I don't care if it costs $10B. As long as they think and believe it is the platform they need to build this company into a dominant force for the next 50 years. Spend away
Investing for the right reason is NOT the issue here. The lack of overall investment is
You are missing the point: wasting this much money indicates (a) that they don't know of anything useful to do with it and (b) that they are in breach of fiduciary responsibility: the money is better spent being paid out to shareholders. Both (a) and (b) are contingent on the presumption that the Apple management has not made a good case that they need the curved glass HQ. I am not aware of such a case being made but maybe you are, and agree with it, in which case my objection is somewhat weakened.
You are missing the point: wasting this much money indicates (a) that they don't know of anything useful to do with it and (b) that they are in breach of fiduciary responsibility: the money is better spent being paid out to shareholders. Both (a) and (b) are contingent on the presumption that the Apple management has not made a good case that they need the curved glass HQ. I am not aware of such a case being made but maybe you are, and agree with it, in which case my objection is somewhat weakened.
If an outstanding HQ and design inspires the employees... If it can efficiently bring divergent teams and functional groups together to do their life's best work... Than I am all for it. $5B expensed over 20+ years is a piddling in the grand scheme
I'd rather Apple spend an extra $2-3B on something out of the park and completely aspirational then to cut corners. In ten years, no one will look back and wish they did not spend those extra dollars to make the HQ exceptional
Actually, over the last two years, you made a little money, probably a little less than had you held the broad market. However, your point eludes me.
His point is....money is neither lost or gained unless the equity is sold. A loss/gain on paper is just that; an unrealized loss/gain---and means nothing until the stock is sold.
I bought AAPL @ (a split adjusted) $4.60/share and have held it for almost 15 years. This is just another blip in the chart on the way to $800, big deal.
Damn, is Cirrus Logic still around? I thought they died when Nvidia and ATI started making combined 2D/3D cards. Ahhh.... those were the days. IRQs and jumpers and video accelerator cards. You kids don't know how easy you have it now a days.
Now get off my lawn!
My hardware expertise peaked with an RS-232 break-out box
If an outstanding HQ and design inspires the employees... If it can efficiently bring divergent teams and functional groups together to do their life's best work... Than I am all for it. $5B expensed over 20+ years is a piddling in the grand scheme
I'd rather Apple spend an extra $2-3B on something out of the park and completely aspirational then to cut corners. In ten years, no one will look back and wish they did not spend those extra dollars to make the HQ exceptional
Maybe you are right. My personal experience is that the best work is done in garages and temporary office space (trailers and such), as soon as the interior decor gets fancy, creativity tends to decay.
His point is....money is neither lost or gained unless the equity is sold. A loss/gain on paper is just that; an unrealized loss/gain---and means nothing until the stock is sold.
I bought AAPL @ (a split adjusted) $4.60/share and have held it for almost 15 years. This is just another blip in the chart on the way to $800, big deal.
You are joking, right? (about the first paragraph). Have you ever heard of the deep concept of "mark to market"? For those of us who will occasionally need the liquidity, the money is gained the instant the security goes up, and lost the instant it goes down. I think those who were conscious in 2008 would have become enlightened on this point, at least as it pertains to the housing market.
Sweet. BMO out today saying S4 will outsell iPhone5 in calendar 13 and they won't even have it available for the full year. Epic, epic implosion. Cook needs to go and the new HQ damn well better be cancelled or altered. He and the board already look like epic failures.
This isn't hyperbole, he may go down as the worst CEO the world has ever seen. There are frauds, there are CEOs who make mistakes, but one who sits on billions of cash with no attempt to grow and just let's the competition take him to the woodshed and become more popular has got to be one of the worst leaders in financial history. Mind boggling arrogance.
I'm guessing tech recruiters seeing a lot of Apple resumes lately.
Your right - should not have put Microsoft in as one of the examples. Ballmer is an absolute joke. But the point I'm trying to make still stands - stable, sustainable, large cap companies
On your comment 'Pull Apple Billions", that is not what I am saying. The company should keep and invest in EVERYTHING they need to WIN. But it should not aimlessly be sitting on piles of cash with no plan or vision
Apple should pull out every penny they have in cash and watch these wall street pundit's banking mates fall, then the Government can waste YOUR taxes on putting them back on their feet again.
The American system is flawed in that the rewards are greater for those who create nothing.
Sweet. BMO out today saying S4 will outsell iPhone5 in calendar 13 and they won't even have it available for the full year. Epic, epic implosion. Cook needs to go and the new HQ damn well better be cancelled or altered. He and the board already look like epic failures.
This isn't hyperbole, he may go down as the worst CEO the world has ever seen. There are frauds, there are CEOs who make mistakes, but one who sits on billions of cash with no attempt to grow and just let's the competition take him to the woodshed and become more popular has got to be one of the worst leaders in financial history. Mind boggling arrogance.
I'm guessing tech recruiters seeing a lot of Apple resumes lately.
Well, I am not sure how meaningful the first thing is: I assume that the next iPhone is going to be out in Sep. at the latest. As for Apple employees, I have certainly seen claims that the level of unrest is rising.
They actually are pretty close to making the new HQ out of platinum, check out the story on this very site. "Every piece of glass is curved", as St Steve himself boasted. $5BN (or $3BN if they succeed in their cost-cutting) for a BUILDING. Yowza.
$5 Billion for 13,000+ campus with R&D complex, on-site, underground 5 story parkade, 8,000 trees added over a 150 continuous acre campus which equates to 45 days of profit.
Yes, I sure am going to be upset.
You folks are pissed off that Apple has ZERO DEBT. They have nothing you can leverage so you pump and dump the stock, instill fear, pump and dump and force others to join the ride. Then you buy it all back over the next quarter making a tidy profit.
Apple should pull out every penny they have in cash and watch these wall street pundit's banking mates fall, then the Government can waste YOUR taxes on putting them back on their feet again.
The American system is flawed in that the rewards are greater for those who create nothing.
Since most of the Apple stash is offshore, to avoid the very taxes of which you speak, you will have to settle for Apple attempting to bankrupt the Caymans. Most of the rest of the stash is in US government debt, so you are not going to bankrupt anyone by selling it off.
Otherwise, I find your comments repulsive. What do you do for a living? How much of a benefit is it to mankind? Apple makes disposable junk, which is nicer than other disposable junk, I am happy to agree, and charges as much as the market can bear for it. They must be fucking saints then.
$5 Billion for 13,000+ campus with R&D complex, on-site, underground 5 story parkade, 8,000 trees added over a 150 continuous acre campus which equates to 45 days of profit. Yes, I sure am going to be upset. You folks are pissed off that Apple has ZERO DEBT. They have nothing you can leverage so you pump and dump the stock, instill fear, pump and dump and force others to join the ride. Then you buy it all back over the next quarter making a tidy profit.
Who are you folks? Shareholders who actually own the company and can remove the entire upper mgmt team if they keep sticking their head in the sand?
$5 Billion for 13,000+ campus with R&D complex, on-site, underground 5 story parkade, 8,000 trees added over a 150 continuous acre campus which equates to 45 days of profit. Yes, I sure am going to be upset. You folks are pissed off that Apple has ZERO DEBT. They have nothing you can leverage so you pump and dump the stock, instill fear, pump and dump and force others to join the ride. Then you buy it all back over the next quarter making a tidy profit.
Pump and dump? Why don't you read something about finance, you doofus. Otherwise, $5BN for 13000 employes is $400K PER EMPLOYEE. You could buy each of them a fucking house (or at least a condo in Mountain View...) for that money -- this is a completely egregious extravagance/status symbol. By contrast, Googleplex (the google HQ in Mountain view) cost a bit over $300MM, so less than a tenth of Apple's HQ cost, for, I am guessing, more than 13000 employees.
Sweet. BMO out today saying S4 will outsell iPhone5 in calendar 13 and they won't even have it available for the full year. Epic, epic implosion. Cook needs to go and the new HQ damn well better be cancelled or altered. He and the board already look like epic failures.
This isn't hyperbole, he may go down as the worst CEO the world has ever seen. There are frauds, there are CEOs who make mistakes, but one who sits on billions of cash with no attempt to grow and just let's the competition take him to the woodshed and become more popular has got to be one of the worst leaders in financial history. Mind boggling arrogance.
I'm guessing tech recruiters seeing a lot of Apple resumes lately.
who is BMO and why should we care what they say? And if its bad news for Apple why is it "sweet"?
$5 Billion for 13,000+ campus with R&D complex, on-site, underground 5 story parkade, 8,000 trees added over a 150 continuous acre campus which equates to 45 days of profit. Yes, I sure am going to be upset. You folks are pissed off that Apple has ZERO DEBT. They have nothing you can leverage so you pump and dump the stock, instill fear, pump and dump and force others to join the ride. Then you buy it all back over the next quarter making a tidy profit.
It's ironic sad that the same people whining that Apple doesn't invest enough money also complain when Apple invests their money.
Who are you folks? Shareholders who actually own the company and can remove the entire upper mgmt team if they keep sticking their head in the sand?
Just curious what you think Apple would have done in 2012 and what they'd be doing right now if Jobs was still alive and running the show. Or would he have his head in the sand too?
who is BMO and why should we care what they say? And if its bad news for Apple why is it "sweet"?
BMO is the BMO Harris Bank, or their employee who follows the mobile industry. I cannot speak for why it is sweet other that guessing that this might light a fire under Apple management's behinds, which the poster believes would be a good thing.
It's ironic sad that the same people whining that Apple doesn't invest enough money also complain when Apple invests their money.
There is a difference between "invests" and "spends". As I had said in a previous post, I could be persuaded that this is an investment as opposed to waste, but no one has pointed me to any document which makes that case.
Just curious what you think Apple would have done in 2012 and what they'd be doing right now if Jobs was still alive and running the show. Or would he have his head in the sand too?
None of that matters to these people. Even when Steve was alive they made sweeping predictions that Apple's reign is over and that they would crumble. This is what they do. Actual data means nothing to them, only what they presume to be coming future… so long as it's negative against Apple.
There is a difference between "invests" and "spends". As I had said in a previous post, I could be persuaded that this is an investment as opposed to waste, but no one has pointed me to any document which makes that case.
When your argument is that Apple would be better off putting their employees in garages and doublewides it's hard to find a common ground rooted in sanity in which to start a civil discourse.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak
I don't care if it costs $10B. As long as they think and believe it is the platform they need to build this company into a dominant force for the next 50 years. Spend away
Investing for the right reason is NOT the issue here. The lack of overall investment is
You are missing the point: wasting this much money indicates (a) that they don't know of anything useful to do with it and (b) that they are in breach of fiduciary responsibility: the money is better spent being paid out to shareholders. Both (a) and (b) are contingent on the presumption that the Apple management has not made a good case that they need the curved glass HQ. I am not aware of such a case being made but maybe you are, and agree with it, in which case my objection is somewhat weakened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
You are missing the point: wasting this much money indicates (a) that they don't know of anything useful to do with it and (b) that they are in breach of fiduciary responsibility: the money is better spent being paid out to shareholders. Both (a) and (b) are contingent on the presumption that the Apple management has not made a good case that they need the curved glass HQ. I am not aware of such a case being made but maybe you are, and agree with it, in which case my objection is somewhat weakened.
If an outstanding HQ and design inspires the employees... If it can efficiently bring divergent teams and functional groups together to do their life's best work... Than I am all for it. $5B expensed over 20+ years is a piddling in the grand scheme
I'd rather Apple spend an extra $2-3B on something out of the park and completely aspirational then to cut corners. In ten years, no one will look back and wish they did not spend those extra dollars to make the HQ exceptional
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
Actually, over the last two years, you made a little money, probably a little less than had you held the broad market. However, your point eludes me.
His point is....money is neither lost or gained unless the equity is sold. A loss/gain on paper is just that; an unrealized loss/gain---and means nothing until the stock is sold.
I bought AAPL @ (a split adjusted) $4.60/share and have held it for almost 15 years. This is just another blip in the chart on the way to $800, big deal.
My hardware expertise peaked with an RS-232 break-out box
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak
If an outstanding HQ and design inspires the employees... If it can efficiently bring divergent teams and functional groups together to do their life's best work... Than I am all for it. $5B expensed over 20+ years is a piddling in the grand scheme
I'd rather Apple spend an extra $2-3B on something out of the park and completely aspirational then to cut corners. In ten years, no one will look back and wish they did not spend those extra dollars to make the HQ exceptional
Maybe you are right. My personal experience is that the best work is done in garages and temporary office space (trailers and such), as soon as the interior decor gets fancy, creativity tends to decay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter
His point is....money is neither lost or gained unless the equity is sold. A loss/gain on paper is just that; an unrealized loss/gain---and means nothing until the stock is sold.
I bought AAPL @ (a split adjusted) $4.60/share and have held it for almost 15 years. This is just another blip in the chart on the way to $800, big deal.
You are joking, right? (about the first paragraph). Have you ever heard of the deep concept of "mark to market"? For those of us who will occasionally need the liquidity, the money is gained the instant the security goes up, and lost the instant it goes down. I think those who were conscious in 2008 would have become enlightened on this point, at least as it pertains to the housing market.
This isn't hyperbole, he may go down as the worst CEO the world has ever seen. There are frauds, there are CEOs who make mistakes, but one who sits on billions of cash with no attempt to grow and just let's the competition take him to the woodshed and become more popular has got to be one of the worst leaders in financial history. Mind boggling arrogance.
I'm guessing tech recruiters seeing a lot of Apple resumes lately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak
Your right - should not have put Microsoft in as one of the examples. Ballmer is an absolute joke. But the point I'm trying to make still stands - stable, sustainable, large cap companies
On your comment 'Pull Apple Billions", that is not what I am saying. The company should keep and invest in EVERYTHING they need to WIN. But it should not aimlessly be sitting on piles of cash with no plan or vision
Apple should pull out every penny they have in cash and watch these wall street pundit's banking mates fall, then the Government can waste YOUR taxes on putting them back on their feet again.
The American system is flawed in that the rewards are greater for those who create nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
Sweet. BMO out today saying S4 will outsell iPhone5 in calendar 13 and they won't even have it available for the full year. Epic, epic implosion. Cook needs to go and the new HQ damn well better be cancelled or altered. He and the board already look like epic failures.
This isn't hyperbole, he may go down as the worst CEO the world has ever seen. There are frauds, there are CEOs who make mistakes, but one who sits on billions of cash with no attempt to grow and just let's the competition take him to the woodshed and become more popular has got to be one of the worst leaders in financial history. Mind boggling arrogance.
I'm guessing tech recruiters seeing a lot of Apple resumes lately.
Well, I am not sure how meaningful the first thing is: I assume that the next iPhone is going to be out in Sep. at the latest. As for Apple employees, I have certainly seen claims that the level of unrest is rising.
They actually are pretty close to making the new HQ out of platinum, check out the story on this very site. "Every piece of glass is curved", as St Steve himself boasted. $5BN (or $3BN if they succeed in their cost-cutting) for a BUILDING. Yowza.
$5 Billion for 13,000+ campus with R&D complex, on-site, underground 5 story parkade, 8,000 trees added over a 150 continuous acre campus which equates to 45 days of profit.Yes, I sure am going to be upset.
You folks are pissed off that Apple has ZERO DEBT. They have nothing you can leverage so you pump and dump the stock, instill fear, pump and dump and force others to join the ride. Then you buy it all back over the next quarter making a tidy profit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Apple should pull out every penny they have in cash and watch these wall street pundit's banking mates fall, then the Government can waste YOUR taxes on putting them back on their feet again.
The American system is flawed in that the rewards are greater for those who create nothing.
Since most of the Apple stash is offshore, to avoid the very taxes of which you speak, you will have to settle for Apple attempting to bankrupt the Caymans. Most of the rest of the stash is in US government debt, so you are not going to bankrupt anyone by selling it off.
Otherwise, I find your comments repulsive. What do you do for a living? How much of a benefit is it to mankind? Apple makes disposable junk, which is nicer than other disposable junk, I am happy to agree, and charges as much as the market can bear for it. They must be fucking saints then.
Who are you folks? Shareholders who actually own the company and can remove the entire upper mgmt team if they keep sticking their head in the sand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
$5 Billion for 13,000+ campus with R&D complex, on-site, underground 5 story parkade, 8,000 trees added over a 150 continuous acre campus which equates to 45 days of profit. Yes, I sure am going to be upset. You folks are pissed off that Apple has ZERO DEBT. They have nothing you can leverage so you pump and dump the stock, instill fear, pump and dump and force others to join the ride. Then you buy it all back over the next quarter making a tidy profit.Pump and dump? Why don't you read something about finance, you doofus. Otherwise, $5BN for 13000 employes is $400K PER EMPLOYEE. You could buy each of them a fucking house (or at least a condo in Mountain View...) for that money -- this is a completely egregious extravagance/status symbol. By contrast, Googleplex (the google HQ in Mountain view) cost a bit over $300MM, so less than a tenth of Apple's HQ cost, for, I am guessing, more than 13000 employees.
Geez.
It's ironic
sadthat the same people whining that Apple doesn't invest enough money also complain when Apple invests their money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
who is BMO and why should we care what they say? And if its bad news for Apple why is it "sweet"?
BMO is the BMO Harris Bank, or their employee who follows the mobile industry. I cannot speak for why it is sweet other that guessing that this might light a fire under Apple management's behinds, which the poster believes would be a good thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
It's ironic sad that the same people whining that Apple doesn't invest enough money also complain when Apple invests their money.
There is a difference between "invests" and "spends". As I had said in a previous post, I could be persuaded that this is an investment as opposed to waste, but no one has pointed me to any document which makes that case.
None of that matters to these people. Even when Steve was alive they made sweeping predictions that Apple's reign is over and that they would crumble. This is what they do. Actual data means nothing to them, only what they presume to be coming future… so long as it's negative against Apple.
When your argument is that Apple would be better off putting their employees in garages and doublewides it's hard to find a common ground rooted in sanity in which to start a civil discourse.