In using what happened previously when Jobs left Apple to predict what will happen this time, he either demonstrates very poor critical thinking skills or he has an agenda. It simply doesn't follow, and, more specifically, Jobs was ousted the first time because Sculley didn't like his vision for Apple whereas this time the his vision continues to drive the company. Not a good comparison at all.
Could Larry be the one behind the recent rumors that Apple's board is unhappy with Cook? Hmm...
The first iteration of the "Jobless Apple", the one with Sculley at the helm, was a very different company than the current "Jobless Apple". First of all, most of Apple's currently functional culture developed since Jobs' return in the late 90s. Having Ive at the design helm is another major difference.
Apple is so not the same company as the one previous. Jobs and Apple both matured, grew, developed and more clearly defined what Apple is.
It is no longer the Apple Computer that Jobs left. It is instead the Apple, Inc. that Jobs left, stronger than he left it.
Ellison is welcome to his opinion. But his reasons for that opinion is completely misguided. Apple without Jobs is not stronger (yet), but it isn't really noticeably weaker.
That's Jobs' real legacy at work. That the culture he created lives on strong as ever.
Everything in life and the universe changes and we mere mortals die, yet life and companies go on and often for the better. Like George Carlin used to joke, "everyone loves you more when you are dead". If Steve were alive today, he would be the media whipping boy the same as he was when he was alive, so let's stop all the dead idol worshiping, it serves no useful purpose. When Walt Disney, Henry Ford, Howard Hughes, etc all died, everyone said their businesses were done. Not true. In fact, these firms do better after the founder has passed on and many more talented people take the place of the solitary visionary. I too liked Steve, but he is gone, but he has left his inspiration behind for others to emulate.
Just because Jobs is no longer with us, he did instill spirit and character. People who worked closely with him know he would operate. Not that Jobs wanted that but, the DNA has been embedded into the longevity of the company.
So true, Feynman. However, Steve was not infallible and he listened and often, after rejecting an idea, would come back to it with a better understanding. He was a thinker, an outside the box thinker. I hope and believe that Steve Jobs' greatest accomplishment will be an Apple that continues well into the future for the the path he lead others to travel did not end with him.
He wasn't like many heads who have a wish, whether they recognise their folly or not, but a death wish that the company they created cannot prosper without their leadership. Steve was not such a man. Rough he may have been at times in business and at work, but that is the nature of action in the beast called Commerce. But what he believed in his heart he set his mind to make the best, and that kind of mind drives one to perpetuate the legacy after one has 'shuffled off this mortal coil'. But in this case it is not his own death that would utmost worry his thoughts but the death of the company he had borne and bled over. Such a man was Steve that he strove to make certain his phoenix would rise from his ashes and from lessons shared with the thinkers he collected round him, the company would rise younger and stronger than before.
Larry Ellison is a common man of many talents and though his thinking may be admirable, it is yet common for his kind. He certainly is not a Steve Jobs and fails to see the future of this great company as Steve did and who assuredly worked to secure its future in the minds and skills of those who saw, shared, understood and have come to love his dream.
I had to do and paste spellcheck from outside AI so apologies if the font size explodes in size again.
Well, Jobs' second run with Apple was certainly fantastic, but his first run was a mixed bag, leading to his firing (can anyone imagine Jobs being fired the second time around?).
And NeXT didn't exactly set the world on fire, either. Before it found a small niche for itself, it burned through a lot of cash, employees and grand promises.
I believe Apple can thrive without Jobs, but it does feel like it's getting slower at turning around new products, and trying new things. Maybe the management team, sans Jobs, just needs time to adjust. Maybe it needs new leadership beyond Cook. I think it's too early to tell...
NeXT did set the world on fire. Where shall we start?
e.g. with the fact that all Mac and iOS devices are running NeXTstep and NeXT APIs and are programmed with NeXT tools (sure iterative improvements, sometimes good things nuked, etc.)
e.g. java being a direct result of the OO frenzy and panic all the other companies had after they saw what NeXT can do (while bad mouthing NeXT at the same time and still getting it wrong be betting on junk like C++)?
e.g. the Win95/windows classic UI visuals (but not the intuitive feel) directly lifted from NeXTstep?
e.g. the WWW being invented on a NeXT with TBL explicitly stating that w/o NeXTstep he would never have attempted that project because with regular tools it would have been too complex for his taste?
e.g. DSP capabilities standard on board? Today all mainstream CPUs have DSP/vector processing instruction set extensions.
etc. etc.
A device or software platform doesn't have to be a money maker to be disruptive.
NeXT failed due to the user-software chicken-egg problem, thus didn't have enough critical mass.
The same stuff, half castrated and less consistent with the same guy at the helm is a runaway success today simply because people were naive enough to fall for the Mac OS moniker when in fact what they are getting is NeXTstep with various levels of legacy Mac compatibility.
What people think of as Apple's modern software for the most part is 25 yo software somewhat updated and optimized for better hardware, and that NeXT stuff was based on concepts more than 10 years old before NeXT picked them up.
So really, what Apple does is deliver the ideas and concepts from about 35-40 years ago, made consumer friendly by modern hardware.
Difficult to make statements about a history one doesn't know...
ellison says that about steve and apple because his own ego believes that oracle would be lost without him. i think it's called projection. arrogant bastard.
Larry Ellison is going to get his butt kicked by Team New Zealand in the America's Cup.
There will be times when Team New Zealand will be riding high and Team Oracle will be in a trough... awww who I am kidding, there will always be times when Team New Zealand will be riding high and Team Oracle will be in a trough. :-)
Its just not that simple. The first time Steve Jobs left apple, he was forced out of a company that didn't agree with his vision. this time he left a company that completely valued his vision and his ideas. This company, unlike before, wants to continue his legacy and continue to grow what Steve started. For that and many other reasons i don't think its that simple to just say that apple will fell without Steve Jobs. He inspired a lot of people at that company and that alone should give people hope.
We saw Apple toss out Steve Jobs and go down the crapper. We are now seeing Steve Jobs create an infrastructure of culture reflecting his ideals for Apple that took 13 years to build before he passed on.
The talent at Apple from vision to raw technical merit dwarfs anything Larry ever experienced at Oracle or prior to Oracle working for a company developing film for NASA. The culture permanent.
Comments
Apple is so not the same company as the one previous. Jobs and Apple both matured, grew, developed and more clearly defined what Apple is.
It is no longer the Apple Computer that Jobs left. It is instead the Apple, Inc. that Jobs left, stronger than he left it.
Ellison is welcome to his opinion. But his reasons for that opinion is completely misguided. Apple without Jobs is not stronger (yet), but it isn't really noticeably weaker.
That's Jobs' real legacy at work. That the culture he created lives on strong as ever.
Just my own opinion, but, there it is...
I think Larry must have been out back toot'n it up with the analysts when he gave this err, opinion.
Everything in life and the universe changes and we mere mortals die, yet life and companies go on and often for the better. Like George Carlin used to joke, "everyone loves you more when you are dead". If Steve were alive today, he would be the media whipping boy the same as he was when he was alive, so let's stop all the dead idol worshiping, it serves no useful purpose. When Walt Disney, Henry Ford, Howard Hughes, etc all died, everyone said their businesses were done. Not true. In fact, these firms do better after the founder has passed on and many more talented people take the place of the solitary visionary. I too liked Steve, but he is gone, but he has left his inspiration behind for others to emulate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman
Just because Jobs is no longer with us, he did instill spirit and character. People who worked closely with him know he would operate. Not that Jobs wanted that but, the DNA has been embedded into the longevity of the company.
So true, Feynman. However, Steve was not infallible and he listened and often, after rejecting an idea, would come back to it with a better understanding. He was a thinker, an outside the box thinker. I hope and believe that Steve Jobs' greatest accomplishment will be an Apple that continues well into the future for the the path he lead others to travel did not end with him.
He wasn't like many heads who have a wish, whether they recognise their folly or not, but a death wish that the company they created cannot prosper without their leadership. Steve was not such a man. Rough he may have been at times in business and at work, but that is the nature of action in the beast called Commerce. But what he believed in his heart he set his mind to make the best, and that kind of mind drives one to perpetuate the legacy after one has 'shuffled off this mortal coil'. But in this case it is not his own death that would utmost worry his thoughts but the death of the company he had borne and bled over. Such a man was Steve that he strove to make certain his phoenix would rise from his ashes and from lessons shared with the thinkers he collected round him, the company would rise younger and stronger than before.
Larry Ellison is a common man of many talents and though his thinking may be admirable, it is yet common for his kind. He certainly is not a Steve Jobs and fails to see the future of this great company as Steve did and who assuredly worked to secure its future in the minds and skills of those who saw, shared, understood and have come to love his dream.
I had to do and paste spellcheck from outside AI so apologies if the font size explodes in size again.
It's official, Apple is doomed.
e.g. with the fact that all Mac and iOS devices are running NeXTstep and NeXT APIs and are programmed with NeXT tools (sure iterative improvements, sometimes good things nuked, etc.)
e.g. java being a direct result of the OO frenzy and panic all the other companies had after they saw what NeXT can do (while bad mouthing NeXT at the same time and still getting it wrong be betting on junk like C++)?
e.g. the Win95/windows classic UI visuals (but not the intuitive feel) directly lifted from NeXTstep?
e.g. the WWW being invented on a NeXT with TBL explicitly stating that w/o NeXTstep he would never have attempted that project because with regular tools it would have been too complex for his taste?
e.g. DSP capabilities standard on board? Today all mainstream CPUs have DSP/vector processing instruction set extensions.
etc. etc.
A device or software platform doesn't have to be a money maker to be disruptive.
NeXT failed due to the user-software chicken-egg problem, thus didn't have enough critical mass.
The same stuff, half castrated and less consistent with the same guy at the helm is a runaway success today simply because people were naive enough to fall for the Mac OS moniker when in fact what they are getting is NeXTstep with various levels of legacy Mac compatibility.
What people think of as Apple's modern software for the most part is 25 yo software somewhat updated and optimized for better hardware, and that NeXT stuff was based on concepts more than 10 years old before NeXT picked them up.
So really, what Apple does is deliver the ideas and concepts from about 35-40 years ago, made consumer friendly by modern hardware.
Difficult to make statements about a history one doesn't know...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Once again, I'm post number 31. WTF???
Is that bad?
The 20th Anniversary Mac & G4 Cube after he came back...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Once again, I'm post number 31. WTF???
Blame it on IGZO
I know Larry and Steve were friends but does he now know more than we all can see? If not, he has nothing to base his opinion on.
I'd really like to get mdriftmeyer's take on Larry's comment...
There will be times when Team New Zealand will be riding high and Team Oracle will be in a trough... awww who I am kidding, there will always be times when Team New Zealand will be riding high and Team Oracle will be in a trough. :-)
In contrast, Oracle could only get better with Ellison gone. Their product quality is absolutely terrible.
The talent at Apple from vision to raw technical merit dwarfs anything Larry ever experienced at Oracle or prior to Oracle working for a company developing film for NASA. The culture permanent.
Steve made sure of it.