Larry Ellison sees dismal future for Apple without Steve Jobs

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  • Reply 61 of 194
    robmrobm Posts: 1,068member
    IGZO will solve everything. I said EVERYTHING.

    :D:D
  • Reply 62 of 194
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    tbell wrote: »

    True, but the first thing that changed after Jobs dies, was Apple catering to Wall Street. Jobs was opposed to a dividend. Wall Street started crying, and Apple caved. Jobs could have care less about Wall Street. 

    Further, Jobs handled the media much better. Jobs would not have rushed out an apology after the maps release. With that said, Apple has done some things better since Jobs left. 

    Jobs may have been wrong about the dividend issue. It's a tiny speck of money so it's not hurting Apple and if it shuts up Wall Street a bit that's not a bad thing

    Also he did have antenna gate.
  • Reply 63 of 194


    Larry Ellison and Oracle are far more like ambulance chasing lawyers than innovative thinkers.  Oracle is one of the scummiest companies on the planet.  The world would be a better place without Oracle.  It sickens me that Marc Benioff of Salesforce partnered with those worthless scum weasels.  Rot in hell Oracle.

  • Reply 64 of 194

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post



    Seriously, why do these people think they can see the future so clearly. Somebody could come along that has the skills that Steve Job had. I can't believe he was that unique as a human. I know its just one man's opinion, but Ellison really is being rather arrogant to pointedly say the company will fail without Steve Jobs. The future is just too uncertain to be saying things like that. Apple may not be the same type of company it was under Steve Jobs but that doesn't necessarily make it bad. Maybe not as great, but certainly not bad.


    Somebody could come along that has the same skills as Steve Jobs had....but it's highly unlikely. There are only a few people in any given century that stand out from the crowd. 50+ years from now and beyond, Steve Jobs will be known as the Edison/Ford/Picaso (all wrapped up in one) of our time.


     


    It's the "all wrapped up in one" thing that made him so outstanding.....and, yes, that unique.


     


     


    This doesn't mean Apple is doomed® without Steve Jobs.

  • Reply 65 of 194
    Is this guy for real? Beside being one of the best (if not THEE BEST) computer, tablet, cell phone and mp3 (player) makers in the world, Apple still stands as the bench mark standard for others to try to catch up too. Everything evaluated is always compared to how it stacks up to an Apple product.

    Well now Tim Cook is at the helm, and speaking as one of the regular consumer-guys, this year I will be purchasing a new iPhone 5s and probably a MacBookPro Retina.

    Apple products cost more, but you really getting a no compromise best of the best type of a product. You also get to talk to REAL PEOPLE if you insure a tech problem. As long as this business model does not change I'll never jump ship. I got very spoiled being a pampered customer.
  • Reply 66 of 194
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    tbell wrote: »

    Apple was not far ahead in the design process of the iMac when Jobs returned. What happened when Jobs came back is he called a meeting with department heads and asked them to present to him what they were working on and to  justify the departments various projects. He wanted to clean house. Ive brought various projects along to the meeting, amongst them a rough concept which the iMac eventually sprung out of. Apple was not developing the original iMac before Jobs. Ive, however, had been playing with ideas that after Jobs return was more fully developed into the iMac. Jobs talent was being able to focus. He called that meeting because Apple was working on a million projects, many of which were going nowhere. He wanted to kill things that were not essential to Apple's survival. 
    Yes but my understanding is the basic shape/look of the iMac already existed. Probably one of the reasons Jobs kept Ive & his team. And lets face it one of the biggest selling features of the iMac was its unique design.
  • Reply 67 of 194

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


     


    We at NeXT were very pissed off at Isaacson's Biography of Steve. He dicked over NeXT and PIXAR as if they were brief interludes. Without NeXT Apple is history.



     


    Isn't it better covered in Alan Deutschman's biography, The Second Coming of Steve Jobs? That book focuses almost exclusively on the "wilderness years."

  • Reply 68 of 194

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    This book should be interesting (comes out in November).



    159184617X.jpg


     


    Et tu, Kahney?

  • Reply 69 of 194

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


     


    We at NeXT were very pissed off at Isaacson's Biography of Steve. He dicked over NeXT and PIXAR as if they were brief interludes. Without NeXT Apple is history.



    NeXT deserves the credit they are due.  They are like the Garfunkel of Steve Job's History, or perhaps the Ringo Starr in his Star.

  • Reply 70 of 194

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post


    Somebody could come along that has the same skills as Steve Jobs had....but it's highly unlikely. There are only a few people in any given century that stand out from the crowd. 50+ years from now and beyond, Steve Jobs will be known as the Edison/Ford/Picaso (all wrapped up in one) of our time.



     


    What happened to all of you people who were talking about the someday triumphant return of Scott Forstall? Just wait: in ten years he'll come back to save the iPhone with skeuomorphisms and a retraction of Tim Cook's Maps apology. /s

  • Reply 71 of 194

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Curtis Hannah View Post



    I wonder what apple does without Steve jobs there?


     


    They just sit in a circle, holding hands, and cry, "now what'll we do???" /s

  • Reply 72 of 194
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,382member
    Yup, because the situation now is EXACTLY the same as when Steve got ousted from Apple, right? EXACTLY.

    What a moronic comment. The executives at Apple now are the ones who have worked on all of Apple's massive successes of the last 10 years. They understand the soul of what Apple is. There is absolutely nothing in common with what Apple is today with what it was when SJ got kicked out. We've seen that Apple can executive after SJ, they've had a string of massive successes after his death. Ellison pretends he cares about Apple and loved SJ, but all he's doing right now is shitting on his and his company, as he knows that his words will harm Apple because of his high profile, and will be repeated ad nauseum. As for Ellison himself, I've always seen him as a massive self-serving narcissist who loves to listen himself spout horseshit.
  • Reply 73 of 194

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post



    Yup, because the situation now is EXACTLY the same as when Steve got ousted from Apple, right? EXACTLY.



    What a moronic comment. The executives at Apple now are the ones who have worked on all of Apple's massive successes of the last 10 years. They understand the soul of what Apple is. There is absolutely nothing in common with what Apple is today with what it was when SJ got kicked out. We've seen that Apple can executive after SJ, they've had a string of massive successes after his death. Ellison pretends he cares about Apple and loved SJ, but all he's doing right now is shitting on his and his company, as he knows that his words will harm Apple because of his high profile, and will be repeated ad nauseum. As for Ellison himself, I've always seen him as a massive self-serving narcissist who loves to listen himself spout horseshit.


    Well said.

  • Reply 74 of 194
    boriscleto wrote: »
    Apple with Steve Jobs produced the Apple III, the Lisa, & the 128k Mac the first time around...

    The 20th Anniversary Mac & G4 Cube after he came back...
    Yeah, a good memory can be a real bitch. Thanks for the needed reminder.
  • Reply 75 of 194
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


     


    Et tu, Kahney?



    :lol:  I'm interested in the book because Kahney says he got current and former employees to talk, and some of their recollections are different than what Apple PR and the wider media portrayed.

  • Reply 76 of 194
    All the stuff about DNA being embedded, etc., is speculative. Apple is not the only company to have a well laid out succession plan, which is not guaranteed to work out. Anyone who insists that Ellison is wrong ignores a few important facts:

    1. Nothing stands still. Everything either gets better or worse, or different. This is a different Apple. Better or worse? Remains to be seen.

    2. Ellison knew Jobs very well, and he knows Apple as he was once its director. Sure, it has been over 10 years. But he also has more experience than everyone here in judging talent and companies.

    3. Name all the companies that churns out industry-defining products under the leadership of an operations man. Not saying they don't exist. But they are rare.

    4. Jobs is not the only leader who has left or will soon leave. Serlet, Mansfield, Forstall, Johnson are amongst the most notable names who have left either just before or after Jobs' passing, or will soon be leaving.

    This is not to say Cook won't make Apple better (it definitely won't stay the same). But how can anyone dismiss the possibility that it could just as easily slide? If nothing else, no company stays on top forever. One thing is sure - Apple is not the same and will never be the same.

    One final thought - it's plain wrong to say that Apple has got much superior engineering talent than other silicon valley companies. There are many, many engineers who have worked at two or more of Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Cisco, etc. Jobs' greatest invention is Apple, particularly in how he coaxed the best work out of the same engineers who also did impressive work elsewhere, but without achieving the same outcome. The MTBF of this invention remains to be seen.
  • Reply 77 of 194


    From the video preview of this interview, it was not clear if Ellison definitely predicted Doom for Apple without Steve! Ellison body language etc left enough of a doubt to suggest that Apple will fail without Steve, but it was not a definitive statement! 


     


    I see such Interviews as a Coy, Cheap PR Stunt to draw attention, to make oneself more important, and, in that sense, Ellison succeeded! 


     


    Also, there is Apples and Oranges element to his statement …  And here is what I mean by that:




    When Steve was pushed out, it was a result of internal power struggles at Apple! To compare that FIRING to DEATH of a person is silly, at best! It's not like Steve Jobs chose to die on purpose to teach Apple a lesson! And now Ellison seems to be implying that Apple should have listened to Steve! Or maybe Ellison is implying that he should have been asked to become Apple's CEO? 



    But then, how can Ellison have it both ways - saying that Steve Knew Best, and at the same time, Steve Jobs did NOT suggest Larry Ellison, but did specifically  ask for Tim Cook to be named Apple's CEO! 


     


    I hope someone posts a Link to the Full Version of this Interview Online!


     


    I do believe that plenty of Steve Thinking, Vibe, Ideas, Methodology, Spirit, etc did rub off on those who worked with him, and particularly on those who worked with him closest! To look to any One Person, like Johnny Ives, or Tim Cook, or somebody whom we haven't heard about YET, from within Apple, or elsewhere - and proclaim that One Person to be The Next Steve Job, The Savior of Apple - that's just too naive! But that is exactly that kind of stuff that attracts attention, and keeps the analysts and websites in the news, and thus surviving!  


     


    Charlie Rose is one of the better people in media, but even he needs some controversy to attract viewers! 


     


    Also, even if Steve was alive, he could not guarantee Total Success for all his products! Not all of his products were Mega Hits!


     


    Hopefully, with The Next Big Hit from Apple, the pundits will give Apple a break for a while… Then others will try to clone that Big Hit as much as they can, with Patent Infringements, proven or not, and the Media will sing the same old song:


     


    Apple Is Falling Behind On Innovation, It's Been Too Long since the last hit!!! They will probably invoke Steve Jobs' name again, cause it's an easy PR trick… 


     


    The Crystal Ball Olympics never end… Analysts, Pundits etc all have their Crystal Balls, like everyone else! The loudest among them get the most attention! 



     

  • Reply 78 of 194
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,385member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post



    All the stuff about DNA being embedded, etc., is speculative. Apple is not the only company to have a well laid out succession plan, which is not guaranteed to work out. Anyone who insists that Ellison is wrong ignores a few important facts:



    1. Nothing stands still. Everything either gets better or worse, or different. This is a different Apple. Better or worse? Remains to be seen.



    2. Ellison knew Jobs very well, and he knows Apple as he was once its director. Sure, it has been over 10 years. But he also has more experience than everyone here in judging talent and companies.



    3. Name all the companies that churns out industry-defining products under the leadership of an operations man. Not saying they don't exist. But they are rare.



    4. Jobs is not the only leader who has left or will soon leave. Serlet, Mansfield, Forstall, Johnson are amongst the most notable names who have left either just before or after Jobs' passing, or will soon be leaving.



    This is not to say Cook won't make Apple better (it definitely won't stay the same). But how can anyone dismiss the possibility that it could just as easily slide? If nothing else, no company stays on top forever. One thing is sure - Apple is not the same and will never be the same.



    One final thought - it's plain wrong to say that Apple has got much superior engineering talent than other silicon valley companies. There are many, many engineers who have worked at two or more of Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Cisco, etc. Jobs' greatest invention is Apple, particularly in how he coaxed the best work out of the same engineers who also did impressive work elsewhere, but without achieving the same outcome. The MTBF of this invention remains to be seen.


    They think that the VISIONARY aspects of Jobs is supposed to be passed down to Cook because he's the new CEO.  The thing is Cook has been running the day to day operations for years and who takes over the VISIONARY role?  From my perspective, it's been passed down to Jony Ive and the rest of the engineers.  Obviously, Jony is typically very shy at keynotes, he shows up, but for some reason he doesn't seem to give presentations, that's left up to now Craig, Phil, Eddy and maybe a few others, depending on what is being announced.


     


    Jobs wasn't the ONLY person with all of the ideas, nor were all of his ideas the best route.  It takes a LOT of other people that for the most part are still there and they are a little clearer on the direction of Apple and I think they are in good hands for the most part. I think Apple's biggest problems is with their suppliers than it is internal.


     


    Obviously, most of focus is and has been on mobile devices (laptops included), that's where most of the money is going in terms of development.  The traditional PC concept is still hanging around for some reason, but it's getting less focus since MOST people don't see the need in a traditional tower/desktop computer as much as they used to.

  • Reply 79 of 194
    murmanmurman Posts: 159member


    Well its up to Apple to prove him wrong isn't it, we can huff and puff, but wtf's the use?

  • Reply 80 of 194
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,385member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by murman View Post


    Well its up to Apple to prove him wrong isn't it, we can huff and puff, but wtf's the use?



    I know what you mean. Proof is in what they do from now on.  

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