'Dramatic changes' to Apple's iOS 7 said to include Calendar, Mail app overhauls

13567

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 139
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    ... I mean how many of the posters on AI, MR, etc. have a degree in software engineering or design?


     


    Well, we are all anonymous though so how would you know?  I have a degree in Industrial Design, but you may or may not believe me and no one seems to listen to me when I post about design issues anyway.  image

  • Reply 42 of 139
    techguy911techguy911 Posts: 267member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RichL View Post



    Looking forward to the Mail redesign. The current Mail app's search functionality is dreadful.


     


    The problem with searching is the iPhone doesn't really have the power or storage to hold your entire email account like a desktop could.  The GMail app works better because it can directly interact with Google to do server based searches and return results.  Maybe it works better with iCloud EMail since it's better integrated.  Not sure if there is a search in the IMAP protocol , but that might be an option if providers support it.

  • Reply 43 of 139
    richlrichl Posts: 2,213member
    techguy911 wrote: »
    The problem with searching is the iPhone doesn't really have the power or storage to hold your entire email account like a desktop could.  The GMail app works better because it can directly interact with Google to do server based searches and return results.  Maybe it works better with iCloud EMail since it's better integrated.  Not sure if there is a search in the IMAP protocol , but that might be an option if providers support it.

    My entire mailbox is about 8GB. Remove the attachments and its likely to be less than 300MB uncompressed. My iPhone has 64GB of storage. I've also always found iOS's database performance to be great - even with large databases.

    iOS could do e-mail search a lot better. It's not something that's easy to implement but hopefully Apple's engineers will work something out.
  • Reply 44 of 139
    noahjnoahj Posts: 4,502member
    Except they do. Stop lying.

    Nowhere has that been said.

    Enjoy your fantasy world. Rules #12, 15, & 16.

    So I guess you've never used iBooks at all, huh?
    Logic and reason don't matter, if you'll read the rest of his post.
    A bit harsh here. He gave examples of things that do not work and why he thought what he did. I did not fully agree with his assertion that they "do not work", but there are major shortcomings and differences in the iOS version of those apps that really do need to be addressed. My calendar app does not allow me to snooze a meeting reminder, I cannot tell you how many times that has messed me up when I get the reminder while I am working some very critical issue and think, 15 minutes and 40 minutes later remember that I am late for the meeting. Every windows phone I have had and every blackberry has had this feature for a long time. It is only one thing of many that the iOS version is missing, but it does not make it unusable, just not as fully featured as the other phones in that respect. I still hold on to my iPhone and continue to use it as the other phones have been terrible in every other way.

    And Yes, it has been said by many that the Post PC era is upon us...

    As for the rest, don't really care. Just thought that your post came across a bit rude and not really fair to what he actually said.
  • Reply 45 of 139
    suddenly newtonsuddenly newton Posts: 13,751member
    charlituna wrote: »
    In some ways it might be better that he's not an engineer. Engineers can get enamoured of an idea and if it can be done and not consider if it should be. A non engineer is more like the core audience which for iOS in particular are not the freaks and geeks.

    True. I think this was Microsoft's problem for many years. The wrong UI *design* decisions got made, often by engineers. Since Windows 8 "Metro" however (well, starting with Office Ribbon before that), I think their designers went completely off the rails. It's not just a question of taste, but of utility in that OS. Their apps are losing color in favor of monochrome iconography in the Metro vein, but the result is a visual mess that makes it harder, not easier to glance at the icons and tell them apart, so I would place blame for that solely at the feet of designers Microsoft used. Not saying engineers would have made things better in that case, simply pointing out that end user experience was less important to them than stamping out a consistent design language, and that consistency has driven Windows 8 UI off a usability cliff, in my opinion. I hate it. The last thing I want Apple to do is "go Metro."
  • Reply 46 of 139
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,510member


    Having the notification pane accessible with a swipe from the side makes much more sense imo. The implementation on the BB10 is very good. I see Apple doing the same with a pane coming from the right as in OSX. Application switching might be done via a swipe from the left (like in Ubuntu mobile). Top swipe might be used for settings. 


    Whatever happens, I'm sure it'll look great. Can't wait.

  • Reply 47 of 139
    stelligentstelligent Posts: 2,680member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    Not to pick on you particularly, but most folks are really not clear on what skeuomorphism actually is.  skeuomorphism *isn't* just shading or "3D" effects, it only applies to actual representations of real world objects.  It seems that when most people on this thread say skeuomorphism, they are meaning "anything that isn't totally flat" and that's just not right.  


     



    Good point, by and large.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    I am still worried though as Ive has absolutely no experience at what he's attempting here.  


    I won't stop being worried until we see some screen shots, which they should probably leak as soon as possible so that it isn't too much of a shock when it comes out.  


     



    I have a similar concern too. But, we would have had this concern, if, many years ago, we had learned that Steve Jobs was personally involved in the UI design of the first Mac. He had even less formal background than what Jony Ive has. Lest we forget, Jobs also made Ive and his team go back to the drawing board to redesign the first iPhone because he "just didn't love it". Jony Ive may not be the second coming of Steve Jobs. But he doesn't have to be.


     


    Lookm we don't have a choice but to wait. If the rumor mill is right, we will be impressed.


     


    On a different note, I don't see anyone criticizing the article for rigorous citation of truly reliable sources. Hmmm ... double standard? Nah ... this place is a model of rigorous debate. Who am I to question anything?

  • Reply 48 of 139
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeilM View Post



    There's a difference between gratuitous skeuomorphism (damn but that's a hard word to type!), for instance the truly nasty faux leather Address Book in recent OS X versions, and the discreet depiction of real life elements to give clues to a program's function. In recent years Apple has gone really overboard with the nasty stuff, and I'm greatly looking forward to the prospect of a sleeker Jony Ive version.


     


    That word is too complicated and I don't like to use it.


    Let's just say that there are textures that try to imitate the physical world and make sense from a user point of view. They might bring depth and help separate windows, and in general they highlight elements so that the user can easily find what is useful for him. Such textures are designed to be pleasing obviously and their creators have lots of possibilities to choose from to make them.


     


    The problem is when those textures are too much inspired by the physical world or when textures are used too much for esthetic use only.


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MoXoM View Post



    I guess I'm the only person who likes the skeuomorphic design! I feel it adds character and worth to the OS. I don't mind it being toned down slightly but not removed all together just for the sake of it.



    This seems to be the latest trend at the moment. I hope Apple have something special up their sleeve.



    I'd rather more time was spent on adding more functionality to the OS and Apps.



    Can't wait to see what they've been up to. Excited and nervous at the same time...


     


    Of course they are going to add functionality of those apps.


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    Not to pick on you particularly, but most folks are really not clear on what skeuomorphism actually is.  skeuomorphism *isn't* just shading or "3D" effects, it only applies to actual representations of real world objects.  It seems that when most people on this thread say skeuomorphism, they are meaning "anything that isn't totally flat" and that's just not right.  


     


    So there are really two issues here.  "Skeuomorphism" and "Flatness."  It gets a bit fuzzier when you consider that many apps are not themselves skeuomorphic but contain skeuomorphic "elements."  For instance the Camera app is not skeuomorphic, but the shutter it uses is.  Pages and Numbers are similarly not skeuomorphic, but they have a few textures that could be swapped out for less realistic ones.  Other apps have skeuomorphic "splash screens" like Game Centre, but are otherwise not really skeuomorphic at all.  


     


    I would argue that the real list of "skeuomorphic" (built-in) Apps goes like this:


     


    Notes, iBooks, Contacts, Calendar, Newstand, iPhoto, Garage Band


     


    I would say that "Notes" is by far the most egregious (witness the plethora of Notes replacements in the store), "Calendar" is next, followed by iBooks and Newstand which have those unfortunate wooden shelves and iPhoto, which doubles down on the situation by using those ugly plastic "photo albums" on glass shelves.  (insert sounds of retching here)


     


    Funnily enough though, the most skeuomorphic app of all, Garage Band, is brilliant, attractive and would be completely ruined if the skeuomorphic elements were removed.  The paintbrushes in iPhoto are likely in the same situation in that they are also skeuomorphic, but also quite brilliant and useful to boot. 


     


    So it seems to me that as long as they leave the "3D" stuff alone, or the stuff that is merely 3D-ish looking and focus only on the skeuomorphism it's actually a quick fix for most apps and that the fix will please most people and not remove any functionality.  (assuming they leave Garage Band alone and don't go overboard on iPhoto.)


     


    I am still worried though as Ive has absolutely no experience at what he's attempting here.  


    I won't stop being worried until we see some screen shots, which they should probably leak as soon as possible so that it isn't too much of a shock when it comes out.  



     


    Agree about the confusion around the word skeuostuff.


    I actually like the design of iPhoto. When editing photos it's pretty powerful... only problem is that iOS makes pictures smaller when importing them.
  • Reply 49 of 139
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,752member
    I don't care about skeuomorphism. If that's is the only changes the Ive is pushing, then Apple has problems. Contacts, calendar, mail do not work and does not have the functionality of OS X applications. Calendars, only two alerts, no custom repeats. Contacts: No ability to search within groups, no ability to move contacts into groups, or multiple groups. Mail: No rules.
    This is a very serious problem which many dismiss. Further some obvious features seem to have missed several iOS updates. It is almost like some of the iOS apps are frozen in time.

    As for skeuomorphism I really can't see that being a major factor in the delay of iOS if the OS is even being delayed. In many cases you just replace some image files and move on. I'm really hoping that they are correcting the bigger issues associated with iOS apps.
    Especially because the need for a laptop is supposed to no longer be required, iOS 7 apps need all the functionality that would be expected in a laptop version. Nothing short of full functionality is acceptable.
    Well I'm flexible here, but so many iOS come up short that frustration with them can be significant. I run into this problem weekly or more having to start up the laptop to address issues that can't be addressed in the native iOS apps.
    Then, additional functionality is apps in iOS 7 need to be able to share data between apps. Siloing of apps has significant downsides.
    I'm not sure what the final solution here will be. Right now the way that iOS handles user data fies just sucks. Add in problems with iCloud and you have real issues.

    As a side note the API should be supplying developers with a standardized fle browser. Even if that file browser is limited to a common area and the apps internal data store.
    Then iBook and ePub. Taking notes and organizing notes on reading materials is a needed function. This can be done either by enhancing iBook or by allowing other apps to supplement iBooks, but it is required for books which are to be digested, not just tasted. The ePub and Apple's implementation needs to support math notation fully; Kindle is better at this point.

    Well I look at this as a work in progress.
  • Reply 50 of 139
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,752member
    Did somebody get up on the wrong side of the bed?
    Except they do. Stop lying.
    Bull crap! IOS lag their desktop counterparts in features often significantly. To argue otherwise just indicates that your use of those apps is trivial at best.
    Nowhere has that been said.

    Enjoy your fantasy world. Rules #12, 15, & 16.

    So I guess you've never used iBooks at all, huh?
    Logic and reason don't matter, if you'll read the rest of his post.
    Arguing against the obvious is hardly a sign that one grasps logic and reason. I regularly have to resort to my Mac to deal with documents that can't be handled in the way I want to on my iPad. This directly due to features that have been missing for ages. Sadly some of the new Mac counterpart apps, to iOS apps, are even more functional.

    Frankly I have to wonder if you even make use of the iOS apps beyond the most trivial interaction.
  • Reply 51 of 139
    jimbo123jimbo123 Posts: 153member
    Do us proud Jony. Lets reboot iOS
  • Reply 52 of 139
    techguy911techguy911 Posts: 267member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post



    Did somebody get up on the wrong side of the bed?

    Bull crap! IOS lag their desktop counterparts in features often significantly. To argue otherwise just indicates that your use of those apps is trivial at best.

    Arguing against the obvious is hardly a sign that one grasps logic and reason. I regularly have to resort to my Mac to deal with documents that can't be handled in the way I want to on my iPad. This directly due to features that have been missing for ages. Sadly some of the new Mac counterpart apps, to iOS apps, are even more functional.



    Frankly I have to wonder if you even make use of the iOS apps beyond the most trivial interaction.


     


    It's amazing how far some people here have their head buried in the sand right?  Apple makes some amazing products, but nothing is 100% perfect.  There shouldn't be anything wrong with us discussing some shortcomings and mistakes without being bashed.  Now I agree the line between good criticism, complaining, and trolling is not always clear, but nearly everything negative gets called trolling. There's ALWAYS room for improvement in software and products.

  • Reply 53 of 139
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,752member
    Sometimes it works well and sometimes it is a distraction. I think the big mistake in the past was the focus on skeuomorphic design at the expense of the functionality users expect. IOS apps have not been updated significantly functionality wise in awhile now. This perhaps is the single greatest issue iOS faces when compared to counter part functionality on Mac OS.
    moxom wrote: »
    I guess I'm the only person who likes the skeuomorphic design! I feel it adds character and worth to the OS. I don't mind it being toned down slightly but not removed all together just for the sake of it.

    This seems to be the latest trend at the moment. I hope Apple have something special up their sleeve.

    I'd rather more time was spent on adding more functionality to the OS and Apps.
    Bingo! My fear is that we will get another round of UI tweaks and see little effort put into app parity across both platforms. This applies to both the built in apps and things like iWork.
    Can't wait to see what they've been up to. Excited and nervous at the same time...

    Why would you be nervous? It is a computing platform nothing more.
  • Reply 54 of 139
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,752member
    ireland wrote: »
    Yeah it doesn't really work.

    Well I can't say Mail search doesn't work because I've been using it on and off. However this is just one example of severely limited features with respect to Mac OS apps.

    In some apps this might have been a problem in early iOS devices due to the lack of RAM. Today that is less of a problem. Honestly iOS needs to tart to reflect modern hardware capability where there is plenty of RAM for most apps.

    I say most apps because I don't think Safari will ever be happy with 1GB of RAM. The point is there is little in the way of excuses anymore when you consider the capability of modern iOS hardware. Some of the iOS supplied apps haven't seen significant updates in ages.
  • Reply 55 of 139
    v5vv5v Posts: 1,357member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    [...] I am still worried though as Ive has absolutely no experience at what he's attempting here.



     


    Well, he's faster than speeding locomotive and is able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, so I'm sure he can handle this, too.


     


    Oh wait, that's Superman...


     


    Spend enough time around here and you start confusing the two.


     


    image

  • Reply 56 of 139
    jlanddjlandd Posts: 873member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Except they do. Stop lying.


     



     


    The current choices when needing to duplicate discrete, non-repeating events are terrible.    The way alert time options are written in stone are a problem (nothing between 2 hours and 24, or between 1 and 2 hours?).  


     


    And the mail searching for me gets a C+.  I often log on to my Verizon/Yahoo account online to find all of the results the Mail app says don't exist.

  • Reply 57 of 139
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    All these people against "all skeuomorphism" are against the concept of a button



     


    Wow, how astonishingly incorrect. You don't truly understand what skeuomorphism is.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    I just don't want Ive to make iOS or OS X into something that looks like Microsoft's crap or Google's rip off of Microsoft's crap.



     


    That seems fairly unlikely.

  • Reply 58 of 139
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,752member
    techguy911 wrote: »
    It's amazing how far some people here have their head buried in the sand right?  Apple makes some amazing products, but nothing is 100% perfect.
    Nothing is perfect that is true. At times with iOS it is like you are getting 50% though. I'm particularly frustrated by the fact that we have been getting a lot of UI tweaks to the included apps over the last few years at the expense of functionality. Especially functionality in comparison to the Mac counterparts.

     There shouldn't be anything wrong with us discussing some shortcomings and mistakes without being bashed.
    It was the way he was bashed that I found frustrating. I mean really the shortcomings with respect to iOS apps have been with us for awhile now. I can understand that in the context of some of the first iterations of the hardware and software but that isn't an issue now.

    It is extremely frustrating when you look at notes on Mac OS, which is a new app there, and realize that it has more features and a better interface than the long standing iOS app it mirrors.
     Now I agree the line between good criticism, complaining, and trolling is not always clear, but nearly everything negative gets called trolling. There's ALWAYS room for improvement in software and products.

    At some point it might not be worth the effort to improve the software, calculator apps come to mind here. On iOS though almost everything needs a boost. When a user has to resort to his Mac to get contacts to sort right Apple has issues.
  • Reply 59 of 139
    v5vv5v Posts: 1,357member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post



    [...] Their apps are losing color in favor of monochrome iconography in the Metro vein, but the result is a visual mess that makes it harder, not easier to glance at the icons and tell them apart, so I would place blame for that solely at the feet of designers Microsoft used.


     


    You mean like this?


     


     



     


     


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post



    [...]  so I would place blame for that solely at the feet of designers Microsoft used.


     


    Nah, they're just doing what they've always done -- copy Apple.


     


    I agree that colored icons matter. A lot. When Apple went to the current look, my work slowed down significantly. I don't know if it's a common human trait or if the "color-cued" set like me are a minority, but I suspect it's the former.

  • Reply 60 of 139
    stelligentstelligent Posts: 2,680member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    All these people against "all skeuomorphism" are against the concept of a button


     



    Wow, how astonishingly incorrect. You don't truly understand what skeuomorphism is.


     



    "Astonishingly" incorrect? A bit over the top, kind of like his statement itself?

Sign In or Register to comment.