If a company does not a have a 5-, 7-, 10-year roadmap and broad investment plans under likely scenarios within that roadmap, they would be stupid or naive or both. Apple is neither.
Jobs easily had that kind of vision. (Think about how long the iPad took to come to fruition, despite the fact that its development started before that for the iPhone). The market needs to believe that Cook can project that kind of vision, and not just talking points and platitudes.
And if anyone thinks that Jobs, Cook and Ive don't have a long range plan for the world, then they are stupid, naive or both.
The market IS stupid and naive in this sense. To the extent it wants Apple to behave like Samsung, it shows its ignorance of the way Apple works.
Tim Cook has been relentless in sticking to the mantra, Apple's determination to focus on its simple goal of "making great products for people" that they didn't know they wanted or needed, and are in fact insanely great, etc. You know and I know that Jobs and Ive had a roadmap and that they imparted it to Cook (if they even had to; I'm sure he gets it just fine).
This is too simple and too subtle for the market to grasp. You want Cook to lay out the road map explicitly. I'm sure they talk this over all the time, and I'm thinking that they will throw out something for the sheep next week, and that's about all your going to get. It is just too dangerous for Cook to be pandering to the market the way Bezos has to. ("We're Apple. We don't even own suits.") It would signal weakness and insecurity like nothing else could.
If you don't listen or believe what I've already told you, says Cook, that's your problem. If you think I'm just talking in platitudes, just wait. You'll eat those words. (That's him talking, not me. Just the way i'd write the script, for what it's worth.)
So many pathetic posts. Apple's growth off the iPhone and iPad is mostly over, but they can still be a successful company selling just those products. Maybe they can monetize the expanding iOS system, but it really needs a new product if the share price is going to recover. Until then a dividend increase would provide support for the stock and be good for investors. My guess is they increase the buybacks to try and let the execs sell at a higher price. If they go that direction I would suggest selling on the next pop because buybacks favor sellers, not investors.
So you think that Apple's YoY growth are really close together for the iPhone and iPad? No need to wait for the next quarter results, just go ahead and add up the unit sales for the last quarters and tell me if you see any difference between the two years.
LOL. Then why are there buyers? Is Apple holding a gun to their head -- making them an offer they can't refuse?
ROFL yourself. People have been buying since $700, doesnt make it right. People buy losers all the time (not referring to Apple), it's the nature of investing that their are winners and losers. So thanks for the stupid reply.
Someone just made a strange trade in After Hours. They bought 10,742 shares at $426 when the stock was trading at $403 then one minute later someone picked up 11,800 shares at $402.80
At what point is all this supposed bad news already priced into the stock? The headlines today are AAPL dropped 5% on fears of a bad quarter. But didn't people start predicting a bad quarter after the last earnings call when Apple lowered guidance and their stock priced dropped like $50 after hours? Where isth bottom in the stock?
I'm not looking to capture the absolute bottom. I need confirmation of an uptrend and there is definitely no signs of that yet. The only trend on AAPL's chart is down. I'm not a chart statistician, and I don't even play one on the internet, but there are various signs to look for.
Hey, I have a billion dollars of my employer's money I want to make a killing on before I replace it... let me know when you make a move and I'll be right behind you. Trust me.
Someone just made a strange trade in After Hours. They bought 10,742 shares at $426 when the stock was trading at $403 then one minute later someone picked up 11,800 shares at $402.80
It could have just been a late print.
No I don't think so, I'm watching realtime plus that is above the open price
And if anyone thinks that Jobs, Cook and Ive don't have a long range plan for the world, then they are stupid, naive or both.
The market IS stupid and naive in this sense.
I am sure you think so. But I happen to think that the market is neither stupid nor naive. It is simply reacting to lack of credible, believable information. At this point, it appears confused -- rightly or wrongly (and I happen to think, wrongly) about Apple's future prospects.
If Apple does not control the information flow about its performance, the information flow will control it.
As has already happened. A lot of people dismiss the ~$290B in market cap as paper wealth losses or might be happy to revel in the schadenfreude: but it is people's retirement wealth, savings for kids' college education, endowment holdings of non-profits and charities, and nest eggs for that next home improvement project. The wealth consequences -- and hence, the reputational consequences -- are real.
It appears everyone is missing this statement, "The company, which makes energy and audio chips, notified investors that it would see lower shipments of a high-volume product as an unnamed customer migrates to a newer component from Cirrus." The emphasis should be on "migrates to a newer component," not reducing orders for existing component because of poor sales. I guess analysts don't read.
"as an unnamed customer migrates to a newer component from Cirrus"
At what point is all this supposed bad news already priced into the stock? The headlines today are AAPL dropped 5% on fears of a bad quarter. But didn't people start predicting a bad quarter after the last earnings call when Apple lowered guidance and their stock priced dropped like $50 after hours? Where isth bottom in the stock?
The bottom will be in when Tim Cook acts like a capable CEO and articulates a plan to grow earnings and play offense. Until then nobody wants to touch the stock.
Cook said last quarter the analysts were wrong about supply chain data points and what they meant. He said months ago they don't need the cash and were actively thinking about doing something with it.
Recent rumors are that not only did the analysts and supply chain checks have better insight into what was happening to sales and consumer demand shifts, but more recently the chatter is Apple still doesn't know what to do with the cash.
It will be comical and sad for the CEO of Apple to basically acknowledge on the call next week that analysts knew what was occurring before he did and that he still hasn't come up with a plan for the cash. The floor will drop out if he says 'hey, you guys were right all along even though I said otherwise....sales are slowing.' He will deserve every bit of criticism he'll get if he is indeed that much of a clown.
The current generation of iWork is three years old, during which time MSFT has been doing a lot of development on Office (particularly the cloud component). Is the product orphaned? Or what? Makes one pine for the days of Claris (since iWork is not a substantial revenue generator compared to, say, the iPhone, it is not getting much attention from the management, so spinning it out might fix that).
Please explain exactly what wonderful improvements there have been in Office during the past 3 years.
The only real difference is the cloud component - and iWork handles the cloud just fine.
So you think that Apple's YoY growth are really close together for the iPhone and iPad? No need to wait for the next quarter results, just go ahead and add up the unit sales for the last quarters and tell me if you see any difference between the two years.
Yeah, I do. They will sell more units in the future if they introduce a cheaper phone, but going forward growth will slow substantially and the next two quarters will be particularly poor. If you feel otherwise you should be ecstatic, you're getting shares at a deep discount.
I think Apple will be fine, but long term, absent a new product, the rapid growth phase is over so the share price will languish.
So, Apple is dumping Cirrus and going elsewhere for their chips, Cirrus sell less chips and Apple stock falls.
No, I don't think this is the reason for the price drop.
True or not, folks won't read it like that. They will read it as Cirrus sales are down because demand for Apple products is down. Which could be a little true since demand is generally lower post holiday. But the same folks won't be thinking that when they can be thinking the sky is failing cause Apple is old news and is losing to Android etc
Yeah, I do. They will sell more units in the future if they introduce a cheaper phone, but going forward growth will slow substantially and the next two quarters will be particularly poor. If you feel otherwise you should be ecstatic, you're getting shares at a deep discount.
I think Apple will be fine, but long term, absent a new product, the rapid growth phase is over so the share price will languish.
See, that is the problem and reason many people don't think highly of Tim Cook. He said on the last call that the smartphone biz was still a huge growth opportunity..... yet Apple isn't addressing it and indeed are seeing their sales slow and come in below forecasts (per Cirrus). They got fat and lazy on success and we shareholders are paying the price. Time for someone with ambition and a desire to actually be a leader take over.
Yeah, I do. They will sell more units in the future if they introduce a cheaper phone, but going forward growth will slow substantially and the next two quarters will be particularly poor. If you feel otherwise you should be ecstatic, you're getting shares at a deep discount.
I think Apple will be fine, but long term, absent a new product, the rapid growth phase is over so the share price will languish.
1) Prove it. At least show me the unit numbers for the iPhone and iPad for the previous quarter results and the year before. If what you say is true then there will a minor change in the percentage of units sales YoY.
2) Deep discount? Because you think that selling more units means the stock will automatically go up? Look at their history (see point 1) and you'll see that despite breakneck sales and beating their own estimates the stock has gone both up and down.
The bottom will be in when Tim Cook acts like a capable CEO and articulates a plan to grow earnings and play offense. Until then nobody wants to touch the stock.
Cook said last quarter the analysts were wrong about supply chain data points and what they meant. He said months ago they don't need the cash and were actively thinking about doing something with it.
Recent rumors are that not only did the analysts and supply chain checks have better insight into what was happening to sales and consumer demand shifts, but more recently the chatter is Apple still doesn't know what to do with the cash.
It will be comical and sad for the CEO of Apple to basically acknowledge on the call next week that analysts knew what was occurring before he did and that he still hasn't come up with a plan for the cash. The floor will drop out if he says 'hey, you guys were right all along even though I said otherwise....sales are slowing.' He will deserve every bit of criticism he'll get if he is indeed that much of a clown.
Well said. Cook doesnt really inspire confidence, and given Apple's made him rich beyond most people's wildest dreams I have to wonder how much he cares.
Comments
And if anyone thinks that Jobs, Cook and Ive don't have a long range plan for the world, then they are stupid, naive or both.
The market IS stupid and naive in this sense. To the extent it wants Apple to behave like Samsung, it shows its ignorance of the way Apple works.
Tim Cook has been relentless in sticking to the mantra, Apple's determination to focus on its simple goal of "making great products for people" that they didn't know they wanted or needed, and are in fact insanely great, etc. You know and I know that Jobs and Ive had a roadmap and that they imparted it to Cook (if they even had to; I'm sure he gets it just fine).
This is too simple and too subtle for the market to grasp. You want Cook to lay out the road map explicitly. I'm sure they talk this over all the time, and I'm thinking that they will throw out something for the sheep next week, and that's about all your going to get. It is just too dangerous for Cook to be pandering to the market the way Bezos has to. ("We're Apple. We don't even own suits.") It would signal weakness and insecurity like nothing else could.
If you don't listen or believe what I've already told you, says Cook, that's your problem. If you think I'm just talking in platitudes, just wait. You'll eat those words. (That's him talking, not me. Just the way i'd write the script, for what it's worth.)
So you think that Apple's YoY growth are really close together for the iPhone and iPad? No need to wait for the next quarter results, just go ahead and add up the unit sales for the last quarters and tell me if you see any difference between the two years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
LOL. Then why are there buyers? Is Apple holding a gun to their head -- making them an offer they can't refuse?
ROFL yourself. People have been buying since $700, doesnt make it right. People buy losers all the time (not referring to Apple), it's the nature of investing that their are winners and losers. So thanks for the stupid reply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Someone just made a strange trade in After Hours. They bought 10,742 shares at $426 when the stock was trading at $403 then one minute later someone picked up 11,800 shares at $402.80
It could have just been a late print.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
I'm not looking to capture the absolute bottom. I need confirmation of an uptrend and there is definitely no signs of that yet. The only trend on AAPL's chart is down. I'm not a chart statistician, and I don't even play one on the internet, but there are various signs to look for.
Hey, I have a billion dollars of my employer's money I want to make a killing on before I replace it... let me know when you make a move and I'll be right behind you. Trust me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Someone just made a strange trade in After Hours. They bought 10,742 shares at $426 when the stock was trading at $403 then one minute later someone picked up 11,800 shares at $402.80
It could have just been a late print.
No I don't think so, I'm watching realtime plus that is above the open price
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
No I don't think so, I'm watching realtime
No, what I mean is that there was an upstairs trade in the morning, which somehow got stuck and got printed after the close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
And if anyone thinks that Jobs, Cook and Ive don't have a long range plan for the world, then they are stupid, naive or both.
The market IS stupid and naive in this sense.
I am sure you think so. But I happen to think that the market is neither stupid nor naive. It is simply reacting to lack of credible, believable information. At this point, it appears confused -- rightly or wrongly (and I happen to think, wrongly) about Apple's future prospects.
If Apple does not control the information flow about its performance, the information flow will control it.
As has already happened. A lot of people dismiss the ~$290B in market cap as paper wealth losses or might be happy to revel in the schadenfreude: but it is people's retirement wealth, savings for kids' college education, endowment holdings of non-profits and charities, and nest eggs for that next home improvement project. The wealth consequences -- and hence, the reputational consequences -- are real.
Quote:
Originally Posted by currentinterest
It appears everyone is missing this statement, "The company, which makes energy and audio chips, notified investors that it would see lower shipments of a high-volume product as an unnamed customer migrates to a newer component from Cirrus." The emphasis should be on "migrates to a newer component," not reducing orders for existing component because of poor sales. I guess analysts don't read.
"as an unnamed customer migrates to a newer component from Cirrus"
That caugtht me eye as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
At what point is all this supposed bad news already priced into the stock? The headlines today are AAPL dropped 5% on fears of a bad quarter. But didn't people start predicting a bad quarter after the last earnings call when Apple lowered guidance and their stock priced dropped like $50 after hours? Where isth bottom in the stock?
The bottom will be in when Tim Cook acts like a capable CEO and articulates a plan to grow earnings and play offense. Until then nobody wants to touch the stock.
Cook said last quarter the analysts were wrong about supply chain data points and what they meant. He said months ago they don't need the cash and were actively thinking about doing something with it.
Recent rumors are that not only did the analysts and supply chain checks have better insight into what was happening to sales and consumer demand shifts, but more recently the chatter is Apple still doesn't know what to do with the cash.
It will be comical and sad for the CEO of Apple to basically acknowledge on the call next week that analysts knew what was occurring before he did and that he still hasn't come up with a plan for the cash. The floor will drop out if he says 'hey, you guys were right all along even though I said otherwise....sales are slowing.' He will deserve every bit of criticism he'll get if he is indeed that much of a clown.
Please explain exactly what wonderful improvements there have been in Office during the past 3 years.
The only real difference is the cloud component - and iWork handles the cloud just fine.
So what's your point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
So you think that Apple's YoY growth are really close together for the iPhone and iPad? No need to wait for the next quarter results, just go ahead and add up the unit sales for the last quarters and tell me if you see any difference between the two years.
Yeah, I do. They will sell more units in the future if they introduce a cheaper phone, but going forward growth will slow substantially and the next two quarters will be particularly poor. If you feel otherwise you should be ecstatic, you're getting shares at a deep discount.
I think Apple will be fine, but long term, absent a new product, the rapid growth phase is over so the share price will languish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
No I don't think so, I'm watching realtime
No, what I mean is that there was an upstairs trade in the morning, which somehow got stuck and got printed after the close.
Well if that were the case I'd want my money back. I think it might be a fat fingers trade which could possibly be undone later.
True or not, folks won't read it like that. They will read it as Cirrus sales are down because demand for Apple products is down. Which could be a little true since demand is generally lower post holiday. But the same folks won't be thinking that when they can be thinking the sky is failing cause Apple is old news and is losing to Android etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkell31
Yeah, I do. They will sell more units in the future if they introduce a cheaper phone, but going forward growth will slow substantially and the next two quarters will be particularly poor. If you feel otherwise you should be ecstatic, you're getting shares at a deep discount.
I think Apple will be fine, but long term, absent a new product, the rapid growth phase is over so the share price will languish.
See, that is the problem and reason many people don't think highly of Tim Cook. He said on the last call that the smartphone biz was still a huge growth opportunity..... yet Apple isn't addressing it and indeed are seeing their sales slow and come in below forecasts (per Cirrus). They got fat and lazy on success and we shareholders are paying the price. Time for someone with ambition and a desire to actually be a leader take over.
1) Prove it. At least show me the unit numbers for the iPhone and iPad for the previous quarter results and the year before. If what you say is true then there will a minor change in the percentage of units sales YoY.
2) Deep discount? Because you think that selling more units means the stock will automatically go up? Look at their history (see point 1) and you'll see that despite breakneck sales and beating their own estimates the stock has gone both up and down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
The bottom will be in when Tim Cook acts like a capable CEO and articulates a plan to grow earnings and play offense. Until then nobody wants to touch the stock.
Cook said last quarter the analysts were wrong about supply chain data points and what they meant. He said months ago they don't need the cash and were actively thinking about doing something with it.
Recent rumors are that not only did the analysts and supply chain checks have better insight into what was happening to sales and consumer demand shifts, but more recently the chatter is Apple still doesn't know what to do with the cash.
It will be comical and sad for the CEO of Apple to basically acknowledge on the call next week that analysts knew what was occurring before he did and that he still hasn't come up with a plan for the cash. The floor will drop out if he says 'hey, you guys were right all along even though I said otherwise....sales are slowing.' He will deserve every bit of criticism he'll get if he is indeed that much of a clown.
Well said. Cook doesnt really inspire confidence, and given Apple's made him rich beyond most people's wildest dreams I have to wonder how much he cares.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
No I don't think so, I'm watching realtime
No, what I mean is that there was an upstairs trade in the morning, which somehow got stuck and got printed after the close.
Now we get this at Nasdaq:
HTTP 500. We are experiencing technical difficulties.