I don't want any of fucking integrated video card from Intel! They're fucking sucks. I'd rather use Nvidia or AMD's ATI. Any of Mac devices with integrated Intel video card is so FUCKED!
Both is a good solution as a power saver when on battery and not using FCPro or Photoshop. So by all means keep improving the integrated performance but for MBPs retain the powerful additional graphics. One day I'm sure there will be an all in one solution but for now dual is the best way to go.
When you need the GPU performance, it'll run really well and when you don't, it'll save power vs the last-gen.
The performance gains looks to be in line with what they have been saying but we'll only know for sure when the actual processors arrive - some of the 06 scores look a bit low. The desktop ones are much better than I expected. The model listed as 65W has the 5200 GPU and the one at 84W has the 4600. It seems like they'd be better off not bothering with the 84W model but they'll probably sell it cheaper.
I wouldn't be surprised if they use IGPs in the entry iMacs and it might let them get the prices back down to where they were before.
The Air is the only Mac product that uses Intel integrated graphics, correct?
No, all MacBook Pros and the Mac Mini.
Originally Posted by jusephe
Integrated graphics isn't very useful…
Did you read anything about these?
…even through the 3X gain is nice, it's still not for professional gaming.
1. There is no such thing as "professional gaming." You don't know what you're talking about.
2. The laptop Haswell iGPU is equivalent to a GeForce 650.
I think a solution for Apple is to use an over clocked 16 core G6630 Rouge GPU as standalone discrete graphic.
Why, when this is better in every way?
Originally Posted by TexDeafy
I don't want any of fucking integrated video card from Intel! They're fucking sucks. I'd rather use Nvidia or AMD's ATI. Any of Mac devices with integrated Intel video card is so FUCKED!
Not interested in more performance for the MB Air. Need a better battery
A betters battery certainly wouldn't hurt. However I currently wouldn't consider an AIR at all due to the terrible processor and GPU performance. It is getting real close to the point where Haswell might make a Mini attractive to me. It all depends upon the exact configuration. All I can say is " Go for it Apple".
When you need the GPU performance, it'll run really well and when you don't, it'll save power vs the last-gen.
We hope. In any event Haswell in the AIRs, could really supercharge these models. That is if Apple selects the right chips. No matter what Intel does, Apple still needs to execute a fresh design the leverage the right chip.
The performance gains looks to be in line with what they have been saying but we'll only know for sure when the actual processors arrive - some of the 06 scores look a bit low. The desktop ones are much better than I expected. The model listed as 65W has the 5200 GPU and the one at 84W has the 4600. It seems like they'd be better off not bothering with the 84W model but they'll probably sell it cheaper.
Dreaming of XMac right now. That 65 watt variant would be ideal for the low end model.
I wouldn't be surprised if they use IGPs in the entry iMacs and it might let them get the prices back down to where they were before.
I suspect the big problem with iMac pricing is everything but the processor.
But isn't triple the performance of nothing still nothing?
Eventually when you multiply crap it becomes better than the best not-crap.
I was the first to denounce iGPUs… back in the day. But if this actually performs how Intel is saying it will (both internally and externally), then it's finally a contender for meaningful GPU work on a budget ("budget" meaning "you actually don't have to buy anything extra to get performance out of it").
Originally Posted by Zozman
Really? man i hope so, GeForce GT 650M? as in the same card that the 15 rMBP uses & current alienware gaming laptops?.
Marvin's quite confident in that, from what he has seen, and I know a guy who works at Intel in the "making the chips that will be released five years from now" department (there's probably a classier name for it) who says the same thing about Haswell.
sounds super unlikely, i wouldn't argue if its the case, it would mean that discreet GPUs in laptops days are over & would be redundant.
That's part of the reason why Haswell is splitting up iGPU power between desktops and laptops. The desktop Haswell chips have a worse iGPU because Intel figures you'll have a dedicated card there. The laptop chips have a MUCH better iGPU because, hey, the more power that can be shoehorned in without having to lose battery life (and gain heat) on a dedicated chip the better.
We hope. In any event Haswell in the AIRs, could really supercharge these models. That is if Apple selects the right chips. No matter what Intel does, Apple still needs to execute a fresh design the leverage the right chip.
Despite the CPU performance of the current MBAs being on par with MBPs from not too many years ago I have doubts that you'd accept anything Apple does in this category. You just said the current CPUs are terrible; not simply too slow for your needs, but terrible. So how can adding another 17W TDP CULV into the MBAs be the "right chips" when you always seem to want the fastest chips possible as your starting point? You aren't going to get a 45W Haswell chip in the MBA... EVER!
And that's all before we get to the GPU, soldered RAM, lack of expansion ports, and smaller space for a large SSD card. I simply find it hard to see how anyone that dreams of the elusive Xmac would be happy with Apple's goals for the MBA.
Really? man i hope so, GeForce GT 650M? as in the same card that the 15 rMBP uses & current alienware gaming laptops?.
It probably won't even come close in sustained performance.
sounds super unlikely, i wouldn't argue if its the case, it would mean that discreet GPUs in laptops days are over & would be redundant.
11
That will happen some time in the future but I'm not certain it will happen in the next couple of years. For one thing both AMD and Intel run into bandwidth problems to main memory on their APUs. This means that implementation of the RAM array can adversely impact the GPU component. I wouldn't be surprised at to find routinely
That's part of the reason why Haswell is splitting up iGPU power between desktops and laptops. The desktop Haswell chips have a worse iGPU because Intel figures you'll have a dedicated card there. The laptop chips have a MUCH better iGPU because, hey, the more power that can be shoehorned in without having to lose battery life (and gain heat) on a dedicated chip the better.
I hope it turns out this way.
I'm a little skeptical of what the companies say about the benchmarks & graphic output of their chips.
ivy-bridge & HD 4000 promised massive GPU gains, benchmarks after release only showed a few percent gains, like most things in tech these days its an evolution not a revolution, no complains.
if my mac mini dies, a haswell based mac mini would be on bought so fast!.
Integrated graphics isn't very usefull, but apple must use because of space and energy compustion and even through the 3X gain is nice, it's still not for professional gaming.
I doubt that the number of professional gamers in the world is very large.
Comments
Both is a good solution as a power saver when on battery and not using FCPro or Photoshop. So by all means keep improving the integrated performance but for MBPs retain the powerful additional graphics. One day I'm sure there will be an all in one solution but for now dual is the best way to go.
The way they designed this one is intended to improve battery life. They put in more cores but underclocked them:
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/09/07/haswell-gt3-uses-shaders-to-save-power/
When you need the GPU performance, it'll run really well and when you don't, it'll save power vs the last-gen.
The performance gains looks to be in line with what they have been saying but we'll only know for sure when the actual processors arrive - some of the 06 scores look a bit low. The desktop ones are much better than I expected. The model listed as 65W has the 5200 GPU and the one at 84W has the 4600. It seems like they'd be better off not bothering with the 84W model but they'll probably sell it cheaper.
I wouldn't be surprised if they use IGPs in the entry iMacs and it might let them get the prices back down to where they were before.
Originally Posted by Unicron
The Air is the only Mac product that uses Intel integrated graphics, correct?
No, all MacBook Pros and the Mac Mini.
Originally Posted by jusephe
Integrated graphics isn't very useful…
Did you read anything about these?
…even through the 3X gain is nice, it's still not for professional gaming.
1. There is no such thing as "professional gaming." You don't know what you're talking about.
2. The laptop Haswell iGPU is equivalent to a GeForce 650.
I think a solution for Apple is to use an over clocked 16 core G6630 Rouge GPU as standalone discrete graphic.
Why, when this is better in every way?
Originally Posted by TexDeafy
I don't want any of fucking integrated video card from Intel! They're fucking sucks. I'd rather use Nvidia or AMD's ATI. Any of Mac devices with integrated Intel video card is so FUCKED!
So I take it you didn't bother reading the story.
A betters battery certainly wouldn't hurt. However I currently wouldn't consider an AIR at all due to the terrible processor and GPU performance. It is getting real close to the point where Haswell might make a Mini attractive to me. It all depends upon the exact configuration. All I can say is " Go for it Apple".
All Mac notebooks use integrated graphics, but the 15" MBP also comes with a discrete GPU.
I suspect the big problem with iMac pricing is everything but the processor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
2. The laptop Haswell iGPU is equivalent to a GeForce 650.
Really? man i hope so, GeForce GT 650M? as in the same card that the 15 rMBP uses & current alienware gaming laptops?.
sounds super unlikely, i wouldn't argue if its the case, it would mean that discreet GPUs in laptops days are over & would be redundant.
Don't they already do that with the education iMac?
These aren't reasonable comments.
Originally Posted by msantti
But isn't triple the performance of nothing still nothing?
Eventually when you multiply crap it becomes better than the best not-crap.
I was the first to denounce iGPUs… back in the day. But if this actually performs how Intel is saying it will (both internally and externally), then it's finally a contender for meaningful GPU work on a budget ("budget" meaning "you actually don't have to buy anything extra to get performance out of it").
Originally Posted by Zozman
Really? man i hope so, GeForce GT 650M? as in the same card that the 15 rMBP uses & current alienware gaming laptops?.
Marvin's quite confident in that, from what he has seen, and I know a guy who works at Intel in the "making the chips that will be released five years from now" department (there's probably a classier name for it) who says the same thing about Haswell.
sounds super unlikely, i wouldn't argue if its the case, it would mean that discreet GPUs in laptops days are over & would be redundant.
That's part of the reason why Haswell is splitting up iGPU power between desktops and laptops. The desktop Haswell chips have a worse iGPU because Intel figures you'll have a dedicated card there. The laptop chips have a MUCH better iGPU because, hey, the more power that can be shoehorned in without having to lose battery life (and gain heat) on a dedicated chip the better.
Despite the CPU performance of the current MBAs being on par with MBPs from not too many years ago I have doubts that you'd accept anything Apple does in this category. You just said the current CPUs are terrible; not simply too slow for your needs, but terrible. So how can adding another 17W TDP CULV into the MBAs be the "right chips" when you always seem to want the fastest chips possible as your starting point? You aren't going to get a 45W Haswell chip in the MBA... EVER!
And that's all before we get to the GPU, soldered RAM, lack of expansion ports, and smaller space for a large SSD card. I simply find it hard to see how anyone that dreams of the elusive Xmac would be happy with Apple's goals for the MBA.
It probably won't even come close in sustained performance. 11
That will happen some time in the future but I'm not certain it will happen in the next couple of years. For one thing both AMD and Intel run into bandwidth problems to main memory on their APUs. This means that implementation of the RAM array can adversely impact the GPU component. I wouldn't be surprised at to find routinely
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
That's part of the reason why Haswell is splitting up iGPU power between desktops and laptops. The desktop Haswell chips have a worse iGPU because Intel figures you'll have a dedicated card there. The laptop chips have a MUCH better iGPU because, hey, the more power that can be shoehorned in without having to lose battery life (and gain heat) on a dedicated chip the better.
I hope it turns out this way.
I'm a little skeptical of what the companies say about the benchmarks & graphic output of their chips.
ivy-bridge & HD 4000 promised massive GPU gains, benchmarks after release only showed a few percent gains, like most things in tech these days its an evolution not a revolution, no complains.
if my mac mini dies, a haswell based mac mini would be on bought so fast!.
Yah there is. They even have their own organization. MLG
Majorleaguegaming.com. These guys get paid to play. A buddy of mine gets flown to these events and gets paid. Not much though. But it exists.
Blah
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusephe
Integrated graphics isn't very usefull, but apple must use because of space and energy compustion and even through the 3X gain is nice, it's still not for professional gaming.
I doubt that the number of professional gamers in the world is very large.
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti
Apple using integrated graphics in the 13" Retina Pro is criminal.
My 13" MBP drives the 27" Cinema Display very well. I'm not sure how it could be better.
Originally Posted by emig647
Majorleaguegaming.com. These guys get paid to play. A buddy of mine gets flown to these events and gets paid. Not much though. But it exists.
This seems ludicrous.