It is pretty simple, and that's why you can't delete them.
You wouldn't actually be stuck if you deleted all web browsers, because you still have an app store full of browsers, and no one is suggesting that the user be able to delete the app store. There are good arguments for why apple should make it hard for the average user to delete safari. But there's no reason to panic if you find yourself without a browser.
I can understand no carrier logos but what's the difference between a company that pre installs proprietary software on the iPhones it gives to it's employees and what NTT wants to do? It's just on a grander scale. Google Play does allow carrier specific apps but I'm guessing that the app store does not.
App Store does allow third party carrier software. The difference is I don't think the majority of NTT users uses it. NTT just wants to piggy back on the iPhone's success.
Not at all. I'm not saying get rid of Safari, Mail and the others. I'm just saying allow the user to delete them if they want. And furthermore, give the user a services framework so that they can effectively replace them with other apps fulfilling similar functional purposes from the app store.
What if a novice accidentally deletes them? Do you tell them "tough sh1t?" They probably want to check email and surf the web. They don't care about the App Store so they wouldn't know where to search.
I missed the reason Apple "should" allow deletion of their apps? Seems to me they absolutely "should" keep control of their ecosystem. Allow third party browsers but keep the default goto as Safari. Allow map apps but keep the goto imaps. Why would Apple want to do it any differently?
They probably don't, which is why they haven't. Doesn't stop some people wanting them to though. You are free to delete bundled apps and change default apps on the Mac. That's what I'd like on the iPhone.
Though this has all been a bit extrapolated from the original premise that some of the stock apps are little more than bloatware which few people use - I'm thinking mainly of Stocks, Weather, Compass and Voice Memos. It would be nice if Apple allowed deletion of these.
Safari, Mail and Maps are a bit more complicated and political, clearly.
I can understand no carrier logos but what's the difference between a company that pre installs proprietary software on the iPhones it gives to it's employees and what NTT wants to do? It's just on a grander scale. Google Play does allow carrier specific apps but I'm guessing that the app store does not.
It's not just a grander scale, even though that's what your argument hinges on. In addition to a difference of degree, it's also a difference of kind. The apps that companies install for employee use are not part of the general smartphone experience, but are specific to the companies business.
And, yes, carrier specific apps exist today in the App Store; they aren't forbidding them from offering apps, just from taking over the entire user experience on the phone.
They probably don't, which is why they haven't. Doesn't stop some people wanting them to though. You are free to delete bundled apps and change default apps on the Mac. That's what I'd like on the iPhone.
Though this has all been a bit extrapolated from the original premise that some of the stock apps are little more than bloatware which few people use - I'm thinking mainly of Stocks, Weather, Compass and Voice Memos. It would be nice if Apple allowed deletion of these.
Safari, Mail and Maps are a bit more complicated and political, clearly.
It's all part of the same argument: The stock apps as a whole guarantee a distinct user experience out of the box, and belong in the firmware. Apple has other apps that are not part of that experience that can be downloaded and installed from the App Store, and deleted. But, as pointed out, you haven't made an argument as to why your personal desires would be a good thing for Apple or the majority of users.
That's not what Apple is about. End of discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley
They probably don't, which is why they haven't. Doesn't stop some people wanting them to though. You are free to delete bundled apps and change default apps on the Mac. That's what I'd like on the iPhone.
Though this has all been a bit extrapolated from the original premise that some of the stock apps are little more than bloatware which few people use - I'm thinking mainly of Stocks, Weather, Compass and Voice Memos. It would be nice if Apple allowed deletion of these.
Safari, Mail and Maps are a bit more complicated and political, clearly.
If a stock app can't be deleted, then maybe just stick in a folder entitled junk i don't use and then put the folder on the last page, so you have your first pages of icons/folders with just the more important apps. I'm constantly rearranging my icons to suit the shifts in what apps i use. It doesn't take long to do it.
I'd argue that the Stocks app in particular probably isn't even ever opened by a significant portion of the user base - my family and friends have no interest in such things and no use for it. What advantage does its perpetuity hold for them? Being able to delete it offers a cleaner experience for them.
The same is broadly true to slightly varying degrees of Weather, Compass and Voice Memos.
Safari, Mail and Maps are more of a niche case.
I'd be of the opinion that Find My iPhone offers much more utility to the average user and should be part of the firmware. But some people might not want that either, so they should have the option of deleting it. This is just about options; I have no idea why you're so against it.
If a stock app can't be deleted, then maybe just stick in a folder entitled junk i don't use and then put the folder on the last page, so you have your first pages of icons/folders with just the more important apps. I'm constantly rearranging my icons to suit the shifts in what apps i use. It doesn't take long to do it.
And yet you're "constantly" doing it? Must be irritating as hell. I know, because it's what I do do, and it annoys me. Surely you can see the appeal in deleting them off the phone completely? Why wouldn't you want that?
I'm finding this counter-argument completely bizarre.
There's a chasm between, "I'd argue that," and, "The same is broadly true." The former is idle speculation based on unsubstantiated opinion, the latter an assertion of fact. You haven't even strung a line across that chasm, let alone bridged it.
And yet you're "constantly" doing it? Must be irritating as hell. I know, because it's what I do do, and it annoys me. Surely you can see the appeal in deleting them off the phone completely? Why wouldn't you want that?
I'm finding this counter-argument completely bizarre.
That's because you chose to misinterpret "constantly" as referring to putting the apps he infrequently or never accesses rather than the other apps on the phone that he does. The rest of your post is based on that willful misinterpretation, so nothing more than a disingenuous attempt to score cheap points.
I'm beginning to see a trend with your "arguments".
There's a chasm between, "I'd argue that," and, "The same is broadly true." The former is idle speculation based on unsubstantiated opinion, the latter an assertion of fact. You haven't even strung a line across that chasm, let alone bridged it.
I'd argue that the same is broadly true.
Can you actually argue the point instead of pedantry?
That's because you chose to misinterpret "constantly" as referring to putting the apps he infrequently or never accesses rather than the other apps on the phone that he does. The rest of your post is based on that willful misinterpretation, so nothing more than a disingenuous attempt to score cheap points.
I'm beginning to see a trend with your "arguments".
I actually misread his post. Apologies for that.
But beyond the misunderstanding of the first two sentences, I'd stand by the rest of the post.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley
... You can't browse the web without a browser, and you can't email without an email client. Pretty simple. ...
It is pretty simple, and that's why you can't delete them.
Whatever man, I haven't got the energy to argue with stubborn fools who change their argument at every turn.
It's not an unreasonable request. It's clearly not a priority request either. Doesn't stop me wanting.
That's not what Apple is about. End of discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
It is pretty simple, and that's why you can't delete them.
You wouldn't actually be stuck if you deleted all web browsers, because you still have an app store full of browsers, and no one is suggesting that the user be able to delete the app store. There are good arguments for why apple should make it hard for the average user to delete safari. But there's no reason to panic if you find yourself without a browser.
Sure they are. Do people look for and download dozens if not hundreds of apps instantaneously? No, it's usually a process that takes hours.
"not what Apple is about"
I must have imagined that time when I installed a third party app then.
I must have imagined that time when I changed my default browser on my Mac.
I must have imagined that time when I did just about anything ever.
Don't say such ridiculous things.
App Store does allow third party carrier software. The difference is I don't think the majority of NTT users uses it. NTT just wants to piggy back on the iPhone's success.
What if a novice accidentally deletes them? Do you tell them "tough sh1t?" They probably want to check email and surf the web. They don't care about the App Store so they wouldn't know where to search.
Read my posts before replying to them in the future.
They probably don't, which is why they haven't. Doesn't stop some people wanting them to though. You are free to delete bundled apps and change default apps on the Mac. That's what I'd like on the iPhone.
Though this has all been a bit extrapolated from the original premise that some of the stock apps are little more than bloatware which few people use - I'm thinking mainly of Stocks, Weather, Compass and Voice Memos. It would be nice if Apple allowed deletion of these.
Safari, Mail and Maps are a bit more complicated and political, clearly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman
I can understand no carrier logos but what's the difference between a company that pre installs proprietary software on the iPhones it gives to it's employees and what NTT wants to do? It's just on a grander scale. Google Play does allow carrier specific apps but I'm guessing that the app store does not.
It's not just a grander scale, even though that's what your argument hinges on. In addition to a difference of degree, it's also a difference of kind. The apps that companies install for employee use are not part of the general smartphone experience, but are specific to the companies business.
And, yes, carrier specific apps exist today in the App Store; they aren't forbidding them from offering apps, just from taking over the entire user experience on the phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley
They probably don't, which is why they haven't. Doesn't stop some people wanting them to though. You are free to delete bundled apps and change default apps on the Mac. That's what I'd like on the iPhone.
Though this has all been a bit extrapolated from the original premise that some of the stock apps are little more than bloatware which few people use - I'm thinking mainly of Stocks, Weather, Compass and Voice Memos. It would be nice if Apple allowed deletion of these.
Safari, Mail and Maps are a bit more complicated and political, clearly.
It's all part of the same argument: The stock apps as a whole guarantee a distinct user experience out of the box, and belong in the firmware. Apple has other apps that are not part of that experience that can be downloaded and installed from the App Store, and deleted. But, as pointed out, you haven't made an argument as to why your personal desires would be a good thing for Apple or the majority of users.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman
Sure they are. Do people look for and download dozens if not hundreds of apps instantaneously? No, it's usually a process that takes hours.
Which is exactly why certain apps ought to be baked into the firmware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
That's not what Apple is about. End of discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley
They probably don't, which is why they haven't. Doesn't stop some people wanting them to though. You are free to delete bundled apps and change default apps on the Mac. That's what I'd like on the iPhone.
Though this has all been a bit extrapolated from the original premise that some of the stock apps are little more than bloatware which few people use - I'm thinking mainly of Stocks, Weather, Compass and Voice Memos. It would be nice if Apple allowed deletion of these.
Safari, Mail and Maps are a bit more complicated and political, clearly.
If a stock app can't be deleted, then maybe just stick in a folder entitled junk i don't use and then put the folder on the last page, so you have your first pages of icons/folders with just the more important apps. I'm constantly rearranging my icons to suit the shifts in what apps i use. It doesn't take long to do it.
I'd argue that the Stocks app in particular probably isn't even ever opened by a significant portion of the user base - my family and friends have no interest in such things and no use for it. What advantage does its perpetuity hold for them? Being able to delete it offers a cleaner experience for them.
The same is broadly true to slightly varying degrees of Weather, Compass and Voice Memos.
Safari, Mail and Maps are more of a niche case.
I'd be of the opinion that Find My iPhone offers much more utility to the average user and should be part of the firmware. But some people might not want that either, so they should have the option of deleting it. This is just about options; I have no idea why you're so against it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
If a stock app can't be deleted, then maybe just stick in a folder entitled junk i don't use and then put the folder on the last page, so you have your first pages of icons/folders with just the more important apps. I'm constantly rearranging my icons to suit the shifts in what apps i use. It doesn't take long to do it.
And yet you're "constantly" doing it? Must be irritating as hell. I know, because it's what I do do, and it annoys me. Surely you can see the appeal in deleting them off the phone completely? Why wouldn't you want that?
I'm finding this counter-argument completely bizarre.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley
I'd argue that ...
... The same is broadly true ...
There's a chasm between, "I'd argue that," and, "The same is broadly true." The former is idle speculation based on unsubstantiated opinion, the latter an assertion of fact. You haven't even strung a line across that chasm, let alone bridged it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley
And yet you're "constantly" doing it? Must be irritating as hell. I know, because it's what I do do, and it annoys me. Surely you can see the appeal in deleting them off the phone completely? Why wouldn't you want that?
I'm finding this counter-argument completely bizarre.
That's because you chose to misinterpret "constantly" as referring to putting the apps he infrequently or never accesses rather than the other apps on the phone that he does. The rest of your post is based on that willful misinterpretation, so nothing more than a disingenuous attempt to score cheap points.
I'm beginning to see a trend with your "arguments".
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
There's a chasm between, "I'd argue that," and, "The same is broadly true." The former is idle speculation based on unsubstantiated opinion, the latter an assertion of fact. You haven't even strung a line across that chasm, let alone bridged it.
I'd argue that the same is broadly true.
Can you actually argue the point instead of pedantry?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
That's because you chose to misinterpret "constantly" as referring to putting the apps he infrequently or never accesses rather than the other apps on the phone that he does. The rest of your post is based on that willful misinterpretation, so nothing more than a disingenuous attempt to score cheap points.
I'm beginning to see a trend with your "arguments".
I actually misread his post. Apologies for that.
But beyond the misunderstanding of the first two sentences, I'd stand by the rest of the post.
What trend? Enlighten me.