'Dramatic changes' to Apple's iOS 7 said to include Calendar, Mail app overhauls

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  • Reply 21 of 139
    richlrichl Posts: 2,213member
    Looking forward to the Mail redesign. The current Mail app's search functionality is dreadful.
  • Reply 22 of 139
    pfisherpfisher Posts: 758member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post



    I don't care about skeuomorphism. If that's is the only changes the Ive is pushing, then Apple has problems. Contacts, calendar, mail do not work and does not have the functionality of OS X applications. Calendars, only two alerts, no custom repeats. Contacts: No ability to search within groups, no ability to move contacts into groups, or multiple groups. Mail: No rules.



    Especially because the need for a laptop is supposed to no longer be required, iOS 7 apps need all the functionality that would be expected in a laptop version. Nothing short of full functionality is acceptable.



    Then, additional functionality is apps in iOS 7 need to be able to share data between apps. Siloing of apps has significant downsides.



    Then iBook and ePub. Taking notes and organizing notes on reading materials is a needed function. This can be done either by enhancing iBook or by allowing other apps to supplement iBooks, but it is required for books which are to be digested, not just tasted. The ePub and Apple's implementation needs to support math notation fully; Kindle is better at this point.




    Mail is pretty bad. I end up going to Chrome on iPhone to search my Google Mail.


     


    I want to be able to set Chrome as default browser on iOS. Don't care for Safari.


     


    Come to think of it, Google's apps are usually a lot better than Apple's. Many of my most-used apps are from Google. Google Now is pretty amazing - catching buses and getting food - it's great.


     


    No time for analysis now, but I just don't like Mail or many of its apps. Podcasts has gotten better. Still use Google Map. Generally don't use Apple apps on iPhone. I put them in a folder and put them on the last screen of my phone. Sadly, can't delete them.

  • Reply 23 of 139
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    I just don't want Ive to make iOS or OS X into something that looks like Microsoft's crap or Google's rip off of Microsoft's crap.



    His hardware designs have a history of making the competition look instantly out of date. I hope his GUI designs will too but it remains to be seen. But at the very least I am convinced he has taste so am not too worried.

  • Reply 24 of 139
    macboy promacboy pro Posts: 54member
    I'd like to simply be able to attach a logo to my signature in the mail app. Too much to ask?
  • Reply 25 of 139
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,166member
    All these people against "all skeuomorphism" are against the concept of a button, so it'll be interesting to see how they'd like to use their OS.

    I just don't want Ive to make iOS or OS X into something that looks like Microsoft's crap or Google's rip off of Microsoft's crap.

    Agreed. I feel the key is not using skeuomorphism that looks bad (which of course is down to taste) there are examples where it can work, however Game Center isn't one IMHO. Or as you infer, there's a risk in taking it too far and making Apple's GUI look too simple and boring. I have faith Jony will do this right and make OS X and iOS look awesome. After all, given he can agonize over the angle of a chamfer in an iPhone so it 'catches the light just right' he isn't someone who would like Windows 8 anymore than you and me.
  • Reply 26 of 139
    irelandireland Posts: 17,570member
    richl wrote: »
    Looking forward to the Mail redesign. The current Mail app's search functionality is dreadful.

    Yeah it doesn't really work.
  • Reply 27 of 139
    irelandireland Posts: 17,570member
    ascii wrote: »
    His hardware designs have a history of making the competition look instantly out of date. I hope his GUI designs will too but it remains to be seen. But at the very least I am convinced he has taste so am not too worried.

    I shouldn't be worried because I definitely like how he thinks about design and I'm aware he's a genius, and I love his product design, but the anticipation is so high it's boiling over into worry for me. Haha
  • Reply 28 of 139
    suddenly newtonsuddenly newton Posts: 13,751member
    I like the page turning animation of iBooks, but the wooden bookshelf can go. Cover flow works for me.
  • Reply 29 of 139
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by realpaulfreeman View Post



    There's skeuomorphism done badly but it can be done well.



    For example the OSX windowing system uses subtle shading which is skeuomorphic but its not directly representational.



    So a periodicals shelf that is made of something 'glassy' might keep with an overall design language of transparency while still being skeuomorphic would not be 'naff' like a poor copy of a woodgrain.



    I think of things such as time machine as having a kind of design that moves a step beyond skeuomorphism to a kind of metaphorical design based on something that might exist in the future rather than the past.



    By the way, I think the WWDC 2013 logo carries a strong hint of something coming which will be multichromatic. Lets not forget Jony's first hit... the translucent blue and orange iMacs!



    I think we are going to get some treats from Apple even before some of the surprises due in the fall.



     


     


    Not to pick on you particularly, but most folks are really not clear on what skeuomorphism actually is.  skeuomorphism *isn't* just shading or "3D" effects, it only applies to actual representations of real world objects.  It seems that when most people on this thread say skeuomorphism, they are meaning "anything that isn't totally flat" and that's just not right.  


     


    So there are really two issues here.  "Skeuomorphism" and "Flatness."  It gets a bit fuzzier when you consider that many apps are not themselves skeuomorphic but contain skeuomorphic "elements."  For instance the Camera app is not skeuomorphic, but the shutter it uses is.  Pages and Numbers are similarly not skeuomorphic, but they have a few textures that could be swapped out for less realistic ones.  Other apps have skeuomorphic "splash screens" like Game Centre, but are otherwise not really skeuomorphic at all.  


     


    I would argue that the real list of "skeuomorphic" (built-in) Apps goes like this:


     


    Notes, iBooks, Contacts, Calendar, Newstand, iPhoto, Garage Band


     


    I would say that "Notes" is by far the most egregious (witness the plethora of Notes replacements in the store), "Calendar" is next, followed by iBooks and Newstand which have those unfortunate wooden shelves and iPhoto, which doubles down on the situation by using those ugly plastic "photo albums" on glass shelves.  (insert sounds of retching here)


     


    Funnily enough though, the most skeuomorphic app of all, Garage Band, is brilliant, attractive and would be completely ruined if the skeuomorphic elements were removed.  The paintbrushes in iPhoto are likely in the same situation in that they are also skeuomorphic, but also quite brilliant and useful to boot. 


     


    So it seems to me that as long as they leave the "3D" stuff alone, or the stuff that is merely 3D-ish looking and focus only on the skeuomorphism it's actually a quick fix for most apps and that the fix will please most people and not remove any functionality.  (assuming they leave Garage Band alone and don't go overboard on iPhoto.)


     


    I am still worried though as Ive has absolutely no experience at what he's attempting here.  


    I won't stop being worried until we see some screen shots, which they should probably leak as soon as possible so that it isn't too much of a shock when it comes out.  

  • Reply 30 of 139
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    bobringer wrote: »
    I sure hope Jony Ive hasn't been placed in charge of Hardware Design... Software Interface... and Quality Assurance checks on both data and functionality.

    That would be one strange job description.

    I also think "hardware and software design are two separate things" is the exact opposite of what Jobs believes.  He's said as much many times when quoting Alan Key with "<span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:small;line-height:14px;">People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware."  In practice, you might be right only in that Jobs liked silos to increase the level of secrecy about what was going on inside Apple...  That may or may not have been a bad decision.  But philosophically, Jobs saw software and hardware as one thing.  In practice not so much.</span>


    <span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:small;line-height:14px;">I think Forstall's view was very different.  It appears to have been because... MINE.  iOS IS MINE AND NONE OF YOU CAN PUT YOUR NAME ON IT.  Thank god he's gone. </span>
    I'm talking about the industrial design of the products not the hardware inside. It seems like Steve's MO was to keep software UI design and industrial design separate.
  • Reply 31 of 139
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    All these people against "all skeuomorphism" are against the concept of a button, so it'll be interesting to see how they'd like to use their OS.

    I just don't want Ive to make iOS or OS X into something that looks like Microsoft's crap or Google's rip off of Microsoft's crap.
    Because getting rid of the fugly automatically means ripping off Microsoft and Google. :no:
  • Reply 32 of 139
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bobringer View Post


     


    I sure hope Jony Ive hasn't been placed in charge of Hardware Design... Software Interface... and Quality Assurance checks on both data and functionality.


     


    That would be one strange job description.


     


    I also think "hardware and software design are two separate things" is the exact opposite of what Jobs believes.  He's said as much many times when quoting Alan Key with "People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware."  In practice, you might be right only in that Jobs liked silos to increase the level of secrecy about what was going on inside Apple...  That may or may not have been a bad decision.  But philosophically, Jobs saw software and hardware as one thing.  In practice not so much.


     


    I think Forstall's view was very different.  It appears to have been because... MINE.  iOS IS MINE AND NONE OF YOU CAN PUT YOUR NAME ON IT.  Thank god he's gone. 



     


    The logical end product of 'getting rid of the silos' is the very same divisional structure that Apple has been avoiding all these years, and that everyone says is the reason for their success. 


     


    3 cheers for "silos". image

  • Reply 33 of 139
    suddenly newtonsuddenly newton Posts: 13,751member
    Quoting "Alan Key"
  • Reply 34 of 139
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,215member
    bobringer wrote: »

    Jony is responsible for design and now creating a consistent feel between the software interface and the device. The problems with Maps had nothing to do with any of this... the problems were bad data. The problems with Maps are going to be the responsibility of Federighi and Eddy Cue.

    The quote does make total sense. Wasting time on cute crap like moving shadows means less time for working on other things like code for proper wifi use and testing the Maps data. Things that, despite it 'going to be' Federighi and Cue may not have been, information Ive would know as unlike us he is there.
  • Reply 35 of 139
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    gazoobee wrote: »
    I am still worried though as Ive has absolutely no experience at what he's attempting here.  
    I won't stop being worried until we see some screen shots, which they should probably leak as soon as possible so that it isn't too much of a shock when it comes out.  
    I'm not worried because as far as we know the guys that worked under Forstall are still there and the rumors we've got indicate that Ive isn't dictating anything. He doesn't need to be a software engineer to understand how something should intuitively work.
  • Reply 36 of 139
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,215member
    rogifan wrote: »
    I took that to mean Ive wants to make sure new software isn't released with lots of bugs. If big changes are coming they need to be thoroughly tested and retested. As far as silos, from what I've read, it was Jobs who was big on that. Probably why Ive wasn't really involved in software design while Jobs was around. In Jobs mind hardware and software design were two separate things.

    I certainly hope so. That wifi bug was major. They can remove all the paper tears etc they want if they don't repeat that. And bring back some of the features missing that were there in iOS 5 like being able to see previous purchases from the stores and download them right there with a quality pick on video. And even add a view to see all purchases 'in the cloud' the way you can in iTunes on the computer (perhaps with a button in the player app so you don't have to go out to settings etc) and out the picker in there as well
  • Reply 37 of 139
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,283member
    Small amounts of texture are fine. If the notes app were to forgo all skeumorphism it would look like TextEdit.

    I bet iOS has lots of changes though.

    1) I don't think that most of the team contributed to iOS 6 - possibly this is a 2 year project.
    2) Apple is really going to showcase iCloud. Like in the desktop iTunes you can see all your purchases, well videos and Music apps can do that.
    3) I bet there will be lots of undercover changes.

    Removing Skeumorphism rather than adding it should be easy enough - in many cases it just means using standard API rather than sub classing and rolling your own. Going the other way is harder.
  • Reply 38 of 139
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,215member
    rogifan wrote: »
    I'm not worried because as far as we know the guys that worked under Forstall are still there and the rumors we've got indicate that Ive isn't dictating anything. He doesn't need to be a software engineer to understand how something should intuitively work.

    In some ways it might be better that he's not an engineer. Engineers can get enamoured of an idea and if it can be done and not consider if it should be. A non engineer is more like the core audience which for iOS in particular are not the freaks and geeks.
  • Reply 39 of 139
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    gazoobee wrote: »
    The logical end product of 'getting rid of the silos' is the very same divisional structure that Apple has been avoiding all these years, and that everyone says is the reason for their success. 

    3 cheers for "silos". :)
    This makes no sense. Cook's re-org got rid of divisional structure in favor of a functional structure - software, hardware, design and services. Since only one person has P&L responsibility (CFO) it doesn't really make sense to have different leaders based on products.
  • Reply 40 of 139
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    charlituna wrote: »
    In some ways it might be better that he's not an engineer. Engineers can get enamoured of an idea and if it can be done and not consider if it should be. A non engineer is more like the core audience which for iOS in particular are not the freaks and geeks.
    Every day on the WWW there are people chiming in about things they may not have an educational background in. I mean how many of the posters on AI, MR, etc. have a degree in software engineering or design?
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