You're certainly welcome to your blind devotion. That is your wont.
I happen to see issues from a somewhat more balanced perspective (although one that is heavily titled in favor of all things Apple, as any reasonable assessment of my posting history will show).
My views are based on reasonable surmise, none of which you've offered thus far, except for non sequiturs like "you don't work there, so you couldn't know". That is pretty much the equivalent of "you can't lay an egg, so don't criticize the omelette."
Blind devotion: I'm still seething with outrage over the way they dumped us Final Cut Pro users. How's that?
Reasonable surmise: I think it's ten times more likely, more or less, that they ran into unforeseeable technical problems rolling out two entirely new screen technologies than that they are in decline in their operations oversight, given the complexity involved.
It would be reasonable to accuse them of some hubris in thinking they could get as much done last year as they did, but they were under pressure for a new iPad mini and a new iMac design at once. It would also be reasonable to suggest there's a real shortage of the kind of engineers-—male or female—that a company needs for pushing boundaries like they do.
The opposite of blind devotion is stomping in the peanut gallery.
Off-topic: It may or may not be fair -- in fact, it will be mostly unfair -- but I predict that this issue will come to haunt Apple soon.
I agree on both points. I don't know the Apple's executive team personally (beyond an email exchanged here and there, and I doubt those were from Cook and Schiller directly). But their public personae leave me little doubt they are not racist or sexist in any way whatsoever. But an unintentional glass ceiling is still a de facto glass ceiling. And Apple may have to answer for this some day.
It's not about his claim or mine, or yours. It's about an executive team that is not consistent with the makeup of its own work force.
WHO. CARES.
As long as the people in their jobs, wherever the jobs, are the best people for the jobs, I couldn't care less if it's all men, all women, all caucasian, all asian, all african, all aborigine, or all (whoops, left the sentence unfinished. Ah, well.)
What is YOUR problem that you can't understand this? The people that call for "diversity up there" are nearly as damaging as the doom and gloomers on the stock front. It's. a. business. Not a "diversity first" poster.
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
…I predict that this issue will come to haunt Apple soon.
Among fools who care nothing of quality; let's hope not.
Exactly. I used to love Adobe but I hate them now. The product is horribly bloated and slow. Features are added which are wholly irrelevant to the core product and are unwanted. Tons of unwanted junk gets installed without permission and only some can be removed. It's a clusterf##% of Microsoft Windows registry style proportions (and does the most damage there).
If this guy is responsible for Adobe bloating up its products over the last several CS versions, Apple is in trouble.
I'd love to see Apple make a competitor to Adobe's products using CoreImage. It could be blazingly fast and integrated into the system. Given that Adobe has been doing their best to screw Apple for 20 years (late products, discounts to switch from Mac to WIndows, etc), it would serve them right.
I agree on both points. I don't know the Apple's executive team personally (beyond an email exchanged here and there, and I doubt those were from Cook and Schiller directly). But their public personae leave me little doubt they are not racist or sexist in any way whatsoever. But an unintentional glass ceiling is still a de facto glass ceiling. And Apple may have to answer for this some day.
Answer for what? I bet they have several VPs that are minority. They have minority members of the Board too.
Not only has he offered such feeble arguments. He also refutes or doesn't understand that regardless of what problems that might have occurred in Taiwan, China or the North Pole, the buck stops with Apple because they are the ones who announced the product and promised a shipping date. He is either really dense or pretending to be so.
Saying you don't know shit about the technology is a feeble argument . . . ok, have it your way.
"The buck stops here." I get that kind of simplistic tough talk, but you don't know what the buck was.
They made their shipping date. You could be so much more useful looking into why there was such short supply, rather than joining the mob with the pitchforks. If you can't learn anything, then maybe you should have some humility in the face of your ignorance.
You're getting pissed off because i'm questioning your role as an Internet know-it-all. You are correct.
As long as the people in their jobs, wherever the jobs, are the best people for the jobs, I couldn't care less if it's all men, all women, all caucasian, all asian, all african, all aborigine, or all (whoops, left the sentence unfinished. Ah, well.)
What is YOUR problem that you can't understand this? The people that call for "diversity up there" are nearly as damaging as the doom and gloomers on the stock front. It's. a. business. Not a "diversity first" poster.
Among fools who care nothing of quality; let's hope not.
I didn't say diversity first. But I understand, when absent of rational arguments, twisting/exaggerating other people's words is sometimes effective. I am asking about the almost complete absence of diversity. As for who cares - of course many do. At least, the two deepest thinkers in this thread do.
Damaging? How about the damage caused when gifted employees leave because of the de facto glass ceiling?
No one is arguing for diversity before quality. We are questioning the coincidence of the near homogeneity of the top team. It would be questionable as well if it were all women, all Asian, all whatever.
Saying you don't know shit about the technology is a feeble argument . . . ok, have it your way.
Good. We have confirmation (not that it was needed) that you don't know shit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
"The buck stops here." I get that kind of simplistic tough talk, but you don't know what the buck was.
They made their shipping date. You could be so much more useful looking into why there was such short supply, rather than joining the mob with the pitchforks. If you can't learn anything, then maybe you should have some humility in the face of your ignorance.
You're getting pissed off because i'm questioning your role as an Internet know-it-all. You are correct.
"The buck" is ownership of responsibility. There is nothing for us to investigate. Apple, not Foxconn or any of their suppliers, answers to us the consumers. Therefore, when Apple fails to ship, they are held accountable. Some day, when you get a job, you'll learn.
^ Tallest... Damn you said something that makes sense.
Heaven forbid.
Originally Posted by ankleskater
I am asking about the almost complete absence of diversity.
So the entire company is comprised of only white males? Funny, that doesn't seem to be the case…
Ah, see, before you start up again, note that you're diminishing the achievements of every single other person at the company—man, woman, etc.—by ignoring them where they are.
As for who cares - of course many do.
Explain. Why should an executive board supplant people who can do the job with those who cannot?
Damaging? How about the damage caused when gifted employees leave because of the de facto glass ceiling?
If they're actually gifted enough to do the job, they'll not only be in the position, they'll be smart enough not to believe this pathetic hoo-ha in the first place.
We are questioning the coincidence of the near homogeneity of the top team.
It is incomprehensible that this should be incomprehensible to you.
It's not coincidence. It's by design. These are the best people for the job. Therefore they have the job.
Apple is better software outfit than Adobe by far, for what they have to do, Adobe, Autodesk, and Quark? are yesterday's news software wise. Yes they still make money, but the quality just isn't there there are better smaller more nimble companies out there, and Kevin Lynch just doesn't fit just like Papermaster, and Browett. Not even someone from Google would have worked the culture is too different.
Adobe, Autodesk, and Quark? are yesterday's news software wise.
I'll give you credit for Quark, because almost no one uses that app except organizations that have heavily integrated it into their work flow such as collaboration or database extensions for catalog production, two areas that inDesign could improve, but calling out Adobe and Autodesk as antiquated is just misinformed. Those two software publishers are at the pinnacle of professional design applications. There is nothing that can touch CS for graphic design and Autodesk has a full range of architectural and engineering suites. They are both the default standards in their respective industries.
[QUOTE]Good. We have confirmation (not that it was needed) that you don't know shit.[/QUOTE]
Yep, I already said as much. The difference is that I don't call for a person's job or reputation or a company's doom based on what I don't know.
When a company is pushing boundaries like Apple is, my first reaction when things get sticky with a new product is that there is a learning curve with anything technical, not that the new "replacement in Operations has been an unmitigated disaster in managing the supply chain thus far."—[B]anant[/B]
If you don't know a thing about that supply chain, that position is just unfair and counterproductive, and worse could be said. I find that "buck stops here" mentality noble, but it only when it applies to oneself. If you lay it on others, you should know whether they could really do anything about the "disaster" you're talking about.
I'd love to see Apple make a competitor to Adobe's products using CoreImage. It could be blazingly fast and integrated into the system. Given that Adobe has been doing their best to screw Apple for 20 years (late products, discounts to switch from Mac to WIndows, etc), it would serve them right.
Yeah Apple has a great track record with Pro apps. They start out with lots of potential, then methodically remove features with each update until they eventually discontinue it. Sounds perfect. The Adobe accusation for late product on Mac has not happened since CS was introduced and I have never heard of discounts to switch to Windows. Do you have any citations for that? Not saying it isn't true just I have never been offered a such a discount and if that was indeed one of Adobe's promotions I would think they would have notified me as I have been a long time Mac software customer since the original Illustrator 1a.
Comments
Blind devotion: I'm still seething with outrage over the way they dumped us Final Cut Pro users. How's that?
Reasonable surmise: I think it's ten times more likely, more or less, that they ran into unforeseeable technical problems rolling out two entirely new screen technologies than that they are in decline in their operations oversight, given the complexity involved.
It would be reasonable to accuse them of some hubris in thinking they could get as much done last year as they did, but they were under pressure for a new iPad mini and a new iMac design at once. It would also be reasonable to suggest there's a real shortage of the kind of engineers-—male or female—that a company needs for pushing boundaries like they do.
The opposite of blind devotion is stomping in the peanut gallery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Off-topic: It may or may not be fair -- in fact, it will be mostly unfair -- but I predict that this issue will come to haunt Apple soon.
I agree on both points. I don't know the Apple's executive team personally (beyond an email exchanged here and there, and I doubt those were from Cook and Schiller directly). But their public personae leave me little doubt they are not racist or sexist in any way whatsoever. But an unintentional glass ceiling is still a de facto glass ceiling. And Apple may have to answer for this some day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Buthe sounded like Jobs on stage. Guess that's all that matters.
Forstall is good. But Jobs he does not resemble, on stage or off.
Originally Posted by ankleskater
It's not about his claim or mine, or yours. It's about an executive team that is not consistent with the makeup of its own work force.
WHO. CARES.
As long as the people in their jobs, wherever the jobs, are the best people for the jobs, I couldn't care less if it's all men, all women, all caucasian, all asian, all african, all aborigine, or all (whoops, left the sentence unfinished. Ah, well.)
What is YOUR problem that you can't understand this? The people that call for "diversity up there" are nearly as damaging as the doom and gloomers on the stock front. It's. a. business. Not a "diversity first" poster.
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
…I predict that this issue will come to haunt Apple soon.
Among fools who care nothing of quality; let's hope not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
The opposite of blind devotion is stomping in the peanut gallery.
I generally avoid peanuts. Causes too much gassiness.
I'd love to see Apple make a competitor to Adobe's products using CoreImage. It could be blazingly fast and integrated into the system. Given that Adobe has been doing their best to screw Apple for 20 years (late products, discounts to switch from Mac to WIndows, etc), it would serve them right.
Answer for what? I bet they have several VPs that are minority. They have minority members of the Board too.
Saying you don't know shit about the technology is a feeble argument . . . ok, have it your way.
"The buck stops here." I get that kind of simplistic tough talk, but you don't know what the buck was.
They made their shipping date. You could be so much more useful looking into why there was such short supply, rather than joining the mob with the pitchforks. If you can't learn anything, then maybe you should have some humility in the face of your ignorance.
You're getting pissed off because i'm questioning your role as an Internet know-it-all. You are correct.
^ Tallest... Damn you said something that makes sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
WHO. CARES.
As long as the people in their jobs, wherever the jobs, are the best people for the jobs, I couldn't care less if it's all men, all women, all caucasian, all asian, all african, all aborigine, or all (whoops, left the sentence unfinished. Ah, well.)
What is YOUR problem that you can't understand this? The people that call for "diversity up there" are nearly as damaging as the doom and gloomers on the stock front. It's. a. business. Not a "diversity first" poster.
Among fools who care nothing of quality; let's hope not.
I didn't say diversity first. But I understand, when absent of rational arguments, twisting/exaggerating other people's words is sometimes effective. I am asking about the almost complete absence of diversity. As for who cares - of course many do. At least, the two deepest thinkers in this thread do.
Damaging? How about the damage caused when gifted employees leave because of the de facto glass ceiling?
No one is arguing for diversity before quality. We are questioning the coincidence of the near homogeneity of the top team. It would be questionable as well if it were all women, all Asian, all whatever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
Saying you don't know shit about the technology is a feeble argument . . . ok, have it your way.
Good. We have confirmation (not that it was needed) that you don't know shit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
"The buck stops here." I get that kind of simplistic tough talk, but you don't know what the buck was.
They made their shipping date. You could be so much more useful looking into why there was such short supply, rather than joining the mob with the pitchforks. If you can't learn anything, then maybe you should have some humility in the face of your ignorance.
You're getting pissed off because i'm questioning your role as an Internet know-it-all. You are correct.
"The buck" is ownership of responsibility. There is nothing for us to investigate. Apple, not Foxconn or any of their suppliers, answers to us the consumers. Therefore, when Apple fails to ship, they are held accountable. Some day, when you get a job, you'll learn.
Originally Posted by SCProfessor
^ Tallest... Damn you said something that makes sense.
Heaven forbid.
Originally Posted by ankleskater
I am asking about the almost complete absence of diversity.
So the entire company is comprised of only white males? Funny, that doesn't seem to be the case…
Ah, see, before you start up again, note that you're diminishing the achievements of every single other person at the company—man, woman, etc.—by ignoring them where they are.
As for who cares - of course many do.
Explain. Why should an executive board supplant people who can do the job with those who cannot?
Damaging? How about the damage caused when gifted employees leave because of the de facto glass ceiling?
If they're actually gifted enough to do the job, they'll not only be in the position, they'll be smart enough not to believe this pathetic hoo-ha in the first place.
We are questioning the coincidence of the near homogeneity of the top team.
It is incomprehensible that this should be incomprehensible to you.
It's not coincidence. It's by design. These are the best people for the job. Therefore they have the job.
Apple is better software outfit than Adobe by far, for what they have to do, Adobe, Autodesk, and Quark? are yesterday's news software wise. Yes they still make money, but the quality just isn't there there are better smaller more nimble companies out there, and Kevin Lynch just doesn't fit just like Papermaster, and Browett. Not even someone from Google would have worked the culture is too different.
I think Bob Mansfield picked Kevin Lynch not Tim Cook, Forstall wasn't a yes man?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danox
Adobe, Autodesk, and Quark? are yesterday's news software wise.
I'll give you credit for Quark, because almost no one uses that app except organizations that have heavily integrated it into their work flow such as collaboration or database extensions for catalog production, two areas that inDesign could improve, but calling out Adobe and Autodesk as antiquated is just misinformed. Those two software publishers are at the pinnacle of professional design applications. There is nothing that can touch CS for graphic design and Autodesk has a full range of architectural and engineering suites. They are both the default standards in their respective industries.
BTW welcome to AI.
[QUOTE]Good. We have confirmation (not that it was needed) that you don't know shit.[/QUOTE]
Yep, I already said as much. The difference is that I don't call for a person's job or reputation or a company's doom based on what I don't know.
When a company is pushing boundaries like Apple is, my first reaction when things get sticky with a new product is that there is a learning curve with anything technical, not that the new "replacement in Operations has been an unmitigated disaster in managing the supply chain thus far."—[B]anant[/B]
If you don't know a thing about that supply chain, that position is just unfair and counterproductive, and worse could be said. I find that "buck stops here" mentality noble, but it only when it applies to oneself. If you lay it on others, you should know whether they could really do anything about the "disaster" you're talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Among fools who care nothing of quality; let's hope not.
One would have to be a fool would confuse hope and expectation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
I'd love to see Apple make a competitor to Adobe's products using CoreImage. It could be blazingly fast and integrated into the system. Given that Adobe has been doing their best to screw Apple for 20 years (late products, discounts to switch from Mac to WIndows, etc), it would serve them right.
Yeah Apple has a great track record with Pro apps. They start out with lots of potential, then methodically remove features with each update until they eventually discontinue it. Sounds perfect. The Adobe accusation for late product on Mac has not happened since CS was introduced and I have never heard of discounts to switch to Windows. Do you have any citations for that? Not saying it isn't true just I have never been offered a such a discount and if that was indeed one of Adobe's promotions I would think they would have notified me as I have been a long time Mac software customer since the original Illustrator 1a.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
.... "replacement in Operations has been an unmitigated disaster in managing the supply chain thus far."—anant
1) I gave you three reasons for why I thought that.
2) I'd appreciate it if you stuck to my username, which is to the top left of this post.
3) Bolding yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
The implication is that Apple will put Flash in iOS. Doubt it.
Never, Flash died a while ago. Now Flash is just an unwanted hang on.