Listen, I'm a developer, a designer, and a UX architect
Please stop telling people what you are. This forum is filled with UI designers. Steve Jobs didn't finish college and David Karp didn't finish high school. What you are trained in means nothing. Tiger Woods telling us he's a golfer means nothing if we don't know who he is. They're all just words.
With that said, I do agree with your thoughts in the colours blending thing in iOS 7 that makes edges and contrasts ridiculous. But I also understand that this whole thing was 7 months in the making. And it's not out yet. We can complain about that ugly icons and stupid contrasts, I have myself, but they may fix all that stuff by September. And you can be sure they are well aware of this stuff. iPhone OS 1.0 changed heaps between beta and release, and that was with 0 outside devs testing the thing. iOS now has 6,000,000 devs I think. I'm confident they'll hear and feedback and fix the crucial stuff. They did a huge amount in 7 months. They can pull this off.
On MacRumors there's a threads where people are posting ios 7 screen shots. Just looking at them shows how complex this UI is compared to previous versions. Even if some of this stuff isn't new to mobile OS's its certainly new to iOS. I look back at pre-WWDC comments and not many people expected iOS 7 to be completely different. They basically expected the look of the music or podcasts app with glossiness removed from apps and UI elements. Even though some of the rumors said it was a top to bottom redesign I don't think many believed that would actually be the case. I'll be curious to see what people's reactions are say a month or two from now after they've had a chance to use it for more than a few days (and Apple has fixed bugs and incorporated changes based on developer feedback).
The two main things they need to do is fix the home screen icon designs, and fix bugs. Most of the UI looks great. I'm into the minimal look. Hope they polish and tweak and bug fix all the way until September.
It remains interesting, as we can for sure expect new icons when it is released. To all those who want to complain: wait until it isn't in private beta anymore!
Icons could definitely use some work, but I could get used to it I guess if the new features work as planned. I liked the overall colors of iOS 6, and would have been fine if they just cleaned up some of the cheesier elements and added the new features. I also understand Apple needs to show something radically different UI-wise or they would have to hear endless "stale" and "dated" comments. Can't wait to see the final version.
Your attitude is refreshing. I've been involved in rebranding efforts from product level to corporation wide, and no matter what, when you present the big ideas to people they rush into the details. When you ask for feedback on overall direction and tone, they fixate on minutiae and refuse to budge. The icons are icons, but some people would have you believe they are the most important elements of an OS. What a load of crap. Some of the icons aren't what I'd choose (personally), but to be honest, they're just icons. They all appear to use the same palette and look like they're part of the same family, and beyond that I'll get used to them. The colour scheme is different, I'm not even sure I've seen enough of it to comment on it definitively, especially considering it's a beta version, and they haven't had much time to work on polish, and any opinion seems to me, especially strongly against, to be getting all worked up about a lot of nothing whatsoever. But that's what people like to do, get all worked up about a lot of nothing - it also is a great way to grab attention, and manipulate people into joining their angry pitchfork wielding mob.
The two main things they need to do is fix the home screen icon designs, and fix bugs. Most of the UI looks great. I'm into the minimal look. Hope they polish and tweak and bug fix all the way until September.
If you have access to the WWDC app watch the What's New in iOS 7 Interface Design. It's a really great video that explains Apple's vision with the redesign at a completely non technical level. It shows that a lot of thought was put into the redesign. It definitely wasn't change for the sake of change or make everything flat because that's the current design trend. They do talk about the app icons, so I don't think they were designed by marketing. Just a really great video. Though I will say Greg Christie (who runs the human interface team) has a very monotonous speaking voice. I don't think we'd ever want to see him up on stage during a keynote.
I still think if they get enough negative feedback on the icons some of them may get a redesign.
Your attitude is refreshing. I've been involved in rebranding efforts from product level to corporation wide, and no matter what, when you present the big ideas to people they rush into the details. When you ask for feedback on overall direction and tone, they fixate on minutiae and refuse to budge. The icons are icons, but some people would have you believe they are the most important elements of an OS. What a load of crap. Some of the icons aren't what I'd choose (personally), but to be honest, they're just icons. They all appear to use the same palette and look like they're part of the same family, and beyond that I'll get used to them. The colour scheme is different, I'm not even sure I've seen enough of it to comment on it definitively, especially considering it's a beta version, and they haven't had much time to work on polish, and any opinion seems to me, especially strongly against, to be getting all worked up about a lot of nothing whatsoever. But that's what people like to do, get all worked up about a lot of nothing - it also is a great way to grab attention, and manipulate people into joining their angry pitchfork wielding mob.
I've said this before and will say again, I think there's a lot of knee jerk reactions based on limited use of a first beta software or no use at all. Lets wait and see how people feel 2-3 months from now when they've used it more and the UI is more refined and polished. Considering this was a complete redesign I'm sure Apple is getting a lot of UI feedback in addition to bug fixes. I can't imagine they'll completely ignore all of that feedback.
I've said this before and will say again, I think there's a lot of knee jerk reactions based on limited use of a first beta software or no use at all. Lets wait and see how people feel 2-3 months from now when they've used it more and the UI is more refined and polished. Considering this was a complete redesign I'm sure Apple is getting a lot of UI feedback in addition to bug fixes. I can't imagine they'll completely ignore all of that feedback.
Couldn't agree more. I can't wait to get my own hands on this new OS and have a play, very excited about it.
More evidence of Android and iOS becoming more and more alike: Apple is also going to offer their version of Google Now, calling it "Today", anticipating your travels and schedule in advance and displaying them in the notification center. Perhaps its a good thing for everyone that Google doesn't ascribe to aggressive courtroom protection of their innovations and IP. Everyone benefits, especially mobile device users.
When someone uses the word 'architect' when applied to UI design, my BS meter redlines. And your belief that Apple should 'hide' elements from developer just so the press gives them an easier ride clearly demonstrates that you have no clue what a beta is for.
If you don't understand what the term 'UX Architect' means, that's fine. But you could at least have Googled it first before you decided to get personal. This isn't rocket science.
I have a feeling the icons and overall design won't change much between now and release. Apple has proudly plastered the new icons all over their website, and I can't seem them changing the overall look of the new icons that drastically before this fall.
Honestly if the icon colors were more muted and less neon it would probably look fine, and that is all I'm expecting Apple to do as far as icons. With the other issues, they may adjust the font colors in some of the apps or add drop shadow effects, but I don't think they're going to change the fonts.
It definitely wasn't change for the sake of change
I think that form-wise, Jon Ive naturally wanted to put his own visual stamp on iOS, in place of what previous Apple bosses had done.
Function-wise, a lot of additions seem geared towards attracting (and keeping) more users, by finally including a lot of features that people like in other mobile systems.... features that could've been done years ago, but which had powerful people against them; people who are now gone.
So I think a lot of it was change because they finally could.
Quote:
or make everything flat because that's the current design trend.
On the contrary, of course current design trends had a lot to do with it. And in another five or six years, the UI will get changed again, when the flat translucent look gets old and tired. It's the way the world works.
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It actually wasn't a lot of visual change. Translucent and white, instead of charcoal linen and pinstripes. Flatter icons. Lighter fonts. More colors. But the underlying static-icon-grid homescreen ideology stayed the same. Still no widgets.
The Today idea (like Google's Now) is encouraging, as smartphones continue heading more towards being an active assistant, instead of passive tool.
I think people will quickly get used to it. Heck, I think there's less argument against it from iPhone fans, than when the iPhone 4 design was first leaked. Remember the outcry about how industrial Zune-like it was? "Obviously not an Apple design!" people said. Yet now they love it.
I think that form-wise, Jon Ive naturally wanted to put his own visual stamp on iOS, in place of what previous Apple bosses had done.
<span style="line-height:1.231;">Function-wise, a lot of additions seem geared towards attracting (and keeping) more users, by finally including a lot of features that people like in other mobile systems.... features that could've been done years ago, but which had powerful people against them; people who are now gone.</span>
So I think a lot of it was change because they finally could.
On the contrary, of course current design trends had a lot to do with it. <span style="line-height:1.231;">And in another five or six years, the UI will get changed again, when the flat translucent look gets old and tired. It's the way the world works.</span>
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I watched the iOS 7 UI video on the WWDC app. It gave me a much better understanding of why they did what they did. John Gruber was right when he said Apple decided it was time for the training wheels to come off. My point about the flat design was if Apple was going flat just because its the current trend everything would have been flat ala Microsoft. But that's not the case. One of the designers explained why they used gradients in some of the app icons and he said its because just a plain solid color is boring. The notes app uses the letterpress effect, again I think to make it a little less sterile. There's definitely work they need to do in terms of consistency and finding the right balance between removing ornamentation and clutter and providing an experience that isn't too clinical/boring. Ive used words like vitality and enjoyment. I think they're finding other ways to bring that into the OS.
As far as change for the sake of change I agree with you that they're changing now because they can (no Jobs and Forstall in the way). But there definitely was a thought process that went behind the change . It wasn't just get rid of the green felt and glossiness. I think a lot of it revolved around the thought that people know how to use touch screen devices and no longer need the real world visual cues to understand how to use something.
What's frustrating is Apple is still playing catch up in terms of useful features. A lot of what we're seeing in iOS 7 is a copy of what other OS's already have. Why didn't we see some of this stuff in iOS 6 (or even earlier)? It's pretty sad when one of the major features Forstall highlights is Siri being able to provide sports scores. It pisses me off that he (and Jobs in some ways) forced Apple to play catch up in software.
This shows Apple have unleashed Ives. iOS looks forward looking, progressive. Futuristic. Understated. Elegant. Gorgeous. Far more dynamic and less static. Less is more.
I'm sure Apple know what they have to do.
This is only in Beta. To say that? It's incredible...a Herculean effort to get to this point.
It's a real poke in the eye to Samesung and the 'me too' iPhone crowd.
The consistency, clarity and thought to the 'use' of this version harnessing aesthetic design with feature functionality....
...makes this one KICK-ASS OS update. The best one yet.
It ear marks a 'sea change' post Steve Jobs.
'Can't innovate my ass.'
Now where's that 4.7 and 5.7 iPhone 6 to really show off that gorgeous new iOS7 on a larger retina screen... (iOS7 is going to make a lot of sense going forward...)
Well, don't let the door slap your ass on the way out. What an Apple loyalist, this was your first post. Have you been asleep for a number of decades?
Nope. This is just the first thing they've done that has bothered me enough to post about in a public forum. I don't work in the tech industry and I have nothing to do with design. My field is about as far away from either of those things as you can possibly get. I've just been a long-time end user. As a poster above stated, this is a huge move away from what set iOS apart from it's competitors; I can get the same crappy visual experience from another company for significantly less money. What Apple had in me was a customer that was willing to pay a premium for easier usability and a more pleasing and thoughtful visual experience. Why would I pay a premium for something that looks and feels like a cheap Android knock-off?
Frankly speaking, from my perspective it looks to me like Apple was sincere in their estimation about how wonderful IOS 7 is, and they are likely quite shocked at the reception it is getting.
It's getting a good reception. Why would they be shocked? Come off it.
Hey - it's now coming out that many of the icons for IOS 7 weren't even designed by Apple's UI designers - they were done by marketing.
While many skeuomorphic elements are rid of, this one makes an entrance. A camera. The earlier lens icon was far more meaningful & truer.
Photos is an unclear icon. A simple stack of photos (as seen for iPad album) would be apt.
All icons have lost their shadow effect. The font too. A lighter background would make visibility challenging.
Without a 3D depth effect, icons looks very flat. Earlier ones would feel complete with the edge depth.
Jony Ive clearly rushed the icons, using a marketing team instead of the app design team. hence the disconnect between the UIs of icons and apps. Hope the app designers take over the icons UI for the final release.
Comments
If Facebook can employ him Apple can. He's currently helping the Facebook Home team lead by that Push Pop Press guy.
Please stop telling people what you are. This forum is filled with UI designers. Steve Jobs didn't finish college and David Karp didn't finish high school. What you are trained in means nothing. Tiger Woods telling us he's a golfer means nothing if we don't know who he is. They're all just words.
With that said, I do agree with your thoughts in the colours blending thing in iOS 7 that makes edges and contrasts ridiculous. But I also understand that this whole thing was 7 months in the making. And it's not out yet. We can complain about that ugly icons and stupid contrasts, I have myself, but they may fix all that stuff by September. And you can be sure they are well aware of this stuff. iPhone OS 1.0 changed heaps between beta and release, and that was with 0 outside devs testing the thing. iOS now has 6,000,000 devs I think. I'm confident they'll hear and feedback and fix the crucial stuff. They did a huge amount in 7 months. They can pull this off.
The two main things they need to do is fix the home screen icon designs, and fix bugs. Most of the UI looks great. I'm into the minimal look. Hope they polish and tweak and bug fix all the way until September.
Indeed they do.
They should contract Louis Mantia and Sebastian De With to fix them. They'd have it done in two weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSteelers
Icons could definitely use some work, but I could get used to it I guess if the new features work as planned. I liked the overall colors of iOS 6, and would have been fine if they just cleaned up some of the cheesier elements and added the new features. I also understand Apple needs to show something radically different UI-wise or they would have to hear endless "stale" and "dated" comments. Can't wait to see the final version.
Your attitude is refreshing. I've been involved in rebranding efforts from product level to corporation wide, and no matter what, when you present the big ideas to people they rush into the details. When you ask for feedback on overall direction and tone, they fixate on minutiae and refuse to budge. The icons are icons, but some people would have you believe they are the most important elements of an OS. What a load of crap. Some of the icons aren't what I'd choose (personally), but to be honest, they're just icons. They all appear to use the same palette and look like they're part of the same family, and beyond that I'll get used to them. The colour scheme is different, I'm not even sure I've seen enough of it to comment on it definitively, especially considering it's a beta version, and they haven't had much time to work on polish, and any opinion seems to me, especially strongly against, to be getting all worked up about a lot of nothing whatsoever. But that's what people like to do, get all worked up about a lot of nothing - it also is a great way to grab attention, and manipulate people into joining their angry pitchfork wielding mob.
If you have access to the WWDC app watch the What's New in iOS 7 Interface Design. It's a really great video that explains Apple's vision with the redesign at a completely non technical level. It shows that a lot of thought was put into the redesign. It definitely wasn't change for the sake of change or make everything flat because that's the current design trend. They do talk about the app icons, so I don't think they were designed by marketing. Just a really great video. Though I will say Greg Christie (who runs the human interface team) has a very monotonous speaking voice. I don't think we'd ever want to see him up on stage during a keynote.
I still think if they get enough negative feedback on the icons some of them may get a redesign.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
I've said this before and will say again, I think there's a lot of knee jerk reactions based on limited use of a first beta software or no use at all. Lets wait and see how people feel 2-3 months from now when they've used it more and the UI is more refined and polished. Considering this was a complete redesign I'm sure Apple is getting a lot of UI feedback in addition to bug fixes. I can't imagine they'll completely ignore all of that feedback.
Couldn't agree more. I can't wait to get my own hands on this new OS and have a play, very excited about it.
EDIT: I'm certain it's been noticed how similar Apple's use of Helvetica Neue appears to Google self-designed Roboto. Clean and thin is in I guess. Give things enough time and the average consumer might be hard-pressed to see obvious differences between Android and iOS by just glancing at the screen.
https://www.google.com/search?q=roboto+thin&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS525US525&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=09O5UdOKF4LO9QSWjIGAAw&ved=0CEwQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz
When someone uses the word 'architect' when applied to UI design, my BS meter redlines. And your belief that Apple should 'hide' elements from developer just so the press gives them an easier ride clearly demonstrates that you have no clue what a beta is for.
If you don't understand what the term 'UX Architect' means, that's fine. But you could at least have Googled it first before you decided to get personal. This isn't rocket science.
I have a feeling the icons and overall design won't change much between now and release. Apple has proudly plastered the new icons all over their website, and I can't seem them changing the overall look of the new icons that drastically before this fall.
Honestly if the icon colors were more muted and less neon it would probably look fine, and that is all I'm expecting Apple to do as far as icons. With the other issues, they may adjust the font colors in some of the apps or add drop shadow effects, but I don't think they're going to change the fonts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
It definitely wasn't change for the sake of change
I think that form-wise, Jon Ive naturally wanted to put his own visual stamp on iOS, in place of what previous Apple bosses had done.
Function-wise, a lot of additions seem geared towards attracting (and keeping) more users, by finally including a lot of features that people like in other mobile systems.... features that could've been done years ago, but which had powerful people against them; people who are now gone.
So I think a lot of it was change because they finally could.
Quote:
or make everything flat because that's the current design trend.
On the contrary, of course current design trends had a lot to do with it. And in another five or six years, the UI will get changed again, when the flat translucent look gets old and tired. It's the way the world works.
---
It actually wasn't a lot of visual change. Translucent and white, instead of charcoal linen and pinstripes. Flatter icons. Lighter fonts. More colors. But the underlying static-icon-grid homescreen ideology stayed the same. Still no widgets.
The Today idea (like Google's Now) is encouraging, as smartphones continue heading more towards being an active assistant, instead of passive tool.
I think people will quickly get used to it. Heck, I think there's less argument against it from iPhone fans, than when the iPhone 4 design was first leaked. Remember the outcry about how industrial Zune-like it was? "Obviously not an Apple design!" people said. Yet now they love it.
As far as change for the sake of change I agree with you that they're changing now because they can (no Jobs and Forstall in the way). But there definitely was a thought process that went behind the change . It wasn't just get rid of the green felt and glossiness. I think a lot of it revolved around the thought that people know how to use touch screen devices and no longer need the real world visual cues to understand how to use something.
What's frustrating is Apple is still playing catch up in terms of useful features. A lot of what we're seeing in iOS 7 is a copy of what other OS's already have. Why didn't we see some of this stuff in iOS 6 (or even earlier)? It's pretty sad when one of the major features Forstall highlights is Siri being able to provide sports scores. It pisses me off that he (and Jobs in some ways) forced Apple to play catch up in software.
I was blown away. Stunning.
This shows Apple have unleashed Ives. iOS looks forward looking, progressive. Futuristic. Understated. Elegant. Gorgeous. Far more dynamic and less static. Less is more.
I'm sure Apple know what they have to do.
This is only in Beta. To say that? It's incredible...a Herculean effort to get to this point.
It's a real poke in the eye to Samesung and the 'me too' iPhone crowd.
The consistency, clarity and thought to the 'use' of this version harnessing aesthetic design with feature functionality....
...makes this one KICK-ASS OS update. The best one yet.
It ear marks a 'sea change' post Steve Jobs.
'Can't innovate my ass.'
Now where's that 4.7 and 5.7 iPhone 6 to really show off that gorgeous new iOS7 on a larger retina screen... (iOS7 is going to make a lot of sense going forward...)
Lemon Bon Bon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky
Well, don't let the door slap your ass on the way out. What an Apple loyalist, this was your first post. Have you been asleep for a number of decades?
Nope. This is just the first thing they've done that has bothered me enough to post about in a public forum. I don't work in the tech industry and I have nothing to do with design. My field is about as far away from either of those things as you can possibly get. I've just been a long-time end user. As a poster above stated, this is a huge move away from what set iOS apart from it's competitors; I can get the same crappy visual experience from another company for significantly less money. What Apple had in me was a customer that was willing to pay a premium for easier usability and a more pleasing and thoughtful visual experience. Why would I pay a premium for something that looks and feels like a cheap Android knock-off?
Now we really know the main goal of Steve Jobs on Apple: stop Ive's crap.
It's getting a good reception. Why would they be shocked? Come off it.
Source? Proof? Anything?
No, that's so far removed from the truth that it's absolutely pathetic you'd even post it.
While many skeuomorphic elements are rid of, this one makes an entrance. A camera. The earlier lens icon was far more meaningful & truer.
Photos is an unclear icon. A simple stack of photos (as seen for iPad album) would be apt.
All icons have lost their shadow effect. The font too. A lighter background would make visibility challenging.
Without a 3D depth effect, icons looks very flat. Earlier ones would feel complete with the edge depth.
Jony Ive clearly rushed the icons, using a marketing team instead of the app design team. hence the disconnect between the UIs of icons and apps. Hope the app designers take over the icons UI for the final release.