That's an extremely poor interpretation of the post in which you were initially responding to in that it adds a level juvenility where there wasn't one. Methinks I'm getting trolled.
If you noticed the video it showed Google was already starting the search before the voice request was finished just like they do when you start typing a request. Siri waits until she is sure you are done speaking and then repeats back what you said before launching into a search.
Google voice search on iOS enjoys the advantage of having to only search the web. Siri has to decide what function to perform first.
Which is why if you just want fast, pure search results and not some on device integration you should preface your requests as "Siri, search Google for the...". That would help speed it it up a little but still way short of Google speed. Plus in the example 2 pints to a quart, Google actually finds it fast and speaks it with large fonts as a confirmation. Siri just says here's what I found in tiny fonts.
The original complaint was the usage of the phrase "orders of magnitude" so thanks for confirming that the difference is indeed a factor of ten.
Those numbers aren't from any tests, I was just stating that 0.1 vs 1 doesn't make a big difference in the context of an audio search. I picked the numbers based on the statement saying orders of magnitude. But thanks for confirming that you have no confirmation to back that statement up other than my example numbers that were based on your statement.
If you noticed the video it showed Google was already starting the search before the voice request was finished just like they do when you start typing a request. Siri waits until she is sure you are done speaking and then repeats back what you said before launching into a search.
Yeah if they uploaded words at a time, that could be faster in getting results back depending on how they parse the sentences. There's another test here that shows the strengths and weaknesses of both:
[VIDEO]
Not that conclusive IMO. People have this habit of saying one is completely superior to the other and it's actually the Google fans that do it more often. You can see in the Youtube comments the two highest ranked comments are:
"This is painful. She has no idea how? google now works" - 38 votes
"Google? over Apple any time of the day" - 37 votes
I don't get why the Google fans always go on about Apple fandom when it's not Apple users going to the Google forums or posting on blogs and videos upranking each others' comments.
There's another test here that shows the strengths and weaknesses of both:
Wow that video is embarrassing. Google is so much better at nearly everything. She should have been using an iPhone for both as a control but holy smokes iPhone is a total dog in that comparison. The one thing that always bothered me is that Siri has no follow up context, which is demonstrated in the test. I had always heard that Siri did understand follow up questions but I could never get it to work. I guess I now know that she doesn't understand that type of conversational exchange
I suspect it's much the same reason why you, Gatorguy and DroidFTW wasted time adding your comments to the thread. Instead of criticising Apple and/or defending Google on an Apple forum, you could be making useful comments on Google forums to Google fans. Comments like: 'hey do you like Google Glass, yeah I like Google Glass it's pointless but unique and new, did you search for things using Google, yeah I love searching for things, hey did you hear that Apple is suing, they suck 'cos everybody should be allowed to just take things from other people, no way they stole the notification panel, no way they stole some UI theme that looks nothing like it, that's not ok they can't steal, only we can steal except we don't steal anything - everything that Google has done was obvious, hey did you steal some apps today, yeah me and 50000 others'.
is it just me, or has a little bit of TS rubbed off on Marvin?
<div class="quote-container" style="margin-top:5px;margin-right:20px;margin-bottom:5px;margin-left:20px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;">There's another test here that shows the strengths and weaknesses of both:</div>
</div>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;">Wow that video is embarrassing. Google is so much better at nearly everything. She should have been using an iPhone for both as a control but holy smokes iPhone is a total dog in that comparison. The one thing that always bothered me is that Siri has no follow up context, which is demonstrated in the test. I had always heard that Siri did understand follow up questions but I could never get it to work. I guess I now know that she doesn't understand that type of conversational exchange</p>
@mstone I am surprised at your response -- you are usually fair and reasoned, but you appear to have made up your mind in advance;
I agree that the Google tests should have been on an iPhone
To address what you found embarrassing about Siri:
You can ask Siri the conversational questions: "How tall is Barak Obama?" and "Where was he born?" and get the correct answers (including the map).
At the moment, I only have iOS 7 devices available, but I am sure that iOS 6 Siri had some conversational capability -- though, maybe not that particular combination. Maybe you are having problems with "conversations" in Siri because you use the home button -- that starts a new conversation. For follow-up questions, tap the microphone icon. I asked "how old is he" as a second follow-up and it worked fine.
With the "Schedule appointment command, Siri took an extra step because there were 3 records for the contact, Google scheduled the meeting but didn't include (or ask for the contact). Apparently the demonstrator didn't know that Siri will select a contact in the list by voice command. Here's what Siri does when she finds only 1 contact (you can "confirm" or "cancel" by voice, too):
And, pictures of the Eiffel Tower:
It appears as if Google has better speed (probably better searches, too) and some function advantages over Siri in some areas. In other situations, Siri appears faster or provides a more thorough/complete response or action... mas o menos.
I don't have Google Now on any of my devices because it doesn't provide enough advantages to offset the privacy adSpam hits!
@mstone I am surprised at your response -- you are usually fair and reasoned, but you appear to have made up your mind in advance;
I agree that the Google tests should have been on an iPhone
To address what you found embarrassing about Siri:
You can ask Siri the conversational questions: "How tall is Barak Obama?" and "Where was he born?" and get the correct answers (including the map).
At the moment, I only have iOS 7 devices available, but I am sure that iOS 6 Siri had some conversational capability -- though, maybe not that particular combination.
With the "Schedule appointment command, Siri took an extra step because there were 3 records for the contact, Google scheduled the meeting but didn't include (or ask for the contact). Apparently the demonstrator didn't know that Siri will select a contact in the list by voice command. Here's what Siri does when she finds only 1 contact (you can "confirm" or "cancel" by voice, too):
And, pictures of the Eiffel Tower:
It appears as if Google has better speed (probably better searches, too) and some function advantages over Siri in some areas. In other situations, Siri appears faster or provides a more thorough/complete response or action... mas o menos.
I don't have Google Now on any of my devices because it doesn't provide enough advantages to offset the privacy adSpam hits
Hey, looks like you have stuff my Siri doesn't have... Could it be that Siri in the US has more features than in the rest of the world?
Would strengthen my former point about Apple Maps/Siri, I guess...
At the moment, I only have iOS 7 devices available, but I am sure that iOS 6 Siri had some conversational capability -- though, maybe not that particular combination.
Hey, looks like you have stuff my Siri doesn't have... Could it be that Siri in the US has more features than in the rest of the world?
Would strengthen my former point about Apple Maps/Siri, I guess...
Are you using iOS 7? As I mentioned, I don't have anything bit iOS 7 devices available... so your results could be different.
Are you using iOS 7? As I mentioned, I don't have anything bit iOS 7 devices available... so your results could be different.
Yes, both on iPad and iPhone (but iPhone is 4, which means no Siri).
I'm going to test switching Siri to "American English" and see if it changes anything...
Well,the test is pretty conclusive. Siri's abilities depend on the language you're using. US English gives me Wolfram Alpha answers, French gives me Wikipedia instead. Frustrating...
Are you using iOS 7? As I mentioned, I don't have anything bit iOS 7 devices available... so your results could be different.
Yes, both on iPad and iPhone (but iPhone is 4, which means no Siri).
I'm going to test switching Siri to "American English" and see if it changes anything...
Well,the test is pretty conclusive. Siri's abilities depend on the language you're using. US English gives me Wolfram Alpha answers, French gives me Wikipedia instead. Frustrating...
Mmm... That's odd.
Like you, all my Siri capable devices have been upgraded to iOS 7.
I also wonder whether it depends on your current location.
I have a mapping app that I have been playing around with in Xcode. When you debug an app on the device you can set the location in Xcode. Later, I'll check that out and see if it changes how Siri works.
Like you, all my Siri capable devices have been upgraded to iOS 7.
I also wonder whether it depends on your current location.
I have a mapping app that I have been playing around with in Xcode. When you debug an app on the device you can set the location in Xcode. Later, I'll check that out and see if it changes how Siri works.
Seems an interesting experiment.
I am wondering if it could be a UX issue (like, no integration with Pandora since Pandora is US-only, it would be very bad UX to fire up a tool that refuses to launch, obviously). Maybe Wolfram integration from French/whatever is too hard for Siri's server for now, since it means correctly getting the phonems, which Siri does fine, then getting the meaning, which Siri mostly does fine, then switching it to US english to query Wolfram, then translating the answer form US English to French/whatever?
I believe Apple would rather remove functionality than offer broken functionality...
On the subject of humorous messages, Google actually adds quirky messages to their products too. When the Youtube or Google search engine breaks (there are certain search formats that break it quite easily), it comes up with the monkey message:
I'm not a Google apologist. I just find super fast, accurate results better than slow, inaccurate results. It is not brain surgery. The original complaint was the usage of the phrase "orders of magnitude" so thanks for confirming that the difference is indeed a factor of ten.
If you noticed the video it showed Google was already starting the search before the voice request was finished just like they do when you start typing a request. Siri waits until she is sure you are done speaking and then repeats back what you said before launching into a search.
I find Apple's solution actually better on that. In many languages, the end of the sentence can massively modify the meaning.
"What ruler was exiled in Saint-helena and died there?" is Napoleon.
"What ruler was exiled in Saint-Helena and returned after seven years?" is the king of Zulu...
I find Apple's solution actually better on that. In many languages, the end of the sentence can massively modify the meaning.
"What ruler was exiled in Saint-helena and died there?" is Napoleon.
"What ruler was exiled in Saint-Helena and returned after seven years?" is the king of Zulu...
Agreed, however in your example there are three significant keywords before the final refinement. In the case of contextual search, Google has already narrowed the result set down to a few dozen possibilities before the end of the sentence is reached, where as Siri will wait until the completion of the sentence and then start searching Wolfgram, Wikipedia, Yelp and finally some search engine. The speed difference is noticeable due to serial versus parallel processing.
Agreed, however in your example there are three significant keywords before the final refinement. In the case of contextual search, Google has already narrowed the result set down to a few dozen possibilities before the end of the sentence is reached, where as Siri will wait until the completion of the sentence and then start searching Wolfgram, Wikipedia, Yelp and finally some search engine. The speed difference is noticeable due to serial versus parallel processing.
You can ask Siri the conversational questions: "How tall is Barak Obama?" and "Where was he born?" and get the correct answers (including the map).
Definitely doesn't work in iOS 6.
I tried it with Michael Jordan,
Siri got his height correct but had no clue what I was talking about when I asked where he was born. What is worse, is when I asked what team Michael Jordan played on, she gave me the soccer scores between Jordan and Oman.
I suspect it's much the same reason why you, Gatorguy and DroidFTW wasted time adding your comments to the thread. Instead of criticising Apple and/or defending Google on an Apple forum, you could be making useful comments on Google forums to Google fans.
You follow my comments fairly close Marvin, and as I've recently seen you're quite cognizant of the past comments I've made. IMO that's a good thing for a moderator by the way, makes it faster to do the job. Thus you're no doubt aware that as a rule I don't introduce Google into a discussion. I, and everyone else for that matter, do respond to invitations to comment extended by articles where Google is the subject as this one is... and there are a whole lot of'em, pretty much on a daily basis. Otherwise unless another forum member has brought up Google first, or the subject matter wasn't Google to begin with, I don't generally mention them either.
As you should know I'm certainly not anti-Apple and you'd expend a lot of time finding even a half-dozen instances in 7000+ posts where I've been overtly critical of Apple, fairly or otherwise. I didn't declare the iPad a failure, suggest the iPhone isn't innovative enough, claim Apple steals IP, deem Apple guilty of anti-trust violations before a case was even heard, suggest Apple uses unfair patent strategies to negate competition nor any other specifically "anti-Apple" theme that's ascribed to "haters".
If you consider the above to be true then the "criticising" part you seem offended by doesn't apply to me, and the "defending Google" (who I've also been known to critisize on occasion as tho there's not already plenty of it) is held generally to the numerous Google topics, or at least as replies to another member who has inserted them into the conversation.
A forum is supposed to be a venue for exchange of ideas and views on a posted subject is it not, so surely you aren't suggesting that only one point of view represents the whole truth and only one side of an issue makes a discussion.
EDIT: To be clear I'm not at all questioning motives. I replied only because I was surprised and confused by being singled out for what I consider inapplicable criticism.
You can ask Siri the conversational questions: "How tall is Barak Obama?" and "Where was he born?" and get the correct answers (including the map).
Definitely doesn't work in iOS 6.
I tried it with Michael Jordan,
Siri got his height correct but had no clue what I was talking about when I asked where he was born. What is worse, is when I asked what team Michael Jordan played on, she gave me the soccer scores between Jordan and Oman.
On the other hand Google got it right.
I tried with Magic Johnson -- it didn't get the second query right but took me to hop stop in Paris, instead. Maybe Siri doesn't like Roundball
What's really weird, is that my iPhone won't work at all right now with an AT&T/Wi-Fi connection -- but my iPad works fine with no cell.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW
That's an extremely poor interpretation of the post in which you were initially responding to in that it adds a level juvenility where there wasn't one. Methinks I'm getting trolled.
Methinks thou dost protest too much.
WAY too much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
If you noticed the video it showed Google was already starting the search before the voice request was finished just like they do when you start typing a request. Siri waits until she is sure you are done speaking and then repeats back what you said before launching into a search.
Google voice search on iOS enjoys the advantage of having to only search the web. Siri has to decide what function to perform first.
Which is why if you just want fast, pure search results and not some on device integration you should preface your requests as "Siri, search Google for the...". That would help speed it it up a little but still way short of Google speed. Plus in the example 2 pints to a quart, Google actually finds it fast and speaks it with large fonts as a confirmation. Siri just says here's what I found in tiny fonts.
Those numbers aren't from any tests, I was just stating that 0.1 vs 1 doesn't make a big difference in the context of an audio search. I picked the numbers based on the statement saying orders of magnitude. But thanks for confirming that you have no confirmation to back that statement up other than my example numbers that were based on your statement.
Yeah if they uploaded words at a time, that could be faster in getting results back depending on how they parse the sentences. There's another test here that shows the strengths and weaknesses of both:
[VIDEO]
Not that conclusive IMO. People have this habit of saying one is completely superior to the other and it's actually the Google fans that do it more often. You can see in the Youtube comments the two highest ranked comments are:
"This is painful. She has no idea how? google now works" - 38 votes
"Google? over Apple any time of the day" - 37 votes
I don't get why the Google fans always go on about Apple fandom when it's not Apple users going to the Google forums or posting on blogs and videos upranking each others' comments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
There's another test here that shows the strengths and weaknesses of both:
Wow that video is embarrassing. Google is so much better at nearly everything. She should have been using an iPhone for both as a control but holy smokes iPhone is a total dog in that comparison. The one thing that always bothered me is that Siri has no follow up context, which is demonstrated in the test. I had always heard that Siri did understand follow up questions but I could never get it to work. I guess I now know that she doesn't understand that type of conversational exchange
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
I suspect it's much the same reason why you, Gatorguy and DroidFTW wasted time adding your comments to the thread. Instead of criticising Apple and/or defending Google on an Apple forum, you could be making useful comments on Google forums to Google fans. Comments like: 'hey do you like Google Glass, yeah I like Google Glass it's pointless but unique and new, did you search for things using Google, yeah I love searching for things, hey did you hear that Apple is suing, they suck 'cos everybody should be allowed to just take things from other people, no way they stole the notification panel, no way they stole some UI theme that looks nothing like it, that's not ok they can't steal, only we can steal except we don't steal anything - everything that Google has done was obvious, hey did you steal some apps today, yeah me and 50000 others'.
is it just me, or has a little bit of TS rubbed off on Marvin?
We need more replies like this!
@mstone I am surprised at your response -- you are usually fair and reasoned, but you appear to have made up your mind in advance;
I agree that the Google tests should have been on an iPhone
To address what you found embarrassing about Siri:
You can ask Siri the conversational questions: "How tall is Barak Obama?" and "Where was he born?" and get the correct answers (including the map).
At the moment, I only have iOS 7 devices available, but I am sure that iOS 6 Siri had some conversational capability -- though, maybe not that particular combination. Maybe you are having problems with "conversations" in Siri because you use the home button -- that starts a new conversation. For follow-up questions, tap the microphone icon. I asked "how old is he" as a second follow-up and it worked fine.
With the "Schedule appointment command, Siri took an extra step because there were 3 records for the contact, Google scheduled the meeting but didn't include (or ask for the contact). Apparently the demonstrator didn't know that Siri will select a contact in the list by voice command. Here's what Siri does when she finds only 1 contact (you can "confirm" or "cancel" by voice, too):
And, pictures of the Eiffel Tower:
It appears as if Google has better speed (probably better searches, too) and some function advantages over Siri in some areas. In other situations, Siri appears faster or provides a more thorough/complete response or action... mas o menos.
I don't have Google Now on any of my devices because it doesn't provide enough advantages to offset the privacy adSpam hits!
And then, there's this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
@mstone I am surprised at your response -- you are usually fair and reasoned, but you appear to have made up your mind in advance;
I agree that the Google tests should have been on an iPhone
To address what you found embarrassing about Siri:
You can ask Siri the conversational questions: "How tall is Barak Obama?" and "Where was he born?" and get the correct answers (including the map).
At the moment, I only have iOS 7 devices available, but I am sure that iOS 6 Siri had some conversational capability -- though, maybe not that particular combination.
With the "Schedule appointment command, Siri took an extra step because there were 3 records for the contact, Google scheduled the meeting but didn't include (or ask for the contact). Apparently the demonstrator didn't know that Siri will select a contact in the list by voice command. Here's what Siri does when she finds only 1 contact (you can "confirm" or "cancel" by voice, too):
And, pictures of the Eiffel Tower:
It appears as if Google has better speed (probably better searches, too) and some function advantages over Siri in some areas. In other situations, Siri appears faster or provides a more thorough/complete response or action... mas o menos.
I don't have Google Now on any of my devices because it doesn't provide enough advantages to offset the privacy adSpam hits
Hey, looks like you have stuff my Siri doesn't have... Could it be that Siri in the US has more features than in the rest of the world?
Would strengthen my former point about Apple Maps/Siri, I guess...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
"Play "your love" by Nicky Minaj" (...)"even though I know I have this song on my phone".
Well... shame on you girl. Probably Google Now doesn't want to embarrass you on TV?
Are you using iOS 7? As I mentioned, I don't have anything bit iOS 7 devices available... so your results could be different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Are you using iOS 7? As I mentioned, I don't have anything bit iOS 7 devices available... so your results could be different.
Yes, both on iPad and iPhone (but iPhone is 4, which means no Siri).
I'm going to test switching Siri to "American English" and see if it changes anything...
Well,the test is pretty conclusive. Siri's abilities depend on the language you're using. US English gives me Wolfram Alpha answers, French gives me Wikipedia instead. Frustrating...
Mmm... That's odd.
Like you, all my Siri capable devices have been upgraded to iOS 7.
I also wonder whether it depends on your current location.
I have a mapping app that I have been playing around with in Xcode. When you debug an app on the device you can set the location in Xcode. Later, I'll check that out and see if it changes how Siri works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Mmm... That's odd.
Like you, all my Siri capable devices have been upgraded to iOS 7.
I also wonder whether it depends on your current location.
I have a mapping app that I have been playing around with in Xcode. When you debug an app on the device you can set the location in Xcode. Later, I'll check that out and see if it changes how Siri works.
Seems an interesting experiment.
I am wondering if it could be a UX issue (like, no integration with Pandora since Pandora is US-only, it would be very bad UX to fire up a tool that refuses to launch, obviously). Maybe Wolfram integration from French/whatever is too hard for Siri's server for now, since it means correctly getting the phonems, which Siri does fine, then getting the meaning, which Siri mostly does fine, then switching it to US english to query Wolfram, then translating the answer form US English to French/whatever?
I believe Apple would rather remove functionality than offer broken functionality...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
On the subject of humorous messages, Google actually adds quirky messages to their products too. When the Youtube or Google search engine breaks (there are certain search formats that break it quite easily), it comes up with the monkey message:
French accent in that video, for sure ^^'
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Not subtle enough - I still got it.
I'm not a Google apologist. I just find super fast, accurate results better than slow, inaccurate results. It is not brain surgery. The original complaint was the usage of the phrase "orders of magnitude" so thanks for confirming that the difference is indeed a factor of ten.
If you noticed the video it showed Google was already starting the search before the voice request was finished just like they do when you start typing a request. Siri waits until she is sure you are done speaking and then repeats back what you said before launching into a search.
I find Apple's solution actually better on that. In many languages, the end of the sentence can massively modify the meaning.
"What ruler was exiled in Saint-helena and died there?" is Napoleon.
"What ruler was exiled in Saint-Helena and returned after seven years?" is the king of Zulu...
Adobe's Flash player also has a "stats for nerds" menu item.
Humor's not incompatible with software. What's annoying is humor replacing features, but in Adobe's case... well whatever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight
I find Apple's solution actually better on that. In many languages, the end of the sentence can massively modify the meaning.
"What ruler was exiled in Saint-helena and died there?" is Napoleon.
"What ruler was exiled in Saint-Helena and returned after seven years?" is the king of Zulu...
Agreed, however in your example there are three significant keywords before the final refinement. In the case of contextual search, Google has already narrowed the result set down to a few dozen possibilities before the end of the sentence is reached, where as Siri will wait until the completion of the sentence and then start searching Wolfgram, Wikipedia, Yelp and finally some search engine. The speed difference is noticeable due to serial versus parallel processing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Agreed, however in your example there are three significant keywords before the final refinement. In the case of contextual search, Google has already narrowed the result set down to a few dozen possibilities before the end of the sentence is reached, where as Siri will wait until the completion of the sentence and then start searching Wolfgram, Wikipedia, Yelp and finally some search engine. The speed difference is noticeable due to serial versus parallel processing.
I see your point indeed!
Thanks for the clear explanation ^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
You can ask Siri the conversational questions: "How tall is Barak Obama?" and "Where was he born?" and get the correct answers (including the map).
Definitely doesn't work in iOS 6.
I tried it with Michael Jordan,
Siri got his height correct but had no clue what I was talking about when I asked where he was born. What is worse, is when I asked what team Michael Jordan played on, she gave me the soccer scores between Jordan and Oman.
On the other hand Google got it right.
You follow my comments fairly close Marvin, and as I've recently seen you're quite cognizant of the past comments I've made. IMO that's a good thing for a moderator by the way, makes it faster to do the job. Thus you're no doubt aware that as a rule I don't introduce Google into a discussion. I, and everyone else for that matter, do respond to invitations to comment extended by articles where Google is the subject as this one is... and there are a whole lot of'em, pretty much on a daily basis. Otherwise unless another forum member has brought up Google first, or the subject matter wasn't Google to begin with, I don't generally mention them either.
As you should know I'm certainly not anti-Apple and you'd expend a lot of time finding even a half-dozen instances in 7000+ posts where I've been overtly critical of Apple, fairly or otherwise. I didn't declare the iPad a failure, suggest the iPhone isn't innovative enough, claim Apple steals IP, deem Apple guilty of anti-trust violations before a case was even heard, suggest Apple uses unfair patent strategies to negate competition nor any other specifically "anti-Apple" theme that's ascribed to "haters".
If you consider the above to be true then the "criticising" part you seem offended by doesn't apply to me, and the "defending Google" (who I've also been known to critisize on occasion as tho there's not already plenty of it) is held generally to the numerous Google topics, or at least as replies to another member who has inserted them into the conversation.
A forum is supposed to be a venue for exchange of ideas and views on a posted subject is it not, so surely you aren't suggesting that only one point of view represents the whole truth and only one side of an issue makes a discussion.
EDIT: To be clear I'm not at all questioning motives. I replied only because I was surprised and confused by being singled out for what I consider inapplicable criticism.
I tried with Magic Johnson -- it didn't get the second query right but took me to hop stop in Paris, instead. Maybe Siri doesn't like Roundball
What's really weird, is that my iPhone won't work at all right now with an AT&T/Wi-Fi connection -- but my iPad works fine with no cell.
Time for a bug report I guess.