Why can't they make a 5" iPhone? Why can't they open up iOS? Why can't they make a cheaper Mac Pro? Why can't they make a 15" iPad? Why can't they add a user-accessible file system to iOS?
It all falls under what they think is right move to make.
That's a bit overwrought. With the exception of the use accessible file system (although there must surely be a better way than what is presently available in iOS), the rest of your examples are new products.
Adding the ability to receive calls is some simple additional functionality to an existing device.
As to what "[Apple] think is the right move to make," if that were the standard, we might as well delete half the posts in AI (including many of yours).
So blindly saying it's a bad idea tells me all I need to know about the person's thought process. At the least they would need to do focus group studies to determine the popularity of the device and I'm willing to bet in lower income areas it would have appeal. I would bet others would have a reason to like it as well.
A tablet that can be used as a phone makes a lot of sense in the business world, so I don't think this product will only apeal to lower incomers. If Apple responds I'm sure they will find an innovative way to get past the technical issues that some have posted about.
Not a "stupid idea" for everyone... [...] If the iPad could make/receive phone calls, I could carry only one device.. The iPad screen and kb better serve my old eyes and fat fingers!
I can't stand holding a phone against the side of my head so I always use the earbuds with microphone that came with the phone. That renders the size of the device irrelevant for voice calling applications.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
BTW, As you mature you care more about results than how you look to others...
I'm even considering going back to carrying my phone on a belt clip. Let the kids laugh, it's more practical and convenient and I don't care what they think.
I do too (although not all the time). Including on my iPhone. That doesn't mean I don't make/receive carrier-based calls on my iPhone.
I'm just suggesting that if someone truly needs phone-like functionality on their iPad, Skype is the way to go right now. Anyway, in order to add traditional carrier based phone service to an iPad it would pretty much necessitate having a separate phone number unlike with Skype which can utilize the same virtual phone number across all of your devices and computers. I believe Apple would gain very little advantage adding cellular voice capability to an iPad and it might actually harm the sales of the iPhone. I am sure there are many customers like me who have both iPad and iPhone. I have cell data on both of my iPads, which I use occasionally but I never go anywhere without my iPhone. If the carriers really wanted to offer that service they could just write their own Skype-like app and subsidize the iPad themselves. They don't really need Apple to do it for them.
That's a bit overwrought. With the exception of the use accessible file system (although there must surely be a better way than what is presently available in iOS), the rest of your examples are new products.
There are an innumerable number of examples to choose from. Those are just off the top of my head.
Adding the ability to receive calls is some simple additional functionality to an existing device.
Is it? I've already shown that it wasn't even possible in the base HW until the iPad 4 which is only 6 months old. We also don't know that Apple is buying the right HW configurations that make even if they added the dial app from the iPhone. Remember that it's more than just the baseband chip that makes cellular connectivity possible. The iPad 4 has been jailbroken and the baseband is unlocked right, so has any hacker done this yet? I've also mentioned the possibility that licensing costs could be affected if they were to up the baseband and add the dialer software; can they do legally do that after the fact? Did the FCC (and all other such agencies) test the device for voice? Is that even a distinct test than just testing the radios for data? Again, what about the politics in regards for their carrier partners.
As to what "[Apple] think is the right move to make," if that were the standard, we might as well delete half the posts in AI (including many of yours).
There is a dramatic difference between wanting Apple to do something then claiming Apple is wrong or shortsighted for not offering it despite not even thinking about any of the possible reasons why it hasn't happened, and taking a rumour, desire, or other value as a starting point then walking it down a "what if" path by examining all known values to figure out why it doesn't exist and/or how it possibly could exist. For example, when the iPad mini rumours came out the rumour was a 7.85" display which happened to be the same PPI as the iPhone. There was no proof they would make this product but that rumour (regardless of how it started) made sense from a technical standpoint. Does that mean Apple couldn't have gone with a new resolution, instead of 1024x768, and used a unique pixel density? Of course, but that is harder path to follow on its own than using Apple's MO as a guide.
good point. In my case, my kids are on iPhones and I can receive FaceTime calls from them on my iPad and iMac. Facetime is a built in feature with apple and I also use it to communicate with customers from my devices. I prefer the larger screen on my iPad for facetime calls and as it works out, it is cheaper to have a data plan for your iPad than it is to have multiple cell phone services.
That would be great if everyone I know had an iDevice. As of today, using FaceTime as my only calling option I would be cut off from my daughter, my dad, both of the other guys in my department and ALL of the landlines at my place of employment. I couldn't make an appointment with the doctor or dentist, call the local shop to see if they have a part in stock, or reach 911 to report that I'm being murdered by a man with a chain saw.
The problem I have with an iPad is that I _don't_ want to carry it everywhere. I already find having an iPhone in my pocket to be uncomfortable at times (e.g. while driving). Can't imagine what I'd do if my iPad was always on me.
I'm not always wearing a coat, and don't want to permanently have a bag (which I'll inevitably forget somewhere). So where do I put the iPad when I just want it out of the way? No thanks. It's not a fashion thing, it's a function thing -- I like having two hands free to deal with life.
I use Skype all the time. It is more ubiquitous than iMessage, FaceTime, or Google Voice ( the latter I have never used though) and a lot less expensive than international SMS or traditional phone calls. It also works on almost any modern device which is why so many people who call internationally have it installed. Skype was pretty buggy on the original iOS but the latest version works really well. I've been using the paid minutes and virtual phone number for Skype for several years now.
I can't stand Skype, it's an overhyped poorly designed mess IMO. However ...
I hate this carrying (and paying for) two devices so much that I would switch to Skype if I could. It's not possible to switch to Skype in some countries however (Canada for instance), because you can't get a phone number. So Skype is never going to be a "full phone replacement" in Canada for starters.
This is only a failing of Skype however. Apple (or anybody really) could easily create a new system that's very much like Skype, but without these drawbacks. I'm sure Skype will figure this stuff out in a few years too so we could all wait for that but who knows how long it will take.
I'm sure if Apple made it, it would work better than Skype, look better than Skype and solve other problems about Skype that we aren't even aware of at the moment.
I've never figured out why the iPad cannot receive calls.
Time for Apple to change that.
The same reason iPhones don't have expandable memory, older iPhones can't get full features from new iOS updates, iOS on iPhones and iPads behave differently, etc. Apple would probably tell you it's their way of preserving the unique user experience for each type of device. To me, it's just captive marketing so they can make more money from you.
I hate this carrying (and paying for) two devices so much that I would switch to Skype if I could. It's not possible to switch to Skype in some countries however (Canada for instance), because you can't get a phone number. So Skype is never going to be a "full phone replacement" in Canada for starters.
I don't have any issues with the Skype app but it will never be a complete replacement for a cell phone so long as you can't call 911. Interestingly you can't call 911 on an iPhone without great difficulty if you are blind. Siri refuses to do that task.
Nevertheless I would not place the blame on Skype for lack of phone numbers in Canada. Skype has phone numbers for all kinds of small third world countries. I don't know the reason for lack of Canada numbers but I would suspect it is some restriction made by Canada not Skype.
To carry a 7" anything just to make a phone call is crazy.
What's harder to carry -- a 7" smartphone or a 7" iPad *AND* a telephone? If one is carrying an iPad anyway, why not consolidate the two?
The whole point is that the device is not ONLY for phone calls. That's one function among many. A size that's good for a phone is lousy for a handheld computer, and, to a lesser degree, vice-versa.
If the desire is to have only one device that serves multiple purposes, trade-offs have to be made. *I* would prefer to trade compactness for a larger working area. How does that affect you? Why would you object? No one is forcing YOU to choose the same device I use, but you seem to object to me having something other than what YOU want. How come?
I think Apple should offer optional cell phone capabilities on ALL of their other mobile products (iPads, and even laptops).
If they did this we would have added two Airs to our Apple arsenal by now. For the things we want to do with a portable computer the flat form factor of a tablet makes it awkward to use. A tiny, light "laptop" style device is much better suited to our needs, but there's no WiFi where we would use them.
I think we're at a point in personal computing where having at least a cellular option for laptops makes sense.
I don't have any issues with the Skype app but it will never be a complete replacement for a cell phone so long as you can't call 911. Interestingly you can't call 911 on an iPhone without great difficulty if you are blind. Siri refuses to do that task.
Nevertheless I would not place the blame on Skype for lack of phone numbers in Canada. Skype has phone numbers for all kinds of small third world countries. I don't know the reason for lack of Canada numbers but I would suspect it is some restriction made by Canada not Skype.
The reason is the very understandable fact that you can't make emergency phone calls from Skype as you yourself mention. Canada, (like several other countries), has a very rational and understandable law that you cannot sell a phone service if it cannot be used to dial 911. That's what I was referring to. If Skype would make 911 calls, then Canada would allow it to issue phone numbers in Canada.
I was disappointed when I found out about this of course as you can get phone numbers in the US, UK, etc., but I would argue this is definitely Skypes "fault." Once I understood the restriction it makes total sense. It's a health and safety issue and no country with the wisdom to have the restriction in the first place is going to change it anytime soon. I'm a bit surprised that any country would allow a phone service that cannot be used for emergencies. It's one of the main reason the telephone networks exist in the first place after all.
Anyway, without an actual phone number that's tied to the country of origin, I don't think you can rightly call anything a "phone replacement," so Skype fails on that front unless you are in a country that can get phone numbers. Even then, you have to take the SIM out of your phone, put it in the iPad without telling the carrier, then set up a re-direct so your phone calls from the "real" phone number get routed to your Skype phone number. It's hardly a working system at all.
Skype needs to get their fingers out and step up to the plate in terms of expanding service and fixing these kinds of issues but ever since Microsoft bought them they've been on a long slide into inactivity IMO.
You're missing the point. Many of us never "make phone calls" anymore. We are just (sadly) the recipient of a few such calls now and then.
Exactly - barely ever use my iPhone as an actual phone. It gets mostly used for iMessage (and other instant messaging), email, web, Pandora, etc. I have considered going the VOIP route with an iPad Mini to handle the occasional calls -- with LTE service (and even good 3G service) it seems that there would be good enough speed that it should work well.
Not a "stupid idea" for everyone... I am 73 years old, retired... I receive/make only a few calls per day. During the grandkids soccer season (6 practices and 3 games per week) I carry an iPad and an iPhone. The phone calls are only used to co-ordinate pickups and game times, etc.
If the iPad could make/receive phone calls, I could carry only one device.. The iPad screen and kb better serve my old eyes and fat fingers!
BTW, As you mature you care more about results than how you look to others...
Excellent points. I'm not too crazy about the look of the tablet, but I'd much rather have a large table with cellular service than a small phone with tiny web browser/email reader/etc.
The reason is the very understandable fact that you can't make emergency phone calls from Skype as you yourself mention. Canada, (like several other countries), has a very rational and understandable law that you cannot sell a phone service if it cannot be used to dial 911. That's what I was referring to. If Skype would make 911 calls, then Canada would allow it to issue phone numbers in Canada.
[...]
Skype needs to get their fingers out and step up to the plate in terms of expanding service and fixing these kinds of issues but ever since Microsoft bought them they've been on a long slide into inactivity IMO.
I'm not sure how Skype is expected to know where on the planet you are while using your virtual phone number. For example when I am in Central America I can call people in the US and my US Skype number is in the caller ID and also in the users contact list. If I was to call 911, where exactly would the call go? What possible good would it be to place a call to 911 in the area code of my US number when I'm actually 6000km away from that location? Even if they could know exactly where I was, there is no 911 service in every location, although we did recently get it, but I have not used it so I am unsure how well it works yet. When you sign up for Skype they make sure you know there is no 911 service. If you forget that or ignore it, how is that Skype's fault?
BTW in my experience it was only after MS bought Skype that we finally got a robust iOS version that didn't crash all the time.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Why can't they make a 5" iPhone? Why can't they open up iOS? Why can't they make a cheaper Mac Pro? Why can't they make a 15" iPad? Why can't they add a user-accessible file system to iOS?
It all falls under what they think is right move to make.
That's a bit overwrought. With the exception of the use accessible file system (although there must surely be a better way than what is presently available in iOS), the rest of your examples are new products.
Adding the ability to receive calls is some simple additional functionality to an existing device.
As to what "[Apple] think is the right move to make," if that were the standard, we might as well delete half the posts in AI (including many of yours).
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkell31
So blindly saying it's a bad idea tells me all I need to know about the person's thought process. At the least they would need to do focus group studies to determine the popularity of the device and I'm willing to bet in lower income areas it would have appeal. I would bet others would have a reason to like it as well.
A tablet that can be used as a phone makes a lot of sense in the business world, so I don't think this product will only apeal to lower incomers. If Apple responds I'm sure they will find an innovative way to get past the technical issues that some have posted about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I use Skype all the time.
I do too (although not all the time). Including on my iPhone. That doesn't mean I don't make/receive carrier-based calls on my iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Not a "stupid idea" for everyone... [...] If the iPad could make/receive phone calls, I could carry only one device.. The iPad screen and kb better serve my old eyes and fat fingers!
I can't stand holding a phone against the side of my head so I always use the earbuds with microphone that came with the phone. That renders the size of the device irrelevant for voice calling applications.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
BTW, As you mature you care more about results than how you look to others...
I'm even considering going back to carrying my phone on a belt clip. Let the kids laugh, it's more practical and convenient and I don't care what they think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I use Skype all the time.
I do too (although not all the time). Including on my iPhone. That doesn't mean I don't make/receive carrier-based calls on my iPhone.
I'm just suggesting that if someone truly needs phone-like functionality on their iPad, Skype is the way to go right now. Anyway, in order to add traditional carrier based phone service to an iPad it would pretty much necessitate having a separate phone number unlike with Skype which can utilize the same virtual phone number across all of your devices and computers. I believe Apple would gain very little advantage adding cellular voice capability to an iPad and it might actually harm the sales of the iPhone. I am sure there are many customers like me who have both iPad and iPhone. I have cell data on both of my iPads, which I use occasionally but I never go anywhere without my iPhone. If the carriers really wanted to offer that service they could just write their own Skype-like app and subsidize the iPad themselves. They don't really need Apple to do it for them.
There are an innumerable number of examples to choose from. Those are just off the top of my head.
Is it? I've already shown that it wasn't even possible in the base HW until the iPad 4 which is only 6 months old. We also don't know that Apple is buying the right HW configurations that make even if they added the dial app from the iPhone. Remember that it's more than just the baseband chip that makes cellular connectivity possible. The iPad 4 has been jailbroken and the baseband is unlocked right, so has any hacker done this yet? I've also mentioned the possibility that licensing costs could be affected if they were to up the baseband and add the dialer software; can they do legally do that after the fact? Did the FCC (and all other such agencies) test the device for voice? Is that even a distinct test than just testing the radios for data? Again, what about the politics in regards for their carrier partners.
There is a dramatic difference between wanting Apple to do something then claiming Apple is wrong or shortsighted for not offering it despite not even thinking about any of the possible reasons why it hasn't happened, and taking a rumour, desire, or other value as a starting point then walking it down a "what if" path by examining all known values to figure out why it doesn't exist and/or how it possibly could exist. For example, when the iPad mini rumours came out the rumour was a 7.85" display which happened to be the same PPI as the iPhone. There was no proof they would make this product but that rumour (regardless of how it started) made sense from a technical standpoint. Does that mean Apple couldn't have gone with a new resolution, instead of 1024x768, and used a unique pixel density? Of course, but that is harder path to follow on its own than using Apple's MO as a guide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mecca
good point. In my case, my kids are on iPhones and I can receive FaceTime calls from them on my iPad and iMac. Facetime is a built in feature with apple and I also use it to communicate with customers from my devices. I prefer the larger screen on my iPad for facetime calls and as it works out, it is cheaper to have a data plan for your iPad than it is to have multiple cell phone services.
That would be great if everyone I know had an iDevice. As of today, using FaceTime as my only calling option I would be cut off from my daughter, my dad, both of the other guys in my department and ALL of the landlines at my place of employment. I couldn't make an appointment with the doctor or dentist, call the local shop to see if they have a part in stock, or reach 911 to report that I'm being murdered by a man with a chain saw.
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio
The problem I have with an iPad is that I _don't_ want to carry it everywhere. I already find having an iPhone in my pocket to be uncomfortable at times (e.g. while driving). Can't imagine what I'd do if my iPad was always on me.
I'm not always wearing a coat, and don't want to permanently have a bag (which I'll inevitably forget somewhere). So where do I put the iPad when I just want it out of the way? No thanks. It's not a fashion thing, it's a function thing -- I like having two hands free to deal with life.
Why not just buy a pair of these?
http://gadgethim.com/ipad-pants/
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I use Skype all the time. It is more ubiquitous than iMessage, FaceTime, or Google Voice ( the latter I have never used though) and a lot less expensive than international SMS or traditional phone calls. It also works on almost any modern device which is why so many people who call internationally have it installed. Skype was pretty buggy on the original iOS but the latest version works really well. I've been using the paid minutes and virtual phone number for Skype for several years now.
I can't stand Skype, it's an overhyped poorly designed mess IMO. However ...
I hate this carrying (and paying for) two devices so much that I would switch to Skype if I could. It's not possible to switch to Skype in some countries however (Canada for instance), because you can't get a phone number. So Skype is never going to be a "full phone replacement" in Canada for starters.
This is only a failing of Skype however. Apple (or anybody really) could easily create a new system that's very much like Skype, but without these drawbacks. I'm sure Skype will figure this stuff out in a few years too so we could all wait for that but who knows how long it will take.
I'm sure if Apple made it, it would work better than Skype, look better than Skype and solve other problems about Skype that we aren't even aware of at the moment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
I've never figured out why the iPad cannot receive calls.
Time for Apple to change that.
The same reason iPhones don't have expandable memory, older iPhones can't get full features from new iOS updates, iOS on iPhones and iPads behave differently, etc. Apple would probably tell you it's their way of preserving the unique user experience for each type of device. To me, it's just captive marketing so they can make more money from you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
I hate this carrying (and paying for) two devices so much that I would switch to Skype if I could. It's not possible to switch to Skype in some countries however (Canada for instance), because you can't get a phone number. So Skype is never going to be a "full phone replacement" in Canada for starters.
I don't have any issues with the Skype app but it will never be a complete replacement for a cell phone so long as you can't call 911. Interestingly you can't call 911 on an iPhone without great difficulty if you are blind. Siri refuses to do that task.
Nevertheless I would not place the blame on Skype for lack of phone numbers in Canada. Skype has phone numbers for all kinds of small third world countries. I don't know the reason for lack of Canada numbers but I would suspect it is some restriction made by Canada not Skype.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo
... To carry a 7" anything just to make a phone call is crazy ....
You're missing the point. Many of us never "make phone calls" anymore. We are just (sadly) the recipient of a few such calls now and then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo
To carry a 7" anything just to make a phone call is crazy.
What's harder to carry -- a 7" smartphone or a 7" iPad *AND* a telephone? If one is carrying an iPad anyway, why not consolidate the two?
The whole point is that the device is not ONLY for phone calls. That's one function among many. A size that's good for a phone is lousy for a handheld computer, and, to a lesser degree, vice-versa.
If the desire is to have only one device that serves multiple purposes, trade-offs have to be made. *I* would prefer to trade compactness for a larger working area. How does that affect you? Why would you object? No one is forcing YOU to choose the same device I use, but you seem to object to me having something other than what YOU want. How come?
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
I think Apple should offer optional cell phone capabilities on ALL of their other mobile products (iPads, and even laptops).
If they did this we would have added two Airs to our Apple arsenal by now. For the things we want to do with a portable computer the flat form factor of a tablet makes it awkward to use. A tiny, light "laptop" style device is much better suited to our needs, but there's no WiFi where we would use them.
I think we're at a point in personal computing where having at least a cellular option for laptops makes sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I don't have any issues with the Skype app but it will never be a complete replacement for a cell phone so long as you can't call 911. Interestingly you can't call 911 on an iPhone without great difficulty if you are blind. Siri refuses to do that task.
Nevertheless I would not place the blame on Skype for lack of phone numbers in Canada. Skype has phone numbers for all kinds of small third world countries. I don't know the reason for lack of Canada numbers but I would suspect it is some restriction made by Canada not Skype.
The reason is the very understandable fact that you can't make emergency phone calls from Skype as you yourself mention. Canada, (like several other countries), has a very rational and understandable law that you cannot sell a phone service if it cannot be used to dial 911. That's what I was referring to. If Skype would make 911 calls, then Canada would allow it to issue phone numbers in Canada.
I was disappointed when I found out about this of course as you can get phone numbers in the US, UK, etc., but I would argue this is definitely Skypes "fault." Once I understood the restriction it makes total sense. It's a health and safety issue and no country with the wisdom to have the restriction in the first place is going to change it anytime soon. I'm a bit surprised that any country would allow a phone service that cannot be used for emergencies. It's one of the main reason the telephone networks exist in the first place after all.
Anyway, without an actual phone number that's tied to the country of origin, I don't think you can rightly call anything a "phone replacement," so Skype fails on that front unless you are in a country that can get phone numbers. Even then, you have to take the SIM out of your phone, put it in the iPad without telling the carrier, then set up a re-direct so your phone calls from the "real" phone number get routed to your Skype phone number. It's hardly a working system at all.
Skype needs to get their fingers out and step up to the plate in terms of expanding service and fixing these kinds of issues but ever since Microsoft bought them they've been on a long slide into inactivity IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
You're missing the point. Many of us never "make phone calls" anymore. We are just (sadly) the recipient of a few such calls now and then.
Exactly - barely ever use my iPhone as an actual phone. It gets mostly used for iMessage (and other instant messaging), email, web, Pandora, etc. I have considered going the VOIP route with an iPad Mini to handle the occasional calls -- with LTE service (and even good 3G service) it seems that there would be good enough speed that it should work well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Not a "stupid idea" for everyone... I am 73 years old, retired... I receive/make only a few calls per day. During the grandkids soccer season (6 practices and 3 games per week) I carry an iPad and an iPhone. The phone calls are only used to co-ordinate pickups and game times, etc.
If the iPad could make/receive phone calls, I could carry only one device.. The iPad screen and kb better serve my old eyes and fat fingers!
BTW, As you mature you care more about results than how you look to others...
Excellent points. I'm not too crazy about the look of the tablet, but I'd much rather have a large table with cellular service than a small phone with tiny web browser/email reader/etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
The reason is the very understandable fact that you can't make emergency phone calls from Skype as you yourself mention. Canada, (like several other countries), has a very rational and understandable law that you cannot sell a phone service if it cannot be used to dial 911. That's what I was referring to. If Skype would make 911 calls, then Canada would allow it to issue phone numbers in Canada.
[...]
Skype needs to get their fingers out and step up to the plate in terms of expanding service and fixing these kinds of issues but ever since Microsoft bought them they've been on a long slide into inactivity IMO.
I'm not sure how Skype is expected to know where on the planet you are while using your virtual phone number. For example when I am in Central America I can call people in the US and my US Skype number is in the caller ID and also in the users contact list. If I was to call 911, where exactly would the call go? What possible good would it be to place a call to 911 in the area code of my US number when I'm actually 6000km away from that location? Even if they could know exactly where I was, there is no 911 service in every location, although we did recently get it, but I have not used it so I am unsure how well it works yet. When you sign up for Skype they make sure you know there is no 911 service. If you forget that or ignore it, how is that Skype's fault?
BTW in my experience it was only after MS bought Skype that we finally got a robust iOS version that didn't crash all the time.