Has this thread just descended into "Name your favourite console games and complain that they aren't on iOS" ?
People need to make up their minds - does iOS need its own catalogue of high-budget, AAA games, or does it need a bunch of ports will ill-suited controls.
I'm in favour of the former, and I don't think there's any practical reason why it can't have them, it just doesn't yet. I don't see any reason to think that the Ouya will be any different.
Yes you are engaged. Holding a device in your hand and physically touching the characters, controls, etc. on-screen is far more intimate than mashing buttons on a controller while watching your TV 10 feet away. That's one reason why iPad is vastly more successful than Windows Slates / UMPCs were over the last 12 years. Because they all required a stylus. The engagement created by physically touching the screen of an iPad is drastically underestimated.
I hear where you're coming from, and I find that the touch screen makes controls on productivity apps potentially (and often) more intuitive, but I'm a bit more dubious about it's value in bringing you deeper in to a game.
On a PC, after playing a new game for an hour or two, you have the controls down pat and you just forget about your hands, never looking at them. So your face is permanently focussed on the screen, without your hands coming in to and out of view, sometimes occluding the picture like on a touchscreen. It helps to draw you in to the game world when it's all that you're looking at, without the real world (your hands) flashing in to and out of view all the time. You can also relax more without the weight of the iPad reminding you of reality (unless you have set it down).
Speaking at <em>Engadget</em>'s Expand conference, Ouya CEO Julie Uhrman panned the state of mobile gaming, saying that the experience users get on tablets such as Apple's iPad and iPhone isn't as full as what's possible on consoles.
"You're not having an emotional experience on a tablet," Uhrman explained, asked about what makes the Android-based Ouya console stand out from the larger trend toward mobile gaming. "You're not engaged. It's more of a distraction."
Is it any different than you who's serious about Apple? So much so that you've become a moderator in one of its more popular fan websites.
Huh?
I don't know.
I do find it funny that people come here and tell us "Apples are toys", then tell us about Windows computers for "serious gaming", which is pretty much means the device it's played on is a toy. If it's for serious use, such as training, then it's called a simulator. Most of those are pretty elaborate rigs.
I do find it funny that people come here and tell us "Apples are toys", then tell us about Windows computers for "serious gaming", which is pretty much means the device it's played on is a toy. If it's for serious use, such as training, then it's called a simulator. Most of those are pretty elaborate rigs.
By 'serious gaming' I mean that people take it seriously and not that the games are serious. Many people devote hours out of their day to play games. I used to be one of them. I've played is such intense fashion that only during a quick break in the action did I finally realize my bladder was about to explode, now if that's not serious I don't know what is.
I think there's huge potential for this system. There's some great mobile games which are almost throwbacks to old-school gaming (Kairosoft titles for instance), some which are nearly AAA visual quality (but run well with lower specs), some cool platformers and of course casual games. For casual games (like Angry Birds or Cut the Rope) a phone/tablet is much better, but the other categories of games will be more engaging on a console with controller.
Throwback RPGs are probably my favourite category, and this console is perfect for indie developers to create for. Say what you want about Android development, the fact that all the tools (Eclipse, SDK, NDK) are easily installable on any computer (Windows, Mac and Linux) is a huge boon to small-time developers. And while alot of indie games suck, there's some gems out there, which make a console like this worthwhile...
By 'serious gaming' I mean that people take it seriously and not that the games are serious. Many people devote hours out of their day to play games. I used to be one of them. I've played is such intense fashion that only during a quick break in the action did I finally realize my bladder was about to explode, now if that's not serious I don't know what is.
By 'serious gaming' I mean that people take it seriously and not that the games are serious. Many people devote hours out of their day to play games. I used to be one of them. I've played is such intense fashion that only during a quick break in the action did I finally realize my bladder was about to explode, now if that's not serious I don't know what is.
So your point is that iOS games don't encourage mental illness the way console or PC games do?
All the people supporting Ouya on this one think that these high end photorealistic 100 fps action games are the only way to have an emotional experience. That's just plain nonsense. One can enjoy iOS games just as much. And there are plenty of non-game experiences involving electronics that can be enjoyable as well.
It's OK if you like some supercharged game that requires the latest computer hardware to play well. I don't have any problem with that. But please stop trying to tell me that that's the ONLY way to enjoy a game.
As previously mentioned I've gotten very focused and, dare I say, emotional playing Words with Friends (and Chess with Friends) against friends and family members. Something about playing a real person seems more engaging to me. I guess I'm just weird that way.
You could say that playing board games is more engaging than reading books. You seem to be implying that playing word games with your mother is more social and therefore better than any single user experience but people who spend hours reading immersive stories might describe playing board games as vacuous and repetitive.
There's also a limit to how varied casual games get. When you increase the complexity of the medium, you have more variables to work with. Think about how many popular board games there are compared to books. While casual games are vast in number, they usually don't bring much variety to what's already in the market. This happens with AAA games too but they mostly have vastly different dialog, characters, environments and gameplay styles.
Again, that's not to say mobile games can't be deep - just look at a game like Broken Sword, which plays on anything these days - but that's not a casual game. When people talk about casual games, it's games like Doodle Jump. No story, no character, not social, poor production values, cheap and sells a lot of copies and represents the typical mobile game. It's addictive for some but addictive is not equal to immersive.
I feel like the main reasons gamers have gone to phones / tablets are
There has been a rise in the number of mobile/causal gamers but people who love the AAA titles aren't abandoning them. They still sell in high numbers. Hitman Absolution sold 2 million copies in the first month and these are high priced titles. I don't see it like abandonment but different levels of growth. The main abandonment is from mobile gaming devices like the DS and Vita.
Lots of people enjoy playing mobile games. There are lots of people who do NOT enjoy your kind of high end games.
Do you or anyone else have a list of recommended mobile games? I rarely hear mobile game recommendations, just news about how well mobile gaming is doing because of the volumes of sales. I think people buy the popular titles in the store charts to have something else to do with their devices and the bulk of the App Store earnings go to these titles but people don't have watercooler discussions about them.
does iOS need its own catalogue of high-budget, AAA games, or does it need a bunch of ports will ill-suited controls.
I'm in favour of the former, and I don't think there's any practical reason why it can't have them, it just doesn't yet. I don't see any reason to think that the Ouya will be any different.
The Ouya will stream AAA PC games - some will be simultaneous launches with the consoles. There's nothing stopping the Apple TV doing it but Apple blocked the app from the App Store so you can't even Airplay it although HDMI would be better because of the latency.
I find that the touch screen makes controls on productivity apps potentially (and often) more intuitive, but I'm a bit more dubious about it's value in bringing you deeper in to a game.
Touch can improve games, for example The Room where you have to interact with objects using gestures - it makes you more focused on what you're doing. It doesn't work quite so well for FPS games because the controls there are fairly standard. It actually works pretty well for NFS though and it's great for adventure games like 1112.
I do find it funny that people come here and tell us "Apples are toys", then tell us about Windows computers for "serious gaming", which is pretty much means the device it's played on is a toy.
It depends on how you're using the word 'toy'. Often it's used to mean something basic that only children find entertaining but a sex toy is something designed for adults. There are toys (or to use a less intentionally demeaning term 'forms of entertainment') designed for adults. That includes books, movies, games etc.
There's only a handful of situations where Apple's designs put complexity limits on things, which restricts what they can be used for but you can certainly play games designed for adults on Apple products. It's just they tend not to be ported over. The Witcher 2 is a good example though - Mac native and definitely designed for adults.
It's addictive for some but addictive is not equal to immersive.s.
I think immersive is a better word that emotional. I seriously can't imagine anyone that gets emotional and cries playing a video game. The next think you know we'll have an Amber Alert issued the next time Princess Zelda is kidnapped¡
It would be nice to see Valve get round their hang-ups about Apple and port the Orange Box to iOS. The hardware should be powerful enough now.
Won't happen. Apple wants control, and Valve won't give it up. Which is why Valve is porting everything to Linux, and their console will essentially be a Linux PC...
The Ouya will stream AAA PC games - some will be simultaneous launches with the consoles. There's nothing stopping the Apple TV doing it but Apple blocked the app from the App Store so you can't even Airplay it although HDMI would be better because of the latency.
Playing laggy PC games with a software keyboard and mouse? I'm glad that one wasn't even allowed the possibility of room to breathe tbh, sounds like a terrible idea. Ouya is welcome to it.
I think immersive is a better word that emotional. I seriously can't imagine anyone that gets emotional and cries playing a video game. The next think you know we'll have an Amber Alert issued the next time Princess Zelda is kidnapped¡
Yeah I'd say it would be the exception that people get that emotional while playing a game but the same goes for films. It would most often be due to a directed cut-scene during the game that would be the most emotional not the game itself. The game adds to it as the cut-scenes involve characters that you are controlling. More powerful hardware is allowing the two to blend together more seamlessly though. The people who made the Kara video demo made the game Heavy Rain and bringing stronger acting and emotion into a game at the expense of action was their aim:
[VIDEO]
You can do that on weaker hardware but you can see even in that video, the characters just don't look right. LA Noire is another example of a high-end game that isn't much about action:
[VIDEO]
These games are trying to be more like interactive movies. The most common emotion developers seem to aim for is fear and anxiety because it has more of a formulaic source. The most recent Tomb Raider game is an example:
[VIDEO]
In pretty much every game in the series previous to that, the focal point was how big her boobs were. I didn't think they had to that away necessarily but the focal point now is on the story of her being trapped on an island and going through the survival routine and they did a pretty good job.
Won't happen. Apple wants control, and Valve won't give it up. Which is why Valve is porting everything to Linux, and their console will essentially be a Linux PC...
You could also word that 'Valve wants control and won't give it up' given that they are against Microsoft too. Valve doesn't build the platforms so by all rights they shouldn't have the control. Gabe said they wanted to allow 3rd parties to have their own stores so there's no reason why there couldn't be a branded section of the App Store. Apple already has a 'Big Name games' section. They could partner with Valve and offer a Steam section or just have branded sections for AAA publishers. Like Youtube channels.
There's going to be quite a competitive environment just now between all of the people involved in digital distribution: Microsoft, Amazon, EA, Valve, Apple, Google. They all need to protect their cut of digital distribution because it's the most sustainable form of long-term income generation. Hardware will get cheaper and less relevant but everybody will always consume and pay for quality content. This has to be why everybody wants their own operating system. Unfortunately I don't think there's an alternative model where they can all gain and avoid harming consumers with vendor lock-in.
Playing laggy PC games with a software keyboard and mouse?
They work with a controller, it's not any different from playing a console really. Try it out yourself if you like: http://www.onlive.com - you can plug in a USB or bluetooth controller from Amazon, XBox / PS3 / Logitech controller. It's free to signup and play. You get half hour demos on a lot of games. There is some lag but it depends on your connection, wired is best.
Wrong. What you described was classical obsessive behavior.
Not necessarily. When in battle whether real or perceived one's attention is at the the threat or objective and bodily functions are ignored until the threat is gone. It's not different when a athlete doesn't realize how hurt he/she is until after the game.
Comments
People need to make up their minds - does iOS need its own catalogue of high-budget, AAA games, or does it need a bunch of ports will ill-suited controls.
I'm in favour of the former, and I don't think there's any practical reason why it can't have them, it just doesn't yet. I don't see any reason to think that the Ouya will be any different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid
Yes you are engaged. Holding a device in your hand and physically touching the characters, controls, etc. on-screen is far more intimate than mashing buttons on a controller while watching your TV 10 feet away. That's one reason why iPad is vastly more successful than Windows Slates / UMPCs were over the last 12 years. Because they all required a stylus. The engagement created by physically touching the screen of an iPad is drastically underestimated.
I hear where you're coming from, and I find that the touch screen makes controls on productivity apps potentially (and often) more intuitive, but I'm a bit more dubious about it's value in bringing you deeper in to a game.
On a PC, after playing a new game for an hour or two, you have the controls down pat and you just forget about your hands, never looking at them. So your face is permanently focussed on the screen, without your hands coming in to and out of view, sometimes occluding the picture like on a touchscreen. It helps to draw you in to the game world when it's all that you're looking at, without the real world (your hands) flashing in to and out of view all the time. You can also relax more without the weight of the iPad reminding you of reality (unless you have set it down).
You're playing it wrong.
Huh?
I don't know.
I do find it funny that people come here and tell us "Apples are toys", then tell us about Windows computers for "serious gaming", which is pretty much means the device it's played on is a toy. If it's for serious use, such as training, then it's called a simulator. Most of those are pretty elaborate rigs.
By 'serious gaming' I mean that people take it seriously and not that the games are serious. Many people devote hours out of their day to play games. I used to be one of them. I've played is such intense fashion that only during a quick break in the action did I finally realize my bladder was about to explode, now if that's not serious I don't know what is.
I think there's huge potential for this system. There's some great mobile games which are almost throwbacks to old-school gaming (Kairosoft titles for instance), some which are nearly AAA visual quality (but run well with lower specs), some cool platformers and of course casual games. For casual games (like Angry Birds or Cut the Rope) a phone/tablet is much better, but the other categories of games will be more engaging on a console with controller.
Throwback RPGs are probably my favourite category, and this console is perfect for indie developers to create for. Say what you want about Android development, the fact that all the tools (Eclipse, SDK, NDK) are easily installable on any computer (Windows, Mac and Linux) is a huge boon to small-time developers. And while alot of indie games suck, there's some gems out there, which make a console like this worthwhile...
I'd say that's probably worth calling obsessive.
So your point is that iOS games don't encourage mental illness the way console or PC games do?
Ouya runs mobile games natively:
http://www.joystiq.com/2013/02/06/ouya-partners-with-double-fine-and-words-with-friends-creator/
The only way it will run high-end games is via streaming but it handles both markets and is really what many people wanted the Apple TV to do.
You could say that playing board games is more engaging than reading books. You seem to be implying that playing word games with your mother is more social and therefore better than any single user experience but people who spend hours reading immersive stories might describe playing board games as vacuous and repetitive.
There's also a limit to how varied casual games get. When you increase the complexity of the medium, you have more variables to work with. Think about how many popular board games there are compared to books. While casual games are vast in number, they usually don't bring much variety to what's already in the market. This happens with AAA games too but they mostly have vastly different dialog, characters, environments and gameplay styles.
Again, that's not to say mobile games can't be deep - just look at a game like Broken Sword, which plays on anything these days - but that's not a casual game. When people talk about casual games, it's games like Doodle Jump. No story, no character, not social, poor production values, cheap and sells a lot of copies and represents the typical mobile game. It's addictive for some but addictive is not equal to immersive.
There has been a rise in the number of mobile/causal gamers but people who love the AAA titles aren't abandoning them. They still sell in high numbers. Hitman Absolution sold 2 million copies in the first month and these are high priced titles. I don't see it like abandonment but different levels of growth. The main abandonment is from mobile gaming devices like the DS and Vita.
Do you or anyone else have a list of recommended mobile games? I rarely hear mobile game recommendations, just news about how well mobile gaming is doing because of the volumes of sales. I think people buy the popular titles in the store charts to have something else to do with their devices and the bulk of the App Store earnings go to these titles but people don't have watercooler discussions about them.
It would be nice to see Valve get round their hang-ups about Apple and port the Orange Box to iOS. The hardware should be powerful enough now.
The Ouya will stream AAA PC games - some will be simultaneous launches with the consoles. There's nothing stopping the Apple TV doing it but Apple blocked the app from the App Store so you can't even Airplay it although HDMI would be better because of the latency.
Touch can improve games, for example The Room where you have to interact with objects using gestures - it makes you more focused on what you're doing. It doesn't work quite so well for FPS games because the controls there are fairly standard. It actually works pretty well for NFS though and it's great for adventure games like 1112.
It depends on how you're using the word 'toy'. Often it's used to mean something basic that only children find entertaining but a sex toy is something designed for adults. There are toys (or to use a less intentionally demeaning term 'forms of entertainment') designed for adults. That includes books, movies, games etc.
There's only a handful of situations where Apple's designs put complexity limits on things, which restricts what they can be used for but you can certainly play games designed for adults on Apple products. It's just they tend not to be ported over. The Witcher 2 is a good example though - Mac native and definitely designed for adults.
It's not anymore mentally ill than being on here arguing points that most people don't care about. We all pick a poison to be passionate about.
I think immersive is a better word that emotional. I seriously can't imagine anyone that gets emotional and cries playing a video game. The next think you know we'll have an Amber Alert issued the next time Princess Zelda is kidnapped¡
I bought it was "Booya!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
It would be nice to see Valve get round their hang-ups about Apple and port the Orange Box to iOS. The hardware should be powerful enough now.
Won't happen. Apple wants control, and Valve won't give it up. Which is why Valve is porting everything to Linux, and their console will essentially be a Linux PC...
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
Won't happen. Apple wants control, and Valve won't give it up.
There's zero operational reason not to do it. The only thing it will be "missing" is a Steam 'overlay'. The games themselves can go without trouble.
Yeah I'd say it would be the exception that people get that emotional while playing a game but the same goes for films. It would most often be due to a directed cut-scene during the game that would be the most emotional not the game itself. The game adds to it as the cut-scenes involve characters that you are controlling. More powerful hardware is allowing the two to blend together more seamlessly though. The people who made the Kara video demo made the game Heavy Rain and bringing stronger acting and emotion into a game at the expense of action was their aim:
[VIDEO]
You can do that on weaker hardware but you can see even in that video, the characters just don't look right. LA Noire is another example of a high-end game that isn't much about action:
[VIDEO]
These games are trying to be more like interactive movies. The most common emotion developers seem to aim for is fear and anxiety because it has more of a formulaic source. The most recent Tomb Raider game is an example:
[VIDEO]
In pretty much every game in the series previous to that, the focal point was how big her boobs were. I didn't think they had to that away necessarily but the focal point now is on the story of her being trapped on an island and going through the survival routine and they did a pretty good job.
You could also word that 'Valve wants control and won't give it up' given that they are against Microsoft too. Valve doesn't build the platforms so by all rights they shouldn't have the control. Gabe said they wanted to allow 3rd parties to have their own stores so there's no reason why there couldn't be a branded section of the App Store. Apple already has a 'Big Name games' section. They could partner with Valve and offer a Steam section or just have branded sections for AAA publishers. Like Youtube channels.
There's going to be quite a competitive environment just now between all of the people involved in digital distribution: Microsoft, Amazon, EA, Valve, Apple, Google. They all need to protect their cut of digital distribution because it's the most sustainable form of long-term income generation. Hardware will get cheaper and less relevant but everybody will always consume and pay for quality content. This has to be why everybody wants their own operating system. Unfortunately I don't think there's an alternative model where they can all gain and avoid harming consumers with vendor lock-in.
They work with a controller, it's not any different from playing a console really. Try it out yourself if you like: http://www.onlive.com - you can plug in a USB or bluetooth controller from Amazon, XBox / PS3 / Logitech controller. It's free to signup and play. You get half hour demos on a lot of games. There is some lag but it depends on your connection, wired is best.
Wrong. What you described was classical obsessive behavior.
Not necessarily. When in battle whether real or perceived one's attention is at the the threat or objective and bodily functions are ignored until the threat is gone. It's not different when a athlete doesn't realize how hurt he/she is until after the game.
But yeah, he's totally right. The most powerful emotion I felt on portable games was with Superbrothers and Dead Space.