I know you've always acted like kind of a d1ck, but really? You actually want thousands of people unemployed simply because they make a competing product? (And yes, I do believe you were serious with your comment.)
I know quite a few people with the means to purchase any phone they wish who purchased an Android phone instead of an iPhone. And they're all much more mentally stable than I am (who owns an iPhone). Of course they're all IT people with the ability to judge tech products better than the average consumer (or rabid Apple fan).
Regarding the going out of business comment, absolutely, yes of course I mean that. There are always casualties in business. I do not care if people lose their jobs. I actually wish for it.
I also don't put much stock into what many "IT" people say or think, and I actually don't really think that many of them have any clue. IT people are the exact type of people that were too stupid to recognize how great the iPad was for example, when it was released. IT people do not set trends or have any influence on what phones sell well, average consumers do. IT people are irrelevant. If it were up to IT people, then iOS devices would not have made such inroads into business as they have.
Such a dangerous mentality. Despite your bong clouded assessment, there will always be a large group of people that will continue buying non-Apple devices regardless of what "cheap" stuff Apple can throw at them. You should be more thankful for competition, otherwise there would have been no advancement in the software and hardware for the past several years.
As for your reaction to the rumored casing: obviously biased. You'd be blasting the hell out of it were any other company's. I'm guessing the Kool-Aid is preventing some people from seeing that this design is a blast from the distant past.
I don't agree with the myth being floated around that less competition equals less innovation. I am fine with less competition.
And my reaction is not just about the rumored casing, because inside that casing, it will be running iOS 7, and that is what is going to make many people want to buy this cheaper iPhone. It's not just about the casing, but rather, what is inside of that casing and the ecosystem that comes with that casing.
What's interesting is how a few dollars' difference in case materials is seen by some people as the primary difference between "cheap" and "high end", even if the internals stayed the same.
If that were the only difference, then people will really start wondering why they should pay hundreds extra for some glass and aluminum that they usually buy another protective case for, anyway.
So it seems like that there would be more differences to lower the build price. Anyone have some guesses or suggestions as to what they might be?
Obviously, less memory and a slower CPU is one possibility. Would they also go backwards with the display, or is that not a possibility?
Thoughts?
I don't believe that the differences in cost would be as insignificant as most might think. Apple is using new high precision manufacturing to build the iPhone 5. Whatever techniques are being used I'm sure they're much more costly than plastic molding, which has been in use for many, many years.
I agree though, it's not enough to drop costs to levels people are predicting. I don't think the internals will be THAT much different, but I would guess, 3G only, A5 SoC, 8GB storage, 512MB RAM, and limited software features as well (no Siri, AirDrop, etc.), including an extremely limited AppStore, if one at all (huge opportunity for up-selling later). It would still have access to iTunes though, for content sales.
Display would remain Retina (iOS 7 makes extensive use of the higher density) but probably not the same display.
I think a lot of the usual suspects here will change their tune on the colors when they see the 4Q earnings report and stock price. Sure, the colors are not tech-geek friendly, but then again, color never is. The muted colors are really the only way Apple could have gone, the Nokia Lumia's bright color scheme quickly looks cheap, while these are a bit more sophisticated.
While I think the black and white versions of these are going to far outsell the yellow and green ones, I will tell you right now that this will be the highest selling iPhone model in Apple history. It would have been ridiculous to try and sell the 5 with aluminum body as the discount model once the 4 and 4s were discontinued. This makes all the sense in the world and reassures me that Tim on the ball.
- outside of Heavy Metal bands, designers have traditionally always considered the black & red combination, "tacky."
- black & yellow has also traditionally been considered garish, which is why black and yellow stripes are used for "warning" signs.
The intense contrast when black is used together with a bright primary colour is what makes these combinations "pop" for the average person, but the same reason why artists and designers generally avoid them, because they are sort of an assault on the eyeballs in general.
Such a dangerous mentality. Despite your bong clouded assessment, there will always be a large group of people that will continue buying non-Apple devices regardless of what "cheap" stuff Apple can throw at them. You should be more thankful for competition, otherwise there would have been no advancement in the software and hardware for the past several years.
As for your reaction to the rumored casing: obviously biased. You'd be blasting the hell out of it were any other company's. I'm guessing the Kool-Aid is preventing some people from seeing that this design is a blast from the distant past.
Ok to your first point, second not so much.
It's a different shape, see? Shape is a very big deal. No one has done this shape in plastic before, as far as I know.
I think a lot of the usual suspects here will change their tune on the colors when they see the 4Q earnings report and stock price. Sure, the colors are not tech-geek friendly, but then again, color never is. The muted colors are really the only way Apple could have gone, the Nokia Lumia's bright color scheme quickly looks cheap, while these are a bit more sophisticated.
While I think the black and white versions of these are going to far outsell the yellow and green ones, I will tell you right now that this will be the highest selling iPhone model in Apple history. It would have been ridiculous to try and sell the 5 with aluminum body as the discount model once the 4 and 4s were discontinued. This makes all the sense in the world and reassures me that Tim on the ball.
Your line of thinking on this 5S-vs.-5plastic question, and its success, makes a lot of sense to me.
- outside of Heavy Metal bands, designers have traditionally always considered the black & red combination, "tacky."
- black & yellow has also traditionally been considered garish, which is why black and yellow stripes are used for "warning" signs.
The intense contrast when black is used together with a bright primary colour is what makes these combinations "pop" for the average person, but the same reason why artists and designers generally avoid them, because they are sort of an assault on the eyeballs in general.
Ok, I think that if they make this into the new iPhone5 for the budget-conscious, it will be the same dimensions and internals of the existing iPhone 5. The reason for that is there is minimal amount of engineering that will be required to make that happen. That way they can put the higher spec-ed items into the iPhone 5s. I do not think that they will make it with the smaller screen (like the 4/4S), and I don't think that they will make it without a Retina Display. They have put way too much marketing and effort to popularize their version of the 4" screen.
Now, I think that they may try to do this:
Candy-Colored iPhone 5: ($399 unsubsidized, Free with 2 year contract)
16GB Storage
A6 Processor
Retina Display
Thunderbolt
5 colors
iPhone 5S: ($649/$749/$849 unsubsidized, $199/$299/$399 with 2 year contract)
32/64/128GB Storage
Dual Core A6X
Retina Display
Thunderbolt
Universal (like the 4S was)
etc.
The only reason why I bumped up the storage amount is because as more and more apps consume more space, more space is needed to have it all on your phone. After all, they now offer a 128GB version of the iPad, so why not on the iPhone 5S?
Ok, I think that if they make this into the new iPhone5 for the budget-conscious, it will be the same dimensions and internals of the existing iPhone 5. The reason for that is there is minimal amount of engineering that will be required to make that happen. That way they can put the higher spec-ed items into the iPhone 5s. I do not think that they will make it with the smaller screen (like the 4/4S), and I don't think that they will make it without a Retina Display. They have put way too much marketing and effort to popularize their version of the 4" screen.
Now, I think that they may try to do this:
Candy-Colored iPhone 5: ($399 unsubsidized, Free with 2 year contract)
16GB Storage
A6 Processor
Retina Display
Thunderbolt
5 colors
iPhone 5S: ($649/$749/$849 unsubsidized, $199/$299/$399 with 2 year contract)
32/64/128GB Storage
Dual Core A6X
Retina Display
Thunderbolt
Universal (like the 4S was)
etc.
The only reason why I bumped up the storage amount is because as more and more apps consume more space, more space is needed to have it all on your phone. After all, they now offer a 128GB version of the iPad, so why not on the iPhone 5S?
How are they going to shave $150 off the price of the iPhone 5 assuming it would have been sold for $549 this year.
I don't think a plastic case alone will be enough to justify the discount.
How are they going to shave $150 off the price of the iPhone 5 assuming it would have been sold for $549 this year.
I don't think a plastic case alone will be enough to justify the discount.
So are you suggesting they keep it intact with the expensive return prone aluminum case and sell it at a discount now that the iPhone 4 4s is discontinued? What other options are there? The iPhone 4s has run it's course as the discount model.
Does nobody else notice the letter "D" scrawled on the internal metal plate, visible on the blue and green models? What could the "D" stand for? Delete Discontinued Discard Defective Destroy Dummy Decoy Distraction ?
How are they going to shave $150 off the price of the iPhone 5 assuming it would have been sold for $549 this year.
I don't think a plastic case alone will be enough to justify the discount.
Actually, that is even simpler than it sounds. Part of that cost is the engineering costs that went into making that phone. Those costs are no longer there (or dramatically reduced) since it is a known and setup process. Then you have the reduction of costs for the backing. The current iP5 has that full metallic body that takes a lot to mill down into the right shape. This new one looks to be a molded plastic chassis, which is a whole lot simpler to produce both in scale and speed. So the combination of both of those factors is why I think they could bring it down to the price point I suggest.
So are you suggesting they keep it intact with the expensive return prone aluminum case and sell it at a discount now that the iPhone 4 4s is discontinued? What other options are there? The iPhone 4s has run it's course as the discount model.
I'm more or less suggesting that switching to a plastic case alone won't reduce the price 30-40%.
I'd rather Apple retain their margins than giving these plastic phones away.
Actually, that is even simpler than it sounds. Part of that cost is the engineering costs that went into making that phone. Those costs are no longer there (or dramatically reduced) since it is a known and setup process. Then you have the reduction of costs for the backing. The current iP5 has that full metallic body that takes a lot to mill down into the right shape. This new one looks to be a molded plastic chassis, which is a whole lot simpler to produce both in scale and speed. So the combination of both of those factors is why I think they could bring it down to the price point I suggest.
Well Apple will have to make all new dedicated lines to produce these plastic phones so it's not like there is no added manufacturing cost for these. An with the colors there are different dye processes that add complexity.
I agree the cost of production and simplicity would be better than the 5 but I still don't see the massive 30-40% reduction on the end price without other features or specs being reduced a bit. But we'll see what happens I guess.
Tim Cook is the supply chain master so he's probably more than smart enough to figure out how Apple can make a reduced price phone and still make a profit on it.
Such a dangerous mentality. Despite your bong clouded assessment, there will always be a large group of people that will continue buying non-Apple devices regardless of what "cheap" stuff Apple can throw at them. You should be more thankful for competition, otherwise there would have been no advancement in the software and hardware for the past several years.
As for your reaction to the rumored casing: obviously biased. You'd be blasting the hell out of it were any other company's. I'm guessing the Kool-Aid is preventing some people from seeing that this design is a blast from the distant past.
Your comment is an insult to bong users.... ...who on the whole are in no way as aggressive, angry, mean-spirited and purposefully tweaky as this dude.... ...he's much more "methy."
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou
The current iphone display, while being of good quality, is very low tech. The new AMOLED, OLED, super LCD and IGZO screens now offer the same color quality for lower power consomption. So I am hoping the new high end phone will move to a more modern screen tech and the current screens will be used on the low cost phones. I dont see Apple going with a lower resolution phone than this. They could also keep the current A6 on that thing. The screen and the A6 capacity are all in place. imo the current iphone 5 model will be discontinued when the new model launches. Apple needs to cut on the components that drive the price up and hurts there margins. what will it be is a good question.
Not AMOLED or OLED at least. Apple's current screens are all battery friendly to the new oh-so-much white iOS 7 but would be a huge drain on the screen tech in the Galaxy (and other Android) lines. One Mac columnist claims that's one of the reasons Apple chose the new design direction: i.e., the makers of all those "higher than Retina" screens won't be able to duplicate the look and feel with anything close to the same battery life....
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius
I know you've always acted like kind of a d1ck, but really? You actually want thousands of people unemployed simply because they make a competing product? (And yes, I do believe you were serious with your comment.)
I know quite a few people with the means to purchase any phone they wish who purchased an Android phone instead of an iPhone. And they're all much more mentally stable than I am (who owns an iPhone). Of course they're all IT people with the ability to judge tech products better than the average consumer (or rabid Apple fan).
Regarding the going out of business comment, absolutely, yes of course I mean that. There are always casualties in business. I do not care if people lose their jobs. I actually wish for it.
I also don't put much stock into what many "IT" people say or think, and I actually don't really think that many of them have any clue. IT people are the exact type of people that were too stupid to recognize how great the iPad was for example, when it was released. IT people do not set trends or have any influence on what phones sell well, average consumers do. IT people are irrelevant. If it were up to IT people, then iOS devices would not have made such inroads into business as they have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42
Such a dangerous mentality. Despite your bong clouded assessment, there will always be a large group of people that will continue buying non-Apple devices regardless of what "cheap" stuff Apple can throw at them. You should be more thankful for competition, otherwise there would have been no advancement in the software and hardware for the past several years.
As for your reaction to the rumored casing: obviously biased. You'd be blasting the hell out of it were any other company's. I'm guessing the Kool-Aid is preventing some people from seeing that this design is a blast from the distant past.
I don't agree with the myth being floated around that less competition equals less innovation. I am fine with less competition.
And my reaction is not just about the rumored casing, because inside that casing, it will be running iOS 7, and that is what is going to make many people want to buy this cheaper iPhone. It's not just about the casing, but rather, what is inside of that casing and the ecosystem that comes with that casing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
What's interesting is how a few dollars' difference in case materials is seen by some people as the primary difference between "cheap" and "high end", even if the internals stayed the same.
If that were the only difference, then people will really start wondering why they should pay hundreds extra for some glass and aluminum that they usually buy another protective case for, anyway.
So it seems like that there would be more differences to lower the build price. Anyone have some guesses or suggestions as to what they might be?
Obviously, less memory and a slower CPU is one possibility. Would they also go backwards with the display, or is that not a possibility?
Thoughts?
I don't believe that the differences in cost would be as insignificant as most might think. Apple is using new high precision manufacturing to build the iPhone 5. Whatever techniques are being used I'm sure they're much more costly than plastic molding, which has been in use for many, many years.
I agree though, it's not enough to drop costs to levels people are predicting. I don't think the internals will be THAT much different, but I would guess, 3G only, A5 SoC, 8GB storage, 512MB RAM, and limited software features as well (no Siri, AirDrop, etc.), including an extremely limited AppStore, if one at all (huge opportunity for up-selling later). It would still have access to iTunes though, for content sales.
Display would remain Retina (iOS 7 makes extensive use of the higher density) but probably not the same display.
My guess anyway.
I think a lot of the usual suspects here will change their tune on the colors when they see the 4Q earnings report and stock price. Sure, the colors are not tech-geek friendly, but then again, color never is. The muted colors are really the only way Apple could have gone, the Nokia Lumia's bright color scheme quickly looks cheap, while these are a bit more sophisticated.
While I think the black and white versions of these are going to far outsell the yellow and green ones, I will tell you right now that this will be the highest selling iPhone model in Apple history. It would have been ridiculous to try and sell the 5 with aluminum body as the discount model once the 4 and 4s were discontinued. This makes all the sense in the world and reassures me that Tim on the ball.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
that's a matter of personal preference I guess.
Not entirely.
- outside of Heavy Metal bands, designers have traditionally always considered the black & red combination, "tacky."
- black & yellow has also traditionally been considered garish, which is why black and yellow stripes are used for "warning" signs.
The intense contrast when black is used together with a bright primary colour is what makes these combinations "pop" for the average person, but the same reason why artists and designers generally avoid them, because they are sort of an assault on the eyeballs in general.
Ok to your first point, second not so much.
It's a different shape, see? Shape is a very big deal. No one has done this shape in plastic before, as far as I know.
Your line of thinking on this 5S-vs.-5plastic question, and its success, makes a lot of sense to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Not entirely.
- outside of Heavy Metal bands, designers have traditionally always considered the black & red combination, "tacky."
- black & yellow has also traditionally been considered garish, which is why black and yellow stripes are used for "warning" signs.
The intense contrast when black is used together with a bright primary colour is what makes these combinations "pop" for the average person, but the same reason why artists and designers generally avoid them, because they are sort of an assault on the eyeballs in general.
Ding Ding Ding, Winner!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
- outside of Heavy Metal bands, designers have traditionally always considered the black & red combination, "tacky."
I remember the Apple U2 iPod, that was black & red.
Ok, I think that if they make this into the new iPhone5 for the budget-conscious, it will be the same dimensions and internals of the existing iPhone 5. The reason for that is there is minimal amount of engineering that will be required to make that happen. That way they can put the higher spec-ed items into the iPhone 5s. I do not think that they will make it with the smaller screen (like the 4/4S), and I don't think that they will make it without a Retina Display. They have put way too much marketing and effort to popularize their version of the 4" screen.
Now, I think that they may try to do this:
Candy-Colored iPhone 5: ($399 unsubsidized, Free with 2 year contract)
16GB Storage
A6 Processor
Retina Display
Thunderbolt
5 colors
iPhone 5S: ($649/$749/$849 unsubsidized, $199/$299/$399 with 2 year contract)
32/64/128GB Storage
Dual Core A6X
Retina Display
Thunderbolt
Universal (like the 4S was)
etc.
The only reason why I bumped up the storage amount is because as more and more apps consume more space, more space is needed to have it all on your phone. After all, they now offer a 128GB version of the iPad, so why not on the iPhone 5S?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber
There is absolutely no way, no way, Apple will ever downgrade an existing model and call it the same thing.
"The colorful new iPhone 5", yeah I can see it. It has a nice ring to it too. And it doesn't come off as a downgrade, but as an added feature.
How are they going to shave $150 off the price of the iPhone 5 assuming it would have been sold for $549 this year.
I don't think a plastic case alone will be enough to justify the discount.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook
How are they going to shave $150 off the price of the iPhone 5 assuming it would have been sold for $549 this year.
I don't think a plastic case alone will be enough to justify the discount.
So are you suggesting they keep it intact with the expensive return prone aluminum case and sell it at a discount now that the iPhone 4 4s is discontinued? What other options are there? The iPhone 4s has run it's course as the discount model.
What could the "D" stand for?
Delete
Discontinued
Discard
Defective
Destroy
Dummy
Decoy
Distraction
?
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook
How are they going to shave $150 off the price of the iPhone 5 assuming it would have been sold for $549 this year.
I don't think a plastic case alone will be enough to justify the discount.
Actually, that is even simpler than it sounds. Part of that cost is the engineering costs that went into making that phone. Those costs are no longer there (or dramatically reduced) since it is a known and setup process. Then you have the reduction of costs for the backing. The current iP5 has that full metallic body that takes a lot to mill down into the right shape. This new one looks to be a molded plastic chassis, which is a whole lot simpler to produce both in scale and speed. So the combination of both of those factors is why I think they could bring it down to the price point I suggest.
I'm more or less suggesting that switching to a plastic case alone won't reduce the price 30-40%.
I'd rather Apple retain their margins than giving these plastic phones away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook
I'm more or less suggesting that switching to a plastic case alone won't reduce the price 30-40%.
I'd rather Apple retain their margins than giving these plastic phones away.
I agree. And I think the redesigned plastic iPhone 5 will do just that. These will not be "cheap" as they have stated time and again.
Well Apple will have to make all new dedicated lines to produce these plastic phones so it's not like there is no added manufacturing cost for these. An with the colors there are different dye processes that add complexity.
I agree the cost of production and simplicity would be better than the 5 but I still don't see the massive 30-40% reduction on the end price without other features or specs being reduced a bit. But we'll see what happens I guess.
Tim Cook is the supply chain master so he's probably more than smart enough to figure out how Apple can make a reduced price phone and still make a profit on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42
Such a dangerous mentality. Despite your bong clouded assessment, there will always be a large group of people that will continue buying non-Apple devices regardless of what "cheap" stuff Apple can throw at them. You should be more thankful for competition, otherwise there would have been no advancement in the software and hardware for the past several years.
As for your reaction to the rumored casing: obviously biased. You'd be blasting the hell out of it were any other company's. I'm guessing the Kool-Aid is preventing some people from seeing that this design is a blast from the distant past.
Your comment is an insult to bong users.... ...who on the whole are in no way as aggressive, angry, mean-spirited and purposefully tweaky as this dude.... ...he's much more "methy."
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou
The current iphone display, while being of good quality, is very low tech. The new AMOLED, OLED, super LCD and IGZO screens now offer the same color quality for lower power consomption. So I am hoping the new high end phone will move to a more modern screen tech and the current screens will be used on the low cost phones. I dont see Apple going with a lower resolution phone than this. They could also keep the current A6 on that thing. The screen and the A6 capacity are all in place. imo the current iphone 5 model will be discontinued when the new model launches. Apple needs to cut on the components that drive the price up and hurts there margins. what will it be is a good question.
Not AMOLED or OLED at least. Apple's current screens are all battery friendly to the new oh-so-much white iOS 7 but would be a huge drain on the screen tech in the Galaxy (and other Android) lines. One Mac columnist claims that's one of the reasons Apple chose the new design direction: i.e., the makers of all those "higher than Retina" screens won't be able to duplicate the look and feel with anything close to the same battery life....