A great win for Apple and even bigger win for students in LA. Tablets are a great learning resource. The only people I feel for are the taxpayers in cA, $678 per iPad even with software when buying in that quantity just shows how terribad government workers are at negotiating. No wonder they are broke.
By having taxpayers subsidize the bill to give out free tablets to kids, they'll be less likely to go out and buy competitors products too.
Still looking forward to the 'Bullies beat Billy up and took his iPad' headline though
I love Apple products. I really do. But This is a waste of money. I have family that works in LAUSD and they'll be the first to tell you that rather than buying iPads for kids, a ton of which will be broken and mistreated, they would rather have school supplies and a proper staff.
My mom's school isn't even able to afford a janitor to clean the bathrooms. The kids themselves avoid using them. But hey, they get iPads! Yay! This is such a great example of ignorance at the top.
Are there any reports to be found that an Android tablet bulk order has been placed by...well, any company or institution? Government?
I think there was a small school that was playing around with Chromebooks, but I don't know any details other than that. I don't know where they got to the idea that that thing resembles anything useful, but apparently someone bought a few of them.
I love Apple products. I really do. But This is a waste of money. I have family that works in LAUSD and they'll be the first to tell you that rather than buying iPads for kids, a ton of which will be broken and mistreated, they would rather have school supplies and a proper staff.
My mom's school isn't even able to afford a janitor to clean the bathrooms. The kids themselves avoid using them. But hey, they get iPads! Yay! This is such a great example of ignorance at the top.
I think it's because books are too expensive. Have you seen the prices they charge for text books? HIghway robbery.
A great win for Apple and even bigger win for students in LA. Tablets are a great learning resource. The only people I feel for are the taxpayers in cA, $678 per iPad even with software when buying in that quantity just shows how terribad government workers are at negotiating. No wonder they are broke.
By having taxpayers subsidize the bill to give out free tablets to kids, they'll be less likely to go out and buy competitors products too.
Still looking forward to the 'Bullies beat Billy up and took his iPad' headline though
If I were a parent, I'd rather have the school pay for them, but if i didn't have kids, then maybe I wouldn't. I think it's a lot cheaper than buying kids text books. Hard cover text books are outrageously priced. Probably costs less than buying each kid text books.
I love Apple products. I really do. But This is a waste of money. I have family that works in LAUSD and they'll be the first to tell you that rather than buying iPads for kids, a ton of which will be broken and mistreated, they would rather have school supplies and a proper staff.
My mom's school isn't even able to afford a janitor to clean the bathrooms. The kids themselves avoid using them. But hey, they get iPads! Yay! This is such a great example of ignorance at the top.
Paper textbooks that have to be purchased at high cost, warehoused in the off season at high cost, replaced when obsolete in a year at high cost for the replacement: well..., costing it out I fully expect the savings will be there to shift off the textbook budget and add to personnel or other supplies.
The "top" is attempting to find savings in the system and that's not a bad thing.
That remains to be seen. So far most textbook publishers charge almost as much for etexts as for textbooks, and a lot of their justification for the way-ahead-of-inflation increases in textbook costs have to do with the development of electronic editions.
I know this is true for the college market, and a quick inspection of the K-12 sites for a couple publishers suggests that it's true for them, too. And they can't make their students bear the costs of the books.
I know a couple of college students and purchasing text books for 4 classes cost about $900. Which is ridiculous. IF the prices for ebooks are the same as hard cover text books, then maybe if the kids use an iPad due to it being thinner, plus they can use applications in addition to just reading the text books, plus they are a lot less to carry than a back pack full of books.
I know a couple of college students and purchasing text books for 4 classes cost about $900. Which is ridiculous. IF the prices for ebooks are the same as hard cover text books, then maybe if the kids use an iPad due to it being thinner, plus they can use applications in addition to just reading the text books, plus they are a lot less to carry than a back pack full of books.
"The Mountain View, Calif., tech giant said it will start renting out digital school textbooks in early August, just in time for school. And renting through Google could save students quite a bit of money.
"You can rent textbooks for six months at up to 80% off the cost of a typical print textbook," a Google spokesman told The Times. P
By going into the Google Play store, users can rent a textbook and then view it in the Google Play Books app, on Android and Apple iOS devices.
Google said it doesn't yet have an exact number for how large it's catalog will be, but the company said it will be a "comprehensive collection." Textbooks from Cengage, Wiley, Pearson, McGraw-Hill, Macmillan and others will be included, the company said."
That I understand, but a book doesn't break if I drop it. I guess what I'm trying to say is, while this may be well intentioned the money would be better spent in other areas that are in dire need of funding, like my example above.
To give another example... LAUSD, which provides free breakfast for any kid who wants it, is now requiring that all kids eat breakfast in the classroom as soon as class starts. Which means 1) less time learning. 2) the teacher is now his/her own janitor, as if they didn't have enough to do. 3) have you been to grade school cafeteria? All we need now in our classrooms are ants! The breakfasts are already free!!! My point being, classic LAUSD pouring energy in the wrong place.
Still looking forward to the 'Bullies beat Billy up and took his iPad' headline though
Nah. Billy might get beat up, but only for his iPhone - the bullies are given their own iPad as well. Why beat up someone just to get what you already have?
"The Mountain View, Calif., tech giant said it will start renting out digital school textbooks in early August, just in time for school. And renting through Google could save students quite a bit of money.
"You can rent textbooks for six months at up to 80% off the cost of a typical print textbook," a Google spokesman told The Times. P
By going into the Google Play store, users can rent a textbook and then view it in the Google Play Books app, on Android and Apple iOS devices.
Google said it doesn't yet have an exact number for how large it's catalog will be, but the company said it will be a "comprehensive collection." Textbooks from Cengage, Wiley, Pearson, McGraw-Hill, Macmillan and others will be included, the company said."
A great win for Apple and even bigger win for students in LA. Tablets are a great learning resource. The only people I feel for are the taxpayers in cA, $678 per iPad even with software when buying in that quantity just shows how terribad government workers are at negotiating. No wonder they are broke.
By having taxpayers subsidize the bill to give out free tablets to kids, they'll be less likely to go out and buy competitors products too.
Still looking forward to the 'Bullies beat Billy up and took his iPad' headline though
In re "The only people I feel for are the taxpayers in cA, $678 per iPad even with software when buying in that quantity just shows how terribad government workers are at negotiating."
Let's accept the $678 per iPad and step back a little.
Let's assume a 10% replacement rate for lost/stolen/broken iPads:
$678 * 1.10 == $746 per iPad.
Let's assume that the iPads last more than one school year... likely 3, but we'll use 2:
$746 / 2 == $373 per iPad per pupil per year....
If the school year is 8 months, then:
$373 / 8 == $46.63 per pupil per month...
hmmm....
Now let's see how this aligns with what we are currently spend per pupil per year in the US (emphasis, mine):
Costs per Pupil by State
Public Education by state rankings show that the District of Columbia spent the most per pupil at $18,687. The next top five are New York ($18,618), New Jersey ($16,841), Alaska ($15,783), Vermont ($15,274) and Wyoming ($15,169).
The states spending the least on a per-pupil basis are Oklahoma ($7,896), Arizona ($7,848), Idaho ($7,106) and Utah ($6,064).
I wonder what the total number of kids going to K-12 in the world are and what the percentage that are getting iPads. And what the adoption rate is. Like anything, certain schools tend to be trend setters and others seem to sit back and observe what other schools do and then eventually follow.
That I understand, but a book doesn't break if I drop it. I guess what I'm trying to say is, while this may be well intentioned the money would be better spent in other areas that are in dire need of funding, like my example above.
To give another example... LAUSD, which provides free breakfast for any kid who wants it, is now requiring that all kids eat breakfast in the classroom as soon as class starts. Which means 1) less time learning. 2) the teacher is now his/her own janitor, as if they didn't have enough to do. 3) have you been to grade school cafeteria? All we need now in our classrooms are ants! The breakfasts are already free!!! My point being, classic LAUSD pouring energy in the wrong place.
Yes books can break - broken backs, damaged covers, loose pages, torn pages, defaced pages. How do you wear out ebooks? Granted the iPad can be damaged but each student only has one item to be responsible for now instead of a book bag full of expensive books.
Speaking of book bags, they would no longer be needed and could be banned, alleviating some security concerns.
Your other concern seem very valid, but have no bearing on the issue of ipads and textbooks. Just because schools systems have made idiotic choices in the past doesn't mean every idea they have is bad. Even a blind hog can occasionally find an acorn.
I found it interesting that they had to go with Pearson for eBook distribution and publishing.
Apple's iBooks has turned out to be a bit of a failure in K-12. The DRM is simply too strict...a book's DRM is limited to 10 devices, requiring separate Apple IDs. Districts don't want to give every kid an Apple ID - and per Apple's EULA children under 13 are not even allowed to sign up for an Apple ID.
It's a shame too, because Apple's iBooks are (currently) far more interactive than competing publisher's books.
Yes books can break - broken backs, damaged covers, loose pages, torn pages, defaced pages. How do you wear out ebooks? Granted the iPad can be damaged but each student only has one item to be responsible for now instead of a book bag full of expensive books.
Speaking of book bags, they would no longer be needed and could be banned, alleviating some security concerns.
Your other concern seem very valid, but have no bearing on the issue of ipads and textbooks. Just because schools systems have made idiotic choices in the past doesn't mean every idea they have is bad. Even a blind hog can occasionally find an acorn.
What a fantastic waste of money by CA schools. Demonstrating that our educational administrators are completely out of touch with kids and reality. Have they ever been around kids? Have they seen the way kids treat their textbooks? Scratched, banged up, etc. they take a beating that no iPad could survive and keep on teaching. The replacement costs for broken iPads is going to be 50%. Not to mention the distractions from all the mobile games!
Our experience in the past year doesn't match your assumptions. It's a small elementary school, iPads now in grades 5-8:
1 - at the end of the year there was 1 broken iPad (a student dropped an iPad that landed corner-first on another iPad.
1a - Eyeballz work very well to protect iPads. The sole issue is that they have to be taken off when charging the iPad in
the 10-unit charging station.
2 - except for the cracked screen of one, they all appeared like new after the final day of school.
3 - game use has been controlled by managing application through Apple Configurator.
4 - browser based games have been a minor issue so far, and managed by the teacher in the classroom.
5 - students graduating from 8th grade have the option to buy "their" iPad at reduced cost at the end of the year. They pay attention.
Paper book and tablets aren't handled the same way by the students, in our experience.
Comments
A great win for Apple and even bigger win for students in LA. Tablets are a great learning resource. The only people I feel for are the taxpayers in cA, $678 per iPad even with software when buying in that quantity just shows how terribad government workers are at negotiating. No wonder they are broke.
By having taxpayers subsidize the bill to give out free tablets to kids, they'll be less likely to go out and buy competitors products too.
Still looking forward to the 'Bullies beat Billy up and took his iPad' headline though
Yeah... that comment put a smile on my face -- it concisely sums up the article.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Yeah... that comment put a smile on my face -- it concisely sums up the article.
I remember enjoying the MacWorld podcast (Jan, 2013) where Speirs was interviewed by Chris Breen.
http://castroller.com/podcasts/MacworldPodcast/3322210
My mom's school isn't even able to afford a janitor to clean the bathrooms. The kids themselves avoid using them. But hey, they get iPads! Yay! This is such a great example of ignorance at the top.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie
Are there any reports to be found that an Android tablet bulk order has been placed by...well, any company or institution? Government?
I think there was a small school that was playing around with Chromebooks, but I don't know any details other than that. I don't know where they got to the idea that that thing resembles anything useful, but apparently someone bought a few of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjunkie
I love Apple products. I really do. But This is a waste of money. I have family that works in LAUSD and they'll be the first to tell you that rather than buying iPads for kids, a ton of which will be broken and mistreated, they would rather have school supplies and a proper staff.
My mom's school isn't even able to afford a janitor to clean the bathrooms. The kids themselves avoid using them. But hey, they get iPads! Yay! This is such a great example of ignorance at the top.
I think it's because books are too expensive. Have you seen the prices they charge for text books? HIghway robbery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood
A great win for Apple and even bigger win for students in LA. Tablets are a great learning resource. The only people I feel for are the taxpayers in cA, $678 per iPad even with software when buying in that quantity just shows how terribad government workers are at negotiating. No wonder they are broke.
By having taxpayers subsidize the bill to give out free tablets to kids, they'll be less likely to go out and buy competitors products too.
Still looking forward to the 'Bullies beat Billy up and took his iPad' headline though
If I were a parent, I'd rather have the school pay for them, but if i didn't have kids, then maybe I wouldn't. I think it's a lot cheaper than buying kids text books. Hard cover text books are outrageously priced. Probably costs less than buying each kid text books.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjunkie
I love Apple products. I really do. But This is a waste of money. I have family that works in LAUSD and they'll be the first to tell you that rather than buying iPads for kids, a ton of which will be broken and mistreated, they would rather have school supplies and a proper staff.
My mom's school isn't even able to afford a janitor to clean the bathrooms. The kids themselves avoid using them. But hey, they get iPads! Yay! This is such a great example of ignorance at the top.
Paper textbooks that have to be purchased at high cost, warehoused in the off season at high cost, replaced when obsolete in a year at high cost for the replacement: well..., costing it out I fully expect the savings will be there to shift off the textbook budget and add to personnel or other supplies.
The "top" is attempting to find savings in the system and that's not a bad thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor
That remains to be seen. So far most textbook publishers charge almost as much for etexts as for textbooks, and a lot of their justification for the way-ahead-of-inflation increases in textbook costs have to do with the development of electronic editions.
I know this is true for the college market, and a quick inspection of the K-12 sites for a couple publishers suggests that it's true for them, too. And they can't make their students bear the costs of the books.
I know a couple of college students and purchasing text books for 4 classes cost about $900. Which is ridiculous. IF the prices for ebooks are the same as hard cover text books, then maybe if the kids use an iPad due to it being thinner, plus they can use applications in addition to just reading the text books, plus they are a lot less to carry than a back pack full of books.
Then you'd probably like this: Google Play Textbooks, announced yesterday
http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-google-play-textbooks-20130726,0,3877022.story
"The Mountain View, Calif., tech giant said it will start renting out digital school textbooks in early August, just in time for school. And renting through Google could save students quite a bit of money.
"You can rent textbooks for six months at up to 80% off the cost of a typical print textbook," a Google spokesman told The Times. P
By going into the Google Play store, users can rent a textbook and then view it in the Google Play Books app, on Android and Apple iOS devices.
Google said it doesn't yet have an exact number for how large it's catalog will be, but the company said it will be a "comprehensive collection." Textbooks from Cengage, Wiley, Pearson, McGraw-Hill, Macmillan and others will be included, the company said."
Additional Mashable article:
http://mashable.com/2013/07/24/google-play-textbooks/
That I understand, but a book doesn't break if I drop it. I guess what I'm trying to say is, while this may be well intentioned the money would be better spent in other areas that are in dire need of funding, like my example above.
To give another example... LAUSD, which provides free breakfast for any kid who wants it, is now requiring that all kids eat breakfast in the classroom as soon as class starts. Which means 1) less time learning. 2) the teacher is now his/her own janitor, as if they didn't have enough to do. 3) have you been to grade school cafeteria? All we need now in our classrooms are ants! The breakfasts are already free!!! My point being, classic LAUSD pouring energy in the wrong place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood
Still looking forward to the 'Bullies beat Billy up and took his iPad' headline though
Nah. Billy might get beat up, but only for his iPhone - the bullies are given their own iPad as well. Why beat up someone just to get what you already have?
So the combo of Apple's iPad and Google's discounted textbooks would make sense for your college student.
In re "The only people I feel for are the taxpayers in cA, $678 per iPad even with software when buying in that quantity just shows how terribad government workers are at negotiating."
Let's accept the $678 per iPad and step back a little.
Let's assume a 10% replacement rate for lost/stolen/broken iPads:
$678 * 1.10 == $746 per iPad.
Let's assume that the iPads last more than one school year... likely 3, but we'll use 2:
$746 / 2 == $373 per iPad per pupil per year....
If the school year is 8 months, then:
$373 / 8 == $46.63 per pupil per month...
hmmm....
Now let's see how this aligns with what we are currently spend per pupil per year in the US (emphasis, mine):
http://education.cu-portland.edu/blog/classroom-resources/public-education-costs-per-pupil-by-state-rankings/
So, the iPads cost between 373 / 18,616 and 373 / 6,064 -- Or between 2% and 6% of the total current costs per pupil per year...
But even that is too generous! The iPad costs are offset by costs of textbooks (including distribution and warehousing), paper, computer labs...
I agree, if they just throw dollars (iPads) at the problem they won't improve anything... possibly even make things worse.
But, done responsibly there is the potential to improve the quality of education...
Can we afford not to even try?
Thanks for that link! I am about half way through it... Fraser's discussion of cost per student per month made me stop and reply to another post!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjunkie
That I understand, but a book doesn't break if I drop it. I guess what I'm trying to say is, while this may be well intentioned the money would be better spent in other areas that are in dire need of funding, like my example above.
To give another example... LAUSD, which provides free breakfast for any kid who wants it, is now requiring that all kids eat breakfast in the classroom as soon as class starts. Which means 1) less time learning. 2) the teacher is now his/her own janitor, as if they didn't have enough to do. 3) have you been to grade school cafeteria? All we need now in our classrooms are ants! The breakfasts are already free!!! My point being, classic LAUSD pouring energy in the wrong place.
Yes books can break - broken backs, damaged covers, loose pages, torn pages, defaced pages. How do you wear out ebooks? Granted the iPad can be damaged but each student only has one item to be responsible for now instead of a book bag full of expensive books.
Speaking of book bags, they would no longer be needed and could be banned, alleviating some security concerns.
Your other concern seem very valid, but have no bearing on the issue of ipads and textbooks. Just because schools systems have made idiotic choices in the past doesn't mean every idea they have is bad. Even a blind hog can occasionally find an acorn.
I found it interesting that they had to go with Pearson for eBook distribution and publishing.
Apple's iBooks has turned out to be a bit of a failure in K-12. The DRM is simply too strict...a book's DRM is limited to 10 devices, requiring separate Apple IDs. Districts don't want to give every kid an Apple ID - and per Apple's EULA children under 13 are not even allowed to sign up for an Apple ID.
It's a shame too, because Apple's iBooks are (currently) far more interactive than competing publisher's books.
Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication
Yes books can break - broken backs, damaged covers, loose pages, torn pages, defaced pages. How do you wear out ebooks? Granted the iPad can be damaged but each student only has one item to be responsible for now instead of a book bag full of expensive books.
Speaking of book bags, they would no longer be needed and could be banned, alleviating some security concerns.
Your other concern seem very valid, but have no bearing on the issue of ipads and textbooks. Just because schools systems have made idiotic choices in the past doesn't mean every idea they have is bad. Even a blind hog can occasionally find an acorn.
To each his own, I guess...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechapreneur
What a fantastic waste of money by CA schools. Demonstrating that our educational administrators are completely out of touch with kids and reality. Have they ever been around kids? Have they seen the way kids treat their textbooks? Scratched, banged up, etc. they take a beating that no iPad could survive and keep on teaching. The replacement costs for broken iPads is going to be 50%. Not to mention the distractions from all the mobile games!
Our experience in the past year doesn't match your assumptions. It's a small elementary school, iPads now in grades 5-8:
1 - at the end of the year there was 1 broken iPad (a student dropped an iPad that landed corner-first on another iPad.
1a - Eyeballz work very well to protect iPads. The sole issue is that they have to be taken off when charging the iPad in
the 10-unit charging station.
2 - except for the cracked screen of one, they all appeared like new after the final day of school.
3 - game use has been controlled by managing application through Apple Configurator.
4 - browser based games have been a minor issue so far, and managed by the teacher in the classroom.
5 - students graduating from 8th grade have the option to buy "their" iPad at reduced cost at the end of the year. They pay attention.
Paper book and tablets aren't handled the same way by the students, in our experience.