Because if you inflated the size of the circles to their market size, the red circle dominates the chart, and the current green circle isn't siphoning off users from the red at as fast a rate any more.
Why did they make an iPod Mini/Nano? Because they could, it made for good product, and it increased their share, and made them a load of money. Exact same reasons why they might be tempted to a feature-phone class iPhone (or another name).
Again, stop being obtuse, this is incredibly boring. I think I'll go back to ignoring you.
Because if you inflated the size of the circles to their market size, the red circle dominates the chart, and the current green circle isn't siphoning off users from the red at as fast a rate any more.
That's mixing metaphors and stretching it a bit thin.
...a feature-phone class iPhone (or another name).
It'd make for a good ad, at least.
"Hey, remember that second to none ecosystem we've been creating for the last six years? And how we've always been a company that focuses on the experience of our products? Buy our new phone so that YOU CAN'T BE A PART OF IT AT ALL.
This is our signature, and it means everything:"
*fade in with the Wi-Fi logo, the App Store logo, the iOS logo, the Siri logo, and a map with a huge "NO" sign over all of them*
I'd say your understanding of rich information is a bit thin if you can't comprehend the size of the feature phone market and why that might be attractive to Apple.
We stopped talking about the link half a page ago. We're talking about a feature phone. Keep up.
I'd say your understanding of rich information is a bit thin if you can't comprehend the size of the feature phone market and why that might be attractive to Apple.
I don't recall saying anything about that. I recall saying that Apple isn't in the business of making crap, and that it would be ludicrous to abandon the ecosystem they worked so long to create, much less have a "stripped down" iOS.
I said nothing about the size of the stupidphone market.
We stopped talking about the link half a page ago. We're talking about a feature phone. Keep up.
I'd say your understanding of rich information is a bit thin if you can't comprehend the size of the feature phone market and why that might be attractive to Apple.
We stopped talking about the link half a page ago. We're talking about a feature phone. Keep up.
Ignoring now, bye.
The feature phone market is shrinking while the smart phone market is expanding. Why would Apple waste money entering a shrinking market?
Like watches? Or tablets? Or mp3 players? Or small form factor laptops?
I don't particular care about the whys or wheres of whether Apple will enter the market. Apple decides what markets they'll enter, not me, or you, or the idiot. And they do so when they have a product that will add value to that market, which none of us can possibly know because we don't have access to their labs. But if they did, how would they do it? What could they have cooking in their labs? These are interesting questions to me.
If you aren't interested in those questions there are plenty of other threads.
I'm still not sold on the iwatch but then again Apple is not competing against Rolex. It remains to be seen if smart watches are any good.
True, but lots of peoples are taking it seriously and it's a market that isn't exactly on fire, hardly any young people wear watches any more. Which is my point; if Apple have something in their R&D that is compelling, then they'll enter the market, irrespective of whether it's growing, or shrinking. If they don't have the product, they won't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Tablets were DOA before the iPad and not because no one wanted tablets.
My point exactly. The industry was pretty much dead, but Apple entered it anyway because they felt they has something to offer, something that people would buy. They were right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Apple entered the mp3 market early enough when it was making money. It was the leading reason for growth.
And yet as the iPod launched it was said that the mp3 player market was oversaturated, a fad, and had no more room for growth. Apple thought that was wrong, there was room for growth, and they had something compelling that they though people would buy. That's my point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
There were no real ultra books prior to the MBA. In addition, the MBA was ridiculed for being expensive.
And it didn't sell very well, if I recall correctly. The first Air was pretty far from what we call an Ultrabook today, it wasn't powerful, didn't have the battery life, and didn't have the IO many need. But Apple kept iterating until it was worth buying, they saw a market there that they could own if they got in early enough.
Now they're at the 11" size, a size that was pretty much dead for anything other than netbooks. They saw a compelling product they could introduce to a non-existant sector and launched it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
There will be no feature phone iPhone. When people think of the iPhone, they think phone, Internet, media player, apps.
When people thought of the iPad, they thought of feminine hygiene products. People's thoughts change.
I'm still not sold on the iwatch but then again Apple is not competing against Rolex. It remains to be seen if smart watches are any good.
Tablets were DOA before the iPad and not because no one wanted tablets.
Apple entered the mp3 market early enough when it was making money. It was the leading reason for growth.
There were no real ultra books prior to the MBA. In addition, the MBA was ridiculed for being expensive.
There will be no feature phone iPhone. When people think of the iPhone, they think phone, Internet, media player, apps.
1) There's a reason why I am wearing a cheap $20 watch I bought from a roadside stall (which 4 years later, is still working great). It does what I want it to (tell time, act as a stop watch, with a night-light), and there are no features in those high-end watches that might tempt me to splash out several thousand dollars. If anything, it baffles me how even established companies like G-Shock can screw up the design of their watches (make the panel for stopwatches so small it's practically impossible to see without squinting, difficult to adjust the time, and I can only move the minute/hour hand forward, not backward).
The pebble watch looked interesting, but they took too long to market, the final product didn't look very impressive, and there are more competitors now. I am not sure if the short battery life will be a dealbreaker, but I will definitely given any i-watch a try.
2) And the first MBA did in fact suck (or at least was ahead of its time). It was expensive, slow, had short battery life, and even the SSD option stank because of the slow read/write rates then. That said, the idea of using a unibody construction and doing away with the DVD drive was, in hindsight, pure genius. In a time where laptops were getting bigger and heavier because manufacturers were trying to one-up each other by cramming in more features, it took Apple to remind everyone what a laptop was for - portable computing.
People want added functionality unless there is a reasonable trade off.
I don't think price is a reasonable trade off. It's easier to add features than take them a way.
Possible advantages over the existing iPhone:
- portability. Yes, some really do want a smaller more durable phone.
- price. In addition to lower cost hardware, it's possible that networks would offer lower cost data plans.
- simple. There are millions out there who still don't want a touch screen smart phone because they believe their lives don't need one.
I'm baffled as to why you think price is not a reasonable trade off...it's smack dab in the middle of every single product offering that every existed (+ or - 1%). Maybe you intended to say that it depends on the actual price tradeoff and whether it's substantial enough for the customer to consider.
I agree with you that the trend of decreasing sales of feature phones should be an important factor in Apple's decision to get into the feature phone market (amongst other factors, obviously).
While we in the "developed" world ponder over how we might share some of our telecom advances and advantages with less fortunate Africans and Asians, we may miss out on how they might be moving faster than USA and Europe in deployment and adoption of mobile.
In many parts of Africa, for example, mobile is the default telecom medium. Children there understand land lines as much as we understand telegrams. While we snicker at failure of NFC to take off, mobile payment is spreading fast and wide in Africa.
All to say, we should think not only about how to "download" our technology to the undeveloped populations. We should think about how to learn from them. It's not simply about Apple showing them what subset of iTunes apps they can inherit. It may be about Apple reinventing a new device to meet than their demands.
Possible advantages over the existing iPhone:
- portability. Yes, some really do want a smaller more durable phone.
- price. In addition to lower cost hardware, it's possible that networks would offer lower cost data plans.
- simple. There are millions out there who still don't want a touch screen smart phone because they believe their lives don't need one.
I'm baffled as to why you think price is not a reasonable trade off...it's smack dab in the middle of every single product offering that every existed (+ or - 1%). Maybe you intended to say that it depends on the actual price tradeoff and whether it's substantial enough for the customer to consider.
I agree with you that the trend of decreasing sales of feature phones should be an important factor in Apple's decision to get into the feature phone market (amongst other factors, obviously).
Portability? The iPhone can fit in any pocket or purse. How small should it be?
Price? Cell carriers voluntarily lower data plan pricing? Hahahaha. What's the incentive for them to direct customers to cheaper phones/plans?
Simple? Why would Apple want to cater to them. Apple can't sell something to everyone. Why isn't there an iCalculator. The feature phone market is shrinking. Leave them to Nokia or Sony. The money is in smartphones. In addition, you can a cheap-ass android. So why would you want Apple to go for the lowest common denominator.
I may have been too simplistic to say that price is not a good trade off. Apple doesn't do cheap. There isn't a $300 Mac. There isn't a $500 MacBook.
Portability? The iPhone can fit in any pocket or purse. How small should it be?
Price? Cell carriers voluntarily lower data plan pricing? Hahahaha. What's the incentive for them to direct customers to cheaper phones/plans?
Simple? Why would Apple want to cater to them. Apple can't sell something to everyone. Why isn't there an iCalculator. The feature phone market is shrinking. Leave them to Nokia or Sony. The money is in smartphones. In addition, you can a cheap-ass android. So why would you want Apple to go for the lowest common denominator.
I may have been too simplistic to say that price is not a good trade off. Apple doesn't do cheap. There isn't a $300 Mac. There isn't a $500 MacBook.
Sounds like we need to agree to disagree.
So while I'm not saying that a feature phone is the bees knees, I cannot see why you argue that some don't prefer smaller, cheaper and simpler.
It's the reason why there is still a large feature phone market. Whether or not Apple can execute this while maintaining acceptable margins is unclear.
But if you refuse to see any merit whatsoever in this discussion, I'm not sure I can add anything more...no disrespect.
Sounds like we need to agree to disagree.
So while I'm not saying that a feature phone is the bees knees, I cannot see why you argue that some don't prefer smaller, cheaper and simpler.
It's the reason why there is still a large feature phone market. Whether or not Apple can execute this while maintaining acceptable margins is unclear.
But if you refuse to see any merit whatsoever in this discussion, I'm not sure I can add anything more...no disrespect.
I have no doubt some people prefer "dumb" phones but Apple shouldn't cater to them. Lots of folks prefer Windows but Apple shouldn't sell windows preinstalled on the Macs.
If they dont have a bigger screen im out of apple and into google samsung tired of waiting and samsung has a better camera already and a faster phone thats two generations behind why wait for 3 years when i can have it now or buy a used one thats still better than what iphone is yet to reveal. SO tired of waiting for something to happen apple is awesome but just to slow for me i like technology and samung has that so i guess ill have to put up with not being able to use apple iphone to mac compatability but other than that there is really nothing left for me at apple iphone. just getting boring nothing new fast enough i like to give samsung a try.
If they dont have a bigger screen im out of apple and into google samsung tired of waiting and samsung has a better camera already and a faster phone thats two generations behind why wait for 3 years when i can have it now or buy a used one thats still better than what iphone is yet to reveal. SO tired of waiting for something to happen apple is awesome but just to slow for me i like technology and samung has that so i guess ill have to put up with not being able to use apple iphone to mac compatability but other than that there is really nothing left for me at apple iphone. just getting boring nothing new fast enough i like to give samsung a try. Its been three years they have been saying oh bigger iphone or two iphones and this and that and after waiting three years i think its time to move to samsung for faster hardware upgrades iphone is sweet but to damn slow to upgrade hardware. If you wait 8 years maybe yeah!
[quote name="ein999" url="/t/158129/leaked-schematics-reveal-what-case-makers-expect-apples-low-cost-iphone-iphone-5s-will-look-like/80#post_2352635"]If they don't have a bigger screen I'm out...[/QUOTE]
Bye.
[QUOTE]...a faster phone...[/QUOTE]
Sure it does.
[QUOTE]...why wait for 3 years when i can have it now...[/QUOTE]
That only makes sense to say if you presently own a Samsung product and are wanting something from Apple. How long did it take them to scroll smoothly, again?
[QUOTE]...apple is awesome but...[/QUOTE]
*two hand point, wink, and "tkk-tkk" vocalization*
[QUOTE]...just to slow for me i like technology and samung has that so i guess ill have to put up with not being able to use apple iPhone to mac compatability but other than that there is really nothing left for me at apple iPhone. just getting boring nothing new fast enough i like to give samsung a try.[/QUOTE]
Samsung, you really need to hire English-speaking shills before going on English-speaking websites.
Comments
You have to fill in the rest of the chart... :no:
Here's the finished bit.
"That's the same..."
Nope. See that thing in the corner? That's the Best, with a capital letter. Why would they make something that isn't when they already have?
Because if you inflated the size of the circles to their market size, the red circle dominates the chart, and the current green circle isn't siphoning off users from the red at as fast a rate any more.
Why did they make an iPod Mini/Nano? Because they could, it made for good product, and it increased their share, and made them a load of money. Exact same reasons why they might be tempted to a feature-phone class iPhone (or another name).
Again, stop being obtuse, this is incredibly boring. I think I'll go back to ignoring you.
That's mixing metaphors and stretching it a bit thin.
It'd make for a good ad, at least.
"Hey, remember that second to none ecosystem we've been creating for the last six years? And how we've always been a company that focuses on the experience of our products? Buy our new phone so that YOU CAN'T BE A PART OF IT AT ALL.
This is our signature, and it means everything:"
*fade in with the Wi-Fi logo, the App Store logo, the iOS logo, the Siri logo, and a map with a huge "NO" sign over all of them*
Talk about obtuse. Did you even read the link?
I'd say your understanding of rich information is a bit thin if you can't comprehend the size of the feature phone market and why that might be attractive to Apple.
We stopped talking about the link half a page ago. We're talking about a feature phone. Keep up.
Ignoring now, bye.
I don't recall saying anything about that. I recall saying that Apple isn't in the business of making crap, and that it would be ludicrous to abandon the ecosystem they worked so long to create, much less have a "stripped down" iOS.
I said nothing about the size of the stupidphone market.
Thanks for confirming you didn't read the link.
The feature phone market is shrinking while the smart phone market is expanding. Why would Apple waste money entering a shrinking market?
Like watches? Or tablets? Or mp3 players? Or small form factor laptops?
I don't particular care about the whys or wheres of whether Apple will enter the market. Apple decides what markets they'll enter, not me, or you, or the idiot. And they do so when they have a product that will add value to that market, which none of us can possibly know because we don't have access to their labs. But if they did, how would they do it? What could they have cooking in their labs? These are interesting questions to me.
If you aren't interested in those questions there are plenty of other threads.
Tablets were DOA before the iPad and not because no one wanted tablets.
Apple entered the mp3 market early enough when it was making money. It was the leading reason for growth.
There were no real ultra books prior to the MBA. In addition, the MBA was ridiculed for being expensive.
There will be no feature phone iPhone. When people think of the iPhone, they think phone, Internet, media player, apps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
I'm still not sold on the iwatch but then again Apple is not competing against Rolex. It remains to be seen if smart watches are any good.
True, but lots of peoples are taking it seriously and it's a market that isn't exactly on fire, hardly any young people wear watches any more. Which is my point; if Apple have something in their R&D that is compelling, then they'll enter the market, irrespective of whether it's growing, or shrinking. If they don't have the product, they won't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Tablets were DOA before the iPad and not because no one wanted tablets.
My point exactly. The industry was pretty much dead, but Apple entered it anyway because they felt they has something to offer, something that people would buy. They were right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Apple entered the mp3 market early enough when it was making money. It was the leading reason for growth.
And yet as the iPod launched it was said that the mp3 player market was oversaturated, a fad, and had no more room for growth. Apple thought that was wrong, there was room for growth, and they had something compelling that they though people would buy. That's my point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
There were no real ultra books prior to the MBA. In addition, the MBA was ridiculed for being expensive.
And it didn't sell very well, if I recall correctly. The first Air was pretty far from what we call an Ultrabook today, it wasn't powerful, didn't have the battery life, and didn't have the IO many need. But Apple kept iterating until it was worth buying, they saw a market there that they could own if they got in early enough.
Now they're at the 11" size, a size that was pretty much dead for anything other than netbooks. They saw a compelling product they could introduce to a non-existant sector and launched it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
There will be no feature phone iPhone. When people think of the iPhone, they think phone, Internet, media player, apps.
When people thought of the iPad, they thought of feminine hygiene products. People's thoughts change.
I don't think price is a reasonable trade off. It's easier to add features than take them a way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
I'm still not sold on the iwatch but then again Apple is not competing against Rolex. It remains to be seen if smart watches are any good.
Tablets were DOA before the iPad and not because no one wanted tablets.
Apple entered the mp3 market early enough when it was making money. It was the leading reason for growth.
There were no real ultra books prior to the MBA. In addition, the MBA was ridiculed for being expensive.
There will be no feature phone iPhone. When people think of the iPhone, they think phone, Internet, media player, apps.
1) There's a reason why I am wearing a cheap $20 watch I bought from a roadside stall (which 4 years later, is still working great). It does what I want it to (tell time, act as a stop watch, with a night-light), and there are no features in those high-end watches that might tempt me to splash out several thousand dollars. If anything, it baffles me how even established companies like G-Shock can screw up the design of their watches (make the panel for stopwatches so small it's practically impossible to see without squinting, difficult to adjust the time, and I can only move the minute/hour hand forward, not backward).
The pebble watch looked interesting, but they took too long to market, the final product didn't look very impressive, and there are more competitors now. I am not sure if the short battery life will be a dealbreaker, but I will definitely given any i-watch a try.
2) And the first MBA did in fact suck (or at least was ahead of its time). It was expensive, slow, had short battery life, and even the SSD option stank because of the slow read/write rates then. That said, the idea of using a unibody construction and doing away with the DVD drive was, in hindsight, pure genius. In a time where laptops were getting bigger and heavier because manufacturers were trying to one-up each other by cramming in more features, it took Apple to remind everyone what a laptop was for - portable computing.
What's my point? Nothing, I guess. Just ranting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
People want added functionality unless there is a reasonable trade off.
I don't think price is a reasonable trade off. It's easier to add features than take them a way.
Possible advantages over the existing iPhone:
- portability. Yes, some really do want a smaller more durable phone.
- price. In addition to lower cost hardware, it's possible that networks would offer lower cost data plans.
- simple. There are millions out there who still don't want a touch screen smart phone because they believe their lives don't need one.
I'm baffled as to why you think price is not a reasonable trade off...it's smack dab in the middle of every single product offering that every existed (+ or - 1%). Maybe you intended to say that it depends on the actual price tradeoff and whether it's substantial enough for the customer to consider.
I agree with you that the trend of decreasing sales of feature phones should be an important factor in Apple's decision to get into the feature phone market (amongst other factors, obviously).
In many parts of Africa, for example, mobile is the default telecom medium. Children there understand land lines as much as we understand telegrams. While we snicker at failure of NFC to take off, mobile payment is spreading fast and wide in Africa.
All to say, we should think not only about how to "download" our technology to the undeveloped populations. We should think about how to learn from them. It's not simply about Apple showing them what subset of iTunes apps they can inherit. It may be about Apple reinventing a new device to meet than their demands.
Portability? The iPhone can fit in any pocket or purse. How small should it be?
Price? Cell carriers voluntarily lower data plan pricing? Hahahaha. What's the incentive for them to direct customers to cheaper phones/plans?
Simple? Why would Apple want to cater to them. Apple can't sell something to everyone. Why isn't there an iCalculator. The feature phone market is shrinking. Leave them to Nokia or Sony. The money is in smartphones. In addition, you can a cheap-ass android. So why would you want Apple to go for the lowest common denominator.
I may have been too simplistic to say that price is not a good trade off. Apple doesn't do cheap. There isn't a $300 Mac. There isn't a $500 MacBook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Portability? The iPhone can fit in any pocket or purse. How small should it be?
Price? Cell carriers voluntarily lower data plan pricing? Hahahaha. What's the incentive for them to direct customers to cheaper phones/plans?
Simple? Why would Apple want to cater to them. Apple can't sell something to everyone. Why isn't there an iCalculator. The feature phone market is shrinking. Leave them to Nokia or Sony. The money is in smartphones. In addition, you can a cheap-ass android. So why would you want Apple to go for the lowest common denominator.
I may have been too simplistic to say that price is not a good trade off. Apple doesn't do cheap. There isn't a $300 Mac. There isn't a $500 MacBook.
Sounds like we need to agree to disagree.
So while I'm not saying that a feature phone is the bees knees, I cannot see why you argue that some don't prefer smaller, cheaper and simpler.
It's the reason why there is still a large feature phone market. Whether or not Apple can execute this while maintaining acceptable margins is unclear.
But if you refuse to see any merit whatsoever in this discussion, I'm not sure I can add anything more...no disrespect.
I have no doubt some people prefer "dumb" phones but Apple shouldn't cater to them. Lots of folks prefer Windows but Apple shouldn't sell windows preinstalled on the Macs.
Its been three years they have been saying oh bigger iphone or two iphones and this and that and after waiting three years i think its time to move to samsung for faster hardware upgrades iphone is sweet but to damn slow to upgrade hardware. If you wait 8 years maybe yeah!
Bye.
[QUOTE]...a faster phone...[/QUOTE]
Sure it does.
[QUOTE]...why wait for 3 years when i can have it now...[/QUOTE]
That only makes sense to say if you presently own a Samsung product and are wanting something from Apple. How long did it take them to scroll smoothly, again?
[QUOTE]...apple is awesome but...[/QUOTE]
*two hand point, wink, and "tkk-tkk" vocalization*
[QUOTE]...just to slow for me i like technology and samung has that so i guess ill have to put up with not being able to use apple iPhone to mac compatability but other than that there is really nothing left for me at apple iPhone. just getting boring nothing new fast enough i like to give samsung a try.[/QUOTE]
Samsung, you really need to hire English-speaking shills before going on English-speaking websites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ein999
its time to move to samsung for faster hardware upgrades
Do you upgrade your phone more than once a year?