Perhaps I should have phrased is as they are ultimately the ones who 'manage' the expectations. Either way, It's their extensive track record of excellent products and design that sets an expectation. If you ask any designer, most will identify Apple both as an inspiration and as a standard bearer. Particularly coming on the heels of the Maps fiasco, they should be very conscious of the quality, and public perception, of a major overhaul like this. I don't think I can stomach another Tim Cook apology, so let's hope it comes together.
Would designers say this about software design though?
I think the foundations of iOS 7 are good. But they need more time to perfect the UI. 6 months is not enough time. They tried to do too much in to short amount of time. My guess is we will see changes during these betas. No doubt they are getting plenty of feedback on the app icons and other UI elements that feel unfinished or inconsistent. And according to this article there are changes that aren't captured in beta 1. Which indicates to me an unfinished product was shown off at WWDC. Apple couldn't delay WWDC and felt keeping the existing UI for another year was not an option so they rushed to get something finished. Time will tell if that was a mistake or not.
I'll eat my hat if some or all of these app icons don't change prior to release. It almost feels like they were placeholders put there in a rush to get something done.
Actually, it would be quite brilliant if this was a ruse to throw the competition off about what the real design looks like. But I can't recall Apple ever doing anything like that. So placeholders they likely are.
You think the icons look good because you're used to Android, we hold Apple to a much higher standard.
I'm not huge on the icons either (just as I don't like Windows flat Metro tiles), but like I said, just download a different launcher and be done with it. Easy peasey.
Maybe...the design is purposefully dreadful because Apple doesn't want to reveal their true UI-skin for everyone to emulate before iOS7 officially launches. Apple knows design is paramount...they set the current standard after all. But the gap is closing really fast. So Apple has to do much better than what they displayed at the developer's conference.
OTOH, there's little to base this conjecture upon. Maybe Apple is slipping. Just compare Apple's mobile apps to Google's iOS apps. To me, Google's wins hands down.
John Siracusa absolutely ripped the piss out of them on The Accidental Tech podcast: "Fisher Price, Game Center icon feels like a Barney Show, Preschool".
I listened to his accidental tech podcast with Marco Arment and I was half expecting them to just trash iOS 7 and they didn't at all (didn't like the icons of course). Basically said iOS needed a visual refresh and that this is just the beginning of a long process.
I think there are too many knee jerk reactions right now. I'm hoping this TNW article will calm people down a bit. Someone on MacRumors posted a screen shot of the home screen from a developer session and the doc is very translucent. Totally different than what we see in beta 1. I also noticed in Apple's iOS 7 video app folders look much better than what we see in beta 1. In beta 1 the folders, like the app doc, are a light tinted color based on the wallpaper background whereas in the iOS 7 video the folders are very translucent (not colored at all). There are things like the lock and pass code screen, weather app, control center, etc. that look really good. They look 1000x better than what we have now. I think Apple has the right idea and is moving in the right direction, just needs more time to pull it all together.
I listened to his accidental tech podcast with Marco Arment and I was half expecting them to just trash iOS 7 and they didn't at all (didn't like the icons of course).
Or course they didn't like the icons. That's the worst part. Macro thought they may have went too far in the direction they wanted to go in with lack of obvious buttons and too thin glyphs.
I dislike the arrows on the lock screen, and the fact that unlocking is no longer obvious thanks to the lack of an unlocking arrow. And the camera icon on the lock screen also isn't obvious what you do with it.
Maybe...the design is purposefully dreadful because Apple doesn't want to reveal their true UI-skin for everyone to emulate before iOS7 officially launches.
That's not how Apple operates. They always up their best foot forward.
I'm not huge on the icons either (just as I don't like Windows flat Metro tiles), but like I said, just download a different launcher and be done with it. Easy peasey.
I'm not huge on the icons either (just as I don't like Windows flat Metro tiles), but like I said, just download a different launcher and be done with it. Easy peasey.
Think for just a moment about this. Is your 'solution' to a dreadful design issue that every customer who shops the device in every store will see and in large part base their buying decision on... really 'just download something different?" I don't think you thought this through very far / deeply.
Would designers say this about software design though?
I think the foundations of iOS 7 are good. But they need more time to perfect the UI. 6 months is not enough time. They tried to do too much in to short amount of time. My guess is we will see changes during these betas. No doubt they are getting plenty of feedback on the app icons and other UI elements that feel unfinished or inconsistent. And according to this article there are changes that aren't captured in beta 1. Which indicates to me an unfinished product was shown off at WWDC. Apple couldn't delay WWDC and felt keeping the existing UI for another year was not an option so they rushed to get something finished. Time will tell if that was a mistake or not.
Yes you're right, software design has never been their strong suit (especially on the web services front), even though their brand and market position suggests they should strive to be the best in this area as well. But I think we are in agreement about being forced to show 'something' for WWDC. The design was just So Bad that everyone has their panties in a bunch, myself included. I do take exception in that I think the interior application UI they showed is also very weak, and not just the icons. In fact the icons are the least of my concern because they are just stand-alone designs. The system re-design is a very difficult proposition where you have to come up with a cohesive style that covers every nook and cranny of the user experience. So, to come up with something great by Fall is looking like a stretch to me. I hope I'm wrong.
Or course they didn't like the icons. That's the worst part. Macro thought they may have went too far in the direction they wanted to go in with lack of obvious buttons and too thin glyphs.
I dislike the arrows on the lock screen, and the fact that unlocking is no longer obvious thanks to the lack of an unlocking arrow. And the camera icon on the lock screen also isn't obvious what you do with it.
John Gruber posted this link on his site. I thought it was a balanced, thoughtful read.
Yes you're right, software design has never been their strong suit (especially on the web services front), even though their brand and market position suggests they should strive to be the best in this area as well. But I think we are in agreement about being forced to show 'something' for WWDC. The design was just So Bad that everyone has their panties in a bunch, myself included. I do take exception in that I think the interior application UI they showed is also very weak, and not just the icons. In fact the icons are the least of my concern because they are just stand-alone designs. The system re-design is a very difficult proposition where you have to come up with a cohesive style that covers every nook and cranny of the user experience. So, to come up with something great by Fall is looking like a stretch to me. I hope I'm wrong.
There are a lot of things I like, but it does need work. I think they can make better before release. Won't be perfect but better than what we see in beta 1. If its not then something is wrong in Cupertino.
Apple couldn't delay WWDC and felt keeping the existing UI for another year was not an option so they rushed to get something finished. Time will tell if that was a mistake or not.
It was absolutely a mistake.
Jobs used to talk about the concept of a 'brand bank'. Everything you do as a company acts something like either a deposit or a withdrawal from your account at the brand bank. Like any bank, deposits increase the value of the account, and withdrawals harm it.
The thing is, withdrawals from the brand bank often take out not just the principal, they also take out the interest. When you goof up in a major way - like showcasing unfinished software at a major event where you simultaneously webcast it and distribute through your own TV channel - you make a really major withdrawal from the brand bank including years of accrued interest. And even when you re-deposit the principal amount... it takes a long time to earn back that interest.
So yeah, it was an error. IOS7 is being roughly treated in the press. That's especially true in the investment publications, which is why the stock is underperforming in the wake of the keynote.
Apple would have been better served by showcasing the old UI layer with the many other improvements in place. By doing that, they would have had the press focussed on the substantive improvements that really were made, rather than on the awful iconography, etc. There would be disappointment, but Apple could spin and say "We are in the process of creating a beautiful and delicious sandwich for you." Then people would have something to look forward to. Telling people there is a great sandwich coming is always better than handing them one filled with crap.
There are a lot of things I like, but it does need work. I think they can make better before release. Won't be perfect but better than what we see in beta 1. If its not then something is wrong in Cupertino.
Think for just a moment about this. Is your 'solution' to a dreadful design issue that every customer who shops the device in every store will see and in large part base their buying decision on... really 'just download something different?" I don't think you thought this through very far / deeply.
I get your point, but that would only apply if the majority hate something. Facebook Home, for example, have an advertisement that points out that you can remove it if you don't like it. Not exactly a promising approach.
I'm merely coming at it from the angle that not everyone likes the same things. Not everyone is going to like the new UI just as there will be those that will. Variety and options are the key things here. Not sure why that is causing a negative attitude so I'll just leave it at that.
Apple would have been better served by showcasing the old UI layer with the many other improvements in place. By doing that, they would have had the press focussed on the substantive improvements that really were made, rather than on the awful iconography, etc. There would be disappointment, but Apple could spin and say "We are in the process of creating a beautiful and delicious sandwich for you." Then people would have something to look forward to. Telling people there is a great sandwich coming is always better than handing them one filled with crap.
Part of me agrees but in practicality showcasing a lame-duck UI would have been a huge risk. I'm sure they considered it. I think they went with what they currently had despite knowing it is was a shit sandwich design-wise. They were just in a tough spot.
The "value" in iOS is not a thin veneer of virtual ink. Aside from fit and finish the real value is in the ecosystem. Apps you can trust implicitly. Not forcing the user to manage a complex, underlying file system. Cloud services you can rely on to back up your data without a second thought. A virtual assistant who is already the quickest way to achieve certain tasks and will continue to evolve in more helpful ways.
The Android is chock full of smoke and mirrors (pentile displays, megapixel myth) and flash-in-the-pan features that don't reach critical mass because of half-baked implementation or multilayered fragmentation issues (manufacturer, formfactor, hardware, carrier update support). I sit on the train and watch young koreans fumble around with Samsung phones. They play freemium games which only take up a third of the comically-oversized screens because the developer had to tailor their code for the lowest common denominator screen sizes. How amazing is that 5.5 inch screen that can't run apps which make full use of the screen really?
Anyone can make a phone that outshines the iPhone in one or even a few places. Throw it, market it (loudly) and see if it sticks. Abundance should not to be confused with choice though. While Android manufacturers are scrambling for market share Apple has a clear long term direction and is gradually mapping out a path to take them there. They are cash-flow positive. They top consumer satisfaction ratings and web usage statistics. We have no reason to believe that their rise will be anything other than meteoric.
I thought it was pretty amusing that you took time to address both real and imaginary typos in my post, but then completely failed to address any of the points I made. But ok, fair enough.
If you believe that customers purchasing iPhones are largely doing so based on the 'value' of Apple's ecosystem, or their long term strategy, or the strength of their cloud offerings... all I can say is that you are very misguided. Most of the people buying these devices do not understand a jot or tittle about what makes iCloud better than the many competing cloud products hawked by Apple's competitors. Many of them don't even know what the 'cloud' is, as a matter of fact. Similarly, they don't know about the 'ecosystem' of Apple's products - they think an ecosystem is something connected to how plants grow. Here is the extent of their analyses: Oooh... shiny.
Users buy these devices based on their experience of them. It's a very emotional process. That is in part why Apple built Apple stores - so they could showcase their products under cultured conditions that give rise to the best experience. If you think even for a moment that the casual consumer will overlook a poor experience with a device in order to get some esoteric 'value' that they don't understand from the services behind it, you are very mistaken. The UX of the UI is front and center and it does matter. Jobs understood this very well, and that is why he put so much emphasis upon the physical and software design of Apple's products, and for the stores where they are sold, and for the boxes they come in and even the way they are designed inside. Because it all matters - it all adds up.
Most of the people buying these devices do not understand a jot or tittle about what makes iCloud better than the many competing cloud products hawked by Apple's competitors. Many of them don't even know what the 'cloud' is, as a matter of fact. Similarly, they don't know about the 'ecosystem' of Apple's products - they think an ecosystem is something connected to how plants grow. Here is the extent of their analyses: Oooh... shiny.
I think you severely underestimate the tech-savyness of the younger generation. Many people these days grew up with computers and don't know a life without their existence. That's not to say that they're all going to become computer science majors, but they almost all understand the basics (and then some). I know Apple's consumer base catches a lot of flack for being computer illiterate but in my experience that meme doesn't have much ground to stand on.
Good read. But Aqua was a good 'shock'... It was over the top, but made me want to lick it and then jump in a pool
And yes it did work itself out over time.
I'm not sure the conditions are the same nowadays to allow for a negative design shock... Apple is now a market leader, consumer expectations are much more demanding, and competition is extremely tough. And quite frankly, the Jony Ive story has built up a tremendous amount of pressure to deliver a kick-ass design. He HAS to deliver plain and simple. Otherwise it's going to be "design-gate" for three months.
Comments
I think the foundations of iOS 7 are good. But they need more time to perfect the UI. 6 months is not enough time. They tried to do too much in to short amount of time. My guess is we will see changes during these betas. No doubt they are getting plenty of feedback on the app icons and other UI elements that feel unfinished or inconsistent. And according to this article there are changes that aren't captured in beta 1. Which indicates to me an unfinished product was shown off at WWDC. Apple couldn't delay WWDC and felt keeping the existing UI for another year was not an option so they rushed to get something finished. Time will tell if that was a mistake or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
I'll eat my hat if some or all of these app icons don't change prior to release. It almost feels like they were placeholders put there in a rush to get something done.
Actually, it would be quite brilliant if this was a ruse to throw the competition off about what the real design looks like. But I can't recall Apple ever doing anything like that. So placeholders they likely are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
You think the icons look good because you're used to Android, we hold Apple to a much higher standard.
I'm not huge on the icons either (just as I don't like Windows flat Metro tiles), but like I said, just download a different launcher and be done with it. Easy peasey.
Maybe...the design is purposefully dreadful because Apple doesn't want to reveal their true UI-skin for everyone to emulate before iOS7 officially launches. Apple knows design is paramount...they set the current standard after all. But the gap is closing really fast. So Apple has to do much better than what they displayed at the developer's conference.
OTOH, there's little to base this conjecture upon. Maybe Apple is slipping. Just compare Apple's mobile apps to Google's iOS apps. To me, Google's wins hands down.
Oh well, here's to hoping.
I'm paraphrasing:
Jason Santa Maria referenced the ugly stick:
Marco Arment called them surprisingly bad.
John Siracusa absolutely ripped the piss out of them on The Accidental Tech podcast: "Fisher Price, Game Center icon feels like a Barney Show, Preschool".
Other people, too. MANY of them.
I think there are too many knee jerk reactions right now. I'm hoping this TNW article will calm people down a bit. Someone on MacRumors posted a screen shot of the home screen from a developer session and the doc is very translucent. Totally different than what we see in beta 1. I also noticed in Apple's iOS 7 video app folders look much better than what we see in beta 1. In beta 1 the folders, like the app doc, are a light tinted color based on the wallpaper background whereas in the iOS 7 video the folders are very translucent (not colored at all). There are things like the lock and pass code screen, weather app, control center, etc. that look really good. They look 1000x better than what we have now. I think Apple has the right idea and is moving in the right direction, just needs more time to pull it all together.
Or course they didn't like the icons. That's the worst part. Macro thought they may have went too far in the direction they wanted to go in with lack of obvious buttons and too thin glyphs.
I dislike the arrows on the lock screen, and the fact that unlocking is no longer obvious thanks to the lack of an unlocking arrow. And the camera icon on the lock screen also isn't obvious what you do with it.
That's not how Apple operates. They always up their best foot forward.
You're an Android user, right? Like I said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW
I'm not huge on the icons either (just as I don't like Windows flat Metro tiles), but like I said, just download a different launcher and be done with it. Easy peasey.
Think for just a moment about this. Is your 'solution' to a dreadful design issue that every customer who shops the device in every store will see and in large part base their buying decision on... really 'just download something different?" I don't think you thought this through very far / deeply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Would designers say this about software design though?
I think the foundations of iOS 7 are good. But they need more time to perfect the UI. 6 months is not enough time. They tried to do too much in to short amount of time. My guess is we will see changes during these betas. No doubt they are getting plenty of feedback on the app icons and other UI elements that feel unfinished or inconsistent. And according to this article there are changes that aren't captured in beta 1. Which indicates to me an unfinished product was shown off at WWDC. Apple couldn't delay WWDC and felt keeping the existing UI for another year was not an option so they rushed to get something finished. Time will tell if that was a mistake or not.
Yes you're right, software design has never been their strong suit (especially on the web services front), even though their brand and market position suggests they should strive to be the best in this area as well. But I think we are in agreement about being forced to show 'something' for WWDC. The design was just So Bad that everyone has their panties in a bunch, myself included. I do take exception in that I think the interior application UI they showed is also very weak, and not just the icons. In fact the icons are the least of my concern because they are just stand-alone designs. The system re-design is a very difficult proposition where you have to come up with a cohesive style that covers every nook and cranny of the user experience. So, to come up with something great by Fall is looking like a stretch to me. I hope I'm wrong.
John Gruber posted this link on his site. I thought it was a balanced, thoughtful read.
http://furbo.org/2013/06/11/been-there-done-that/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Apple couldn't delay WWDC and felt keeping the existing UI for another year was not an option so they rushed to get something finished. Time will tell if that was a mistake or not.
It was absolutely a mistake.
Jobs used to talk about the concept of a 'brand bank'. Everything you do as a company acts something like either a deposit or a withdrawal from your account at the brand bank. Like any bank, deposits increase the value of the account, and withdrawals harm it.
The thing is, withdrawals from the brand bank often take out not just the principal, they also take out the interest. When you goof up in a major way - like showcasing unfinished software at a major event where you simultaneously webcast it and distribute through your own TV channel - you make a really major withdrawal from the brand bank including years of accrued interest. And even when you re-deposit the principal amount... it takes a long time to earn back that interest.
So yeah, it was an error. IOS7 is being roughly treated in the press. That's especially true in the investment publications, which is why the stock is underperforming in the wake of the keynote.
Apple would have been better served by showcasing the old UI layer with the many other improvements in place. By doing that, they would have had the press focussed on the substantive improvements that really were made, rather than on the awful iconography, etc. There would be disappointment, but Apple could spin and say "We are in the process of creating a beautiful and delicious sandwich for you." Then people would have something to look forward to. Telling people there is a great sandwich coming is always better than handing them one filled with crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
There are a lot of things I like, but it does need work. I think they can make better before release. Won't be perfect but better than what we see in beta 1. If its not then something is wrong in Cupertino.
You're lips to god's ears.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618
Think for just a moment about this. Is your 'solution' to a dreadful design issue that every customer who shops the device in every store will see and in large part base their buying decision on... really 'just download something different?" I don't think you thought this through very far / deeply.
I get your point, but that would only apply if the majority hate something. Facebook Home, for example, have an advertisement that points out that you can remove it if you don't like it. Not exactly a promising approach.
I'm merely coming at it from the angle that not everyone likes the same things. Not everyone is going to like the new UI just as there will be those that will. Variety and options are the key things here. Not sure why that is causing a negative attitude so I'll just leave it at that.
Bitch away, gentlemen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618
Apple would have been better served by showcasing the old UI layer with the many other improvements in place. By doing that, they would have had the press focussed on the substantive improvements that really were made, rather than on the awful iconography, etc. There would be disappointment, but Apple could spin and say "We are in the process of creating a beautiful and delicious sandwich for you." Then people would have something to look forward to. Telling people there is a great sandwich coming is always better than handing them one filled with crap.
Part of me agrees but in practicality showcasing a lame-duck UI would have been a huge risk. I'm sure they considered it. I think they went with what they currently had despite knowing it is was a shit sandwich design-wise. They were just in a tough spot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunks
The "value" in iOS is not a thin veneer of virtual ink. Aside from fit and finish the real value is in the ecosystem. Apps you can trust implicitly. Not forcing the user to manage a complex, underlying file system. Cloud services you can rely on to back up your data without a second thought. A virtual assistant who is already the quickest way to achieve certain tasks and will continue to evolve in more helpful ways.
The Android is chock full of smoke and mirrors (pentile displays, megapixel myth) and flash-in-the-pan features that don't reach critical mass because of half-baked implementation or multilayered fragmentation issues (manufacturer, formfactor, hardware, carrier update support). I sit on the train and watch young koreans fumble around with Samsung phones. They play freemium games which only take up a third of the comically-oversized screens because the developer had to tailor their code for the lowest common denominator screen sizes. How amazing is that 5.5 inch screen that can't run apps which make full use of the screen really?
Anyone can make a phone that outshines the iPhone in one or even a few places. Throw it, market it (loudly) and see if it sticks. Abundance should not to be confused with choice though. While Android manufacturers are scrambling for market share Apple has a clear long term direction and is gradually mapping out a path to take them there. They are cash-flow positive. They top consumer satisfaction ratings and web usage statistics. We have no reason to believe that their rise will be anything other than meteoric.
I thought it was pretty amusing that you took time to address both real and imaginary typos in my post, but then completely failed to address any of the points I made. But ok, fair enough.
If you believe that customers purchasing iPhones are largely doing so based on the 'value' of Apple's ecosystem, or their long term strategy, or the strength of their cloud offerings... all I can say is that you are very misguided. Most of the people buying these devices do not understand a jot or tittle about what makes iCloud better than the many competing cloud products hawked by Apple's competitors. Many of them don't even know what the 'cloud' is, as a matter of fact. Similarly, they don't know about the 'ecosystem' of Apple's products - they think an ecosystem is something connected to how plants grow. Here is the extent of their analyses: Oooh... shiny.
Users buy these devices based on their experience of them. It's a very emotional process. That is in part why Apple built Apple stores - so they could showcase their products under cultured conditions that give rise to the best experience. If you think even for a moment that the casual consumer will overlook a poor experience with a device in order to get some esoteric 'value' that they don't understand from the services behind it, you are very mistaken. The UX of the UI is front and center and it does matter. Jobs understood this very well, and that is why he put so much emphasis upon the physical and software design of Apple's products, and for the stores where they are sold, and for the boxes they come in and even the way they are designed inside. Because it all matters - it all adds up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618
Most of the people buying these devices do not understand a jot or tittle about what makes iCloud better than the many competing cloud products hawked by Apple's competitors. Many of them don't even know what the 'cloud' is, as a matter of fact. Similarly, they don't know about the 'ecosystem' of Apple's products - they think an ecosystem is something connected to how plants grow. Here is the extent of their analyses: Oooh... shiny.I think you severely underestimate the tech-savyness of the younger generation. Many people these days grew up with computers and don't know a life without their existence. That's not to say that they're all going to become computer science majors, but they almost all understand the basics (and then some). I know Apple's consumer base catches a lot of flack for being computer illiterate but in my experience that meme doesn't have much ground to stand on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
John Gruber posted this link on his site. I thought it was a balanced, thoughtful read.
http://furbo.org/2013/06/11/been-there-done-that/
Good read. But Aqua was a good 'shock'... It was over the top, but made me want to lick it and then jump in a pool
And yes it did work itself out over time.
I'm not sure the conditions are the same nowadays to allow for a negative design shock... Apple is now a market leader, consumer expectations are much more demanding, and competition is extremely tough. And quite frankly, the Jony Ive story has built up a tremendous amount of pressure to deliver a kick-ass design. He HAS to deliver plain and simple. Otherwise it's going to be "design-gate" for three months.