Being able to more accurately pinpoint where I am, would make, "location aware alerts," far more usable for me.
Let's say I want to remind myself to bring something with me when I leave my apartment, (which I have done several times.)
The way a GPS, "remind me when I leave home," alert, currently works, is it will pop up for me when I am a block away from my apartment. Really not good enough for this purpose.
If I were able to set a reminder for when I leave my apartment, or when I am a specific distance from my Wireless Modem, I could get far more use out of it.
Similarly, if I am out and want to remind myself to do something I can only do on my desktop computer, I might not want to alert me until I am as close as a few feet away.
Broadcom announced a new chipset middle of last year that supports just that geo-fencing feature you want. It's expected to start shipping in smartphones sometime this year and could open up a plethora of new features and applications based on your indoor or outdoor location. The downside is that users will have to be comfortable with the idea of their travels being tracked and likely saved. It might be a tough sell for some. http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/126843-think-gps-is-cool-ips-will-blow-your-mind
The downside is that users will have to be comfortable with the idea of their travels being tracked and likely saved. It might be a tough sell for some.
Sounds like it might not be a, "big brother is watching me," risk after all.
From the article...
Quote:
Before we begin, it’s important to point out that — just like GPS — IPS doesn’t necessarily betray your location to third parties. IPS can be entirely local to your smartphone (or other portable navigation device).
And besides, you could probably be able to turn it on and off when you need it!
Sounds like it might not be a, "big brother is watching me," risk after all.
From the article...
And besides, you could probably be able to turn it on and off when you need it! :)
I meant to take advantage of the applications built to use the afforded capabilities. You're right that you wouldn't need to share location data simply to use indoor location supplied by the Broadcom chip. . .
...unless the vendor's OS makes it a requirement.:\
Something that will be of increasing importance, however, is elevation data: which floor of the mall or hospital or parking garage is the person or destination located on? Will the WifiSLAM tech provide such information? Hopefully so!
I have not seen any information on how it works but I assume it is using something similar to cell tower triangulation but with wifi. In order for something like this to work the exact location of the wifi hot spot must be known in advance. If that data is available then it could triangulate in 3D space. Even though the wifi may be locked, as long as it is broadcasting SSID you should be able to get a response from it for timing but the accuracy could be an issue depending on the latency. I think it is pretty clear that this is a technology that will need to be installed in public buildings with the cooperation of the building owner.
Have a look at this video -- it is difficult to watch, but explains the process:
A demonstration starts at about 24 minutes in -- but the whole video is informative.
Many sellers have offered online grocery shopping with competitive pricing & free delivery... Over the years. None have been really successful, and, AIR, studies were made to determine why.
One, obvious reason is that the housewife wanted to squeeze the tomatoes and tap/smell the cantalopes.
A very prominent finding was unexpected -- the housewife wanted to get out of the house and sociaalize with her friends (I often see them, leaning on their carts, walking side-by-side, blocking the aisles).
Also, a single friend found the supermarket an excellent place to pick up girls.
Many malls are social hangouts -- offering everything you could want to connect with friends in a safe, convenient, temperature-controlled environment,
I know you don't mean it, and by your previous comments on the forum it's probably just because you are incredibly old but … this is one offensive, sexist post.
Only "housewives" shop for groceries? (until some dude want to "pick up a girl" I guess)
I think you should leave the 1960's behind once in a while and think about what life is like today.
I admit, that my post is in someways sexist -- especially the part about picking up girls.
However, the study mentioned was often referred to by my fellow employees at IBM Distribution Development. Among other things we were developing systems for supermarkets -- including the first cash register replacement automatic checkout system in 1971.
The study found that the majority of supermarket shoppers were housewives, stranded at home with the kids, with little, or no, adult contact. To them, they could spend an hour, or so, in the supermarket socializing with a friend as the kids ran wild through the store.
The venue may have changed to include the mall, but the social force motivating the stranded parent (house person if you must) remains the same.
I challenge you to go to any Costco style store during the week... I submit you will see several instances of 2 house persons, leaning on their carts, chatting -- while walking side-by-side down the center of the aisle -- blocking traffic in both directions... I've seen this as recently as Friday 03/22/13.
This was for the patents. I don't think it is safe to say that Apple is going to be introducing WiFi location. WiFi is actually not so good for location, and there have been people doing it for years.
This was for the patents. I don't think it is safe to say that Apple is going to be introducing WiFi location. WiFi is actually not so good for location, and there have been people doing it for years.
The downside is that users will have to be comfortable with the idea of their travels being tracked and likely saved. It might be a tough sell for some.
Sounds like it might not be a, "big brother is watching me," risk after all.
From the article...
Quote:
Before we begin, it’s important to point out that — just like GPS — IPS doesn’t necessarily betray your location to third parties. IPS can be entirely local to your smartphone (or other portable navigation device).
And besides, you could probably be able to turn it on and off when you need it!
I posted a link to this video:
This should set your minds at ease.
It is not actually communicating over WiFi! -- Rather it is sensing the amalgamation of all the WiFi noise * (signals) in an area to create a fingerprint of a pinpointed location (within 8.2 feet).That fingerprint is unique (adjusted for time, WiFi activity, etc.). Then, the fingerprint is sent as a query to a [Apple] server to determine:
1) where you are
2) what's around you
3) where you are likely to go
As a response, your iDevice receives a fingerprint map ** of the area. Then as you move about, the iDevice uses the compass, accelerometer and magnometer on the device to determine where you are (or anticipate where you are going) -- with no further communication with the server (tracking you).
* The noise can include other noise such as a magnetic field fingerprint in addition to the WiFi fingerprint to refine the position.
** The generation of fingerprint maps can be done manually (someone walking the walk) or crowd sourced (someone, at some point in time, has walked that segment of the fingerprint map) -- or, for secure areas, the fingerprint map can be unavailable.
You don't even need a physical diagram/blueprint of the area -- from aggregated traversal data, the servers can determine where the walls and doorways are -- and generate a diagram of the area.
I thought Apple had been using their own solution for years.
dAFAIK they use Skyhook database. There was an article sometime back that said Apple had already dumped them but I also thought Apple was still buying data from them. You could be right.
EDIT: Not only could you be right, you are right. Thanks for noting it Soli.
Edit2: I think I found where my confusion came from. I found that even tho Apple may not be using Skyhook data any longer they still have a contract with them, apparently thru at least 2014?
from Bloomberg:
"Also, in the next few years, Skyhook will stop receiving payments from Apple. When Apple decided to use its own location technology in 2009, Steve Jobs told Morgan that he would honor the terms of the five-to-seven-year deal."
I can really appreciate the potential for this; I can also see a lot of reasons to be leery of how it could be abused. Part of that may be the generation gap in my case; I'm just not "social enough" to want to know what my friends are doing or where they're at at any given time.
I'd rather see this being adapted for use as other people have mentioned - mapping hospitals, malls, museums, etc. But, I'm realistic enough to know that things will develop in so many ways I can't even begin to predict or imagine. Time will tell whether or not they're good directions or not.
Absolutely Dick (hi)
I'm sitting in Prague airport right now trying to figure out where the kiosk is that I'm supposed to use to checkin. Would help to have a stand-alone GPS app that delivers indoors.
I can really appreciate the potential for this; I can also see a lot of reasons to be leery of how it could be abused. Part of that may be the generation gap in my case; I'm just not "social enough" to want to know what my friends are doing or where they're at at any given time.
I'd rather see this being adapted for use as other people have mentioned - mapping hospitals, malls, museums, etc. But, I'm realistic enough to know that things will develop in so many ways I can't even begin to predict or imagine. Time will tell whether or not they're good directions or not.
Hi Dick,
I'm sitting right now in Prague airport trying to figure out where the kiosk is for me to check in to my Lufthansa flight. Would be great to have built-in to my European Navigon stand-alone GPS app a version for navigating the airport, complete with flight status updates on the fly should I have cell or wifi coverage, of course, all tied into Apple's Passbook. A boon for frequent travellers and Apple geeks alike! Dan
It's not necessary to say "much maligned" before iOS 6 Maps. Because, when does it ever stop being that if Apple keeps making small, incremental improvements? Think Final Cut X or MobileMe, which were incrementally fixed. You guys -- all of you AI staff writers -- need to just call it Maps. Believe me, people have deep memories for negative sound bites. Most people still remember the Doonsbury comic lampooning the (original) Newton's handwriting recognition when in fact, after years of incremental improvements, Apple had some of the best handwriting recognition available by the time the MessagePad 130 shipped.
That's great. Now if they'd just do that in the lab instead of on my device, using willing testers instead of paying customers, all would be well.
To me that's kinda like your car manufacturer saying, "Yeah, we're sorry your turn signals often flash on the wrong side and your brakes sometimes lock up without warning, but we're working on it and hope to have those issues resolved in a future software update." That car may eventually work fine, but how do you suppose owners are going to feel in the meantime?
Comments
Broadcom announced a new chipset middle of last year that supports just that geo-fencing feature you want. It's expected to start shipping in smartphones sometime this year and could open up a plethora of new features and applications based on your indoor or outdoor location. The downside is that users will have to be comfortable with the idea of their travels being tracked and likely saved. It might be a tough sell for some.
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/126843-think-gps-is-cool-ips-will-blow-your-mind
Thanks for the link!
Quote:
The downside is that users will have to be comfortable with the idea of their travels being tracked and likely saved. It might be a tough sell for some.
Sounds like it might not be a, "big brother is watching me," risk after all.
From the article...
Quote:
Before we begin, it’s important to point out that — just like GPS — IPS doesn’t necessarily betray your location to third parties. IPS can be entirely local to your smartphone (or other portable navigation device).
And besides, you could probably be able to turn it on and off when you need it!
I meant to take advantage of the applications built to use the afforded capabilities. You're right that you wouldn't need to share location data simply to use indoor location supplied by the Broadcom chip. . .
...unless the vendor's OS makes it a requirement.:\
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot
Something that will be of increasing importance, however, is elevation data: which floor of the mall or hospital or parking garage is the person or destination located on? Will the WifiSLAM tech provide such information? Hopefully so!
I have not seen any information on how it works but I assume it is using something similar to cell tower triangulation but with wifi. In order for something like this to work the exact location of the wifi hot spot must be known in advance. If that data is available then it could triangulate in 3D space. Even though the wifi may be locked, as long as it is broadcasting SSID you should be able to get a response from it for timing but the accuracy could be an issue depending on the latency. I think it is pretty clear that this is a technology that will need to be installed in public buildings with the cooperation of the building owner.
Have a look at this video -- it is difficult to watch, but explains the process:
A demonstration starts at about 24 minutes in -- but the whole video is informative.
Thanks for finding that one Dick, even tho it's miserable to watch as you mentioned. Their other "official" videos were already pulled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
It may not be a generational thing…
Many sellers have offered online grocery shopping with competitive pricing & free delivery... Over the years. None have been really successful, and, AIR, studies were made to determine why.
One, obvious reason is that the housewife wanted to squeeze the tomatoes and tap/smell the cantalopes.
A very prominent finding was unexpected -- the housewife wanted to get out of the house and sociaalize with her friends (I often see them, leaning on their carts, walking side-by-side, blocking the aisles).
Also, a single friend found the supermarket an excellent place to pick up girls.
Many malls are social hangouts -- offering everything you could want to connect with friends in a safe, convenient, temperature-controlled environment,
I know you don't mean it, and by your previous comments on the forum it's probably just because you are incredibly old but … this is one offensive, sexist post.
Only "housewives" shop for groceries? (until some dude want to "pick up a girl" I guess)
I think you should leave the 1960's behind once in a while and think about what life is like today.
I admit, that my post is in someways sexist -- especially the part about picking up girls.
However, the study mentioned was often referred to by my fellow employees at IBM Distribution Development. Among other things we were developing systems for supermarkets -- including the first cash register replacement automatic checkout system in 1971.
The study found that the majority of supermarket shoppers were housewives, stranded at home with the kids, with little, or no, adult contact. To them, they could spend an hour, or so, in the supermarket socializing with a friend as the kids ran wild through the store.
The venue may have changed to include the mall, but the social force motivating the stranded parent (house person if you must) remains the same.
I challenge you to go to any Costco style store during the week... I submit you will see several instances of 2 house persons, leaning on their carts, chatting -- while walking side-by-side down the center of the aisle -- blocking traffic in both directions... I've seen this as recently as Friday 03/22/13.
I don't know that there are any patents. I did find one patent application tho.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/156631/apple-buys-indoor-gps-company-wifislam-for-20m#post_2299664
Quote:
Originally Posted by richisgame
Thanks for the link!
Quote:
The downside is that users will have to be comfortable with the idea of their travels being tracked and likely saved. It might be a tough sell for some.
Sounds like it might not be a, "big brother is watching me," risk after all.
From the article...
Quote:
Before we begin, it’s important to point out that — just like GPS — IPS doesn’t necessarily betray your location to third parties. IPS can be entirely local to your smartphone (or other portable navigation device).
And besides, you could probably be able to turn it on and off when you need it!
I posted a link to this video:
This should set your minds at ease.
It is not actually communicating over WiFi! -- Rather it is sensing the amalgamation of all the WiFi noise * (signals) in an area to create a fingerprint of a pinpointed location (within 8.2 feet).That fingerprint is unique (adjusted for time, WiFi activity, etc.). Then, the fingerprint is sent as a query to a [Apple] server to determine:
1) where you are
2) what's around you
3) where you are likely to go
As a response, your iDevice receives a fingerprint map ** of the area. Then as you move about, the iDevice uses the compass, accelerometer and magnometer on the device to determine where you are (or anticipate where you are going) -- with no further communication with the server (tracking you).
* The noise can include other noise such as a magnetic field fingerprint in addition to the WiFi fingerprint to refine the position.
** The generation of fingerprint maps can be done manually (someone walking the walk) or crowd sourced (someone, at some point in time, has walked that segment of the fingerprint map) -- or, for secure areas, the fingerprint map can be unavailable.
You don't even need a physical diagram/blueprint of the area -- from aggregated traversal data, the servers can determine where the walls and doorways are -- and generate a diagram of the area.
This is pretty hot stuff!
It might mesh with this:
http://www.baesystems.com/article/BAES_053641/bae-systems-locates-opportunity-to-replace-gps?_afrLoop=458191257511000
Also, an inertial system:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~johannb/Papers/paper128.pdf
Cheers
I expect Apple to kick Skyhook to the curb at some point.
I thought Apple had been using their own solution for years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
I posted a link to this video:
That is discouraging. So you have to walk around recording all the hallways then upload before it can tell you where you are?
dAFAIK they use Skyhook database. There was an article sometime back that said Apple had already dumped them but I also thought Apple was still buying data from them. You could be right.
EDIT: Not only could you be right, you are right. Thanks for noting it Soli.
Edit2: I think I found where my confusion came from. I found that even tho Apple may not be using Skyhook data any longer they still have a contract with them, apparently thru at least 2014?
from Bloomberg:
"Also, in the next few years, Skyhook will stop receiving payments from Apple. When Apple decided to use its own location technology in 2009, Steve Jobs told Morgan that he would honor the terms of the five-to-seven-year deal."
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
I posted a link to this video:
That is discouraging. So you have to walk around recording all the hallways then upload before it can tell you where you are?
You didn't watch the whole thing...
Someone has to:
1) upload the diagram of the building and walk all the halls
or
2) has to have walked some segment at some point in time -- this can be crowd-sourced
Absolutely Dick (hi)
I'm sitting in Prague airport right now trying to figure out where the kiosk is that I'm supposed to use to checkin. Would help to have a stand-alone GPS app that delivers indoors.
I'm sitting right now in Prague airport trying to figure out where the kiosk is for me to check in to my Lufthansa flight. Would be great to have built-in to my European Navigon stand-alone GPS app a version for navigating the airport, complete with flight status updates on the fly should I have cell or wifi coverage, of course, all tied into Apple's Passbook. A boon for frequent travellers and Apple geeks alike! Dan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
I'd vote your comment up but this forum software absolutely sucks and isn't possible on iOS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Sure it is.
Unfortunately Ireland, HOW to do it is always kept secret by those who know. They don't want the proletariat getting too uppity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
It's not necessary to say "much maligned" before iOS 6 Maps. Because, when does it ever stop being that if Apple keeps making small, incremental improvements? Think Final Cut X or MobileMe, which were incrementally fixed. You guys -- all of you AI staff writers -- need to just call it Maps. Believe me, people have deep memories for negative sound bites. Most people still remember the Doonsbury comic lampooning the (original) Newton's handwriting recognition when in fact, after years of incremental improvements, Apple had some of the best handwriting recognition available by the time the MessagePad 130 shipped.
That's great. Now if they'd just do that in the lab instead of on my device, using willing testers instead of paying customers, all would be well.
To me that's kinda like your car manufacturer saying, "Yeah, we're sorry your turn signals often flash on the wrong side and your brakes sometimes lock up without warning, but we're working on it and hope to have those issues resolved in a future software update." That car may eventually work fine, but how do you suppose owners are going to feel in the meantime?