latex glove?
The technology they recently bought is supposed to be able to tell the difference between living and dead flesh so you can't do the "latex glove trick" or the "cut off your bosses finger" trick (supposedly).
Is the home button really big enough to scan a fingerprint?
A full-sized fingerprint, such as those taken by the police, are of the entire surface of the first section of one's finger. The current home button is maybe only half that size, if that. I doubt that Apple would make the home button any bigger just to accommodate this.
Are there any fingerprint scanning experts here who can shed some light on this?
NFC Spychips in iPhone, NO THANKS!!!! Guess it is time to stop buying iPhone!
The NFC in a phone is a READER, not a tracking chip like you're worried about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
NFC is useless and insecure, so unless by "right direction" you mean backwards (and you hate them) then no.
NFC is not insecure. It's a comm method, that's all. Security is up to the protocol above it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
jragosta. A fandroid. That's a good one!
Well, he does post an awful lot of fantasy scenarios like this example. If you read fast and didn't know he was trying to be funny, you might think he was promoting Samsung / Android.
Quote:
Can't fingerprint sensors be fooled by using a latex glove?
Even the cheap visual sensors come with software that checks for recent exact matches, which... opposite of what many people would think... are considered to be faking attempts, since exact matches rarely happen. So a glove usually won't work.
Sensors like the Authentec version, use capacitance to measure the skin ridges in your fingerprint, similar to the way touchscreens work, but far more sensitive. This not only makes it extra difficult to fool, but probably requires a live human, so cutting off a finger won't help a thief. Of course, that fact would need to be heavily advertised !
NFC is useless and insecure, so unless by "right direction" you mean backwards (and you hate them) then no.
Curious- what would you suggest to improve mobile payment or an alternative to NFC? Currently- there are dozens of stores around me that support NFC. None support Bluetooth, etc. Useless is subjective- I don't believe because of all the stores around me that support it- and I would love to not bring my wallet in. Insecure is also subjective depending on what you believe "Secure" to be. Hey- Some people don't believe online banking is secure.
Again- not tearing down your post, but asking what a viable alternative would be.
The technology they recently bought is supposed to be able to tell the difference between living and dead flesh so you can't do the "latex glove trick" or the "cut off your bosses finger" trick (supposedly).
Sure, but how does it know it's living tissue? Could having really cold hands give a false reading of dead tissue? Could pumping a saline-based fluid and inducing some electrical signal through the severed digit give a positive reading? If you're going to cut of a finger to gain access to a phone I don't think those other steps will be a deal breaker.
I hope this is true, yet will they have multi touch trackpad(like MacBook ones) so it will work with motion gestures. Hay maybe with that and a Bluetooth keyboard the IPad will work.
What's next, Al Gore the scammer will try to impose RFID linked carbon taxation to everyone, due to the global warming farce?! Time to break free of these snake oil salesmen.
Finally someone with an ounce of sense speaks up! My wife has a GNex, and I've turned off the NFC on that phone, and if it ever comes to iPhone, that's the FIRST function I disable!
Although the fingerprint scanner would be a nice touch...
Sure, but how does it know it's living tissue? Could having really cold hands give a false reading of dead tissue? Could pumping a saline-based fluid and inducing some electrical signal through the severed digit give a positive reading? If you're going to cut of a finger to gain access to a phone I don't think those other steps will be a deal breaker.
Yeah, thus my use of "supposed" twice.
there is always a way around these sorts of things. Not the least of which is the fact that fingerprints are actually not that unique. In any reasonably large city for example there is usually at least a few people with fingerprints so similar that you can't tell them apart.
Curious- what would you suggest to improve mobile payment or an alternative to NFC? Currently- there are dozens of stores around me that support NFC. None support Bluetooth, etc. Useless is subjective- I don't believe because of all the stores around me that support it- and I would love to not bring my wallet in. Insecure is also subjective depending on what you believe "Secure" to be. Hey- Some people don't believe online banking is secure.
Again- not tearing down your post, but asking what a viable alternative would be.
Well, my comment about "insecure" is just based on me reading lots of articles that say that it NFC is inherently insecure, easy to hack etc. I don't have any references but I'm sure they are easy to find. The fact that I don't suggest an alternative is of no bearing on whether or not NFC is a good choice.
My personal experience with NFC is that the customers are suspicious of it, and the stores are loathe to implement it. It tends to shave a few seconds off of doing the transaction with a PIN but most of the places where the user could benefit from those seconds (restaurants, coffee, etc.) are places that run on tips and NFC makes tipping practically impossible. That's why many coffee places aren't implementing it from what I understand.
Apple's Passbook feature is about the same level of security and more or less the same ease of use. I would guess that the fingerprint scanning will be tied to Passbook in order to make customers feel easier about tying their credit card to it, but they might include NFC as well just because some people have it.
Comments
True, advanced and secure finger print recognition would be a nice thing to have on Apple phones. As for NFC, even though a few Android phones have it, it hasn't taken off at all, and we all know that it won't until Apple adopts it, as Android has no sway in the real world or the retail world. Retailers are interested in customers who actually spend money, not cheap bums.
This sure beats other useless "innovations", such as those anti-social spy glasses made for perverts and sex offenders. Seriously, if somebody walks up to me with those glasses on and starts to ask me a question, I would have to consider punching them in their face, as I value my privacy and I refuse to be recorded.
IMO putting it under the home button would be stupid and awkward. I continue to believe that this is just an assumption on the part of Analysts who can't conceive of anything else. The technology they just bought was for integrating fingerprint scanners into screens, not home buttons.
NFC chip: check.
Infrastructure to really make NFC payments take off: Umm.
Apple will kill on the software/retailer side. They will give away a small NFC xmitter, which looks like a very small Apple TV, to all retailers. It will connect to the iTunes ecosystem. They will partner with Starbucks and Target to make it take off, but nearly all other retailers will jump onboard.
It'll be Passbook-like in functionality. Walk into a Target, go up to the cash register, the cashier sees that you're iPhone 5S/6 NFC-enabled, you walk out.
See the book http://spychips.com
Watch the documentary movie:
http://freedomtofascism.com
What's next, Al Gore the scammer will try to impose RFID linked carbon taxation to everyone, due to the global warming farce?! Time to break free of these snake oil salesmen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagMan1979
OMG, every time I read "rumour" in the article / title I want to scream, every time I read "
analyst" in the article I want to find so-called scumbag analyst and beat the crap out of him!
These people are paid ridiculous sums of money to talk out of their asses, makes me sick.
Since Apple has decided that they don't want to announce anything, what else besides rumours and analysis do you expect to read? There is nothing else to report, and this is Apple's fault. With Google you can talk about Google Glass, about self driving cars, but with Apple you can only talk rumours. In my opinion this is stupid. It might have worked when they were a small company, but not now when they are the biggest corporation on Earth. Inverstors and average people want to know what is Apple doing, what are they working on. If they don't say anything the investors might assume that Apple is probably working at... nothing! And sell the stock!
Originally Posted by Ryuk
You android fans aka noid why are u guys on here can't u find a android insider site including you { jragosta}
jragosta. A fandroid. That's a good one!
Originally Posted by Retrogusto
Maybe this will be part of a larger effort to secure these devices and make them less attractive to thieves, and the S is for "secure" this time.
Can't fingerprint sensors be fooled by using a latex glove?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Can't fingerprint sensors be fooled by using a latex glove?
I don't know much about fingerprint tech, but it makes sense to me that the answer would have to be no. If Apple implements fingerprint tech, it's not going to be like useless and easily fooled face recognition tech that some Fandroids were boasting about a while ago. This finger print tech needs to be very secure and not easily bypassed, otherwise what's the point?
I guess that a thief could always chop off somebody's finger, that sounds like one way to gain access to somebody's device.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook
NFC would be a step in the right direction for them.
NFC is useless and insecure, so unless by "right direction" you mean backwards (and you hate them) then no.
I'm not sure why it's mentioned in the same breath as the fingerprint deal all the time either. You don't need NFC to have a fingerprint sensor (which is a good idea BTW), and you don't need a fingerprint sensor to "authenticate" NFC. They are rarely used together, neither needs the other, and the absence of either one doesn't make the other fail.
Out of the two, it's far more likely they would go with the fingerprint technology and it would be more useful integrated into the screen than it would under the home button.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
... Can't fingerprint sensors be fooled by using a latex glove?
The technology they recently bought is supposed to be able to tell the difference between living and dead flesh so you can't do the "latex glove trick" or the "cut off your bosses finger" trick (supposedly).
Is the home button really big enough to scan a fingerprint?
A full-sized fingerprint, such as those taken by the police, are of the entire surface of the first section of one's finger. The current home button is maybe only half that size, if that. I doubt that Apple would make the home button any bigger just to accommodate this.
Are there any fingerprint scanning experts here who can shed some light on this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall
NFC Spychips in iPhone, NO THANKS!!!! Guess it is time to stop buying iPhone!
The NFC in a phone is a READER, not a tracking chip like you're worried about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
NFC is useless and insecure, so unless by "right direction" you mean backwards (and you hate them) then no.
NFC is not insecure. It's a comm method, that's all. Security is up to the protocol above it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
jragosta. A fandroid. That's a good one!
Well, he does post an awful lot of fantasy scenarios like this example. If you read fast and didn't know he was trying to be funny, you might think he was promoting Samsung / Android.
Quote:
Can't fingerprint sensors be fooled by using a latex glove?
Even the cheap visual sensors come with software that checks for recent exact matches, which... opposite of what many people would think... are considered to be faking attempts, since exact matches rarely happen. So a glove usually won't work.
Sensors like the Authentec version, use capacitance to measure the skin ridges in your fingerprint, similar to the way touchscreens work, but far more sensitive. This not only makes it extra difficult to fool, but probably requires a live human, so cutting off a finger won't help a thief. Of course, that fact would need to be heavily advertised !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
NFC is useless and insecure, so unless by "right direction" you mean backwards (and you hate them) then no.
Curious- what would you suggest to improve mobile payment or an alternative to NFC? Currently- there are dozens of stores around me that support NFC. None support Bluetooth, etc. Useless is subjective- I don't believe because of all the stores around me that support it- and I would love to not bring my wallet in. Insecure is also subjective depending on what you believe "Secure" to be. Hey- Some people don't believe online banking is secure.
Again- not tearing down your post, but asking what a viable alternative would be.
Sure, but how does it know it's living tissue? Could having really cold hands give a false reading of dead tissue? Could pumping a saline-based fluid and inducing some electrical signal through the severed digit give a positive reading? If you're going to cut of a finger to gain access to a phone I don't think those other steps will be a deal breaker.
I hope the rumor is true. Would be a pretty nice feature. Much better than the eye-scrolling tech that Samsung is rolling out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall
NFC Spychips in iPhone, NO THANKS!!!! Guess it is time to stop buying iPhone!
See the book http://spychips.org
Watch the documentary movie:
http://freedomtofascism.com
What's next, Al Gore the scammer will try to impose RFID linked carbon taxation to everyone, due to the global warming farce?! Time to break free of these snake oil salesmen.
Finally someone with an ounce of sense speaks up! My wife has a GNex, and I've turned off the NFC on that phone, and if it ever comes to iPhone, that's the FIRST function I disable!
Although the fingerprint scanner would be a nice touch...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Sure, but how does it know it's living tissue? Could having really cold hands give a false reading of dead tissue? Could pumping a saline-based fluid and inducing some electrical signal through the severed digit give a positive reading? If you're going to cut of a finger to gain access to a phone I don't think those other steps will be a deal breaker.
Yeah, thus my use of "supposed" twice.
there is always a way around these sorts of things. Not the least of which is the fact that fingerprints are actually not that unique. In any reasonably large city for example there is usually at least a few people with fingerprints so similar that you can't tell them apart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol
Curious- what would you suggest to improve mobile payment or an alternative to NFC? Currently- there are dozens of stores around me that support NFC. None support Bluetooth, etc. Useless is subjective- I don't believe because of all the stores around me that support it- and I would love to not bring my wallet in. Insecure is also subjective depending on what you believe "Secure" to be. Hey- Some people don't believe online banking is secure.
Again- not tearing down your post, but asking what a viable alternative would be.
Well, my comment about "insecure" is just based on me reading lots of articles that say that it NFC is inherently insecure, easy to hack etc. I don't have any references but I'm sure they are easy to find. The fact that I don't suggest an alternative is of no bearing on whether or not NFC is a good choice.
My personal experience with NFC is that the customers are suspicious of it, and the stores are loathe to implement it. It tends to shave a few seconds off of doing the transaction with a PIN but most of the places where the user could benefit from those seconds (restaurants, coffee, etc.) are places that run on tips and NFC makes tipping practically impossible. That's why many coffee places aren't implementing it from what I understand.
Apple's Passbook feature is about the same level of security and more or less the same ease of use. I would guess that the fingerprint scanning will be tied to Passbook in order to make customers feel easier about tying their credit card to it, but they might include NFC as well just because some people have it.