I thought IGP's were getting heterogeneous and independent so they wouldn't bother RAM or CPU's for Bandwidth...
Not at all. Heterogenous mean in effect executing two different instructions streams from memory and doing so in a way that both processors (in this case GPU & CPU) have equal access to that memory. A homogenous system is one that has multiple processors but which run a common instruction set.
In some cases a heterogeneous system can be more efficient at using memory because there is less need to copy data and instruction streams around. Instead of copying a bit of data to the correct area for a GPU to process, the CPU can simply pass a handle to the data for the GPU to handle directly. Note that you need an operating system that can support this.
It's better because GPU's use Parallel Processing and CPU's just follow instructions one by one per core. It's all in GCN Tech in AMD's latest APU's and Nvidia is coming up with some stuff that's similar on their systems...
Support for heterogeneous systems is growing in chip sets and GPUs. However instant hardware support does not imply that it can in any way be sued by current drivers and OS code. In the ideal situation the GPY would have the same access to memory as the CPU has, this is what AMD is striving for. However the OS has to be extended to understand how to deal with pages of memory that another processor may be accessing.
I don't understand why XEON's are better than Ivy Bridge or Haswell's. Could you please explain it to me?
In some case they are the same chips just marketed differently or slightly extended. for example XEON chips might support ECC RAM where desktop chip won't. At one time Intel removed or disabled the GPU but now they intend to leave the GPU enable on some chips as a server computational resource or to support minimal video.
In other cases the chips actually differ significantly from desktop chips If you want to know how get on Intels web site and down load some technical info. improvements can range anywhere from reliability enhancements to communications channels
Other than having 12 cores.
That is significant in and of itself.
And I don't think many people need more than 32GB of RAM.
Actually many Mac Pro users do need the extra RAM. in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they extend mac OS this year to address a lot more RAM. You can think all you want but that doesn't make your thought processes right. Think about it, many think our current president is a good one, even when the overwhelming evidence says otherwise. So just because you think something, consider why the other guy may see things in a vastly different way. Another way to look at this is that minimal memory systems will likely hit 8GB soon on Apple hardware, that is a bit shocking if you have been in this industry a long time. I know from experience that 2GB is no longer enough to run Mac OS smoothly and even that is a surprise when many of the machines I owned int he pass barely had 256MB or RAM. In the end a "PRO" computer needs a lot of RAM, ideally configurable by the user.
Note that I said "ideally configurable" above, that is something that is an issue today. Sometime in the future it will be a requirement to solder the RAM into the motherboard to achieve the transfer rates that are possible with coming technologies. At that point it is even more important that computers come with a suitable amount of RAM pre installed. Remember too this is the WWDC thread, as such people with bleeding edge interests will gravitate to it. These people by nature are forward looking, the computers they run today will likely be mainstream in two to four years
The minimum right now is 4GB but most people go with 8GB and they're dual channeled. I would like to see more Single Channel RAM in Macs, because they cycle information faster. Another thing is the latency of RAM, Apple does not the have best speeds in the field.
What do you mean by this: "cycle information faster"? You do realize why the industry went to dual, triple and then quad channel memory interfaces right?
Their monitors are way behind the 1 ms respond time threshold and the contrast ratio is not so great on them. They're bright and useful for normal tasks but for watching content and gaming I really noticed a lot of ghosting and artifacts not moving as they should.
I'm sure you did!
in any event, being able to choose a monitor I prefer is one of the reason I've advocated for the XMAc concept. While I don't dismiss Apple monitors the way you do they are far less than perfect for the many possible uses for a Mac out there.
Wouldn't it be better if Apple just released a mid tower Mac Pro or a G6 Cube like we've talked about before?
No! I;ve never seen the XMac as a mid tower design. AS for G6 cube what in the hell are you talking about? There has never been a G6 cube.
Considering nobody water-cools Macs and DDR4 Ram won't be here until the Fall. Plus Mac OS X is in not many computers in the world right now due to the fact that Apple Computers are expensive as hell... Plus Windows 7 is still going strong even after Windows 8 was released. Not many people say "Today I'm going to install an operating system on my computer." OS's should update themselves and then ask you if you want to keep the update or revert to the previous way. No reason to pay 80 dollars for Windows 8 and loose everything trying to upgrade either.
You are rambling here about something but I have no idea what. As far as Mac OS devices go Apple has some pretty good deals. The AIRs for example are very competitive.
No wonder their biggest markets are the iPhone and iPad.
They hit the market with a hardware / software suite that blew everything out of the water. That is how you win in business.
Truth Apple did buy a memory making company last year so who knows what they're doing with them.
Your whole post is filled with garbage. The only memory related company they bought last year was ANOBIT which by the way has never made memory. Anobit specialized in technologies for controlling flash. As to what they are doing with them I have some good guesses, one of them is that it has something to do with flash.
Terabyte SSD's for Mac Pro's or soldered memory are coming.
Nice graphic! I should have off that day so maybe I can watch without interruption. I got my WWDC app so we will see how that works out.
I honestly think WWDC will be huge this year. Lots of new products and I'm expecting big things for both iOS and Mac OS. Frankly I'm not that much of a developer but I'd love to go to WWDC one year just to take it all in and expand my mind a bit. There are a lot of unannounced sessions this year which is likely for new technologies but frankly I'd be just as interested in the LLVM and XCode sessions.
So, shall we say Technological Preview of the All-New Extra-Shiny Mac Pro at WWDC MMXIII, shipping of same sometime in September…?
Dual Xeon E7 Haswell octo-core CPUs
I understand the implied sarcasm, but I don't think E7 came up anywhere. Those are basically exclusive to big iron servers. Sandy Bridge EP 26xx cpus went as high as 8 cores. I suspect that will be a more common core count with the ivy versions. The haswell models being released cap at 4. On board raid controllers aren't unheard of in other workstations. Most aren't appropriate for anything that uses parity distribution, but in lighter data cases it's easier and often cheaper to just have some kind of DAS solution with hourly backups compared to low end raid 5 (or 3 if anyone still uses that somewhere in the world).
But most of these are impossible. They're either multiples in one or way too specific. Great ideas, though. How about this?
iRadio
AirDrop for iOS
Apple TV API
Touchscreen anything
New MacBook (family)
Major iOS redesign
Gushing over ecosystem/store/
WWDC success
More than 4 demos
802.11ac rollout (either in Macs or via an AirPort family update)
New iMacs
More than six instances of the word 'phenomenal'
A frownsmile
Free Space
New Mac Pro
Wholly new product
New Mac Mini
Redesigned Cinema Display
Musician outro
iOS 7/10.9 beta available during WWDC
TV ad for new product
Tabbed Finder
Craig Federighi on stage
Mac(s) made in USA
Something ships "Today!"
Siri on OS X
Well it's a lot better than mine, so I would say this is what I'll use but I don't know what is a frownsmile is... and I don't think there will be new iMacs unless it's a revision to the Wifi AC... otherwise great man! I love this board.
Well it's a lot better than mine, so I would say this is what I'll use but I don't know what is a frownsmile is... and I don't think there will be new iMacs unless it's a revision to the Wifi AC... otherwise great man! I love this board.
The "Frownsmile" square had me doubled over in laughter. Best game of Bingo ever!
Comments
In some cases a heterogeneous system can be more efficient at using memory because there is less need to copy data and instruction streams around. Instead of copying a bit of data to the correct area for a GPU to process, the CPU can simply pass a handle to the data for the GPU to handle directly. Note that you need an operating system that can support this. Support for heterogeneous systems is growing in chip sets and GPUs. However instant hardware support does not imply that it can in any way be sued by current drivers and OS code. In the ideal situation the GPY would have the same access to memory as the CPU has, this is what AMD is striving for. However the OS has to be extended to understand how to deal with pages of memory that another processor may be accessing. In some case they are the same chips just marketed differently or slightly extended. for example XEON chips might support ECC RAM where desktop chip won't. At one time Intel removed or disabled the GPU but now they intend to leave the GPU enable on some chips as a server computational resource or to support minimal video.
In other cases the chips actually differ significantly from desktop chips If you want to know how get on Intels web site and down load some technical info. improvements can range anywhere from reliability enhancements to communications channels That is significant in and of itself. Actually many Mac Pro users do need the extra RAM. in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they extend mac OS this year to address a lot more RAM. You can think all you want but that doesn't make your thought processes right. Think about it, many think our current president is a good one, even when the overwhelming evidence says otherwise. So just because you think something, consider why the other guy may see things in a vastly different way. Another way to look at this is that minimal memory systems will likely hit 8GB soon on Apple hardware, that is a bit shocking if you have been in this industry a long time. I know from experience that 2GB is no longer enough to run Mac OS smoothly and even that is a surprise when many of the machines I owned int he pass barely had 256MB or RAM. In the end a "PRO" computer needs a lot of RAM, ideally configurable by the user.
Note that I said "ideally configurable" above, that is something that is an issue today. Sometime in the future it will be a requirement to solder the RAM into the motherboard to achieve the transfer rates that are possible with coming technologies. At that point it is even more important that computers come with a suitable amount of RAM pre installed. Remember too this is the WWDC thread, as such people with bleeding edge interests will gravitate to it. These people by nature are forward looking, the computers they run today will likely be mainstream in two to four years What do you mean by this: "cycle information faster"? You do realize why the industry went to dual, triple and then quad channel memory interfaces right? I'm sure you did!
in any event, being able to choose a monitor I prefer is one of the reason I've advocated for the XMAc concept. While I don't dismiss Apple monitors the way you do they are far less than perfect for the many possible uses for a Mac out there. No! I;ve never seen the XMac as a mid tower design. AS for G6 cube what in the hell are you talking about? There has never been a G6 cube. You are rambling here about something but I have no idea what. As far as Mac OS devices go Apple has some pretty good deals. The AIRs for example are very competitive. They hit the market with a hardware / software suite that blew everything out of the water. That is how you win in business. Your whole post is filled with garbage. The only memory related company they bought last year was ANOBIT which by the way has never made memory. Anobit specialized in technologies for controlling flash. As to what they are doing with them I have some good guesses, one of them is that it has something to do with flash. The problem of course is keeping such affordable.
@Wizard You're right. You win. I loose because that was a mouthful.
I honestly think WWDC will be huge this year. Lots of new products and I'm expecting big things for both iOS and Mac OS. Frankly I'm not that much of a developer but I'd love to go to WWDC one year just to take it all in and expand my mind a bit. There are a lot of unannounced sessions this year which is likely for new technologies but frankly I'd be just as interested in the LLVM and XCode sessions.
2:00am for me on Tuesday morning. To watch or not to watch, that is the question.
As the years go by it is getting increasingly difficult...
So, shall we say Technological Preview of the All-New Extra-Shiny Mac Pro at WWDC MMXIII, shipping of same sometime in September…?
Dual Xeon E7 Haswell octo-core CPUs
256GB DDR4 ECC RAM
SuperBluRayDrive
Onboard hardware RAID controller
(4) 5TB HDDs
Bootable Fusion-io ioFX 1.6TB SSD PCIe card
nVidia Quadro K6000 GPU PCIe card
nVidia Tesla K20 GPU co-processor PCIe card
Intel Xeon Phi CPU co-processor PCIe card
USB 3
ThunderBolt 2
BlueTooth
Gigabit WiFi
1000BaseT Ethernet
31" 4K/UltraHD ThunderBolt 2 Cinema Display
Should be, what…? No more than around 35 grand…!?! ;^p
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin
So, shall we say Technological Preview of the All-New Extra-Shiny Mac Pro at WWDC MMXIII, shipping of same sometime in September…?
Dual Xeon E7 Haswell octo-core CPUs
I understand the implied sarcasm, but I don't think E7 came up anywhere. Those are basically exclusive to big iron servers. Sandy Bridge EP 26xx cpus went as high as 8 cores. I suspect that will be a more common core count with the ivy versions. The haswell models being released cap at 4. On board raid controllers aren't unheard of in other workstations. Most aren't appropriate for anything that uses parity distribution, but in lighter data cases it's easier and often cheaper to just have some kind of DAS solution with hourly backups compared to low end raid 5 (or 3 if anyone still uses that somewhere in the world).
BIG DEAL!
some of the announcements we are expecting at wwdc2013 include the iOS7 release, updates on new iPhone and iPad, iRadio etc.
Originally Posted by darkdefender
Hey… where's the keynote bingo? I haven't seen one for a few years…
I thought the same thing when I saw that image.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
I thought the same thing when I saw that image.
iRadio Service on iOS coming, possible on update to iTunes or OS X as well
AirDrop for iOS, New Flat Colorful icon UI, Weather icon displays correct temperature
Apple TV - 13 Million Users, New App Store API for Apple TV, Apple TV App for iPad with guide, watch later feed
Revolutionary , new keyboard or magic mouse with lithium rechargeable battery
Haswell, 1 TB SSD, New Facetime Eyesight on Macbook
New Mac, iPad Mini (spec bump), iPhone with gold plated aluminum, Multitouch keyboard Macbook
Over 500 million Apple accounts, in x amount of countries, another strong quarter, great upcoming products this fall
We're really excited, And here’s… to show a demo
Wifi AC on new Macs or devices (Mini, Macbook Pro, iMac, Air, iPhone, iPad, iPods)
Over 50 Billion App Downloads, # of New Apple Store locations, new carriers
Power User Features, New App Switcher, Icons on Mac OS X change
We owe the world to these amazing developers, tickets sold out in minutes
Free Space
New Power Features on OS X, New App Switcher, Better Multitasking
Highest Customer Rating, iOS 6 on 93% of devices, Android Jellybean on X % of devices
Environmentally Friendly, Lisa comes out and talks about it
Orientation tilting icons, Dynamic Color changing icons, New Camera filters possibly on native camera app
We have something that we think you'll love, and one more thing…
Beta is available for developers tomorrow, X Code 5, Developer Session Videos available on Apple website
New AD or video promoting a device, Jony Ive talks about iOS 7
New iCloud Features, Snappier Safari compact ui, New notepad, calendar, phone, contacts UI
Vimeo Video sharing integration, New Siri Features with Ford showcased,
New Apple Product Category, Made in the U.S.A. Mac Pro Revamp, Retina Cinema Displays
iOS 7 / Mac OS X announced for Fall or Holiday Season Release, stock changes as it’s announced
Leap Motion on Macbooks or Mac Keyboards, Wireless Charging, LTE on Macbooks, free space
Feel free to edit it... seriously.
Originally Posted by darkdefender
We owe the world to these amazing developers, tickets sold out in minutes
We're really excited, And here’s… to show a demo
Cheater.
But most of these are impossible. They're either multiples in one or way too specific. Great ideas, though. How about this?
iRadio
AirDrop for iOS
Apple TV API
Touchscreen anything
New MacBook (family)
Major iOS redesign
Gushing over ecosystem/store/
WWDC success
More than 4 demos
802.11ac rollout (either in Macs or via an AirPort family update)
New iMacs
More than six instances of the word 'phenomenal'
A frownsmile
Free Space
New Mac Pro
Wholly new product
New Mac Mini
Redesigned Cinema Display
Musician outro
iOS 7/10.9 beta available during WWDC
TV ad for new product
Tabbed Finder
Craig Federighi on stage
Mac(s) made in USA
Something ships "Today!"
Siri on OS X
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Cheater.
But most of these are impossible. They're either multiples in one or way too specific. Great ideas, though. How about this?
iRadio
AirDrop for iOS
Apple TV API
Touchscreen anything
New MacBook (family)
Major iOS redesign
Gushing over ecosystem/store/
WWDC success
More than 4 demos
802.11ac rollout (either in Macs or via an AirPort family update)
New iMacs
More than six instances of the word 'phenomenal'
A frownsmile
Free Space
New Mac Pro
Wholly new product
New Mac Mini
Redesigned Cinema Display
Musician outro
iOS 7/10.9 beta available during WWDC
TV ad for new product
Tabbed Finder
Craig Federighi on stage
Mac(s) made in USA
Something ships "Today!"
Siri on OS X
Well it's a lot better than mine, so I would say this is what I'll use but I don't know what is a frownsmile is... and I don't think there will be new iMacs unless it's a revision to the Wifi AC... otherwise great man! I love this board.
The "Frownsmile" square had me doubled over in laughter. Best game of Bingo ever!
Maybe that square should have a pic of the Mona Lisa in it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Nice graphic! I should have off that day so maybe I can watch without interruption. I got my WWDC app so we will see how that works out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister
2:00am for me on Tuesday morning. To watch or not to watch, that is the question.
As the years go by it is getting increasingly difficult...
I'm confused...I saw the App update, but where have they indicated intention of streaming the keynote live? That seems to be what's implied here.
Originally Posted by dark defender
...I don't think there will be new iMacs unless it's a revision to the Wifi AC...
Haswell! Haswell! My goodness; it's update time. I don't see the update not having AC, but it would primarily be for Haswell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz
I'm confused...I saw the App update, but where have they indicated intention of streaming the keynote live? That seems to be what's implied here.
Various places (including AI) live blog the event. I was suggesting watching one or more of those.