Wait for the earnings. I got out of Apple and brought Intel and Tesla (and have done pretty well so far). I'm going to reevaluate Apple after the 23rd. If they announce a div hike or additional buyback, then it'll be time to buy.
"...it would see lower shipments of a high-volume product as an unnamed customer migrates to a newer component from Cirrus...."
criminals from Wall Street have reversed this actually very good news into another Apple's flop...
it's not anymore about Apple. It's all about Tim Cook and his incompetence to realize he is not considered as next Jobs thus not having privilege not treat Wall Street idiots the same way. Cook is a logistic specialist who needs a properly managed development side. Period.
Not really. Apple has done five revolutionary hardware products so far, and we can all see the sixth peeking out behind the curtain.
If you mean updates to said product, frick doy. What else WOULD they be?
Wall Street has always wanted every single update to every single product to be as industry-shaking as the first iteration thereof. Every single thread about a new product since the return of Steve shows you that. Wall Street is full of idiots. That's all there is to it. They want what no company can provide nor has ever provided. The trick is to ignore their stints of vacuousness and to show them where they're wrong, and Apple's great at doing that.
The technology sector has always been volatile and unforgiving. Why I really have no clue, I only know what to look for because I have been investing for 25 years. With the affordable healthcare act (Obamacare) I decided to move a lot of my money in another direction because I felt healthcare was a good place to move into. Invested back in GE when the stock was a low as 5.00 a share. Use to work for GE Capital before working for IBM.
I remember when Dell was the stock to own. Now look at it. I don't know when Apple stock will go back up, anyone that just picks a number is foolish. It will most likely get a decent bounce after the drop today. Investing in the tech sector has always made me nervous.
Your point about Wall Street is correct they want every update to be like the earth exploded and expectations are insanely unrealistic. Google may have the right idea steal everyone's data and call it a day.
I can't imagine the mental gymnastics it takes to look a company that turns a profit and then claim they are "sitting on their cash". In the last year along Apple has spent more of its profits than Amazon has ever made in its entire history as a company, private or public.
As Cook said, "a pair of tens"—billions—over the past two years.
People act like there's an obvious opportunity to spend in multiples of tens of billions. You can only build so many billion-dollar data centers at a time, open so many stores around the world, prop up so many Sharps, back so many Foxconns or TMSCs in their U.S. screen and chip plants, etc.
When Apple comes up with a new technology to spend on, of course they're going to. They already are. They don't even have a single headquarters to work out of yet, this cash pile is so new for them.
Peoples' long-range vision and attention spans are seriously deficient these days.
"...it would see lower shipments of a high-volume product as an unnamed customer migrates to a newer component from Cirrus...."
criminals from Wall Street have reversed this actually very good news into another Apple's flop...
it's not anymore about Apple. It's all about Tim Cook and his incompetence to realize he is not considered as next Jobs thus not having privilege not treat Wall Street idiots the same way. Cook is a logistic specialist who needs a properly managed development side. Period.
Criminals? Idiots? Which is it? And who the **** are you?
As Cook said, "a pair of tens"—billions—over the past two years.
People act like there's an obvious opportunity to spend in multiples of tens of billions. You can only build so many billion-dollar data centers at a time, open so many stores around the world, prop up so many Sharps, back so many Foxconns or TMSCs in their U.S. screen and chip plants, etc.
When Apple comes up with a new technology to spend on, of course they're going to. They already are. They don't even have a single headquarters to work out of yet, this cash pile is so new for them.
Peoples' long-range vision and attention spans are seriously deficient these days.
Yes, there are plenty of opportunities, including buying back your stock, paying dividends or issuing preferreds, narrowing the obscene margins to increase your market penetration, and I am sure some other things I am not thinking of just now.
The technology sector has always been volatile and unforgiving. Why I really have no clue, I only know what to look for because I have been investing for 25 years. With the affordable healthcare act (Obamacare) I decided to move a lot of my money in another direction because I felt healthcare was a good place to move into. Invested back in GE when the stock was a low as 5.00 a share. Use to work for GE Capital before working for IBM.
I remember when Dell was the stock to own. Now look at it. I don't know when Apple stock will go back up, anyone that just picks a number is foolish. It will most likely get a decent bounce after the drop today. Investing in the tech sector has always made me nervous.
Your point about Wall Street is correct they want every update to be like the earth exploded and expectations are insanely unrealistic. Google may have the right idea steal everyone's data and call it a day.
I suggest you read Einhorn's web presentation (might still be on the greenlight cap web page), he addresses this question (about tech cos, not Apple specifically)
I don't agree with you that Amazon communicates more. I tune in to CNBC on a regular basis and they're always going after Amazon for saying nothing on their earnings calls or putting out press releases with no hard information. I think it's pretty simple. The market treats Bezos like they did Jobs. He can basically get away with anything because he's treated like a messianic figure.
Read the annual "letter to shareholders" that Bezos writes: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=97664&p=irol-reportsannual. Some of it may be pap, but the point is, he does communicate more. (Apple does not -- and did not need to, as long as SJ was around -- do anything similar).
Cook et. al are unknown quantities. They have to make their case to the market. The market needs to get a sense of who they are, what they stand for, and what their strategy is, going forward. Not platitudes like "we have an amazing pipeline."
You may not like it, I may not like it, Apple may not like it, but it is simply the case right now that the negative sentiment is overwhelming, and Apple looks paralyzed. There's no way around it.
I have tremendous faith in Apple's long-run value-creation abilities, and I have little worry that the stock will rebound handsomely over a 3 - 5 year horizon. I am not selling (in fact, I bought some more today). But this kind of bloodbath needs a very strong, effective management response, or a poor reputation (which has clearly been created) will stick. And if that happens, my (cheap) prediction is that it may not end well for Cook. I sincerely hope that I am proved wrong.
What makes the market swallow Amazon's results -- such as they are -- is the fact that investors think Bezos is communicating his strategy well. For whatever reason, they trust him. He is always out there, making a case for his company, his stock, his products/services.
Apple just clams up. Not a peep. As a result, there is ton of misinformation and disinfomration that investors are simply not able to sort through. Here's s startling statistic: the volatility (measured by the annualized standard deviation) in the overall market is about 15%. Apple's was ~20% last year, and ~25% earlier this year. I the past couple of weeks, it has jumped to ~44%.
This kind of excess volatility is simply the result of no/poor/bogus/dis-/mis-information.
I've said this many times before, and I'll say it again: Cook and Oppenheimer are not terribly savvy in their dealings with the market (Jobs did not have that problem because he was a known quantity), and the Board has been absolutely atrocious.
I gotta tell you... Sometimes I think Apple should hire Bob Iger for CEO and give Tim back his old job. It really is all about perception with these Wall Street dirtbags.
Criminals - because they are manipulating the stock to lure out as much stock as possible, before sending the value in heights
Idiots - because they are loosing money with it, they will loose it even more and sending stock directly back in Apple's open hands.
What do you care, who am I? I can tell you I am not a criminal and every sane person reading my posts can also say I am not an idiot. So, I am not from Wall Street. Are you?
Criminals? Idiots? Which is it? And who the **** are you?
Criminals - because they are manipulating the stock to lure out as much stock as possible, before sending the value in heights
Idiots - because they are loosing money with it, they will loose it even more and sending stock directly back in Apple's open hands.
What do you care, who am I? I can tell you I am not a criminal and every sane person reading my posts can also say I am not an idiot. So, I am not from Wall Street. Are you?
...You may not like it, I may not like it, Apple may not like it, but it is simply the case right now that the negative sentiment is overwhelming, and Apple looks paralyzed. There's no way around it.
I have tremendous faith in Apple's long-run value-creation abilities, and I have little worry that the stock will rebound handsomely over a 3 - 5 year horizon. I am not selling (in fact, I bought some more today). But this kind of bloodbath needs a very strong, effective management response, or a poor reputation (which has clearly been created) will stick. And if that happens, my (cheap) prediction is that it may not end well for Cook. I sincerely hope that I am proved wrong.
You must keep in mind also that there are legal reasons Apple's CEO cannot simply come out swinging and attack everyone in the press. Jobs did it the right way, all behind the scenes, cursing at reporters and berating them off the record.
People act like there's an obvious opportunity to spend in multiples of tens of billions. You can only build so many billion-dollar data centers at a time, open so many stores around the world, prop up so many Sharps, back so many Foxconns or TMSCs in their U.S. screen and chip plants, etc.
If a company does not a have a 5-, 7-, 10-year roadmap and broad investment plans under likely scenarios within that roadmap, they would be stupid or naive or both. Apple is neither.
Jobs easily had that kind of vision. (Think about how long the iPad took to come to fruition, despite the fact that its development started before that for the iPhone). The market needs to believe that Cook can project that kind of vision, and not just talking points and platitudes.
It doesn't? When did they decide to no longer buy back their stock?
Their current buyback is a pittance - $2 billion a year to counter dilution from employee stock options. That is it. The company effectively has no real buyback program
Why not? I have no clue. Ask Buffett if he thinks it would be a good idea
Criminals - because they are manipulating the stock to lure out as much stock as possible, before sending the value in heights
Idiots - because they are loosing money with it, they will loose it even more and sending stock directly back in Apple's open hands.
What do you care, who am I? I can tell you I am not a criminal and every sane person reading my posts can also say I am not an idiot. So, I am not from Wall Street. Are you?
So, your first line says that this mysterious cabal is manipulating apple's stock to their advantage, and the second line says exactly the opposite. I see. As for you, my question was: do you know anything? I just looked at some of your other posts, and they are pretty idiotic, so sadly I must disagree with your second sentence.
You must keep in mind also that there are legal reasons Apple's CEO cannot simply come out swinging and attack everyone in the press. Jobs did it the right way, all behind the scenes, cursing at reporters and berating them off the record.
Why does anyone have to "come out swinging" or "attack everyone in the press" over anything?! Over what?
Nothing could be further from what I am trying to get at. I am simply suggesting that Apple needs to be seen as being pro-active and aggressive in its product/market strategy and it financial strategy. Currently, it is probably seen as passive and paralyzed.
Comments
Wait for the earnings. I got out of Apple and brought Intel and Tesla (and have done pretty well so far). I'm going to reevaluate Apple after the 23rd. If they announce a div hike or additional buyback, then it'll be time to buy.
"...it would see lower shipments of a high-volume product as an unnamed customer migrates to a newer component from Cirrus...."
criminals from Wall Street have reversed this actually very good news into another Apple's flop...
it's not anymore about Apple. It's all about Tim Cook and his incompetence to realize he is not considered as next Jobs thus not having privilege not treat Wall Street idiots the same way. Cook is a logistic specialist who needs a properly managed development side. Period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
And since they do, consistently, every quarter…
What?
Not really. Apple has done five revolutionary hardware products so far, and we can all see the sixth peeking out behind the curtain.
If you mean updates to said product, frick doy. What else WOULD they be?
Wall Street has always wanted every single update to every single product to be as industry-shaking as the first iteration thereof. Every single thread about a new product since the return of Steve shows you that. Wall Street is full of idiots. That's all there is to it. They want what no company can provide nor has ever provided. The trick is to ignore their stints of vacuousness and to show them where they're wrong, and Apple's great at doing that.
The technology sector has always been volatile and unforgiving. Why I really have no clue, I only know what to look for because I have been investing for 25 years. With the affordable healthcare act (Obamacare) I decided to move a lot of my money in another direction because I felt healthcare was a good place to move into. Invested back in GE when the stock was a low as 5.00 a share. Use to work for GE Capital before working for IBM.
I remember when Dell was the stock to own. Now look at it. I don't know when Apple stock will go back up, anyone that just picks a number is foolish. It will most likely get a decent bounce after the drop today. Investing in the tech sector has always made me nervous.
Your point about Wall Street is correct they want every update to be like the earth exploded and expectations are insanely unrealistic. Google may have the right idea steal everyone's data and call it a day.
As Cook said, "a pair of tens"—billions—over the past two years.
People act like there's an obvious opportunity to spend in multiples of tens of billions. You can only build so many billion-dollar data centers at a time, open so many stores around the world, prop up so many Sharps, back so many Foxconns or TMSCs in their U.S. screen and chip plants, etc.
When Apple comes up with a new technology to spend on, of course they're going to. They already are. They don't even have a single headquarters to work out of yet, this cash pile is so new for them.
Peoples' long-range vision and attention spans are seriously deficient these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
This person should be fired as a troll for losing his grasp of mature discourse.
By the way, he's back from lunch. I said I would ignore him when he trashed the other thread, but this specimen is too easy a target.
Solidarity!
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi
"...it would see lower shipments of a high-volume product as an unnamed customer migrates to a newer component from Cirrus...."
criminals from Wall Street have reversed this actually very good news into another Apple's flop...
it's not anymore about Apple. It's all about Tim Cook and his incompetence to realize he is not considered as next Jobs thus not having privilege not treat Wall Street idiots the same way. Cook is a logistic specialist who needs a properly managed development side. Period.
Criminals? Idiots? Which is it? And who the **** are you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
As Cook said, "a pair of tens"—billions—over the past two years.
People act like there's an obvious opportunity to spend in multiples of tens of billions. You can only build so many billion-dollar data centers at a time, open so many stores around the world, prop up so many Sharps, back so many Foxconns or TMSCs in their U.S. screen and chip plants, etc.
When Apple comes up with a new technology to spend on, of course they're going to. They already are. They don't even have a single headquarters to work out of yet, this cash pile is so new for them.
Peoples' long-range vision and attention spans are seriously deficient these days.
Yes, there are plenty of opportunities, including buying back your stock, paying dividends or issuing preferreds, narrowing the obscene margins to increase your market penetration, and I am sure some other things I am not thinking of just now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teamracer
The moment the stock went under 420 was a good time to sell. (stop loss at 219,70)
If it goes under 400, it could go under 390 ?
Perhaps 390 is a good entry point. Only time will tell ....
But perhaps we better wait until some good news and product presentations form apple to reinvest the cash.
I still own 60% of my initial 100% shares. :-(
Best regards
Why are you " :-( "?
Did you buy high?
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater
The technology sector has always been volatile and unforgiving. Why I really have no clue, I only know what to look for because I have been investing for 25 years. With the affordable healthcare act (Obamacare) I decided to move a lot of my money in another direction because I felt healthcare was a good place to move into. Invested back in GE when the stock was a low as 5.00 a share. Use to work for GE Capital before working for IBM.
I remember when Dell was the stock to own. Now look at it. I don't know when Apple stock will go back up, anyone that just picks a number is foolish. It will most likely get a decent bounce after the drop today. Investing in the tech sector has always made me nervous.
Your point about Wall Street is correct they want every update to be like the earth exploded and expectations are insanely unrealistic. Google may have the right idea steal everyone's data and call it a day.
I suggest you read Einhorn's web presentation (might still be on the greenlight cap web page), he addresses this question (about tech cos, not Apple specifically)
Nah! It's Michael Dell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
I don't agree with you that Amazon communicates more. I tune in to CNBC on a regular basis and they're always going after Amazon for saying nothing on their earnings calls or putting out press releases with no hard information. I think it's pretty simple. The market treats Bezos like they did Jobs. He can basically get away with anything because he's treated like a messianic figure.
Read the annual "letter to shareholders" that Bezos writes: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=97664&p=irol-reportsannual. Some of it may be pap, but the point is, he does communicate more. (Apple does not -- and did not need to, as long as SJ was around -- do anything similar).
Cook et. al are unknown quantities. They have to make their case to the market. The market needs to get a sense of who they are, what they stand for, and what their strategy is, going forward. Not platitudes like "we have an amazing pipeline."
You may not like it, I may not like it, Apple may not like it, but it is simply the case right now that the negative sentiment is overwhelming, and Apple looks paralyzed. There's no way around it.
I have tremendous faith in Apple's long-run value-creation abilities, and I have little worry that the stock will rebound handsomely over a 3 - 5 year horizon. I am not selling (in fact, I bought some more today). But this kind of bloodbath needs a very strong, effective management response, or a poor reputation (which has clearly been created) will stick. And if that happens, my (cheap) prediction is that it may not end well for Cook. I sincerely hope that I am proved wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
What makes the market swallow Amazon's results -- such as they are -- is the fact that investors think Bezos is communicating his strategy well. For whatever reason, they trust him. He is always out there, making a case for his company, his stock, his products/services.
Apple just clams up. Not a peep. As a result, there is ton of misinformation and disinfomration that investors are simply not able to sort through. Here's s startling statistic: the volatility (measured by the annualized standard deviation) in the overall market is about 15%. Apple's was ~20% last year, and ~25% earlier this year. I the past couple of weeks, it has jumped to ~44%.
This kind of excess volatility is simply the result of no/poor/bogus/dis-/mis-information.
I've said this many times before, and I'll say it again: Cook and Oppenheimer are not terribly savvy in their dealings with the market (Jobs did not have that problem because he was a known quantity), and the Board has been absolutely atrocious.
I gotta tell you... Sometimes I think Apple should hire Bob Iger for CEO and give Tim back his old job. It really is all about perception with these Wall Street dirtbags.
Originally Posted by extremeskater
Google may have the right idea steal everyone's data and call it a day.
Just reading this is funny to me. Glad for a laugh today.
Criminals - because they are manipulating the stock to lure out as much stock as possible, before sending the value in heights
Idiots - because they are loosing money with it, they will loose it even more and sending stock directly back in Apple's open hands.
What do you care, who am I? I can tell you I am not a criminal and every sane person reading my posts can also say I am not an idiot. So, I am not from Wall Street. Are you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
Criminals? Idiots? Which is it? And who the **** are you?
Criminals - because they are manipulating the stock to lure out as much stock as possible, before sending the value in heights
Idiots - because they are loosing money with it, they will loose it even more and sending stock directly back in Apple's open hands.
What do you care, who am I? I can tell you I am not a criminal and every sane person reading my posts can also say I am not an idiot. So, I am not from Wall Street. Are you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
...You may not like it, I may not like it, Apple may not like it, but it is simply the case right now that the negative sentiment is overwhelming, and Apple looks paralyzed. There's no way around it.
I have tremendous faith in Apple's long-run value-creation abilities, and I have little worry that the stock will rebound handsomely over a 3 - 5 year horizon. I am not selling (in fact, I bought some more today). But this kind of bloodbath needs a very strong, effective management response, or a poor reputation (which has clearly been created) will stick. And if that happens, my (cheap) prediction is that it may not end well for Cook. I sincerely hope that I am proved wrong.
You must keep in mind also that there are legal reasons Apple's CEO cannot simply come out swinging and attack everyone in the press. Jobs did it the right way, all behind the scenes, cursing at reporters and berating them off the record.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
People act like there's an obvious opportunity to spend in multiples of tens of billions. You can only build so many billion-dollar data centers at a time, open so many stores around the world, prop up so many Sharps, back so many Foxconns or TMSCs in their U.S. screen and chip plants, etc.
If a company does not a have a 5-, 7-, 10-year roadmap and broad investment plans under likely scenarios within that roadmap, they would be stupid or naive or both. Apple is neither.
Jobs easily had that kind of vision. (Think about how long the iPad took to come to fruition, despite the fact that its development started before that for the iPhone). The market needs to believe that Cook can project that kind of vision, and not just talking points and platitudes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
It doesn't? When did they decide to no longer buy back their stock?
Their current buyback is a pittance - $2 billion a year to counter dilution from employee stock options. That is it. The company effectively has no real buyback program
Why not? I have no clue. Ask Buffett if he thinks it would be a good idea
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi
Criminals - because they are manipulating the stock to lure out as much stock as possible, before sending the value in heights
Idiots - because they are loosing money with it, they will loose it even more and sending stock directly back in Apple's open hands.
What do you care, who am I? I can tell you I am not a criminal and every sane person reading my posts can also say I am not an idiot. So, I am not from Wall Street. Are you?
So, your first line says that this mysterious cabal is manipulating apple's stock to their advantage, and the second line says exactly the opposite. I see. As for you, my question was: do you know anything? I just looked at some of your other posts, and they are pretty idiotic, so sadly I must disagree with your second sentence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
You must keep in mind also that there are legal reasons Apple's CEO cannot simply come out swinging and attack everyone in the press. Jobs did it the right way, all behind the scenes, cursing at reporters and berating them off the record.
Why does anyone have to "come out swinging" or "attack everyone in the press" over anything?! Over what?
Nothing could be further from what I am trying to get at. I am simply suggesting that Apple needs to be seen as being pro-active and aggressive in its product/market strategy and it financial strategy. Currently, it is probably seen as passive and paralyzed.